Jill Duggar is Now a Lay Midwife

[lilwriter85]

Well, yes that is always possible. Wasn't Jill there when Michelle miscarried?

I don't think she was, IIRC Boob or Mullet mentioned that Jill had heard a heartbeat a day or two before Mullet went to the doctor.

[Mela99]

I am not even going to touch the hoochie comment. I'll get the brain soap out later for that -- if anybody needs some, come my way - I coupon, I have mad stashes of brain soap.

So which daughter is going to be a midwife next? Don't they have to do all these things in pairs, God forbid they be unsupervised? Do they send another daughter along just for the heck of it?

I will concede Jill looks happy... I just hope she gets to keep being happy.

[NurseNell]

(I know some won't agree, but...)

Disaster in the making. FWIW I am completely in support of certified (highly educated) nurse midwives and totally opposed to "lay" midwifery.

Too many years as a healthcare professional; I have seen too much.

Also FWIW, I think she is intelligent enough to become a certified nurse midwife, but it would take some major filling in of huge gaps in her education first.

I'm with you. A professional nurse midwife, with a R.N. and master's in midwifery, should be the only midwives allowed to practice.

[gilora]

I agree with you on that, and Jill seems like fundie pleaser. She would definitely proselytize if she was doing midwife missionary work.

I hear you, but Jill does seem like a genuinely caring person. Footage of her on the mission trips seems to indicate that she forms close personal bonds with the people she's trying to "help." Of all the Duggars, she seems the one most likely to put caring ahead of proselytizing.

[Bethella]

I don't think she was, IIRC Boob or Mullet mentioned that Jill had heard a heartbeat a day or two before Mullet went to the doctor.

I don't think she was at the doctor, but IIRC she was listed on the "birth certificate" shown at the funeral as attending the "birth" along with the midwife she has been studying with and another of the midwife's apprentices. In which case, yes she probably saw more of Michelle than she should have. Not to mention the fact that they discourage medical personnel from treating family members.

[Miggy]

Weren't a couple of the girls at the hospital for one of the lost girls? Jordyn maybe? I am almost sure I remember two girls, Jessa (?) and Jill (?) were beside Michelle's bed and were going to stay for the birth but because it ended as a caesarian only Jim Bob was allowed in the operating theatre. Then again, maybe I dreamt all that so please correct me if I am wrong. I can't access youtube at the moment to check myself.

Anyway, I don't think Michelle has a problem with the girls seeing her privates. After all, she lets the film crew in!

[slickcat79]

Weren't a couple of the girls at the hospital for one of the lost girls? Jordyn maybe? I am almost sure I remember two girls, Jessa (?) and Jill (?) were beside Michelle's bed and were going to stay for the birth but because it ended as a caesarian only Jim Bob was allowed in the operating theatre. Then again, maybe I dreamt all that so please correct me if I am wrong. I can't access youtube at the moment to check myself.

Anyway, I don't think Michelle has a problem with the girls seeing her privates. After all, she lets the film crew in!

The older girls (Jana and Jill) were there for Johannah's birth in 2005, and Jennifer's as well (I think). I'm not sure how much they really saw, since Michelle was covered with a staggering amount of surgical drapes, but Jill was holding her leg and Jana was manning the camera for the big moment.

b1HJbkjohhk

ETA: Jana, Jill and Jessa were there for Jennifer's birth, in the Duggar Big Family Album special, and Jordyn's birth was in the 17K&C episode "Baby Makes 18". They actually let Jessa in the OR during her c-section.

[Kaylee]

I'm with you. A professional nurse midwife, with a R.N. and master's in midwifery, should be the only midwives allowed to practice.

This is how it is in NC, I believe. They also have to have an OB sign on as a "backup" and the CNM I go to works with him in the same practice. I really liked that - I saw the midwife for all my visits but, once my son started measuring super-huge and I went past my due date, the OB talked to me some and he reviewed the ultrasounds and stress tests along with my midwife. When I ended up having a c-section, he was the one to do it and it made me more comfortable because we'd met and talked some and because we'd discussed a few of my preferences in case I'd ended up needing one.

The only bad side I see to this is that it means that there are almost no midwives who do homebirths, because of insurance and the OB requirement, so many of the homebirthers here seem to feel forced into either unassisted home births or going with illegal and unregulated lay midwives. There is one woman I know of who has sort of an underground practice doing this - she claims to be a doula but acts as a "lay" midwife and has no professional medical training. My doula (who was a L&D RN for 20 years) warned me to avoid her and the group of followers around her if I ever decided to train as a doula.

[NurseNell]

Totally agree with 19 dogs and counting here.

When I did my nursing clinical rotation in OB, I was really amazed by how knowledgeable most of the labor and delivery RNs are. From what I understand, plenty of RNs start in postpartum and work their way into labor and delivery if they're interested in that area. Labor and delivery is considered a critical care area in many hospitals and most RNs going into it spend a considerable amount of time training with a preceptor prior to being on their own with patients - and even after training ends, they still have a staff of experienced people around them to ask questions or seek advice (or sound an emergency code). They see hundreds of births (literally) including ones that go badly wrong and become familiar with the early warning signs that something's not going right as well as interventions. They know for themselves what advantages/disadvantages medical intervention carries and what's available in terms of medical intervention in a bad birth situation and how fast it needs to be accessed to be effective.

The CNMs I've met largely don't seem to have a fear of medical intervention - they think it's great for women to have an alternative to hospital birth and a more comfortable environment with less chance of unnecessary medical interventions and believe in natural birth - but also aren't afraid to say that the situation has progressed beyond what they can handle and it's time to go. Not to say every CNM is like this, but that's what I've mostly gathered from the ones I've spoken with.

This is to say, while I'm sure there are lay midwives out there that are prudent and well-trained, the training specifications just don't seem as rigorous. And while I'll admit a certain bias (as a nurse myself, although not in L+D), I see the nursing training as a helpful thing.

I'm another nurse who is with you. I really think there needs to be basic requirements to become a midwife, no matter what the state. A 4 year R.N. should be required before being allowed to study midwifery at an accredited post graduate program.

St. Joe's Hospital in the Twin Cities, MN has the lowest C-section rate in MN at about 15% ( it's actually lower, at about 10%). Certified Nurse Midwives do more deliveries there than are done by M.D.'s. My google page isn't coming up to provide the documentation about their low C-section rate, I'll post it when google is back up. My 3 grandsons were delivered there, by midwives, who were fantastic!

I would love to see Jill become a CNM. I'm not holding my breath however.

From Wikipedia:

St. Joseph’s is nationally recognized for its low rate of Cesarean section births, an achievement hospital officials attribute to the partnership between physicians and certified nurse-midwives. The Cesarean rate at St. Joseph’s is approximately 10 percent, compared to 26 percent in Minnesota and 32 percent in the United States.

edited to spell accredited correctly

[Deleted07]

New pic on the Mommy's Butterfly facebook page with Jill:

A cute button nose, a sweet little smile, new baby Max is here and it took only a short while:) We welcomed to the world little Max at 9:17 this morning, weighing a whopping 6lbs 2oz! Praise the Lord for a wonderful birth;)

Rebecca - Thanks to all of you for taking such good care of Elizabeth and Baby Max!!! Such a nice peaceful setting surrounded by love!

Laura - They do a great job!!

[DarkAnts]

New pic on the Mommy's Butterfly facebook page with Jill:

She looks so skinny in that photo. I wonder if its just the scrubs and bad photo or if its something else. We know that Jana is pressured to keep the weight off (doing weight watchers since she was a teen). I wonder if Jill is also pressured.

[Deleted07]

I think all the girls are just naturally very skinny, I noticed Jinger in another pic that was posted in the instagram thread looks positively anorexic. I think its just the frumpers they wear that don't show that off.... But of course we all know those oldest 4 girls are the mules of the family doing all the work, and I've definitely heard tales of women in such crazily controlled environments becoming anorexic/bulimic because its the only thing they can control in their life... would be incredibly sad if that was the case!

[lilah]

The whole family runs pretty skinny given their lifestyle. That or they are used to having small portions of all that salty fatty food. Heck even J'chelle looks pretty good having had been pregnant 21 times.

[Muriel]

She doesn't look too skinny to me, she is young and seems totally normal... She is also really pretty with a nice, genuine smile :)

[Witsec7]

I wonder which sister accompanies her when she goes off to a delivery or to visit clients?

[moreorlessnu]

She looks so pretty and genuinely happy in this pictures.

[Miggy]

Bit worried that she thinks 6lbs2oz is a "whopping" baby. When I had my kids I was told 7lbs2oz was average. Not sure what jill would make of my three, who were all over 10lbs or my friend's, whose was over 12lbs. :lol:

[DistantStar]

I'm guessing she was joking about the "whopping" six-pounder. I was about that size and was TEENY.

I think she's the first Duggar I've seen a genuine smile on. Amazing how normal and human that family could look if they felt they were allowed to. I hope she's able to continue with this work just because of that, though oh I hope she goes on and becomes a full CNM. I'm shocked that some states allow lay midwives to practice.

[Jezebel Duggar]

She does look very happy, and I'm glad. I don't think she's had very much happiness in her life so far. I do wish it was over something besides a baby, only because I don't want her to be an infant-addict like Mullet seems to be. I hope Jill and all the Duggar kids find happiness whenever and wherever they can.

[SunnyAndrsn]

I'm with you. A professional nurse midwife, with a R.N. and master's in midwifery, should be the only midwives allowed to practice.

Agreed 1000%

Venessa Giron is NRP certified. How does that work? Does she cart around an O2 tank and ventilation equipment for resuscitation to home births? I'm honestly curious. I can see having a neonatal ambu bag...but if you have a newborn in serious distress, knowing the theory and the algorithms isn't going to help when that baby needs an umbilical line, meds, and intubation.

Good luck, Jill and be careful with this.

[ScaryMagdalene]

It's all happiness and smiles until a baby dies in your care because your not trained properly.

This is not a joke. This is not some one finding their happiness. There are lives at stake.

CPM's are improperly trained for most emergencies. I don't give a rat's ass about Jill's happiness. I care about Mama and baby.

[ScaryMagdalene]

I don't mean to come off as a total negative bitch.

But in midwifery, everything is great.

Until it's not.

That's a rule of thumb.

[luckystone]

Weren't a couple of the girls at the hospital for one of the lost girls? Jordyn maybe? I am almost sure I remember two girls, Jessa (?) and Jill (?) were beside Michelle's bed and were going to stay for the birth but because it ended as a caesarian only Jim Bob was allowed in the operating theatre. Then again, maybe I dreamt all that so please correct me if I am wrong. I can't access youtube at the moment to check myself.

Anyway, I don't think Michelle has a problem with the girls seeing her privates. After all, she lets the film crew in!

I said it before on here, I was present at the birth of my sibling so I guess I saw my Mum's privates, I don't think it's that weird. Now a daughter actually doing pre-natal care or cervix checks would be pretty odd but I don't think it's particularly odd to be present at the birth of a sibling, I know lots of people who have ended up in that situation either intentionally or by accident. When it's a birth you're not really thinking about the fact it's someone's vagina, it's just a birth canal. (And I don't mean this in an offensive "women are just a birth vessel" way, more that it never entered my head at any point that I could see my mother's vagina nor do I remember visual details about it, probably because there was a baby head about to come out.)

I think the weirdest thing is the fact they film the births but are SO MODEST (particularly incongruous with Anna's toilet birth).

[mockingbird]

I said it before on here, I was present at the birth of my sibling so I guess I saw my Mum's privates, I don't think it's that weird. Now a daughter actually doing pre-natal care or cervix checks would be pretty odd but I don't think it's particularly odd to be present at the birth of a sibling if there's a big age gap, I know lots of people who have ended up in that situation. When it's a birth you're not really thinking about the fact it's someone's privates, it's just a birth canal.

I think the weirdest thing is the fact they film the births but are SO MODEST (particularly incongruous with Anna's toilet birth).

Because you know it's not okay to see Michelle's knees but we can see everything else :roll:

I don't think it's that weird to be present at a sibling's birth, just probably depends on what your family is like and everyone's personality. When my mom is sick or in pain she doesn't want to talk to anyone so it would have driven her crazy to have us there, but I could see it being normal in another family. I mean it's normal in some families to have seen your family members naked so it wouldn't be THAT different to see a birth I don't think.

[bananacat]

I don't think it's necessarily weird to see the birth of a sibling, but what bothered me about it is that only the daughters were present. I don't like the way they perpetuate this attitude that childbirth is women's business and men should know as little as possible about it. It was educational for the girls, so it surely would have been just as educational for the boys. I think the howlers were all to young, but why couldn't Josh and John learn about the childbirth process? I am also doubtful that the girls had any choice in the matter, which also bothers me.