NR-Anna might be in labor!

[kb2]

There's another post with a picture of an "It's a boy!" sign on their mailbox, and a promise of details at noon central (about an hour from this post).

Yep, milking it.

[uber frau]

Yes, but it's the most exciting thing that's happened since Bethany was born. They might even get to eat animal crackers tonight.

[Daenerys]

It's the baby I am sad for.... I don't doubt there will be fans shopping for blue plumbing line to send as gifts, as we speak....

Haha what blue-themed item should freejingerites send as a counter-attack?

[holothuroidea]

Haha what blue-themed item should freejingerites send as a counter-attack?

I tried really hard to come up with something funny but I just can't. I don't think there's really a counter-attack for child abuse other than educating the parents but I think these parents are probably ineducable on the matter.

[SisiL78]

An exceptionally sweet child . . .

But with a bitter aftertaste!!! (I know some people don't taste it but I do, blech!)

Poor kid to be born to this family regardless of the name. I hope both children are born with defiant spirits that will reject all their grandpa has to say.

[Bethella]

I tried really hard to come up with something funny but I just can't. I don't think there's really a counter-attack for child abuse other than educating the parents but I think these parents are probably ineducable on the matter.

We could send baby-sized blue Easter bunny costumes.

[icecreamycakeycake]

Yes, I did a search. Could someone explain the "non-reversal" name? I keep thinking I would get it in context, but I'm still clueless.

plzkthx!

[Guest Anonymous]

Anna, John, Joseph, Jesse and Mary are known as the 'reversal' children because Steve saw the errors of his vasectomy and had a reversal in order to fill his quiver and cure Teri's depression.

'Anna Marie' was actually known simply as Anna before her courtship to Christopher. The Maxwells changed her name to Anna Marie because they already had an Anna.... (they also changed her sister Sarah's name to "Gracie" for the same reason...).

So to hit back, we started to differentiate between the two Annas by whether or not their father was known to have had a reversal procedure....

edited to remove rogue apostrophe

[sippin0nsunshine]

Yes, I did a search. Could someone explain the "non-reversal" name? I keep thinking I would get it in context, but I'm still clueless.

plzkthx!

Sarah refers to her younger siblings as "the reversal babies" because they were born after Steve's vasectomy reversal. NR Anna was born before Steve's reversal, and so we don't confuse her with R-Anna, she's called NR Anna.

Oops, Cross posted with anniec :)

[Markie]

Steve Maxwell had a vasectomy after Sarah - they had 3 kids and were content to have that be their family, plus, Teri was suffering from depression. Then Steve finds religion and decides they should be Quiverful so he had a reversal and the rest of the Maxwell kids are "Reversal Children" - coined by Sarah, I think. Rather than call Chris' wife Anna, the Maxwells have changed her name to Anna Marie. FJs felt that it sucked that the girl cannot even have her own first name, simply because there's another Anna Maxwell. We refer to Anna Maxwell (daughter) as Reversal Anna, and Anna Maxwell (wife) as Non-Reversal Anna or NR Anna.

[Hane]

Sarah refers to her younger siblings as "the reversal babies" because they were born after Steve's vasectomy reversal.

You mean, Steve and Teri actually discussed the intricacies of their reproductive life with their kids? Whoa.

When my daughter was old enough to discuss such things, I explained why her stepfather and I had never had kids together (he'd had a vasectomy long before I met him). Her response: "Oh. I just thought that you didn't 'do it'...often."

[terranova]

Do we know for sure that the Maxwell's use TTUAC?

[ChickeyMonkey]

How completely irritating to have your SIL monitor your pregnancy and labor, and then post it on the internet for all the world to know. Anna is a private person, isn't that what her cousin said on here? I just find it completely annoying to have someone else insert herself into another woman's pregnancy and labor like that. Just cuz she's your SIL doesn't mean you have an all-access pass to her life and goings on!

And really? Calling her Anna Marie because your younger sister is Anna, too? Like we won't know which Anna is pregnant and going into labor? Bitch please.

[moreorlessnu]

Anna looks great, and happy.

[kpmom]

And really? Calling her Anna Marie because your younger sister is Anna, too? Like we won't know which Anna is pregnant and going into labor? Bitch please.

Preach it, Sister!

[Guest Anonymous]

Do we know for sure that the Maxwell's use TTUAC?

We don't know for sure that they currently use it, but I think they mentioned the Pearls in earlier Corners/Blogs, when the children were young.

I think Jinger Freah, the FJer who attended a conference undercover, said that Steve smacked his hands together as if to mimic spanking, when talking about 'consequences' for 'bad' behaviour.

Also, as mentioned on another thread yesterday, the Maxwells still promote on their site an If/Then Behaviour chart, which lists unwanted behaviours and alongside them a bible verse and consequence the child will receive. At least one of the verses suggests violence as a consequence, and the chart comes with cut and paste 'sticks' that presumably indicate how many times the parent will hit the child, for each unwanted behaviour.

http://www.cafemom.com/journals/read/11 ... Then_Chart

Proverbs 18.6 King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.

(New International Version (©1984)

A fool's lips bring him strife, and his mouth invites a beating.)

[WanderingStar]

We don't know for sure that they currently use it, but I think they mentioned the Pearls in earlier Corners/Blogs, when the children were young.

I think Jinger Freah, the FJer who attended a conference undercover, said that Steve smacked his hands together as if to mimic spanking, when talking about 'consequences' for 'bad' behaviour.

Also, as mentioned on another thread yesterday, the Maxwells still promote on their site an If/Then Behaviour chart, which lists unwanted behaviours and alongside them a bible verse and consequence the child will receive. At least one of the verses suggests violence as a consequence, and the chart comes with cut and paste 'sticks' that presumably indicate how many times the parent will hit the child, for each unwanted behaviour.

http://www.cafemom.com/journals/read/11 ... Then_Chart

To be perfectly honest, I actually really like the If-Then chart. The chart comes with pre-printed Bible verses but the consequences are totally up to the parent/teacher (plus if you didn't want the Bible verses they could always be crossed out). Most spankings and beatings are done in anger so for a parent who is prone to short tempers but is anti-spanking, being able to refer to the chart, with appropriate consequences thought out and written down when calm and collected, could keep them from being able to spank their child even if they really feel like doing so. It also helps with consistency on both the parent and child's part, so if a child whines or complains, both of them know he is to be given more work and he won't be confused by wavering discipline from a frazzled parent.

Doorposts, the company that produces the If-Then chart also has a Blessings chart that they encourage to be used together with it. As you can imagine, it's the same premise, but instead lists rewards for encouraged behaviors or good deeds. Of course, I'm sure the Maxwells would have diddly-squat to do with that chart, as absolute saintliness is expected at all times...oh, plus it's described on Doorposts' website as the "fun chart".

Anyway, despite a lifestyle I'd wish on no one, congrats to them on the new addition. Anna looks radiant and genuinely joyful and Joshua appears to be very healthy, despite being a bit "overcooked". :)

[fundifugee]

I am a bit envious of women who look beautiful and happy after birthing (especially such a big baby!) My post-partum photos I look totally freaked out, and it is obvious I was thinking something along the lines of 'holy crap, in what universe was this a good idea to have babies come out like this AND to trust ME with one of them???!!!"

[Guest Anonymous]

To be perfectly honest, I actually really like the If-Then chart. The chart comes with pre-printed Bible verses but the consequences are totally up to the parent/teacher (plus if you didn't want the Bible verses they could always be crossed out). Most spankings and beatings are done in anger so for a parent who is prone to short tempers but is anti-spanking, being able to refer to the chart, with appropriate consequences thought out and written down when calm and collected, could keep them from being able to spank their child even if they really feel like doing so. It also helps with consistency on both the parent and child's part, so if a child whines or complains, both of them know he is to be given more work and he won't be confused by wavering discipline from a frazzled parent.

Doorposts, the company that produces the If-Then chart also has a Blessings chart that they encourage to be used together with it. As you can imagine, it's the same premise, but instead lists rewards for encouraged behaviors or good deeds. Of course, I'm sure the Maxwells would have diddly-squat to do with that chart, as absolute saintliness is expected at all times...oh, plus it's described on Doorposts' website as the "fun chart".

Anyway, despite a lifestyle I'd wish on no one, congrats to them on the new addition. Anna looks radiant and genuinely joyful and Joshua appears to be very healthy, despite being a bit "overcooked". :)

The idea of linking behaviour to consequences (positive and negative) did not come from the Doorpost people though - it came from psychologists, whom the fundies don't believe in, and was taken and twisted into a fundie beatings chart. Yes of course you can cross out the bible verses and bin the hitting-stick stickers, in the same way that you can rip out the pages about spanking out of the Pearl book. But the point is, the chart encourages violence towards children and is intended to schedule it into children's lives.

[lilwriter85]

We could send baby-sized blue Easter bunny costumes.

That would be cute and fun. But cute and fun things are sins in the eyes of the Maxwells.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

The idea of linking behaviour to consequences (positive and negative) did not come from the Doorpost people though - it came from psychologists, whom the fundies don't believe in, and was taken and twisted into a fundie beatings chart. Yes of course you can cross out the bible verses and bin the hitting-stick stickers, in the same way that you can rip out the pages about spanking out of the Pearl book. But the point is, the chart encourages violence towards children and is intended to schedule it into children's lives.

Yeah. Amazingly enough, there are some things I actually agree with the Maxwells on about scheduling and studying and things like that, but (1) it's not anything they made up, (2) my goals are completely different from theirs as far as WHAT we are doing on our schedule, and (3) I find all the Bible trappings an annoyance to just skim over, whereas for the Maxwell books and products, they are the MAIN thing (the whole point is to show people how the Bible supports these various methods, to give scriptural backing for them).

The Maxwells have talked about blanket training before, and they've mentioned Wisdom booklets.

If you read various reviews of MOTH and the scheduling products on sites NOT controlled by the family, the reviews are mixed, but there are lot of people saying that they appreciate the nuts-and-bolts ideas about scheduling, and realizing how scheduling can be FREEING in a way (I'm regimented naturally, so I agree with that part for myself) but that they cannot support the idea of scheduling babies. The Maxwell schedules have baby schedules, and talk about scheduling babies, including for feeding and the rest. Lots of people were disturbed and basically say, well, get the book if you want but just ignore that part.

So, beatings (or not) aside, the idea that a baby should learn self-denial right away is built into it, and given religious backing.

As for the charts - now that you've seen evidence of them on someone's blog, you can of course DIY and just make your own without any Bible verses on them to begin with! That's the thing with so much of this material - if you're looking to be encouraged that all this is "Biblical," then it's worth buying the books for that. Otherwise none of the ideas are particularly rocket science, and you can easily DIY with a trip to the office supply store.

[Guest Anonymous]

As for the charts - now that you've seen evidence of them on someone's blog, you can of course DIY and just make your own without any Bible verses on them to begin with!

Haha, not on the Maxwell's site though. On the Doorposts website the charts are photographed normally and on some listings they acknowledge that you could make the stuff yourself, but that they are providing an option to buy if you want it ready made. The Maxwells photoshopped the original image though and obscured it, so you have to pay your $6 to see the words. :lol:

#tightarse2

[Bethella]

That would be cute and fun. But cute and fun things are sins in the eyes of the Maxwells.

I thought that was the point, to drive Steve crazy so the others would have a chance to escape. :D

[WanderingStar]

Yeah. Amazingly enough, there are some things I actually agree with the Maxwells on about scheduling and studying and things like that, but (1) it's not anything they made up, (2) my goals are completely different from theirs as far as WHAT we are doing on our schedule, and (3) I find all the Bible trappings an annoyance to just skim over, whereas for the Maxwell books and products, they are the MAIN thing (the whole point is to show people how the Bible supports these various methods, to give scriptural backing for them).

The Maxwells have talked about blanket training before, and they've mentioned Wisdom booklets.

If you read various reviews of MOTH and the scheduling products on sites NOT controlled by the family, the reviews are mixed, but there are lot of people saying that they appreciate the nuts-and-bolts ideas about scheduling, and realizing how scheduling can be FREEING in a way (I'm regimented naturally, so I agree with that part for myself) but that they cannot support the idea of scheduling babies. The Maxwell schedules have baby schedules, and talk about scheduling babies, including for feeding and the rest. Lots of people were disturbed and basically say, well, get the book if you want but just ignore that part.

So, beatings (or not) aside, the idea that a baby should learn self-denial right away is built into it, and given religious backing.

As for the charts - now that you've seen evidence of them on someone's blog, you can of course DIY and just make your own without any Bible verses on them to begin with! That's the thing with so much of this material - if you're looking to be encouraged that all this is "Biblical," then it's worth buying the books for that. Otherwise none of the ideas are particularly rocket science, and you can easily DIY with a trip to the office supply store.

I hope you guys don't think I'm actually a fan of the real chart, because I'm not. I meant to say that I'm more in love with the idea behind the chart since it's an easy way to keep consequences consistent and hopefully deter people who may be a bit rage-prone (like me, unfortunately!) from either physically lashing out at their child so quickly or from prescribing an unnaturally long punishment in correlation with their misbehavior (for example, grounding them for two weeks because they refused to help clear the table). Believe me when I say that I do have a problem with the various verses and proverbs in the Bible being used to aid in punishment or even worse, in abuse. Proverbs 18:6, for example, the verse that calls to give strikes for foolish words, doesn't say that it should be applied to children as well or that they should be literal strikes. As they are simply proverbs, they are not even meant to be carried out literally. "Loose lips sink ships" might've applied to a real ship at one point but it doesn't mean that an actual boat is going to start going down if you accidentally reveal top secret information that you shouldn't have. Of course, it doesn't work that way in Fundieland. I know the Maxwells couldn't correctly define "metaphorical" if their lives depended on it and almost every word is taken at face value.

I think what I was trying to get at was that if the Maxwells and the owners of Doorposts can use a simple concept like a consequences chart and twist it to push doctrine onto their children and try to justify spanking or beating them, we in turn can use something similar to make sure that we don't make the same mistakes with our children and that they turn out much happier and well-adjusted while still knowing the rules and functioning well in society. I don't have children yet but will probably use my own modified, much cheaper version of the chart (six dollars for something I can make in Microsoft Excel? No way!) as I have a feeling I might have trouble being consistent with them. Mine won’t include Bible verses either since I really don’t want my kids viewing the Bible as something bad if they are considering Christianity one day. Some of the Doorposts misbehaviors such as church irreverence are irrelevant anyway now that I think about it, I currently don’t attend church and it’ll be a choice I leave up to my children. If they do act up in church I will probably address it the same way I would with public defiance in general, not trying to shame them about acting up in “God’s house†if they don’t even believe it’s God’s house.

I rambled on a bit too long as usual but hopefully I made myself clearer that I’m not encouraging anyone to waste their money on that chart but promote the basic idea behind it. :P

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I hope you guys don't think I'm actually a fan of the real chart, because I'm not. I meant to say that I'm more in love with the idea behind the chart since it's an easy way to keep consequences consistent and hopefully deter people who may be a bit rage-prone (like me, unfortunately!) from either physically lashing out at their child so quickly or from prescribing an unnaturally long punishment in correlation with their misbehavior (for example, grounding them for two weeks because they refused to help clear the table)... I think what I was trying to get at was that if the Maxwells and the owners of Doorposts can use a simple concept like a consequences chart and twist it to push doctrine onto their children and try to justify spanking or beating them, we in turn can use something similar to make sure that we don't make the same mistakes with our children and that they turn out much happier and well-adjusted while still knowing the rules and functioning well in society.

Nah - I think we "like" the chart (more like the idea!) for the same reasons. I agree with you.

What the Maxwells (and that other company too, quite possibly if they're selling the thing with the Bible quotes and rods) are selling is the wrapper around it, saying it's godly and putting the fundie spin on. Their "main thing" is the part I specifically don't need, so no need to buy from them! I can make my own chart with my own consequences on it and there will not be rods involved. Nor will there be Bible verses.