Jill Duggar is Now a Lay Midwife

[NurseNell]

It's not a question of Jill's religion, it's the fact that she seeme the type to try and shove it down people's throats. I can also see her getting all judgmental at patients who aren't "ideal" in her view -- a woman who had an elective abortion in the past or a lesbian couple having a baby with donor sperm.

But we don't know that. Making assumptions is never a very wise thing.

[pixydust]

a new photo on the Mommy's Butterfly facebook page:

OMG, look at that short skirt! Above the knee and everything! Run, Jill! you can do it!

[Katiebug]

Based on the Facebook page of her overseeing "midwife", the entire practice is Christian based. There are comments of Praise God and the like when births are announced. If Jill did eventually move to become a nurse or even a CNM, I doubt she'd get more "liberal" than fundie lite.

As for men being present at a delivery, my amazing OBGYN is male and he delivered our daughter. It didn't matter to me that he was a guy - what mattered was that he was my doctor who did all of my prenatal care and knew us, and I told myself if I just listened to what he said both me and the baby would be OK. I don't get all earth mama girl power when it comes to pregnancy and childbirth; I want someone I trust and who knows us caring for me when I need it and in my experience their plumbing is inconsequential when it comes to their skill and bedside manner. There are great clinicians in women's health care who are male, just as there are lousy female clinicians in the same field.

[gilora]

But we don't know that. Making assumptions is never a very wise thing.

Fair enough, but I don't think it's a stretch. Jill has been so sheltered for so long I have a difficult time seeing her interacting well with non-Christians.

[Slt]

Just a sidenote: her technique for taking a blood pressure is not correct. The practitioner's thumb should never be over the bell when listening for a BP... It can pick up on your own BP versus the patient's (therefore giving a wrong reading). Sad for Jill that she isn't getting the best training, as this is something we learned in the first week of nursing school.

[NurseNell]

Just a sidenote: her technique for taking a blood pressure is not correct. The practitioner's thumb should never be over the bell when listening for a BP... It can pick up on your own BP versus the patient's (therefore giving a wrong reading). Sad for Jill that she isn't getting the best training, as this is something we learned in the first week of nursing school.

Oh, I agree she should be going to college to become a R.N. , then a midwife Master's program. She absolutely is not getting the education she needs.

[Deleted07]

Its a fair assumption to make in my opinion, as someone above said the midwife page is obviously fundie with the praise Jesus and God also mentioned in her blurb 'about me'. (You also can't tell me her parents would let her work with someone who wasn't!)

We've also seen time and time again, they can get a little 'look down their nose' snobbery look on their faces. Remember the public school where the little kids did a dance? All those older girls scowled and glared and looked very uncomfortable and 'down their nose' at what was going on. Not to mention the Duggar world tour, with Jim-Bob bailing up the street performer asking him about his religion, then proceeding to tell him about God etc. *eyeroll*

So yeah, in my opinion these 'assumptions' are actually fair consider what we have seen and know of them. Its pretty much what freejinger does is banter on these things, its called Snark for a reason ;-)

[Witsec7]

Its a fair assumption to make in my opinion, as someone above said the midwife page is obviously fundie with the praise Jesus and God also mentioned in her blurb 'about me'. (You also can't tell me her parents would let her work with someone who wasn't!)

We've also seen time and time again, they can get a little 'look down their nose' snobbery look on their faces. Remember the public school where the little kids did a dance? All those older girls scowled and glared and looked very uncomfortable and 'down their nose' at what was going on. Not to mention the Duggar world tour, with Jim-Bob bailing up the street performer asking him about his religion, then proceeding to tell him about God etc. *eyeroll*

So yeah, in my opinion these 'assumptions' are actually fair consider what we have seen and know of them. Its pretty much what freejinger does is banter on these things, its called Snark for a reason ;-)

The Duggars twist and redefine words so that they can justify behaviors. These behaviors are the reactions of fame whores who merely want to secure another years cash flow. Michelle is now in the process of redefining apprenticeship and midwife. Why? Because they cannot admit that their children are woefully unprepared for life after a SODRT education. These 'career choices' are not made by the children nor are they made in the best interests of their children.

[Deleted07]

Exactly! Totally agree double D ;-)

[NurseNell]

The Duggars twist and redefine words so that they can justify behaviors. These behaviors are the reactions of fame whores who merely want to secure another years cash flow. Michelle is now in the process of redefining apprenticeship and midwife. Why? Because they cannot admit that their children are woefully unprepared for life after a SODRT education. These 'career choices' are not made by the children nor are they made in the best interests of their children.

I think it's Jill's choice to be a midwife. She may even have chosen the way she's going about it, although I think that is more likely to be Michelle and Jim Bob's choice. How can we intervene with Jill and try to get her to understand that she really should be going to college?

Do any of you follow Dr. Amy? She's a non-practicing OB/GYN, by choice to raise her kids. She has a blog that writes about the tragedy of home deliveries by mostly unlicensed, lay midwives. I can't believe they can still practice in so many states but they can. I really hoped that Jill would go to a real, accredited school to study.

[bananacat]

Okay, every hunter and gatherer society known to anthropologists and also the traditional cultures of the Middle East, Africa, Asia and much of Europe. With occasional but very rare exceptions. Time period: prior to less than a century ago. While I agree that boys should not be grossed out by periods, many of them are. Seeing their mother's vagina contorted to accommodate a baby is not a way to introduce them to these issues. I was responding to the idea that a woman who is comfortable with her daughters in the room should be equally comfortable inviting the sons.

I never said men are not capable. They are. Most men in the US attend their wives' births. But I do think it is a uniquely feminine experience and that female attendants who are experienced in labor and delivery is a great set-up for me. For me. I understand that some people do not see labor as a "girl power" experience, but I do. It was the most female and the most powerful experience of my life. It is not about shame or keeping feminine things out of men's sight to protect their delicate sensibilities, but rather that it is an experience women understand on a deeper level.

I understand that some people strongly agree with me, and others strongly disagree. That's fine.

You'll have to give me some actual references if you expect me to believe that men have rarely been involved in childbirth. It sounds like your particular husband doesn't want to be involved and you are trying very hard to justify it by assuming that all men everywhere have always been like that.

[bananacat]

But we don't know that. Making assumptions is never a very wise thing.

But we do know that. Jill is an Evangelical. It's her life's calling to evangelize. Everything she does is secondary to the goal of evangelizing. That's what Evangelicals do. It's more reasonable to assume that she's evangelizing than to assume that this is all some secret plot to get out of the evangelical lifestyle altogether.

[Witsec7]

Yea if Jimboob can evangelize a busker, Jill can certainly evangelize a client.

[luckystone]

Do any of you follow Dr. Amy? She's a non-practicing OB/GYN, by choice to raise her kids. She has a blog that writes about the tragedy of home deliveries by mostly unlicensed, lay midwives. I can't believe they can still practice in so many states but they can. I really hoped that Jill would go to a real, accredited school to study.

Is she the skeptical OB? I can't stand her, she's nutty and hostile. I think a lot of people have the same view. Any sensible points she makes are lost in hysteria. She also seems to forget that some midwives are trained with four-year degrees and employed by the government, and not everyone who births at home does it without any medical help. And she's crazy about circumcision.

[NurseNell]

Is she the skeptical OB? I can't stand her, she's nutty and hostile. I think a lot of people have the same view. Any sensible points she makes are lost in hysteria. She also seems to forget that some midwives are trained with four-year degrees and employed by the government, and not everyone who births at home does it without any medical help. And she's crazy about circumcision.

Yes, that's her. I agree with your assessment. I do like reading the stories though. My DH was a M.D. who did home deliveries. His patients who chose home delivery were generally people without insurance, home delivery is cheaper. And he bartered. Home deliveries are an option for low risk pregnancies, with a M.D. or licensed nurse midwife in attendance.

[Visionoyahweh]

I can't wait for Jill to try that 'god opens the womb' BS with an Atheist or outspoken patient. You just know she's going to get an earful one day.

[emmiedahl]

You'll have to give me some actual references if you expect me to believe that men have rarely been involved in childbirth. It sounds like your particular husband doesn't want to be involved and you are trying very hard to justify it by assuming that all men everywhere have always been like that.

My husband wanted very much to be there, which is why he was.

Traditional birth attendants are almost always female according to the UN http://www.unfpa.org/monitoring/pdf/n-issue7.pdf I could also direct you to any anthropology textbook.

Really now, I said that I would prefer an all-female birth because it is an intensively female experience to me. This was not intended to spark an argument with a commenter that I otherwise like very much. We disagree and that is okay.

[lilwriter85]

Its a fair assumption to make in my opinion, as someone above said the midwife page is obviously fundie with the praise Jesus and God also mentioned in her blurb 'about me'. (You also can't tell me her parents would let her work with someone who wasn't!)

We've also seen time and time again, they can get a little 'look down their nose' snobbery look on their faces. Remember the public school where the little kids did a dance? All those older girls scowled and glared and looked very uncomfortable and 'down their nose' at what was going on. Not to mention the Duggar world tour, with Jim-Bob bailing up the street performer asking him about his religion, then proceeding to tell him about God etc. *eyeroll*

So yeah, in my opinion these 'assumptions' are actually fair consider what we have seen and know of them. Its pretty much what freejinger does is banter on these things, its called Snark for a reason ;-)

I agree the assumptions are fair and I don't see Jill intereacting well with non-Christians or even non-traditional families (e.g. lesbian couples, single mom, unwed straight couples expecting a baby, etc). I think the overseeing midwife Venessa has pretty much established her midwife practice as a Christian practice, I think there is a large chance that non-Christian couples have never worked with Venessa and I can see Jill establishing herself among fundie/evangelical or mainstream Christian families. Out of the J'Slaves, Jill always come off as very smug. I have noticed Jessa and Jinger are a bit smug too.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Jill will mainly work with other ATI families or ATI-wanna be families. Their the only ones who will accept her dubious education.

[FundiesInMyFamily]

I see the supervisor's and Jill's midwife "practice" the same as whatshisnames photography business - there is probably some established criterea as to who she will and won't work with, for example they must be married, hetero, christian, ect.

[Turtle]

Is she the skeptical OB? I can't stand her, she's nutty and hostile. I think a lot of people have the same view. Any sensible points she makes are lost in hysteria. She also seems to forget that some midwives are trained with four-year degrees and employed by the government, and not everyone who births at home does it without any medical help. And she's crazy about circumcision.

I haven't read Dr. Amy since my last pregnancy, but if I remember correctly, she isn't against CNMs, just poorly trained CPM and direct entry midwives.

While I hope for the best for Jill, I can't get excited about women receiving sub-standard medical care.

[NurseNell]

I haven't read Dr. Amy since my last pregnancy, but if I remember correctly, she isn't against CNMs, just poorly trained CPM and direct entry midwives.

Correct.

[EmmieJ]

But we don't know that. Making assumptions is never a very wise thing.

I think we certainly have a lot of data to work with in formulating a hypothesis vis-a-vis Jill's religious beliefs and whether she might try to "push" them on patients who don't already share them. One only has to look at her idiot father to see what sort of example she's been raised with.

However, I seriously doubt Jill would act as a midwife for any woman who isn't already a Gothard fundie like the Duggars.

[luckystone]

Yes, that's her. I agree with your assessment. I do like reading the stories though. My DH was a M.D. who did home deliveries. His patients who chose home delivery were generally people without insurance, home delivery is cheaper. And he bartered. Home deliveries are an option for low risk pregnancies, with a M.D. or licensed nurse midwife in attendance.

That's interesting. I forgot some people would choose it because of money, because here it's free in a public hospital. The financial aspect would probably change things with regards to who chooses it and why in the USA compared to here. It's cool your husband did homebirths. Here doctors and the government seem to have become quite militantly homebirth compared to the past, it makes me sad because a lot of them seem biased. Home birth is common in Europe.

[alaeangelorum]

Just a sidenote: her technique for taking a blood pressure is not correct. The practitioner's thumb should never be over the bell when listening for a BP... It can pick up on your own BP versus the patient's (therefore giving a wrong reading). Sad for Jill that she isn't getting the best training, as this is something we learned in the first week of nursing school.

Really? No-one taught me that in 6 years of medical school... also don't see how you could pick up your own bp when the cuff is around the patient's arm... I suppose there is a tiny possibility of your own pulse being transmitted but that should be minimal if you've turned your stethoscope the right way round.

(I would also assume that she may not be getting the best training, but IMHO this is not a good example of that)