Breaking MAXWELL news/Liz cancelled the wedding to Joe

[Lillybee]

I am grateful that the parents allowed her to call off the engagement and I think that her father became convicted that Steve wasn't the one that he wanted to hand over Elizabeth's headship to.

[Deleted07]

I posted a reply, that will never see the light of moderation :mrgreen:

Perhaps you might realize that heading straight into marriage when you have only met half a dozen times and only spent HOURS within each others company, does NOT in fact build a relationship.

I am happy to hear, honestly. In the hopes that you will open your eyes to how disturbing this practice really is. And, that in the future you will make sure that more time is spent getting to know one another and ask genuine questions about what someone wants out of life, before diving head first into an engagement without truly knowing someones heart.

[twin2]

The posts are still in the cache. I just checked. Click the arrow to the right and look for the word cache to the upper right of that arrow you clicked on.

:oops:

Looks like I need to sign up for a course at the 1 Ton Ramp.

[Justme]

Oh fer chrissakes quit the freeking drama already. These kids met three times.

Yes, but Steve got caught with his "pants down around his knees.." A broken engagement doesn't look well on the patriarch. HE should have seen this coming. God spoke to a 20yo GIRL and not him. :naughty:

[pixydust]

WTG Elizabeth! I know that I shouldn't be this excited, but hell! I am! :dance:

[thoughtful]

You'd think changes like this would make them realize that it's not God doing anything, it's them, actually make a decision as human beings, and occasionally choosing wrongly.

Clearly they have to scrub their blog because all those old posts have about God laying it on their hearts and God directing it all and this is pure because it's God's will and all the rest - heck, in one of the comments asking Steve-O if perhaps the two betrothed shouldn't get to know each other better first, Steve-O snarked back that far more important was knowing God because he's the one directing it all and he knows best, or some of the usual stuff like that. It doesn't do well for the brand to have such talk up there saying God did it all, once it's fallen apart and not worked out.

Here, Steve -- use this!

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3qgb2t/

[Witsec7]

Yes, but Steve got caught with his "pants down around his knees.." A broken engagement doesn't look well on the patriarch. HE should have seen this coming. God spoke to a 20yo GIRL and not him. :naughty:

Yea he's the same dickwad that said something about 'how well do married couples know each other?'

[emmyfair]

I'm really happy for Elizabeth. I also escaped a fundie style courtship (catholic), and it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I'll admit, it sure didn't feel that way at the time, but as time passed, I saw how lucky I was. I carried on with life, got a university education, worked some amazing jobs, got to travel, and saw some amazing parts of life. Eventually, I did marry and had three kids - on my terms. I wish Elizabeth all the very best, and my advice to her; KEEP RUNNING!

[camdendayton]

WTG Elizabeth! I know that I shouldn't be this excited, but hell! I am! :dance:

If it makes you feel any better I once had a psych professor who said he found divorces to be happier than weddings, because no one needs to get married but there are people who NEED to get divorced. I always think of that line when celebrating a break-up, divorce or not.

:dance:

[lilith]

I think this is another example of how the courtship model seems a godsend for socially stunted, isolated, home schooled Christian boys.

They don't have to flirt and woo and impress and compete with more desirable men. They just find a pretty girl whose family knows their family and approach the father. By the time the girl is consulted both families are assembled expecting happy news, so the pressure to say yes is huge.

We see Zack Bates, Joseph, the guy engaged to the LiaS girl, all proposing courtship to pretty young girls who would be way out of their league in the secular world, where pretty young women hold most of the power as far as dating goes. And the girls agreeing cause that's what is expected of them, but backing out as soon as they have the privacy to think about it and realise they can do better and that they do desire more than godliness in a young man, no matter what daddy says they should want.

Alarm bells should have gone off for Elizabeth when the "no touching" courtship was proposed and both parties were fine with it. That speaks of a total lack of chemistry.

Of recent fundie courtships - Anna Duggar went through with her marriage, but it was to the ATI prince, the top catch in her circles. Priscilla was nearing the big 30, the point of spinsterhood in their society, so she accepted her awkward young man. I think that is one of the reasons we are seeing later weddings - the women only agree to marry these strange controlling men when they realise Prince Charming isn't going to come calling.

[luckystone]

Of recent fundie courtships - Anna Duggar went through with her marriage, but it was to the ATI prince, the top catch in her circles. Priscilla was nearing the big 30, the point of spinsterhood in their society, so she accepted her awkward young man. I think that is one of the reasons we are seeing later weddings - the women only agree to marry these strange controlling men when they realise Prince Charming isn't going to come calling.

The Duggar courtship seems practically sensible in comparison to this. I think Josh and Anna really did like each other. It was still rushed, but at least they had several dates (albeit chaperoned ones, but chaperoned by a sibling not a parent) and were allowed hugs and handsex.

[Mela99]

Gurrrrrrrllll....

I wonder if they really will look for an immediate replacement. Duggars looking better every day, eh Stevers?

I'm also waiting for some mass liberal conspiracy finger pointing for all these broken engagements.

[Loveday]

:shock: Wow. I don't really know what to say to this that hasn't already been said. I will say I'm very relieved for Elizabeth. And sorry for Joe. She's escaped, but he's still stuck in the cult.

[Markie]

Cricky! I go away for the weekend, and here is what I read when I check out FJ.. Way to go, Elizabeth! Although I was looking forward to snarking on a fundy wedding, this is so much better - Lizzie has escaped the Doom of the Maxwells! Also it puts some fundy making making years (months) on hold. They really need to perfect their courtships - or dating with a purpose. The vast majority of the world cannot imagine only meeting their intended spouses only three times and not wanting to touch or spend time alone. I still don't get it, if these "children" have been raised (trained) to avoid premartial sex, why can't they have some privacy? How weird is it to go from chore pack/ chaperones listening in on phone calls - reading emails, to complete privacy with a virtual stranger???

Guess Joe's back in a single bunk on Uriah, poor lad....

[mirele]

It's possible for a marriage where the parties only knew each other three months prior to the wedding day to succeed--but it's HARD work. My parents met over Memorial Day weekend in 1959 and got married the Saturday before Labor Day the same year. Their marriage worked because they were willing to work at it, even when things got really, really awful. But it also helped that they were from the same part of the country (California, and both with parents from Oklahoma) and the same economic and social background (they had mutual friends, they'd just never met because my mom is six years younger than my dad).

It also helped that both sets of parents were out of the picture--my dad's mother and stepfather were in Oklahoma and my mother was not on speaking terms with her father and stepmother who lived in the same city she did. So there was no uber-controlling father looking for additional members for his little family cult, like here.

Yes, Steve, you've got a little cult going, and I'm going to say it over and over and over again until you let your children have their own lives. You know, like Sarah getting a job somewhere and meeting regular people.

[Daenerys]

They met three fucking times outside of the conferences. :roll:

I would say that there was no fucking involved, but if Elizabeth disappears after this on an extended holiday... I mean Razing Ruth's sister showed no matter how sheltered your children are they can still find ways to do it and get in more trouble than they realise.

[mirele]

Guess Joe's back in a single bunk on Uriah, poor lad....

Guess that's going to turn the fall Maxwell tour into a real bummer, you know, failed courtship and all....

[Maul the Koala]

Go Elizabeth, it's yo birthday! :banana-linedance:

Go to the store, get some Pepsi and read a non-approved Maxwell book!

Now off to read the rest of the thread.

[Daenerys]

Go Elizabeth, it's yo birthday! :banana-linedance:

Go to the store, get some Pepsi and read a non-approved Maxwell book!

Now off to read the rest of the thread.

So that would be... a newspaper?

[Maul the Koala]

So that would be... a newspaper?

Haha. Excellent. Several in fact. And something whimsical too.

[pixydust]

So that would be... a newspaper?

The yellow pages. There are abortion clinics, psychics, mosques, lingerie stores.....

[moreorlessnu]

Honest to Pete, when I saw the title of this thread, I thought it was going to be a troll. A sincere apology to the poster who started this thread.

If it's true what Anna Duggar said, is it possible that Elizabeth just had the "talk" w/ her mother, and once she realized just how well she was going to have to get to know Joseph, she bailed?

Could she really have the hots for John? If I were 20, and met John and Joseph, I'd be pretty pissy if Daddy betrothed me off to Joseph while John sat there looking dreamy.

I guess god got his signals crossed when he laid this plan on Steve's heart.

This is what happens when people clutter up God's time with ridiculous nonsense such as, "should I sprinkle the cinnamon sugar on the toast using my right hand or my left Dear Lord?". God ends up messing up the important things like an engagement. Sheesh.

[TrishaMiki]

I only saw the news now on their blog. I'm so happy for Elizabeth! That was going to be a crazy rushed wedding and I bet she would live miserable for the rest of her life. I really hope she can find someone good for her that let's her be herself and not some factory-produced-Maxhell.

[Markie]

Guess that's going to turn the fall Maxwell tour into a real bummer, you know, failed courtship and all....

Abby better not ask to feed the chipmunks for a second day - Grampy will be very grumpy and we don't want that!!!

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I have to wonder though just why DID they rush this engagement and wedding so fast? As far as I recall the only reason given by Steve-O was that once the decision to marry was made, there was no sense risking temptation, they should tie the knot right away rather than possibly get unchaste before the legal ceremony.

Of course, just because that was the only reason given, doesn't mean that was the only reason, or even A real reason.

Add to that, I can kinda see that POV for having a short engagement (if you consider engagements to be almost unbreakable) but why on earth did they rush the engagement? Why not have Joseph court her for a year? They'd have plenty of opportunities to pimp the courtship thing all along the way, and meanwhile if Joseph and Elizabeth had only met a few times IF that and seemed to have no chemistry (not to mention brainwashed that any touching is bad bad bad bad) why would they find the long courtship a trial anyway? Why would they supposedly be risking unchasteness?

I suppose there's always the "Joseph had an AMAZING boner forever" theory in snarkland, but a bit more seriously I wonder just what else was really going on behind the scenes to make the thing so rushed. The fall schedule was maybe part of it? Or some other arrangement between the families?

I have to wonder if the Muncks are going to pretty much drop out of the Maxwell orbit now (and possibly go back to some of their earlier ways?) or? If they don't I suspect it would be kinda awkward to show up at any more conferences, if the wedding is truly just "No. Can. Do" and not (as would have theoretically been possible) a "I don't know, I'm worried, let's extend this."

Speaking of which that's the other question, if it were ONLY "this is too fast I'm not sure" you'd think maybe they'd just postpone, but this is off off off. So I agree with others upthread that this had to be pretty serious. Maybe she did realize just what she was getting into. Again, her family only met the Maxwells (and so had opportunities to start travelling down that road) in 2008. That's not such a long time.