Jill Duggar is Now a Lay Midwife

[donks]

I want to hope that she will use this as a springboard into something like a nursing degree and CNM certification, but I doubt JB and/or whomever Jill is married off to would allow it.

And WTF @ "Mommy's Butterfly." What a cheesetastic name.

Jubilee's symbol is a butterfly cause Jchelle said she felt like a butterfly inside her tummy.

Maybe that is the reason for the horrid name.

Now I want to stab myself for talking about Jchelles tummy.

[silverspoons]

I'm happy Jill is out of the TTH and doing something different. I just hope in the ends she is choosing something she loves and that will provide her a salary to make her own choices.

I live in a rural area and ob/gyn charge $2500 (if you are uninsured or have a super high ded.) and midwives charge $1500. My daughter's friends mom is a midwife and I listen to her and some of the doulas(they charge $500) in her group complaining about money and the lack of people choosing their services. It just seems like alot of responsbility and time on call for the amount of money she makes(less then $25k last year). She obviously does it because she believes in her service and loves what she does. I hope Jill finds the what makes her happy and gets all the options available for education in her choosen path. I just worry if she marries and has to move out of state her training that is acceptable in AR would not be in another state? and she would not be able to continue.

[Witsec7]

I'm happy Jill is out of the TTH and doing something different. I just hope in the ends she is choosing something she loves and that will provide her a salary to make her own choices.

I live in a rural area and ob/gyn charge $2500 (if you are uninsured or have a super high ded.) and midwives charge $1500. My daughter's friends mom is a midwife and I listen to her and some of the doulas(they charge $500) in her group complaining about money and the lack of people choosing their services. It just seems like alot of responsbility and time on call for the amount of money she makes(less then $25k last year). She obviously does it because she believes in her service and loves what she does. I hope Jill finds the what makes her happy and gets all the options available for education in her choosen path. I just worry if she marries and has to move out of state her training that is acceptable in AR would not be in another state? and she would not be able to continue.

$25K would be a good living for Jill. She has no overhead or expenses. It's not like she pays rent, purchases food, pays car insurance, a car payment, beauty parlor visits etc.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Do you think Jill's supervisor has allowed her to attend any potentially problematic births? Or, only those that the supervisor assumes will go swimmingly?

Given what Michelle went through with Josie and then Jubilee, I'm sure Jill is very aware of the dangers to both Mom and Baby. Whether or not she is trained to take care of such complications herself at this point, I don't know. But she seems to have a good head on her shoulders. I am actually quite happy for her. She set a professional goal for herself and accomplished it-- and she did it while having to take care of her younger siblings, assist in the running of a large household, and accomodate the TLC filming schedule. So :clap: for Jill!

[VVV]

I can't be happy for her like everyone else is. She's still stifled. As soon as she gets married, it will be the end of everything. The only reason she's even allowed to do this is for publicity so the Duggars can claim one "success" from the SOTDRT. And we all know that Jill will use her position to proselytize, if she's even willing in the first place to work with non-fundies.

I don't think there's any way to know what Jill would do or say, given a little distance from her family and a means to support herself. Has she ever even had an opportunity to demonstrate disagreement with the parental agenda? If not, why assume that she's 100% on board with it? I would be willing to bet that many people brought up in crazy fundy-hood were/are adept at spouting the party line right up to the point that they implement their exit plan.

[roddma]

I thought the same thing about publicity myself. You don't see any of the Bates girl or Anna pursuing anything. It gives supporters fuel to say they have choices. They only have choices that conform to their beliefs. Anyway I hope Jill gets to work a while and earn her keep before marriage.

[Sola]

Can someone explain to me the difference between a Certified Professional Midwife and Licensed Lay Midwife (which I presume is the one Jill is going for). I know a Certified Nurse Midwife is similar to our Midwives here in the UK but what about the other two? Are they basically doulas?

[marmalade]

I am cautiously happy for her because in the pictures she has a genuine smile. I haven't seen any of the Duggar girls look so happy for awhile.

However I agree that it could be likely that she will stay forever an apprentice or be forced to give up her career. I don't have much hope she'll be able to break out of the fundy world.

I just keep having the feeling that she's going to be the Sarah Maxwell of this family, and will actually be able to pursue a degree. These families seem to keep one at home who will be the caretaker of the parents in their dotage and move in with Smuggar once Boob/Mullet can no longer be trusted to be alone when Jill is out on a call.

I'd rather her do this and have an actual career than be married off into the cult. She's already working under the supervision of another fundie (I wonder if they can request their supervisor, or if being paired with this Vanessa person was pure luck - and the only reason Jill could continue). If she couldn't continue due to having a heathen supervisor, she's the one making the Duggar Kool-Aid these days, and if Boob actually married her off (doubtful, but never say never), she'd be in line to have a ton of kids and no career. If something happens to any of the girls' husbands, who takes care of them? JD? Joseph? I name them since I'm sure as the eldest, it's Smuggar's responsibility to take the parents in when that time comes.

I wish Sarah Maxwell was allowed to find a real path for herself, since it's obvious with the latest "about Sarah" entry that she is no longer waiting for a man; Steve won't allow her to leave. Even the Botkinettes have more relative freedom than the Miss Maxwells. By comparison, the Duggars look downright liberal and we all know how whackadoodle they are.

[ScaryMagdalene]

There is a huge difference between fiacilitating the birth of a baby that has already died, and being responsible for the actual life of the baby and mother.

The clinical requirements posted on page 2 make me sick. 20 births as primary, 20 as secondary, 75 pre-natels and a test?! Unbelievable!

[ScaryMagdalene]

There is a huge difference between fiacilitating the birth of a baby that has already died, and being responsible for the actual life of the baby and mother.

The clinical requirements posted on page 2 make me sick. 20 births as primary, 20 as secondary, 75 pre-natels and a test?! Unbelievable!

[CanadianHippie]

Thank you. I want Jill involved in something hat isn't childcare, childbirth, or submissive marriage.

I want her involved in something she truly loves and has chosen to do even if it does involve childcare or childbirth.

[bananacat]

I don't think there's any way to know what Jill would do or say, given a little distance from her family and a means to support herself. Has she ever even had an opportunity to demonstrate disagreement with the parental agenda? If not, why assume that she's 100% on board with it? I would be willing to bet that many people brought up in crazy fundy-hood were/are adept at spouting the party line right up to the point that they implement their exit plan.

Are you somehow unfamiliar with the concept of Evangelism? Of course she'll proselytize unless she rebels completely. Everything they ever do is for the purpose of attempting to "win souls". Literally everything. I seriously hope that Jill doesn't take on non-fundie clients because the last thing a woman needs after the stress of labor is for someone to start preaching to her. There's a tiny chance that this is all some clever scheme for Jill to get out of the cult, but I see no reason to assume that it's even likely. And Jill is the least likely of all the kids to ever stray.

[VVV]

Are you somehow unfamiliar with the concept of Evangelism? Of course she'll proselytize unless she rebels completely. Everything they ever do is for the purpose of attempting to "win souls". Literally everything. I seriously hope that Jill doesn't take on non-fundie clients because the last thing a woman needs after the stress of labor is for someone to start preaching to her. There's a tiny chance that this is all some clever scheme for Jill to get out of the cult, but I see no reason to assume that it's even likely. And Jill is the least likely of all the kids to ever stray.

I am very familiar with the concept of Evangelism. I am also familiar with the concept of grown children not following along in their parents' belief systems. While Jill may very well do as you say, she's never had the least opportunity to demonstrate her own thoughts if they diverge at all from her parents'. I don't think it's possible to say what she would or wouldn't do if she had any measure of independence from her parents.

[valsa]

My cynical guess is that Michelle and Jim Bob are allowing her to do this until she gets married because it allows the next generation of female Duggars (and male Duggars' wives) to save money by not having to hire a non-relative midwife for home births. Just call in Auntie Jill and save the difference!

[Witsec7]

My cynical guess is that Michelle and Jim Bob are allowing her to do this until she gets married because it allows the next generation of female Duggars (and male Duggars' wives) to save money by not having to hire a non-relative midwife for home births. Just call in Auntie Jill and save the difference!

I do think this is the real reason behind it all.

[terranova]

I want her involved in something she truly loves and has chosen to do even if it does involve childcare or childbirth.

:clap: :clap:

[ElphabaGalinda]

I do think this is the real reason behind it all.

I agree, that's probably the main reason. There's also the added benefit of the fact that when critics say they don't allow their daughters to do anything other than take care of their siblings and wait for husbands they can say "not true, we allowed Jill to have a job"...no matter how approved or how little education it actually requires. That and they need at least one spinster daughter to care for the remaining little kids, and eventually Jim Bob and Jichelle in old age. I'm thinking Jill might be the daughter who's "called" to never marry.

[Katiebug]

(I know some won't agree, but...)

Disaster in the making. FWIW I am completely in support of certified (highly educated) nurse midwives and totally opposed to "lay" midwifery.

Too many years as a healthcare professional; I have seen too much.

Also FWIW, I think she is intelligent enough to become a certified nurse midwife, but it would take some major filling in of huge gaps in her education first.

Not a health professional, but I'm also in favor of CNMs and very against lay midwives. The licensing requirement to be a lay midwife in Arkansas is pitiful. To be blunt, I'd never put my life and my baby's life in the hands of someone who may have only attended 20 births as a primary midwife, virtually all of which would be low risk (i.e. she might not really know how to handle an emergency like shoulder dystocia or postpartum hemorrhage). An OBGYN resident or CNM student sees that many deliveries in a month or two and odds are a couple of them will have complications to manage. Those people have a medical or nursing background and their training programs run regular drills for those kinds of emergencies so that when they happen, instinct takes over. A homebirth with a CNM is a totally different ball of wax than one with a lay midwife.

I think Jill would find fulfillment as an RN working labor & delivery, or going on to become a CNM. She seems so genuinely happy in those pictures from Facebook. She'd need a couple of years at a community college to take all of the prereqs and go to nursing school, and that's clearly not going to happen when she's under the thumb of her parents. Maybe after a couple of years of lay midwifery experience she'll be able to broach the subject of going to nursing school.

[marmalade]

I agree, that's probably the main reason. There's also the added benefit of the fact that when critics say they don't allow their daughters to do anything other than take care of their siblings and wait for husbands they can say "not true, we allowed Jill to have a job"...no matter how approved or how little education it actually requires. That and they need at least one spinster daughter to care for the remaining little kids, and eventually Jim Bob and Jichelle in old age. I'm thinking Jill might be the daughter who's "called" to never marry.

I sort of said all of that about 10 posts ago. :mrgreen:

[JenniferJuniper]

Boob was talking about the girls becoming midwives years ago. He'd rattled off a list of occupations his children might be interested in, and then added something like "oh, and the girls might become midwives".

It's that or stay home with the bratty boys and the J-tots and wait for her idiot father to find someone for her to marry so she can start breeding her own. And it's so sad that Boob believes his daughters, regardless of their talents, interests, or personality types, should only be allowed lives that revolve solely around child bearing and child raising.

These people do not see women as full human beings. Period. Which I want to smack their leg humping supporters and look forward to the day when one of Boob's kids breaks free and writes that tell-all about him and the lifestyle he imposed upon his family. Because it will happen. Sooner or later.

[Turtle]

Not a health professional, but I'm also in favor of CNMs and very against lay midwives. The licensing requirement to be a lay midwife in Arkansas is pitiful. To be blunt, I'd never put my life and my baby's life in the hands of someone who may have only attended 20 births as a primary midwife, virtually all of which would be low risk (i.e. she might not really know how to handle an emergency like shoulder dystocia or postpartum hemorrhage). An OBGYN resident or CNM student sees that many deliveries in a month or two and odds are a couple of them will have complications to manage. Those people have a medical or nursing background and their training programs run regular drills for those kinds of emergencies so that when they happen, instinct takes over. A homebirth with a CNM is a totally different ball of wax than one with a lay midwife.

I think Jill would find fulfillment as an RN working labor & delivery, or going on to become a CNM. She seems so genuinely happy in those pictures from Facebook. She'd need a couple of years at a community college to take all of the prereqs and go to nursing school, and that's clearly not going to happen when she's under the thumb of her parents. Maybe after a couple of years of lay midwifery experience she'll be able to broach the subject of going to nursing school.

I'm also in favor of CNM and very very against lay midwives or CPM. One bad situation and her happy little bubble will pop.

The "trust birth" attitude that many lay midwives/homebirthers have combined with "trust God" fundie attitude is a recipe for disaster.

[JenniferJuniper]

I'm also in favor of CNM and very very against lay midwives or CPM. One bad situation and her happy little bubble will pop.

The "trust birth" attitude that many lay midwives/homebirthers have combined with "trust God" fundie attitude is a recipe for disaster.

"Trust God and save the difference!"

Jill is deeply naive, almost to the point of being child-like. She seemed very shaken by Michelle's miscarriage and is probably not emotionally equipped to handle an adverse situation. Couple that with a lack of education, and I agree, a very bad recipe.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

So is Jill allowed to get in a car, by herself, to attend births?? No Jana or Jessa or Jinger along to chaperone her? I'm more stunned by that than anything. I didn't think these people could go to Walmart for a bag of peas without someone there to be accountable for them.

And I'll just slap a "ditto" onto all the posts wishing she could become an actual CNM.

And something tells me Boob will be keeping her money "safe" for her eventual transfer of authority. I highly doubt she gets to put it all in her own bank account.

[lilwriter85]

I just keep having the feeling that she's going to be the Sarah Maxwell of this family, and will actually be able to pursue a degree. These families seem to keep one at home who will be the caretaker of the parents in their dotage and move in with Smuggar once Boob/Mullet can no longer be trusted to be alone when Jill is out on a call.

I'd rather her do this and have an actual career than be married off into the cult. She's already working under the supervision of another fundie (I wonder if they can request their supervisor, or if being paired with this Vanessa person was pure luck - and the only reason Jill could continue). If she couldn't continue due to having a heathen supervisor, she's the one making the Duggar Kool-Aid these days, and if Boob actually married her off (doubtful, but never say never), she'd be in line to have a ton of kids and no career. If something happens to any of the girls' husbands, who takes care of them? JD? Joseph? I name them since I'm sure as the eldest, it's Smuggar's responsibility to take the parents in when that time comes.

I wish Sarah Maxwell was allowed to find a real path for herself, since it's obvious with the latest "about Sarah" entry that she is no longer waiting for a man; Steve won't allow her to leave. Even the Botkinettes have more relative freedom than the Miss Maxwells. By comparison, the Duggars look downright liberal and we all know how whackadoodle they are.

I have been wondering about that too and I think maybe Jill Boob was able to request the supervisor. I can see the Duggars going through lists of midwives and finding one that was suitable for their snowflake. I looked at Venessa's myspare page and she seems fundie lite. She attended a Christian high school and Oral Roberts University. She talked about watching TV shows on her myspace. Boob probably liked her because she didn't go to an ultra heathen public school.

[19 dogs and counting]

The US is unique in that we have a path to midwifery that tracks through nursing. It is not that abnormal to go directly to midwifery and not track through nursing. The US is the only nation that requires it and did so back early 1900s when OBs campaigned to wipe miwifery out of existance for the express purpose of channeling obstetrical work through doctors instead of the midwives women preferred to use for their care. The AMA forced midwives to track through nursing in a claim that it would make them somehow more legitimate...I know in Australia that to get into a midwifery program in University requires higher entrance exams than nursing. I also know there are still a few collegiate programs geared specifically towards midwifery and not this new fangled CNM concept..

Admittedly, I have done little research on this topic but I'm pretty sure we aren't the only country that has an RN based midwife track. I know of a couple of Carribean islands (St. Kitts and Nevis to be exact) and the UK all utilize the RN-midwife track. I don't really understand the fear of nursing dogma when it comes to midwifery. Nursing would seem to be an essential foundation to almost any health related post grad because it gives you a broad foundation to build your specialty on. I understand that midwives were "non-medical" practitioners 100 years ago but does it really make sense to see it in the same way today? What am I missing?