Graduatin' Pics!

[Queen of Serpents]

You bring up a very good point. Shows aimed at younger children should feature younger children. This culture of sex sex sex and insisting girls grow up faster than they should is disturbing. Years ago - before I had children - I remember walking around a Walmart and seeing this mary kate and ashley crap. (It was hideous, but so is everything they wear) It was in the 6x size clothing. And then, right there on the wall, were bras. "training" bras for fucking seven year olds!! What the hell?! Not okay.

My problem with most shows aimed at children, besides the over sexualization, is the attitude. These kids have this "I'm so awesome. I'm better than you" attitude. I don't want my daughter - or my son for that matter, but this shows are obviously aimed at girls - to emulate that. She gets enough attitude from her mother. :oops: There's also the violence factor. My parents had a grandparents day. They have cable at their house. My daughter was watching tv with my dad and they watched Kung Fu Panda. The next day I called my dad and told him they couldn't watch that anymore because she just tried to kung fu kick her brother in the stomach. That was the end of that show. It's amazing how they remember things! The other day she was asking for a "dream light". I thought she meant a night light and I was impressed at her creativity. Then I was at my parents house and a commercial for dream lites came on. She had asked me days after being at their house for this dream lite thing.

But yes, there is a problem with over sexualization of children. My parents watch a 7yo and I'm appalled at the things she watches, shows like Winx Club. It looks like anime porn. The "fairies" wear next to nothing and when they transform from human to fairie, they're completely naked with just a little sparkle cloud over their breasts and genitals that slowly goes away as some skimpy outfit appears. That's not something I want my daughter seeing. And that's not something a 7 year old should be seeing. If a woman wants to dress like that, that's her business. But not a child.

Nerd moment, Winx is an Italian show and the audience is more 6-14, so maybe part of the nudity is cultural. The creator has claimed it was inspired by Sailor Moon, which I never saw when I grew up but I'm aching for girly things later.

But I agree, the sexualization isn't right. I just wish there were better time slots for animated shows for teens. I used to laugh at the naughtiness of "Total Drama Island" and nightmare fuel of "The Adventures of Flapjack" on Cartoon Network, but they should've had a later time slot so my youngest brother wouldn't be allowed to watch it. There are so many shows on Cartoon Network that almost meet the late night "Adult Swim" line up that they should remane and reschedule their timeslots. However, sex and violence sell, and parents may not be aware of what's in the shows and would assume it's for kids because "it's animated!"

Similar thing with Warner Bros direct-to-video animated films, "Under the Red Hood" and "Batman: Gotham Knight." These are gritty and and dark films, and are aimed at a teenage/adult audience, but a parent may casually look at the title and think "Oh, my kids loves Batman, I'll get this." It's not Warner Bros fault, nor the parents, just the ratings have to be clearly labeled and people need to be more aware of what children are watching.

[valsa]

Nerd moment, Winx is an Italian show and the audience is more 6-14, so maybe part of the nudity is cultural. The creator has claimed it was inspired by Sailor Moon, which I never saw when I grew up but I'm aching for girly things later.

I did watch Sailor Moon growing up and, though I've never watched Winx Club, the description of the transformation sequence automatically put me in mind of SM. And while I think that sexualization of young girls in a problem, I don't think nudity always equals sexualization. Like I said, I've never seen Winx Club so I don't know how I'd feel about them transforming but if it's anything like Sailor Moon, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

But I agree, the sexualization isn't right. I just wish there were better time slots for animated shows for teens. I used to laugh at the naughtiness of "Total Drama Island" and nightmare fuel of "The Adventures of Flapjack" on Cartoon Network, but they should've had a later time slot so my youngest brother wouldn't be allowed to watch it. There are so many shows on Cartoon Network that almost meet the late night "Adult Swim" line up that they should remane and reschedule their timeslots. However, sex and violence sell, and parents may not be aware of what's in the shows and would assume it's for kids because "it's animated!"

Similar thing with Warner Bros direct-to-video animated films, "Under the Red Hood" and "Batman: Gotham Knight." These are gritty and and dark films, and are aimed at a teenage/adult audience, but a parent may casually look at the title and think "Oh, my kids loves Batman, I'll get this." It's not Warner Bros fault, nor the parents, just the ratings have to be clearly labeled and people need to be more aware of what children are watching.

I gotta disagree with this part. Parents should know what their kids are watching, especially if they're the ones buying it. If they don't, they have no one but themselves to blame.

[Justme]

I was maybe 10 feet from John Goodman. He'd finished filming a movie in my area. It was at the airport. We were going through security. The airport was very busy a lines were long. He just waited his turn like everyone else. Perple were whispering "there is JG", and no one bothered him. He cleared security and went on his way. He looks older in person.

[mama_bear]

While there are many things I do not like about the Disney shows and the time slots, etc. that people have mentioned-I do think those shows are intended for an audience that should have their own material. I'm not explaining myself very well but what I'm thinking is that my 13 YO is no longer going to relate to shows directed at the younger kids (Wiggles, Dora, etc.) are for preschoolers. When I was her age I watched shows with my parents-I recall seeing the last episode of MASH and many before it, at some point I was a Beverly Hills 90210 fan, I remember watching American Bandstand while rolling papers. Now I've looked back at some of those shows and am stunned that I was allowed to watch. I'm not sure what you do for that age group that manages to not be completely direspectful of parents, inappropriately dressed, etc. but also doesn't come across as unrealistic as Full House.

[Visionoyahweh]

Roseanne actually showed fat people on television, who were normal and happy. This so traumatized the TV networks that fat people haven't been shown again. Well until Mike&Molly, but I haven't seen it so I can't comment, and that took 20 years.

I loved the episode when the Conner's power went out due to non-payment. "Well, middle class was fun!"

[lilwriter85]

I never really watched Full House but I did catch part of an episode about a year ago. It was when Uncle Jesse's wife (can't remember her name) came home from the hospital after having twins and she just waltzed in the house with her cowboy boots on and a cute skirt/makeup and hair done and I thought to myself huh??? I don't know about you but I could barely walk around after giving birth to one kid let alone two. Too cheesy and unrealistic. Couldn't relate at all.

When I was a little kid I really liked Full House. When I was a teenager in the early 00s, WGN and a couple of cable channels started showing reruns and when I watched the show as a teen, I realized how cheesy and unrealistic it was. But there are still some Full House episodes that I like. Looking back at the sitcoms that ABC produced during the 80s and 90s, Full House and Family Matters were the worst ones. I thought Boy Meets World was a bit cheesy, but it never got as bad as Full House or Family Matters.

[icecreamycakeycake]

Speaking of theme songs....

[BelieveinScience]

When I was a little kid I really liked Full House. When I was a teenager in the early 00s, WGN and a couple of cable channels started showing reruns and when I watched the show as a teen, I realized how cheesy and unrealistic it was. But there are still some Full House episodes that I like. Looking back at the sitcoms that ABC produced during the 80s and 90s, Full House and Family Matters were the worst ones. I thought Boy Meets World was a bit cheesy, but it never got as bad as Full House or Family Matters.

I still love boy meets world. It comes up at 7am (my time) on abc family. It is cheesy but it makes me laugh at the same time. I never found full house funny but boy meets world? yes funny!

[bananacat]

The fundies aren't wrong about EVERYTHING. The oversexualization of female children in our mass culture is one area where they have very legitimate concerns. However, they draw the line in a different place compared to most of the rest of us. I don't like the way the teens on the Disney Channel dress and I don't want my 10-year-old niece to emulate them. The fundies would likely agree if they watched a few minutes of some of those shows. The difference is, they'd want the Disney girls to put on a frumper or a modest modern denim skirt while I'd be happy enough if they just changed into some jeans that weren't so tight and a regular T-shirt instead of a teeny weeny tank top. And why do all the female characters on those shows have to be teenagers? Shouldn't elementary aged kids be watching shows that feature characters their own age? Why the big push for little girls in the 3rd and 4th grades to grow up so fast?

No. Just no. It's the fundies that are oversexualizing female children. A child in the shortest skirt imaginable is not sexual. Period. A child without a shirt is not sexual. A child with her midriff or knees showing is not sexual. Forcing modesty onto someone who has no secondary sexual characteristics is what sexualizes them.

[FaeT]

No. Just no. It's the fundies that are oversexualizing female children. A child in the shortest skirt imaginable is not sexual. Period. A child without a shirt is not sexual. A child with her midriff or knees showing is not sexual. Forcing modesty onto someone who has no secondary sexual characteristics is what sexualizes them.

I don't think that's what she means here. It's the attitudes and accessories. This winx club thing (which I did recently discover is an italian show, but it's been on nick for a while) shows girls who have adult bodies but child like faces. And they strike very sexual poses. Seriously. They looks like strippers. Shows aimed at kids are showing poor attitudes, a lack of respect for anyone, way too much make up. I agree that forcing a child into modest clothes to prevent sexualizing them does in fact sexualize them, but dressing up a six year old to look like a whore - complete with more make up than I've ever worn in my life and more hair spray that I will ever use - doesn't exactly help the situation. It's really a double edged sword.

Parents should know what their kids are watching, especially if they're the ones buying it. If they don't, they have no one but themselves to blame.

Yes!! I completely agree with you here! I make a point to always know what my children are watching. It really angers me when parents have no idea what their children are watching. That's pretty shitty parenting.

[FaeT]

Roseanne actually showed fat people on television, who were normal and happy. This so traumatized the TV networks that fat people haven't been shown again. Well until Mike&Molly, but I haven't seen it so I can't comment, and that took 20 years.

I loved the episode when the Conner's power went out due to non-payment. "Well, middle class was fun!"

Yes!! I forgot about the obvious one! Fat people who not only are happy but have no intention of losing weight.

I remember that episode when the power went out. I remember when they got a dishwasher and Darlene said "The Conners have entered 1970" lol That's another thing about them. They didn't have any luxuries. And the kids had chores that we actually saw them doing! They fought over the chores and traded chores. I don't think I ever saw anyone do dishes on Full House, aside from the time Jesse used the sink hose thing to wash a baby butt.

[valsa]

I loved the episode when the Conner's power went out due to non-payment. "Well, middle class was fun!"

As weird as it sounds, I actually try to keep that episode in mind when I'm at work. I work customer service for a utility company and it can be hard to keep being empathetic towards people in a job where you're guaranteed to be cussed out at least a half dozen times a day.

[emmiedahl]

My favorite Roseanne episode is probably the one where Darlene starts her period. Darlene is pissed and starts packing away her sports stuff. Roseanne tells her, "These are woman's things if a woman uses them" or something similar. I LOVE THIS. I think at the time, more than 20 years ago, there was more of a perception that tomboys would "grow up" and that meant becoming a lady. It is still there, but not as mainstream, and we have all these kick-ass women my mom's age like Roseanne to thank for it.

My mother bought me tons of blocks for my 3rd birthday--Lincoln Logs, Tinker Toys, etc--and at the time this was a bit strange. She says she got some negative feedback from people at the birthday party, like where are the dollies? I had dollies and they were not interesting to me; even though I was a girlier child I wanted to build shit.

[Witsec7]

LoL Emmie. It was up to others to provide the dolls for my DD. For her fifth birthday her Dad built her a tool chest and equipped it with real tools that were merely adult tools in smaller sizes. And she got a tool belt too. The kid still depends on her tool box, while what dollies that remain are packed away in my shed. :D

[valsa]

My favorite Roseanne episode is probably the one where Darlene starts her period. Darlene is pissed and starts packing away her sports stuff. Roseanne tells her, "These are woman's things if a woman uses them" or something similar. I LOVE THIS. I think at the time, more than 20 years ago, there was more of a perception that tomboys would "grow up" and that meant becoming a lady. It is still there, but not as mainstream, and we have all these kick-ass women my mom's age like Roseanne to thank for it.

I liked that episode too. I'm not sure, up to that point, that any show had realistically addressed a daughter starting her period and the pressures society still puts on young girls after that happens to grow up (and by "grow up" they, of course, mean "turn in to what society considers to be a proper young lady")

I also liked an early episode where Darlene had a school assignment to write a poem (which she didn't want to do) and it ended up being chosen so that she had to read it at some school gathering. It started out kinda funny and sarcastic, like you would expect from Darlene, but ended in some poignant tween angst that I really identified with as a kid.

Something else I loved about the Conners was their wardrobe. Unlike a lot of family shows at the time, they didn't have designer clothes and new outfits every week. IIRC, there was even a running gag with a T-shirt (or maybe sweater) with a chicken on it that every member of the cast wore at least once during the show's run.

ETA: Aw, found the poem. I so remember being "that girl".

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[Visionoyahweh]

As weird as it sounds, I actually try to keep that episode in mind when I'm at work. I work customer service for a utility company and it can be hard to keep being empathetic towards people in a job where you're guaranteed to be cussed out at least a half dozen times a day.

Here's the entire episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-iihQOxBkk

Darlene is pissed and starts packing away her sports stuff. Roseanne tells her, "These are woman's things if a woman uses them" or something similar

I liked that episode too. The earlier seasons were better. Roseanne lost creative control of the show as it went on, and had a lot of disputes with the writers. They pretty much tried to run the Conners into redneck caricatures, instead of a fairly accurate depictions on lower middles class/blue collar life.

ETA:

Something else I loved about the Conners was their wardrobe. Unlike a lot of family shows at the time, they didn't have designer clothes and new outfits every week. IIRC, there was even a running gag with a T-shirt (or maybe sweater) with a chicken on it that every member of the cast wore at least once during the show's run.

That's because Tom Arnold HATED that shirt, so Roseanne made sure it was prominent in every episode after they divorced.

[Guest Anonymous]

Oh my gosh, I LOVE the episode about Darlene and her poem. I always tear up when that episode comes on.

[FaeT]

I completely forgot about the period episode! You're right, no tv show ever went there. And I can't recall any tv show going there since then.

I loved the chicken shirt!!

Dude. You can buy it! I'm so tempted!!

http://www.cafepress.co.uk/+roseanne-chicken-and-egg+t-shirts

[FaeT]

I believe that screenshot is from when Roseanne went through Darlene's stuff and found her checkbook and the money she had spent. They thought she was running away but I think she paid to get her comic printed.

[Guest Anonymous]

I think my favorite epi. was when Becky and her friend got drunk on "tornados" when Dan and Roseanne were gone for the day. Classic!

[Ali]

I finally decided to come out of lurking.

My 22 month old daughter is fascinated watching my husband and father-in-law work with tools. We had to barricade her once to keep her from stealing the screwdriver from my husband. We are planning on getting her some age appropriate tools for her birthday.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I don't think that's what she means here. It's the attitudes and accessories. This winx club thing (which I did recently discover is an italian show, but it's been on nick for a while) shows girls who have adult bodies but child like faces. And they strike very sexual poses. Seriously. They looks like strippers. Shows aimed at kids are showing poor attitudes, a lack of respect for anyone, way too much make up. I agree that forcing a child into modest clothes to prevent sexualizing them does in fact sexualize them, but dressing up a six year old to look like a whore - complete with more make up than I've ever worn in my life and more hair spray that I will ever use - doesn't exactly help the situation. It's really a double edged sword.

That's exactly what I meant when I wrote my previous post. I don't see how anyone can look at old footage of Jon Benet Ramsey or those little girls on Toddlers and Tiaras and not think those kids are being sexualized. Another time, I watched an episode of Dance Moms where the mom got into a fight with Abby Lee about the little girl's costume. The kid ended up going onstage wearing a white outfit that looked like a bra and panties. This girl was maybe nine or ten years old at the most. Maybe I'm just getting too damn old, but I would never let any child of mine go onstage (or on TV) wearing such a skimpy outfit.

As far as the Disney Channel teens are concerned, they do have secondary sexual characteristics. It's normal for teenage girls to want to push the limits and show off, but at the same time it's also normal for their moms to say, "You are not leaving this house dressed like a prostitute. Go put on some clothes!" Or at least it used to be that way. I grew up during the era of the Madonna wanna-be. But I never saw little kids dressed like that. There was always a difference between the clothes worn by teens vs. the clothes worn by children. Now they dress the same.

[0KidsAndHappy]

This episode was beautiful...

izGw9QGMVuY

[gustava]

I finally decided to come out of lurking.

My 22 month old daughter is fascinated watching my husband and father-in-law work with tools. We had to barricade her once to keep her from stealing the screwdriver from my husband. We are planning on getting her some age appropriate tools for her birthday.

Welcome. When she learns how to hammer, would you send her my way?

[gilora]

One of my all-time favorite episodes of Roseanne was when DJ discovered masturbation and was locking himself in the bathroom for long periods of time to "take care of business." Darlene wisecracked that DJ was "either really, really good at it or really, really bad at it." When it was speculated that DJ could turn into a serial killer, Darlene asked "how much damage can he do with one hand?" As I recall, unlike Seinfeld, Roseanne actually used the "m" word.

As for the Disney shows, I think they're relatively harmless. I let my kids watch ANT Farm, Victorious and Kickin' It. Of course, I'm a work-outside-the home, athiest, castrating bitch so take my advice with a mountain of salt.