60 Day Juice Fast?

[Gizmola]

No, Gizmola, I got your point. I don't think you understand that your father *did* cross a line just as you say my husband did.

Are you really this dense? The only way my father didn't cross any lines was that he didn't hit me or my brothers. Other lines? Of course he crossed them. Did you really think my story was told to extol my father's virtues??

Plus, I really hate your phrasing: "cross a line as you say my husband did." Shouldn't it be "cross a line just as my husband did?" You're still writing as someone making excuses for his behavior, rationalizing your previous claim of "several times" into "an isolated incident." Which is it? He hit your child WHICH IS CROSSING A LINE an isolated time or several times? Why is an isolated incident okay? If I had written that my father engaged in his behavior once would you tell me I was overreacting or would you still see the inappropriateness of his behavior? Why can you not see the inappropriateness of your husband's behavior? Why are you making excuses for him?

How is leaving the room to calm down somehow translate into he has to leave the room to control his anger? Isn't that one of the suggestions given as advice for parents? I think you think that every time my husband gets upset he gets into a dangerous rage. That's not true.

Because that's the way you described the situation. That, as an alternative to hitting your child with remote controls and golf clubs, your husband leaves the room. That indicates that he doesn't know how to control his anger in the presence of an unruly child. You're the one who said your husband has gotten angry enough to hit a baby with objects several times; why wouldn't I think he gets so upset he gets into a dangerous rage?

[Koala]

I know abusive parents can focus on one kid for the abuse and ignore the rest. That would be my brother and his dad.

Chickey, that would be your husband and your son as well. According to you he has hit your 2 year old multiple times, but hasn't hit you or your other child.

What *is* sufficient proof to show it was an isolated incident? That's an honest question.

This wasn't an isolated incident. You've clearly stated that he has hit him with objects several times.

An honest question would be us asking you how many more times he has to pick up an object and hit this baby before it becomes a pattern of abuse in your mind. What's the magic number? How many times does your baby have to be hit before you decide that he has to get help or get out?

Another would be us asking you how long he needs to get help since he's already had 6 months or more and hasn't done it yet.

How is leaving the room to calm down somehow translate into he has to leave the room to control his anger? Isn't that one of the suggestions given as advice for parents? I think you think that every time my husband gets upset he gets into a dangerous rage. That's not true.

It was you that suggested that your husband controls himself by leaving the room. If that's not how he controls his anger, then how does he do it?

No one said that every single time he gets upset he goes into a dangerous rage. What YOU'VE said is that he's hit him with objects (including a golf club) several times. Call me silly, but that's prompted me to worry that one of the times he completely flips out and starts hitting your son it might go really bad. It only takes once for a child to be severely injured or worse. Especially when it's toddler vs. grown man w/ golf club.

[Conuly]

What *is* sufficient proof to show it was an isolated incident? That's an honest question. All I'm hearing is that once is enough to brand a person an abuser for life.

Well, bare minimum, it'd have to happen no more than once. Too late for that! The person in question would have to show a real effort to learn better coping mechanisms - and somehow, given the attitude of his spouse, I don't really think that's happened. That one incident would have to be followed by a truly extended period of time without any recurrence or near recurrence. 1/2 of your child's life is not sufficient time.

You started off saying that your husband hit your child "several" times. Then you changed your tune and focused on two specific incidents. Now you're asking why "just once" is enough to "brand a person an abuser for life". As I said earlier, there might be some argument about whether or not one single incident is something to worry about - but that argument does not apply to you and your husband. He past one incident quite a while ago, didn't he?

[Esther]

This is an honest question, because I really find it hard to draw the line between "exasperated parent who makes a mistake" and "abuser" from what's been written here - but what is it about this incident that makes her husband into an abuser? Is it the child's age? The fact that he hit the child with an object instead of his hand? I can kind of see that, but I have little experience with this kind of situation so I wondered if it was that that constituted the main issue, the golf club.

I mean, growing up, I was smacked plenty by my mother/father/grandpa when I misbehaved, with the hand but never an object, and I certainly don't consider them abusers - would you?

[Gizmola]

This is an honest question, because I really find it hard to draw the line between "exasperated parent who makes a mistake" and "abuser" from what's been written here - but what is it about this incident that makes her husband into an abuser? Is it the child's age? The fact that he hit the child with an object instead of his hand? I can kind of see that, but I have little experience with this kind of situation so I wondered if it was that that constituted the main issue, the golf club.

I think the difference is the "several times with objects" by a parent whose only coping mechanism when dealing with anger is leaving the room. That indicates a pattern of uncontrollable anger in my book.

[Esther]

I think the difference is the "several times with objects" by a parent whose only coping mechanism when dealing with anger is leaving the room. That indicates a pattern of uncontrollable anger in my book.

Right. I understand that. I do think, from what she said, that - whether it results in hitting the children or not - her husband's anger is sufficiently problematic to make counselling/therapy necessary. I don't think he is necessary incurable, but I think that would be a good idea.

[formergothardite]

If he is alone with the child and the child starts having a fit and the dad leaves the room the room after "raising his voice to the child" to keep himself from getting so angry that he hits him with a golf club again, what will he do if the child follows him into the other room? Just keep trying to avoid the child? The fact that he can't stay in the room with a small child who is having a fit without wanting to hit him with an object isn't good.

[velly]

I'm sorry but the way vex is defending her husband SICKENS me... I am not a mother yet but if I was and my husband hit our son with ANYTHING (let alone a remote control or a golf club) I'd be filling those papers so fast. I know it's not as easy as it sounds but what are you waiting for? For something REAL bad to happen? For your children to be truly afraid something bad might happen? Why make excuses? I'd give my man an ultimatum: get help or get the fuck out. This just makes me angry, sorry but trying to defend him and his actions is even more disgusting than watching it happen. You care more about your husband than your son, sorry to say,

[Austin]

Women who are more concerned with their men than their children sicken me.

That is all.

[velly]

Women who are more concerned with their men than their children sicken me.

That is all.

preach, this is the part I find the most sickening of it all.

[Koala]

Women who are more concerned with their men than their children sicken me.

That is all.

Amen.

[Gizmola]

Amen.

QFT

[StarrieEyedKat]

Women who are more concerned with their men than their children sicken me.

That is all.

This is why I like you, you're so succinct in your infinite wisdom. :clap:

[snarkbillie]

This is an honest question, because I really find it hard to draw the line between "exasperated parent who makes a mistake" and "abuser" from what's been written here - but what is it about this incident that makes her husband into an abuser? Is it the child's age? The fact that he hit the child with an object instead of his hand? I can kind of see that, but I have little experience with this kind of situation so I wondered if it was that that constituted the main issue, the golf club.

I mean, growing up, I was smacked plenty by my mother/father/grandpa when I misbehaved, with the hand but never an object, and I certainly don't consider them abusers - would you?

Honestly, if my husband ever hit my kids I would strongly suggest counseling for him and if he didn't go I would probably leave. Assaulting someone is not okay under any circumstances. If someone is so unable to control their emotions that they're hitting people, they need professional help.

[B5SnowDog]

I'm sorry but the way vex is defending her husband SICKENS me... I am not a mother yet but if I was and my husband hit our son with ANYTHING (let alone a remote control or a golf club) I'd be filling those papers so fast. I know it's not as easy as it sounds but what are you waiting for? For something REAL bad to happen? For your children to be truly afraid something bad might happen? Why make excuses? I'd give my man an ultimatum: get help or get the fuck out. This just makes me angry, sorry but trying to defend him and his actions is even more disgusting than watching it happen. You care more about your husband than your son, sorry to say,

I think you mean ChickeyMonkey, not vex. Vex is the poster whose father hit her hard enough to make her nose bleed.

[velly]

I think you mean ChickeyMonkey, not vex. Vex is the poster whose father hit her hard enough to make her nose bleed.

Yes! I'm sorry vex, I am currently sick and highly medicated so I make sully mistakes :oops:

[fakepigtails73]

I'm sorry but the way vex is defending her husband SICKENS me... I am not a mother yet but if I was and my husband hit our son with ANYTHING (let alone a remote control or a golf club) I'd be filling those papers so fast. I know it's not as easy as it sounds but what are you waiting for? For something REAL bad to happen? For your children to be truly afraid something bad might happen? Why make excuses? I'd give my man an ultimatum: get help or get the fuck out. This just makes me angry, sorry but trying to defend him and his actions is even more disgusting than watching it happen. You care more about your husband than your son, sorry to say,

QFT and very well said.

I just finished reading the thread, and it is triggering.

My heart goes to all of you that suffered violence; as to the mother, I can't believe how blasé one is over the beatings (notice the plural form on that last word) her toddler gets from his Dad.

[luckystone]

QFT

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