60 Day Juice Fast?

[B5SnowDog]

No, I don't. Ongoing is continuous. "Several" is not ongoing nor continuous.

But it is a pattern. Your husband has a pattern of abusive behavior. He could've killed your child with that golf club; that goes far beyond spanking with an open hand. All it takes is for him to lose control one more time. Ask yourself - do you honestly believe that he can control his behavior perfectly? If he can't control himself perfectly for the rest of his life, you could lose a child.

[Koala]

Several times my husband has hit our youngest with objects because he got so angry with him.

He smacked him once on the leg with the tv remote and with his hand.

Who hits a kid with the handle part of a golf club?

my husband grabbed the end you hit the ball with and smacked him on the thigh with the handle part

I can't make you believe he's not a horrible abuser who always hits his kids when he gets angry.

No ChickeyMonkey, you're right. I do believe he's an abuser. He has hit your baby with objects several times. One of those objects was a golf club, another was a remote. I've asked twice, but you won't even list the other objects that helped comprise the "several" times you are referring to. He may not hit him every time he's angry, but the fact that he's hit him with objects "several" times establishes a pattern of abuse. He has upped the ante so far that you don't even seem that concerned about the time he hit him with a remote. Reread these comments:

He smacked him once on the leg with the tv remote and with his hand. That's not a heavy object.

The golf club was a shock to me.

Do you see what happened? First of all, the behavior escalated. First he hit him with remote or some other unnamed object. Then he hit him with a golf club, and in light of that the remote doesn't seem like hardly anything to you. In the meantime your baby is being hit "several times" with objects.

Is it so hard to believe my husband can change? Is it because he's a man that it's difficult to believe?

Yes, because he went as far as to hit a baby with a golf club, it is very hard to believe he just up and changed. No, it has nothing to do with him being a man. It has everything to do with the fact that he's hit your baby multiple times.

He has changed.

I get that you think he's changed, but for the safety of both of your children, he needs professional help. When a doctor tells you he's better, you will have a foundation for your assertion that "he's changed".

we are all OK.

Again, just going to quote you,so that perhaps you will see why the above statement is hard to believe.

Several times my husband has hit our youngest with objects because he got so angry with him.

Who hits a kid with the handle part of a golf club?

Our son was 2.5 years old at the time.

It's bad enough that the youngest hits, too

we are all OK.

Can you understand why I have a hard time believing that?

[Stickers]

ChickeyMonkey, how could him seeking help hurt the situation? It sounds like he needs to learn how to deal with anger because putting the kids always when he gets upset with them is not him changing.

[ChickeyMonkey]

ChickeyMonkey, how could him seeking help hurt the situation? It sounds like he needs to learn how to deal with anger because putting the kids always when he gets upset with them is not him changing.

No, the youngest gets put in his room when he's having a tantrum, being mean to his brother, screaming, things like that. He can scream and cry in his room, and when he's calmed down, he comes out and says sorry. So far it's worked. He has his space to scream and cry without hurting or bothering others, and when he's done having his fit he can rejoin everyone else.

As for my husband, when the youngest is getting to be too much, he walks into another room to cool off. How is that bad?

[Vex]

I think I understand where ChickeyMonkey is coming from.

My dad has an explosive temper. He has hit me in the face a few times in my life, and once it gave me a bloody nose. It was out of pure anger, but I know he regretted it and he is not abusive. It sounds terrible to anyone on the outside, but he's not a violent person in general. He has never hit my mother, and he hasn't hit me in about 11 years. I know that sometimes when I really piss him off he's barely restraining himself, but he restrains himself. Just for the record, if he hit me at this stage (since I'm now an adult) I would demand he see a psychiatrist or I would report him for assault to the police.

Maybe I'm wrong, or in denial, but I do believe that you can do things a few times and then learn on your own that it's not acceptable and change. Chickey's husband hasn't hit the other kids or her. She made it clear to him that what he did was unacceptable and it hasn't happened since, but if it did continue to happen I think she'd realise he had a problem and take whatever steps she needed to in order to take care of the children.

[ChickeyMonkey]

I think I understand where ChickeyMonkey is coming from.

My dad has an explosive temper. He has hit me in the face a few times in my life, and once it gave me a bloody nose. It was out of pure anger, but I know he regretted it and he is not abusive. It sounds terrible to anyone on the outside, but he's not a violent person in general. He has never hit my mother, and he hasn't hit me in about 11 years. I know that sometimes when I really piss him off he's barely restraining himself, but he restrains himself. Just for the record, if he hit me at this stage (since I'm now an adult) I would demand he see a psychiatrist or I would report him for assault to the police.

Maybe I'm wrong, or in denial, but I do believe that you can do things a few times and then learn on your own that it's not acceptable and change. Chickey's husband hasn't hit the other kids or her. She made it clear to him that what he did was unacceptable and it hasn't happened since, but if it did continue to happen I think she'd realise he had a problem and take whatever steps she needed to in order to take care of the children.

Vex, you are correct. The incidents were not the norm and have not happened again. His MO is usually to just be angry quietly and leave the area for awhile (go into the bedroom or backroom or backyard and do something) and then it's over. He loves our kids and has committed to not acting out in anger again.

[Vex]

My dad does the same thing. It's a bit childish - he slams doors and storms out - but he will walk away from the situation. If he can't for some reason, he will take a moment to inhale and exhale slowly and get a grip and find an appropriate way of venting at a later point by taking a bike ride or something. He knows hitting isn't the answer.

[Koala]

No, the youngest gets put in his room when he's having a tantrum, being mean to his brother, screaming, things like that. He can scream and cry in his room, and when he's calmed down, he comes out and says sorry. So far it's worked. He has his space to scream and cry without hurting or bothering others, and when he's done having his fit he can rejoin everyone else.

As for my husband, when the youngest is getting to be too much, he walks into another room to cool off. How is that bad?

What I hear you saying is that your are trying to control your husband's violence by not allowing the 2 year old to "push" him to the point of snapping. What I am saying is that 1, it's your husband who has the real problem, not your baby, and 2 one day he may decide he doesn't want to stay in his room. He might walk out and refuse to go back. Then what?

I don't think it's "bad" for your husband to walk into another room and cool off when he gets to the breaking point. I do think it's "bad" that you as a mother aren't requiring him (at the very minimum) to get professional help after he hit your baby with a golf club and other objects. It leaves me wondering what he has to do for you to take some kind of action.

[Koala]

My dad has an explosive temper. He has hit me in the face a few times in my life, and once it gave me a bloody nose. It was out of pure anger, but I know he regretted it and he is not abusive. It sounds terrible to anyone on the outside, but he's not a violent person in general.

If your dad has an explosive temper that has led to him hitting you in the face and giving you a bloody nose then he is violent and abusive. It does not matter that it was done in anger. It matters that he became physically violent to the point of hitting you in the face and bloodying your nose.

Just for the record, if he hit me at this stage (since I'm now an adult) I would demand he see a psychiatrist or I would report him for assault to the police.

That's a strange thought to me. I've never understood why an adult that hits a child can be "not violent or abusive", but an adult who hits another adult needs to see a psychiatrist or be put in jail. Why doesn't an adult that hits a child need to see a psychiatrist or be put in jail?

Chickey's husband hasn't hit the other kids or her. She made it clear to him that what he did was unacceptable and it hasn't happened since, but if it did continue to happen I think she'd realise he had a problem and take whatever steps she needed to in order to take care of the children.

No, Chickey's husband just hits their 2 year old. With objects like golf clubs. Does that not qualify as a problem?

And just to be honest I am not counting on Chickey's disapproval to be enough to dissuade this guy the next time he loses his temper. It's not like he's going to be sitting there saying, "Gee, I'm half tempted to hit him with a golf club again, but I don't think my wife would approve, and she's told be not to do it again."

For christ's sake we are talking about a man that hit his baby with a golf club.

[Jezebel]

As for my husband, when the youngest is getting to be too much, he walks into another room to cool off. How is that bad?

What strikes me as "bad" about that is that one day he may be faced with a situation where leaving the room is simply not possible, and he has to deal with his anger in a constructive way while handling the situation. What will he do, then?

When I was young, I had serious problems with anger--I got it from my dad, who used to go into terrifying rages. Hell, we jokingly called those rages "the Murphy fits" because they were such an ingrained part of our family dysfunction, and had been for at least three generations.

I didn't have kids, but I would end up screaming at people, or saying horrible, cutting things. I always regretted it afterwards, and apologized when I could, but my deep-seated anger, and my inability to manage it, really damaged my relationships with other people.

Learning to leave the room when I felt a "Murphy fit" coming on was an improvement, but it was not a solution. It merely allowed me to take my anger elsewhere--it did nothing to address why I was so angry in the first place. And I could go into rages over things that absolutely did not warrant it--a store moving everything around; a waitress who was a little bit slow; perceived disrespect, no matter how slight. A toddler exhibiting typical toddler behavior--defiance, stubbornness, testing boundaries--would have triggered rages, too. It's just as well I never wanted or had kids, because I know I would have hurt them emotionally, if not physically.

What I had to learn to do was recognize when the rage was building, stop, and ask myself, "Why am I getting so angry over this?" Because while a certain amount of frustration or annoyance may have been appropriate, the level of anger that made leaving the room advisable was not. And I had to accept that I was not angry because of someone else's behavior, but rather because I had my own issues that needed to be addressed. In my particular case, it stemmed from my relationship with my father, where I was regularly belittled, made to look stupid, mocked if I didn't know something (usually something far beyond my age level or experience), and generally treated as if I didn't really matter and was unworthy of respect. I spent my entire childhood dreading the next put-down and angry at the unfairness of it--and I unwittingly carried that into my adulthood.

So going into a store and finding everything had been moved around triggered rages because it put me in a position of ignorance--I didn't know where things were, and was angry that I had to ask for help, because according to my father, only stupid, unobservant people needed to ask for help. Asking a clerk, "Where did the paint section move to?" was a level of vulnerability I just could not deal with, so I'd get angry.

The waitress who was slow or the bank teller who was sullen weren't simply overworked people having an "off" day; they had, in my mind, judged me unworthy of good service or basic courtesy, just as my father judged me unworthy of favorable treatment. So *BOOM!* Raaaage!

And I can imagine that an unruly, uncooperative toddler would have sparked a fit because I would have taken normal toddler behavior as disrespect and ill-treatment on the same level as I would for an adult. My anger, when triggered, was that irrational.

Leaving the room isn't solving your husband's real problem--which is that he's getting so angry that he needs to leave the room in the first place. Your toddler's behavior may be obnoxious, and he may be defiant, but it's triggering an anger response in your husband that is completely out of proportion to what is actually happening. A parent without that kind of trigger would be able to tell themselves, "Okay, he's having a typical toddler meltdown; this isn't personal," and just deal with it.

So your husband's real task is to figure out what his particular anger-buttons are, and understand why his kid's behavior pushes them so hard. What underlying doubts and insecurities about respect, control, and competency does he have? Because he's got them, and they're getting triggered by your kid's behavior. If he can recognize that when it's happening, he can de-fuse the anger before it has a chance to build, and not have to leave the room to "cool off."

He may need a counselor or therapist of some sort to walk him through that process (though it's possible to do it alone; I did). But honestly--he would benefit tremendously by getting to the root of his anger and learning to consciously manage it as it arises. I have, and not only have I stopped throwing "Murphy fits," but my overall stress and anxiety levels are nothing compared to what they were. I look back at how I used to be, and I wonder how I used to live like that--it was difficult and exhausting and everything felt like such a struggle. Everyone was a potential adversary, I was constantly ready to defend myself against disrespect, and the rage was always there, even if it was below the surface. Changing was hard because in order to do it I had to admit just how hurt I was and how crazy my thought processes could be, but it's absolutely been worth it. So yes, I would urge your husband to get some help in facing the real roots of his anger, so he never has to walk away from his kids for fear of harming them again.

[ChickeyMonkey]

What I hear you saying is that your are trying to control your husband's violence by not allowing the 2 year old to "push" him to the point of snapping. What I am saying is that 1, it's your husband who has the real problem, not your baby, and 2 one day he may decide he doesn't want to stay in his room. He might walk out and refuse to go back. Then what?

I don't think it's "bad" for your husband to walk into another room and cool off when he gets to the breaking point. I do think it's "bad" that you as a mother aren't requiring him (at the very minimum) to get professional help after he hit your baby with a golf club and other objects. It leaves me wondering what he has to do for you to take some kind of action.

I'm not trying to control my husband's violence by removing the child so he doesn't push him to the point of snapping. It's a time out for the child to be in his own space to cool off, tantrum, whatever, until he's gotten it out of his system while not subjecting everyone else to his screeching and screaming. If he comes out and isn't done with his tantrum, I pick him up and put him back in his room on his bed. It has nothing to do with my husband and everything to do with our son going to a place to calm down. I don't think I was clear about that before. Sorry.

[B5SnowDog]

If the time-outs aren't being used to control your husband's violence, what is controlling it?

[Koala]

I'm not trying to control my husband's violence by removing the child so he doesn't push him to the point of snapping. It's a time out for the child to be in his own space to cool off, tantrum, whatever, until he's gotten it out of his system while not subjecting everyone else to his screeching and screaming. If he comes out and isn't done with his tantrum, I pick him up and put him back in his room on his bed. It has nothing to do with my husband and everything to do with our son going to a place to calm down. I don't think I was clear about that before. Sorry.

Okay, so you've found a way to calm the baby. Now what's being done to control the grown man that hit him with a golf club? Why aren't you insisting he get professional help? What exactly does he have to do to that baby before it becomes a pattern in your mind? He's hit him with "objects" "several" times. How many more will it take to equal a pattern?

[Koala]

ps. Please read this article: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/c ... 7.abstract

[Conuly]

Okay, so you've found a way to calm the baby. Now what's being done to control the grown man that hit him with a golf club? Why aren't you insisting he get professional help? What exactly does he have to do to that baby before it becomes a pattern in your mind? He's hit him with "objects" "several" times. How many more will it take to equal a pattern?

And if the kid is still only two, he can't have stopped all that long ago. This is not like you're saying "He hit the kid when he was two, which he regrets, but he hasn't done that since and now the kid is 16 and can't remember".

[Koala]

And if the kid is still only two, he can't have stopped all that long ago. This is not like you're saying "He hit the kid when he was two, which he regrets, but he hasn't done that since and now the kid is 16 and can't remember".

Exactly. Honestly I find it disturbing that more people aren't speaking up on behalf of this child. If that story had been posted on a fundie blog, people would have lost their minds.

[Witsec7]

Exactly. Honestly I find it disturbing that more people aren't speaking up on behalf of this child. If that story had been posted on a fundie blog, people would have lost their minds.

I'm leaving it to the folks who are thinking rationally.

I think the woman is crazy to be living with the guy, and I suggest that if he lets his temper get the best of him with a two year old, it's happened to the wife as well. She seems to waste a lot of fucking time defending her husband.

And now I'll close my post because I was hoping not to leave a string of epithets on this thread.

[Koala]

I suggest that if he lets his temper get the best of him with a two year old, it's happened to the wife as well. She seems to waste a lot of fucking time defending her husband.

That's a very real possibility. I had wondered myself.

[StarrieEyedKat]

Anytime someone says "It's not what you think" all I can mentally reply with is "It's usually exactly what people think."

Look, I've been there, dealing with loved ones that have disproportionate anger problems and they always regret taking it out on those around them that are vulnerable. I still love them, and I work to get them help, but I NEVER defend what they did, or try to rationalize it away. And I would never be so careless about the safety about my children and say "Oh, he hit my 2 year old with a golf club, but he's sorry and now when he gets that angry, he goes to the bedroom." No, sorry.

He needs to talk to someone to figure out why his child is sending him into such an angry place. I know 2-3 year olds are incredibly challenging, I have one myself - but it's not like they magically turn into the perfect child that's never going to be a brat. Your husband needs to learn how to deal with his emotions, just as much as your child does. Going somewhere else to cool off is a good start, but he still needs to see someone to figure out why a 2 year old is making him THAT angry.

ETA - And word Koala, if this were a fundie, heads would be rolling. Imagine Michael Pearl defending someone that hit a 2 year old with a golf club - insanity.

[Vex]

If your dad has an explosive temper that has led to him hitting you in the face and giving you a bloody nose then he is violent and abusive. It does not matter that it was done in anger. It matters that he became physically violent to the point of hitting you in the face and bloodying your nose.

He didn't hit me all that hard when he bloodied my nose or mean to strike me there, I just turned my head at the wrong moment and he got my nose rather than my cheek. I'm not saying it wasn't wrong, but he never left a mark on me. He's never hit another person in his life, and he hasn't hit me in 11 years. If he was genuinely abusive, he would have cracked me in the face rather than restraining himself all the other times I've really angered him - I've deliberately tried to provoke him into it when he's raised his hand to hit (thinking that when he calmed down I could use it to persuade him to get help) and he always backs down.

Abusive people always do it again, they don't change their own behaviour patterns without outside help.

That's a strange thought to me. I've never understood why an adult that hits a child can be "not violent or abusive", but an adult who hits another adult needs to see a psychiatrist or be put in jail. Why doesn't an adult that hits a child need to see a psychiatrist or be put in jail?

I don't think it's alright for people to hit children but not adults, but as a minor I wouldn't have been taken seriously by the police if I had reported being slapped in the face. Whatever your feelings are about people using their hands to discipline their children, it's generally still accepted and legal.

I wish my father would see a psychiatrist now, he needs to be on a different kind of antidepressant (one he can take all the time, he refuses to do so with his current one that his doctor prescribed him because it makes him apathetic) and he really needs counseling because of the inappropriate ways he handles stress and anger, but neither my mother or I can force him to do so. If he ever hit me again it would give me the leverage to push him into it.

No, Chickey's husband just hits their 2 year old. With objects like golf clubs. Does that not qualify as a problem? And just to be honest I am not counting on Chickey's disapproval to be enough to dissuade this guy the next time he loses his temper. It's not like he's going to be sitting there saying, "Gee, I'm half tempted to hit him with a golf club again, but I don't think my wife would approve, and she's told be not to do it again."

For christ's sake we are talking about a man that hit his baby with a golf club.

He hit him on the thigh with the handle. It's not as if he used his head as a ball with his 9 iron. He didn't leave a mark so it really couldn't have been very hard, and it happened one time.

Was that one time too many? Yes. Was it an inexcusable lapse in judgement? Absolutely. Of course it's a problem. But I believe that if he ever did anything like that again Chickey would be smart enough to see he had issues that needed to be addressed by a professional and would do whatever it took to keep her kids safe. She knows her husband, she witnessed the event, she knows how her child reacted. We don't know any of these things, we only know the barest details.

I'm not defending Chickey's husband or what he did. I'm giving Chickey the benefit of the doubt because I believe she knows the situation far better than anyone else does. My own situation is just analogous and allowed me to understand where she was coming from.

I do think that Chickey's husband would benefit from seeing a therapist because he evidently does have an anger management issue like my dad. I just disagree that hitting the child 3 times makes him an abuser at this stage. Are you saying my father physically abused me because he hit me a handful of times over the course of 16 or so years? That my mother (who saw what he did and never stood up for me - she thought I was deserving of it) was derelict in her duties because should have stopped him? My parents were hit by their parents. I wasn't an easy child sometimes. I disagree strongly with what they did but I understand why it happened.

Because, to me, her husband sounds just like my dad - someone who has issues with anger and has occasionally does the wrong thing and hit in anger, but it's not a regular pattern of behaviour. It doesn't make it okay, but it doesn't automatically make him an abuser. I've taken criminal psych classes and my father does not fit the profile or qualify as an abuser according to what I was taught.

[Witsec7]

I simply don't understand how any adult can rationalize hitting a child.

[B5SnowDog]

Are you saying my father physically abused me because he hit me a handful of times over the course of 16 or so years? That my mother (who saw what he did and never stood up for me - she thought I was deserving of it) was derelict in her duties because should have stopped him?

Yes and yes. You've normalized the abuse.

[Koala]

I'm going to be really honest with you Vex. It is unbelievable to me that you are trying to help this woman rationalize her son's abuse. There is a 2 year old that has been hit (by his father) with various objects. If you want to go through life trying to make what your father did to you seem okay, then that's fine by me, but for god's sake think before you try to rationalize the abuse of a 2 year old that has no ability to get up and walk away.

That said, I am going to go through your post and try to at least get a little clarity from it.

He didn't hit me all that hard when he bloodied my nose or mean to strike me there, I just turned my head at the wrong moment and he got my nose rather than my cheek.

I think the key phrase here is "when he bloodied my nose". You father was hitting you, and because his hit didn't land where he planned for it to, he bloodied your nose. His hit. He meant to hit you. It is his fault. It it not your fault for not holding your head completely still so he could strike you in the place he intended to.

He's never hit another person in his life

Hitting you was enough. You don't have to hit multiple people to be abusive.

Abusive people always do it again, they don't change their own behaviour patterns without outside help.

Would you like to go back and quote the number of times that Chickey has been encouraged to get professional help for her husband? Know why we keep telling her to do that? Because we're afraid he's going to hit that baby again. Notice how she hasn't posted how long it's been since he hit her son? I'm guessing that's because it really hasn't been all that long. It's a matter of time before this guy snaps again, and when he does that baby is going to be the one standing in his path. If you cared even a little bit about that you would stop trying to rationalize the father's behavior and tell this woman to force him to get help or get out.

Whatever your feelings are about people using their hands to discipline their children, it's generally still accepted and legal.

This man didn't hit his son with his hands. He hit him with a remote, a golf club, and other item(s) Chickey refuses to name. Why don't you walk into your local CPS agency and ask how "accepting" the are of 2 year olds being hit with golf clubs.

He hit him on the thigh with the handle. It's not as if he used his head as a ball with his 9 iron.

So it's okay to hit a baby with a golf club as long as it's with the handle and on the thigh? If not, what is your point?

He didn't leave a mark so it really couldn't have been very hard, and it happened one time.

First, please quote Chickey saying he didn't leave a mark. I may have missed it.

Secondly, please tell me what about the following statement implies "one time" to you:

Several times my husband has hit our youngest with objects because he got so angry with him.

I believe that if he ever did anything like that again Chickey would be smart enough to see he had issues that needed to be addressed by a professional and would do whatever it took to keep her kids safe.

Really? You must be pretty solid in that belief, or certainly you wouldn't be sitting here defending these people. How do you know Chickey IRL?

What I know of her is that her husband has hit her baby with objects "several times" and she has yet to seek outside intervention. That's kind of what some of us are encouraging her to do.

I just disagree that hitting the child 3 times makes him an abuser at this stage.

How many times does he need to hit him before he becomes an abuser?

Are you saying my father physically abused me because he hit me a handful of times over the course of 16 or so years?

Yes. Key phrase being "because he hit me".

That my mother (who saw what he did and never stood up for me - she thought I was deserving of it) was derelict in her duties because should have stopped him?

Yes. I have 2 children of my own. God help the person that ever even thought of laying a hand on my babies.

Because, to me, her husband sounds just like my dad - someone who has issues with anger and has occasionally does the wrong thing and hit in anger, but it's not a regular pattern of behaviour.

Yes, your father was abusive towards you and Chickey's husband is abusive to her son. If they sound a lot alike, that's because they have their violence towards their children in common.

As you've seen in the above quote, Chickey's husband has hit their 2 year old with objects "several times". Can you please tell me how many times would qualify as a pattern of behavior?

[formergothardite]

Chicky, do you ever leave your child alone with your husband? What would happen if you did and your son flipped out and lost it and you weren't there to make sure to keep them apart? If you husand has hit your child with a golf club in front of you, what would he do when you weren't there?

[Conuly]

Vex, your father hit you hard enough to break your nose. It doesn't matter that you turned your head, he was intending to hit your cheek with considerable force.

I'm not going to argue whether or not it's always abusive to hit your child, or whether one incident that's never repeated constitutes abuse. I mean, at that point we're going to get into pointless niggling semantics. I have my opinion, sure, but I find it's more helpful if I don't always tell people exactly what I'm thinking just because I'm thinking it.

I'm just going to point this out again: Your father, at least once, hit you with waaaaaay more force than could be seen as warranted by... just about anybody. Hitting your child hard enough to break their bones, even if that wasn't your intent and not where you were aiming and it's never ever repeated, is, I believe, legally considered abuse anywhere in the US.

The issue isn't whether or not hitting is always abusive in this case because even people who think it can (or should) be part of a discipline strategy don't generally think you should hit your child hard enough to break bones or using heavy objects. (And even the handle of a golf club is heavy, especially when compared to the fragility of a toddler.) They also, even the Pearls (who are evil) universally say you shouldn't hit your child in anger.

This also isn't even about whether getting really mad JUST ONCE in your life and hitting something is necessarily abusive, because in both cases you both admit that the hitting happened MORE than just once. There's a place for those two discussions, but since it doesn't apply that place is not here.

What we've got is Chickey's husband hitting his toddler multiple times (not sure how many times "several" is) in less than a two year period, at least once with a heavy object, out of anger. He says he has stopped, but as the kid is STILL a toddler we can't tell if he's really stopped for good. And we've got YOUR dad hitting you multiple times, at least once hard enough to break bones, out of anger.

Hitting. Out of anger. Multiple times. In a way that could or did cause injuries.

Yeah, I'd have to call that abusive.

People can be or seem to be good people and still do bad things. Your dad could have loved you and still been abusive, and he could've been really fun on game night and still been abusive, and he could be a terrific cook and still been abusive, and he could have completely changed his life and never done it again without negating the fact that, at one point, he was abusive. Chickey's husband might love teaching his kids, and genuinely enjoy taking them on trips, and he might make lots of money and clean the house as well... but that doesn't change what else he's done. Just wanting to change might be enough, but I wouldn't trust it.

This is what I don't get. Mostly we're not all telling Chickey "Ditch him and never look back, right now", we're saying "Tell your husband that he needs to get help learning how to control his anger and discipline his child without resorting to violence, so he has the positive skills to prevent from doing something he's going to regret". And she's going "oh, no no no, that's not necessary". Why? Seriously, WHY? How is it a bad thing to tell people that there's help out there they can benefit from?