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alysee

Josh courting before Anna?

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MojoMama7

The accusations made sense to me because I always thought it explained the frosty relationship between Anna and Jana. At some point Josh would have had to confess to having hot, sweaty, rumpy-pumpy good times with his sister to his wife and Anna (as is typical in these situations) blamed Jana for seducing Josh.

I also thought it explained why John David was not allowed to stay in the house alone with the girls when they came back to Tontitown during Josie's hospitalization. Jim Bob and Michelle were too afraid of the same thing happening again so he was shunted off to stay with Josh and Anna.

I dunno, it made sense to me.

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Feberin

I could believe Josh and Jana (or even Jill). Oprah would have been unhappy but not worried for the safety. But I thought at some point the story was that Josh molested one of the little ones (Joy?). And I don't believe that because somebody would have gotten him out of that house!

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ladypuglover

I don't buy the Alice story either, comes off so much like an axe to grind and why Grandma Mary? If anything would be even rometly true about her needing an axe to grind is maybe that she once worked for Mary and Mary fired her for skimming off the cash drawer or something. She sounds like she is a sad little person who just wants to hurt as many people as she can.

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bananacat

Either that, or the discussion about kissing/holding hands/whatever was totally fabricated for TLC's benefit.

Everything you see on tv is fabricated for TLC's benefit. Why would Anna have a cutesy little chat with Michelle about childbirth, for her second child? And the wedding conversation where JB gives Josh "the talk" was completely staged.

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bananacat

This is completely idle speculation, but didn't Michelle admit to switching around buddies because some of the siblings just couldn't get along? She said that she was advised to keep them together and make them work it out, but she didn't follow that advice and separated them to get some peace. Completely random and unsubstantiated, but maybe it was a case where Josh was molesting his buddy. Now that the girls are older, boys no longer have to be buddies, but back when Josh was younger even the boys had to have buddies. He's 6 years older than Jinger, so maybe when he was 8 or 10, she was his buddy and he did something to her. At that age it might have been something completely innocent like "playing doctor" and it got blown out of proportion and they considered it molestation. Or maybe he did actually molest her and their solution was to find him a different buddy. Or maybe the Duggars are all robots planted here by space aliens. I'll admit it's just speculation so don't take me too seriously.

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emmiedahl

Also, if he full-on hugged her, it would prob be seen as sexual. I have a feeling that sin in their camp is normal behavior in most camps.

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FloraDoraDolly

Everything you see on tv is fabricated for TLC's benefit. Why would Anna have a cutesy little chat with Michelle about childbirth, for her second child? And the wedding conversation where JB gives Josh "the talk" was completely staged.

Reality TV isn't any more real than a rerun of the Partridge Family. But there's plenty of b.s. on the Internet and that Alice woman doesn't sound very credible.

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DuckEgg
Or maybe the Duggars are all robots planted here by space aliens. I'll admit it's just speculation so don't take me too seriously.

Robots it is. :clap:

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luv2laugh

The only one that knows any truth in this is Oprah lol! And if you think about it, I kind of do believe the rumors because of the fact that Oprah has not had them on their show. Oprah has almost EVERYONE interesting on her show and always is racing to get to an interesting hit interview before the Today show or Good Morning America, and the fact is that Oprah has not ever had the Duggars on her show... Therefore, there must have been a pretty good reason for her not to have them on it.

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ophelia

Wow. Quite shocking news! Josh maybe abused of of his sisters? And was betrothed twice?? Especially the abuse-thing is heavy. I really hope that this is NOT true and anybody made up a really bad joke (even more than bad!!)

But if Josh was betrothed twice before and maybe abused one of his sisters, how could Mr. Keller give his daugther under his authority?? Didn't he know about that rumors or did he just ignore them? Does anybody know more??

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Feberin
The only one that knows any truth in this is Oprah lol! And if you think about it, I kind of do believe the rumors because of the fact that Oprah has not had them on their show. Oprah has almost EVERYONE interesting on her show and always is racing to get to an interesting hit interview before the Today show or Good Morning America, and the fact is that Oprah has not ever had the Duggars on her show... Therefore, there must have been a pretty good reason for her not to have them on it.

But do you think that Oprah would allow Josh to continue living with his sisters and therefore probably abusing them? Oprah is one to always speak out against child sex abuse! I think the theory that Oprah didn't have the on the show because she offered midwife clases ( or something similar) to the girls and the Duggars turned her down.

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browngrl

Robots it is. :clap:

:clap: Well that explains alot of things. Weird smile Michelle always has on = poor facial emotion soft wear. Crunchy looking hair on all the girls = metallic wig prosthesis AND the crunchy hair helps hide the wires. Hiking in flip flops = robot feet need no protection. Tatertot casserole = machine innards need lots of oily products.

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luv2laugh

But do you think that Oprah would allow Josh to continue living with his sisters and therefore probably abusing them? Oprah is one to always speak out against child sex abuse!

There was NO proof of Josh abusing his sisters therefore Oprah knew she could not legally do anything about it.

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WokChop

Has this mysterious Oprah interview ever been verified? To my knowledge, this story was woven over on TWoP by a known liar, "jhawksgirl."

Are any of you are familiar with the Gosselins Without Pity blog? Back in its early days, there was a poster named Penn Mommy, who claimed to know the Gosselins in real life. Penn Mommy's story became increasingly more dramatic, to the point that her son died (of what I've forgotten). Eventually she was exposed as a fraud. The fraudster was none other than "jhawksgirl."

Now that I've given you all an idea of what this person is all about...

Here is where jhawksgirl makes her claim. It is post number 1502:

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com ... try8136684

Here are some more questionable tidbits from her (most likely fictional) contact at Harpo. This is in regards to Josh, the alleged molestor:

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com ... try7979376

And, WOW, jhawksgirl sure does know a lot of people who have met the Duggars! Here is a post from back in 2006, where she claims a friend of hers, who works at Disney, just happened to be the Duggars' guide for the day:

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com ... try4975653

Bottom line: I wouldn't believe anything that jhawksgirl has ever typed.

ETA: Here is a link to a blog about Penn Mommy. It includes links to the original posts about Penn Mommy. I think one of those blogs mention that Penn Mommy was actually a "jhawksgirl" and "possum momma."

http://www.imperfectwomen.com/the-penn- ... ospective/

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Alecto

I think it is likely that Oprah has offered and the Duggars simply turned her down because they wouldn't have the level of control that they get other places like Today. When it comes to these type situations, the simplest answer is usually the truth.

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silverspoons

Oprah has had alot of TLC stars on and gone easy on them. I remember Oprah had the Gosselins on after Jon had been spotted out with ladies and Oprah did a superfical interview with them. Oprah also went easy on The Brown's from Sister Wives, it was more like a Today show interview. The rumor I had heard concerning Oprah and the Duggars is that she had offered them to be on the show and wanted to offer the kids scholarships to college and the Duggars declined. This was at least 3 years ago when fewer people realized the Duggars views on homeschool, SAHD, and working for yourself. I remember people being upset that the Dugars would turn down scholarships. The rumor got more people digging into the Duggars beliefs.

As for Josh courting, the age is the only thing that bothers me about the story. Why was Josh allowed to start courting at 14 or 16 and now there are 5 kids over 16 that aren't courting. Did the early courtship issues make the Duggars decide to wait till the kids were 20? or maybe JimBOb sees the $$ in keeping the kids home longer to parade them around and doesnt want early marriage?

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moreorlessnu
Has this mysterious Oprah interview ever been verified? To my knowledge, this story was woven over on TWoP by a known liar, "jhawksgirl."

Are any of you are familiar with the Gosselins Without Pity blog? Back in its early days, there was a poster named Penn Mommy, who claimed to know the Gosselins in real life. Penn Mommy's story became increasingly more dramatic, to the point that her son died (of what I've forgotten). Eventually she was exposed as a fraud. The fraudster was none other than "jhawksgirl."

Oh yes, I remember this. She had this ordeal going on for weeks. It was amazing the amount of 'creativity' and detail that was put into that story. A red flag went off in my head when she mentioned something about another son (or somebody) being in law school and having access to something or other (a list of lawyers or something??). There's nothing that they give you access to in law school that anyone else can't access via the internet.

Wasn't the son off at some school in California, and had some sort of appendicitis that turned into something else, or was it a car accident?

It's amazing that there are people out there who invest so much time in this type of nonsense. I forget what it's called, "Munchausen by Internet" or something like that?

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PBrooke

Please, someone pin this thread, or at least the info from my post on the first page. The primary source is increasingly difficult to find, And I see someone today is AGAIN misattributing the sin in the camp thing to JB, and I want to shoot something.

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lilwriter85

Thanks for bringing up this thread PBrooke.

After reading through it, I agree with others I don't think the molestation rumors are true. I read the Alice comments and the story doesn't mesh well and I think she blended truth into the story such as the donations and the part about the show being staged at times.

Anna's brother in-law did confirm through another person on DWOP about Boob's speech to Josh before the wedding being staged. Also, I believe it was mentioned that the Kellers had to sign forms/waivers with the TLC producers about acting certain ways or helping stage something.

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Daenerys

The part that doesn't add up to me is why, if Josh was caught doing something forbidden with the girl he was courting, they weren't just made to marry after having to apologise. I swear there was another similar fundy family who made the couple have a downsized, miserable wedding because the girls was knocked up. If Miss Holt, or whoever it was, had been caught in a compromising situation, then breaking off the courtship would surely have ruined her. She would possibly be too tainted to marry, and it wouldn't look great for Josh either. It just doesn't seem right that they would be forced apart and not forced together.

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annalena
I could believe Josh and Jana (or even Jill). Oprah would have been unhappy but not worried for the safety. But I thought at some point the story was that Josh molested one of the little ones (Joy?). And I don't believe that because somebody would have gotten him out of that house!

Really? Who? Certainly not his parents.

I can see Josh molesting his sisters. I've been a victim myself. Spare the comments like " I don't see it in his character."

Those things are committed by all kinds of men.

Sexually oppressed, hormon-infused teenage Josh tempted by a "defrauding" cleavage? Yes, I could toally see that. AND I could totally see his parents protecting him. As in, this doesn't need to be made public, it's the girl's fault, etc. Even not-fundy families tend to react like this.

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Bella99

Really? Who? Certainly not his parents.

I can see Josh molesting his sisters. I've been a victim myself. Spare the comments like " I don't see it in his character."

Those things are committed by all kinds of men.

Sexually oppressed, hormon-infused teenage Josh tempted by a "defrauding" cleavage? Yes, I could toally see that. AND I could totally see his parents protecting him. As in, this doesn't need to be made public, it's the girl's fault, etc. Even not-fundy families tend to react like this.

This.

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Alecto
The part that doesn't add up to me is why, if Josh was caught doing something forbidden with the girl he was courting, they weren't just made to marry after having to apologise. I swear there was another similar fundy family who made the couple have a downsized, miserable wedding because the girls was knocked up. If Miss Holt, or whoever it was, had been caught in a compromising situation, then breaking off the courtship would surely have ruined her. She would possibly be too tainted to marry, and it wouldn't look great for Josh either. It just doesn't seem right that they would be forced apart and not forced together.

I do know about the same time, Jim Bob and Jim Holt had a major falling out over politics. Jim Bob has always been a big supported of Mike Huckabee. Around the same time this all happened, Holt and Huckabee got into a very public fight about their different stances on educating the children of undocumented immigrants, both claiming their stance was "Christian." That lead to some nasty accusations on both sides.

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/dec/02 ... -huckabee2

It was about that time Holt and Jim Bob had a parting of ways, and stopped home churching together. So it would make sense that would end any courtship between them.

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Paisy

Really? Who? Certainly not his parents.

I can see Josh molesting his sisters. I've been a victim myself. Spare the comments like " I don't see it in his character."

Those things are committed by all kinds of men.

Sexually oppressed, hormon-infused teenage Josh tempted by a "defrauding" cleavage? Yes, I could toally see that. AND I could totally see his parents protecting him. As in, this doesn't need to be made public, it's the girl's fault, etc. Even not-fundy families tend to react like this.

I think it is just as important (more important?) that we not perpetuate such a rumor, since with nothing at all to back up such allegations that is exactly what it is, simply because we get the impression that Josh could be the type of person who might do that. I don't think that's fair.

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Bella99

Although there does not seem to be much of a reason to speculate about incest, I am not perpetuating a rumor when I point out that child molesters look just like everybody else. Furthermore, given the public nature of their family life, it would make sense to try to keep something like that private.

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