60 Day Juice Fast?

[keeperrox]

You're totally off your nut. This woman completely rejected her daughter and treated her like crap because her new husband disliked the daughter. They didn't allow the daughter to hold or play with the baby from the new marriage. The husband was cheating and when the daughter told her mother the mom called her a liar and treated her even shittier than she already was. And that's not even getting into the husband shooting and killing the wife's dog. I have no idea what you find likeable about this woman, she's high on my "can't stand the sight of her" list.

Ahhhh, I was wondering if this was her. She's a horrible fucking person. Didn't the daughter come here to "defend" her mother?

[Guest Anonymous]

Ahhhh, I was wondering if this was her. She's a horrible fucking person. Didn't the daughter come here to "defend" her mother?

Yep. Here's the thread from the old forum: http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/5950/T ... -a-Shoebox

[Vex]

I remember that thread. That woman was incredibly nasty towards Amanda and thoughtless in the way she spoke about her when writing about her childhood in her blog. It doesn't surprise me that such an insensitive person would do something that has potentially negative consequences for the body-/self-image of her teenage daughters. Even suggesting they go on a diet with her at all could have made a girl with otherwise healthy self-esteem question herself. I really hope these girls aren't that easily rattled in that way.

[velly]

You're totally off your nut. This woman completely rejected her daughter and treated her like crap because her new husband disliked the daughter. They didn't allow the daughter to hold or play with the baby from the new marriage. The husband was cheating and when the daughter told her mother the mom called her a liar and treated her even shittier than she already was. And that's not even getting into the husband shooting and killing the wife's dog. I have no idea what you find likeable about this woman, she's high on my "can't stand the sight of her" list.

Well I didn't read too much, just that one post and stuff so maybe she played to the reader's hearts in that one. I have no idea but from that post it sounds like she tried to support her. I went to sleep after writing that and didn't read anymore but hey I will read up more on it and see what I find about her the you all see.

[Guest Anonymous]

Well I didn't read too much, just that one post and stuff so maybe she played to the reader's hearts in that one. I have no idea but from that post it sounds like she tried to support her. I went to sleep after writing that and didn't read anymore but hey I will read up more on it and see what I find about her the you all see.

I suggest you read the thread on the old forum. The woman married a man who couldn't stand her three year old and then blamed the three year old for it.

To other FJers who were around during that - did she delete and tone down some of her posts after she discovered that they made her look like a horrible person?

[Koala]

Well I didn't read too much, just that one post and stuff so maybe she played to the reader's hearts in that one. I have no idea but from that post it sounds like she tried to support her. I went to sleep after writing that and didn't read anymore but hey I will read up more on it and see what I find about her the you all see.

Everything the others have said. Amanda's "problems" stemmed from the way she was treated by her mother. Go back and read the Yuku thread that was linked. She is disgusting.

If you have any further delusions that she is a "very sweet person", see this post by Cheryl herself:

http://treasuresfromashoebox.blogspot.com/2010/07/haleys-prayer.html

[Koala]

From the above linked post:

Cheryl

Two-year old Haley had been caught in wrongdoing and then lied when asked about her involvement. This is a spanking issue in our home. In my serious, somber mommy voice I said, "We must visit the bathroom." She put her head down and reluctantly walked to the room where she knew the discipline was to be administered.

Cheryl

Applying the "rod" was still new to me. My children had been completely out of control until our Pastor shared a wonderful book with us: To Train Up a Child by Michael and Debi Pearl. I read that book in a day and when Stephanie arrived home from school one Wednesday afternoon I was sitting on the sofa with the book in one hand and a brand new spanker stick (a piece of plumber's tubing) in the other. I gently, but firmly explained that up to this point the children had been ruling the house, but that God commands that the parents are to lead and instruct and children are commanded to obey. We discussed what issues would constitute a spanking. Lying would merit a trip to the bathroom.

http://treasuresfromashoebox.blogspot.com/2010/07/haleys-prayer.html

Doesn't sound very sweet now does she?

[luckystone]

Gross! She looks stupid, not cruel, but apparently that's not true.

[ChickeyMonkey]

From the above linked post:

Cheryl

Cheryl

http://treasuresfromashoebox.blogspot.c ... rayer.html

Doesn't sound very sweet now does she?

That just breaks my heart. My youngest is very strong-willed, stubborn, and into everything. He's really frustrating. If he were born into a family like this, he'd be dead. Literally, I believe.

Several times my husband has hit our youngest with objects because he got so angry with him. That doesn't happen anymore. :evil: It took all I had not to beat the shit out of my husband when he did that. Who hits a kid with the handle part of a golf club? I didn't see it but our older son did. It wasn't like a baseball swing, but still. You don't do that. Our son was 2.5 years old at the time. Yes, he's incredibly frustrating, but YOU.DON'T.HIT. Never mind with objects! It's bad enough that the youngest hits, too. Way to reinforce the "no hitting" sentiment, husband. :roll:

At least he had the decency to feel shameful about what he did and apologized to our youngest.

I hesitate to post this because I don't want people to think he's an asshole who beats his kids right and left. That isn't true. But people will be outraged - as I was/am -that he did that, and if I'm going to share it, I have to take the criticism for it. I wasn't in the room when it happened, because if I was, it wouldn't have happened.

[Vex]

I might be missing something, but I do think she deleted some of the worse posts, or at least edited parts of her posts.

I remember that for me, the worst part was that when she read about the criticism, she called Amanda and had her come and defend her behaviour.

[Koala]

That just breaks my heart. My youngest is very strong-willed, stubborn, and into everything. He's really frustrating. If he were born into a family like this, he'd be dead. Literally, I believe.

Several times my husband has hit our youngest with objects because he got so angry with him. That doesn't happen anymore. :evil: It took all I had not to beat the shit out of my husband when he did that. Who hits a kid with the handle part of a golf club? I didn't see it but our older son did. It wasn't like a baseball swing, but still. You don't do that. Our son was 2.5 years old at the time. Yes, he's incredibly frustrating, but YOU.DON'T.HIT. Never mind with objects! It's bad enough that the youngest hits, too. Way to reinforce the "no hitting" sentiment, husband. :roll:

At least he had the decency to feel shameful about what he did and apologized to our youngest.

I hesitate to post this because I don't want people to think he's an asshole who beats his kids right and left. That isn't true. But people will be outraged - as I was/am -that he did that, and if I'm going to share it, I have to take the criticism for it. I wasn't in the room when it happened, because if I was, it wouldn't have happened.

I am going to say this and hope that you take it as what it is - words of advice from a woman whose father severely abused her mother. Get Out. Pack your babies up and go. If your husband has hit your 2 year old with objects (including a golf club), you need to get them away from him as soon and as fast as you can (read immediately). I've never said that to anyone in my life, but I will say it now, because I fear that this man is going to seriously harm one of your children. These incidents need to be reported to the police, because he should never be trusted unsupervised with them.

If he loses it that easily on a baby (which is what a 2 year old really is) then what on earth will he do when the kid gets a bit older and more mouthy? If he has no control over his anger, one of his attacks on your son could easily turn tragic (as in news making tragic).

Please get out. Get help. Every minute you stay is sending your kids the message that what their father did was okay. You are the other adult in their life and it is your job to protect them. My mom left my father after I witnessed a particularly scary attack on her. She said that I took her face in my hands and told her I would protect her. I was 4. She new that that was the last straw. If this man had hit you with various objects and a golf club would you stay? Hopefully not. Go. Please protect your children.

[ChickeyMonkey]

I am going to say this and hope that you take it as what it is - words of advice from a woman whose father severely abused her mother. Get Out. Pack your babies up and go. If your husband has hit your 2 year old with objects (including a golf club), you need to get them away from him as soon and as fast as you can (read immediately). I've never said that to anyone in my life, but I will say it now, because I fear that this man is going to seriously harm one of your children. These incidents need to be reported to the police, because he should never be trusted unsupervised with them.

If he loses it that easily on a baby (which is what a 2 year old really is) then what on earth will he do when the kid gets a bit older and more mouthy? If he has no control over his anger, one of his attacks on your son could easily turn tragic (as in news making tragic).

Please get out. Get help. Every minute you stay is sending your kids the message that what their father did was okay. You are the other adult in their life and it is your job to protect them. My mom left my father after I witnessed a particularly scary attack on her. She said that I took her face in my hands and told her I would protect her. I was 4. She new that that was the last straw. If this man had hit you with various objects and a golf club would you stay? Hopefully not. Go. Please protect your children.

Koala, I appreciate your advice, but I know this was not to the level it seems. My husband is remorseful and regrets what he did. It hasn't happened again. When he gets angry, he leaves. I know this sounds like a cop-out, but I know my situation better than anyone.

[Koala]

Koala, I appreciate your advice, but I know this was not to the level it seems. My husband is remorseful and regrets what he did. It hasn't happened again. When he gets angry, he leaves. I know this sounds like a cop-out, but I know my situation better than anyone.

My father was always remorseful. He was never going to do it again either...until he did. If this man is already hitting your baby with a golf club then it has already gone way too far and will very likely escalate. This is not normal behavior, and there is no level it could be at to make it okay. He is abusing your son and it's your job to get your children to a safe place where this can never happen again.

What other objects has he hit him with? Would you stay if he hit you with golf clubs and other objects, or would you call the police and have him arrested?

Please understand that your son is just a baby. Your husband needs professional help.

[Conuly]

Koala, I appreciate your advice, but I know this was not to the level it seems. My husband is remorseful and regrets what he did. It hasn't happened again. When he gets angry, he leaves. I know this sounds like a cop-out, but I know my situation better than anyone.

By your own comment, he's hit your toddler repeatedly with objects. Heavy objects that could actually do long-term, lasting harm. Not because of any consistent discipline approach (not that that makes it much better) but because of anger. Your child is not yet three, and he's been hit multiple times by your husband with objects. Is this a correct and accurate statement?

Because if it is, then you don't know if the situation really is getting better forever. What has your husband done to change his behavior besides just being sorry and promising not to do it again? Has he gone to any sort of anger management or parenting classes? Has he had any therapy? I'm not saying that abusers can't change, but I doubt that most of them can do it just because they feel (or act) remorseful after they hit their kids. They need help... and they won't get it if you just go "I'm sure it's all better now".

Some abusers will go a long time between bouts of violence. That's comparatively "good", I guess, but when the violence is seen by hitting small, helpless people with heavy objects, it really only takes one incidence to do severe harm. What if the next time, a year from now, he seriously injures your kid? I'm sure he'll feel sorry, but it won't do any good after the fact.

I don't know your husband. Maybe he really has changed. But I wouldn't trust on that without, at a minimum, evidence of effort.

[StarrieEyedKat]

snipping for brevity

Koala, I appreciate your advice, but I know this was not to the level it seems. My husband is remorseful and regrets what he did. It hasn't happened again. When he gets angry, he leaves. I know this sounds like a cop-out, but I know my situation better than anyone.

I don't want to pile on you here, because I know that wouldn't be helpful, but I do want to point out - what happens when he's unable to leave? What if he's alone with your youngest and gets angry and can't go cool off somewhere? I think you need to have a very honest and open discussion with him about getting some therapy to help him cope with his anger when leaving isn't an option.

Best of luck to you.

[ChickeyMonkey]

He smacked him once on the leg with the tv remote and with his hand. That's not a heavy object. The golf club was a shock to me. I think our youngest was trying to take it away and use it as a bat and my husband grabbed the end you hit the ball with and smacked him on the thigh with the handle part (not trying to excuse his behavior, only explain the setting, if that makes sense). Not the best approach by any stretch of the imagination, but he can't make it unhappen but wishes he could go back and do things differently. He hasn't done anything like that since. He doesn't smack him on the leg anymore when he does something wrong. He gets put in his room and comes out on his own when he's calmed down. No more hitting.

I'm sorry I posted. I shouldn't have. It's not a pattern or an ongoing thing with my husband. Can't a person do something they totally regret and never do it again? Or are they always and forever defined by that action?

We've done that, StarrieEyedKat, and have had discussions about his (husband's) behavior and what to do when he gets mad and is the only one home. He puts him in his room and lets him tantrum in there until he's stopped.

[Koala]

He smacked him once on the leg with the tv remote and with his hand. That's not a heavy object.

The golf club was a shock to me. I think our youngest was trying to take it away and use it as a bat and my husband grabbed the end you hit the ball with and smacked him on the thigh with the handle part (not trying to excuse his behavior, only explain the setting, if that makes sense).

I know that you probably aren't trying to make excuses for him, but that's really how it's coming across. I really hate to just keep going and going on this, but I can't not speak up. I've got 2 children of my own, and I would want someone to speak up for them.

Saying things like "he hit him with the tv remote, but that's not a heavy object", or explaining that it was only the handle end of the golf club that a grown man hit a 2 year old with sounds like you are rationalizing the behavior in your mind. I know you are upset by it, but I'm concerned that you are not upset enough to take action. I am also concerned that both your husband and children see that level of acceptance. The message it sends to your husband is that he's gotten this far and all he had to do was promise not to do it again. The message it sends to your kids is that it's okay if Dad hits the baby with a golf club, because mommy isn't doing anything about it.

he can't make it unhappen but wishes he could go back and do things differently. He hasn't done anything like that since. He doesn't smack him on the leg anymore when he does something wrong. He gets put in his room and comes out on his own when he's calmed down. No more hitting.

Not to sound all Dr. Phil here, but past behavior is often the best predictor of future behavior. Just because he hasn't done anything since, certainly doesn't mean he won't. There may come a day when your son refuses to stay in his room, and then what? Based on your husbands past behavior, he will snap. Has he done anything (as in seeking professional help) to insure that he learns better ways to cope with the stresses of parenthood? If he does not learn new tools, he will resort to using the ones he already has. Believe me, it does not get less complicated as they age, and if he thinks he's frustrated with a two year old, then he is definitely not going to do well with the years to follow.

I'm sorry I posted. I shouldn't have. It's not a pattern or an ongoing thing with my husband. Can't a person do something they totally regret and never do it again? Or are they always and forever defined by that action?

No, you did not do the wrong thing by posting. No one here is trying to attack you. We are trying to offer you advice. We are trying to help you insure that your son isn't abused again.

People absolutely do things they regret, but in a situation where the thing they regret is abusing their child, it can't just be swept under the rug. It has to be addressed so it never happens again. I honestly don't think you're in a position to evaluate whether he is likely to harm your son again. You are so close to the situation, and I suspect that you are so horrified by what he did that you're lying to yourself to try to convince yourself it was a one time thing that will never happen again. Unfortunately, most abusers don't just act once or twice. It's generally a pattern of attack, apologize, reform, attack. (repeat).

I do wonder if he'd hit you with the remote and the golf club if you'd be as willing to give him a second chance. Do you think you would have left him or called the police under those circumstances? Would you encourage another woman to get out if she was telling you her husband hit her 2 year old or her with a golf club? Sometimes you have to think of your situation objectively. What would this look like if I was on the outside looking in? Keeping it a secret for him is not the answer. Not talking is not the answer. Thinking you are wrong for "telling on him" is a mark of abuse in itself.

Please know that everything I am saying is coming from a place of genuine concern for your children.

[Conuly]

Can't a person do something they totally regret and never do it again? Or are they always and forever defined by that action?

Sure, absolutely.

But it's a lot easier with help. And if he'd only hit your kid *once* it'd be easier for us all to accept that you're right, it'll never happen again. I'm sure he was remorseful and regretful over the incident with the remote, but it still happened a second time. You say it's not a pattern, but all patterns start with just one or two incidents.

Most abusers are sorry. Many of them make small efforts to change. But it's very, very hard, in the pinch of things, to keep to those efforts without help. There are many resources out there to help people who have trouble with anger management or effective parenting skills. Having a good back-up is the best way to prevent a future blow-up that he's going to regret.

Nobody wants to attack you and your husband. We want you and your kids to be safe. For that, your husband needs the tools to help him take care of them safely.

You're right, we can't tell you what to do. And I hope you're right about your husband. But if you're not, and it does happen again - and like everybody else here I hope that it doesn't - please take the kid and get out. Because three times most definitely IS a pattern.

[Koala]

Several times my husband has hit our youngest with objects because he got so angry with him.

It's not a pattern or an ongoing thing with my husband.

Do you see how these two statements contradict each other?

What has he hit him with besides a golf club and a remote?

[velly]

Okay, sorry I've been away for a few days... things going on, life has gotten worse in almost every way possible and stuff. But, now that I am back (and said 'fuck you world, Imma cry, stay in bed and go online) I have read all these posts and other posts on her blog and I can see a lot better what you guys mean! That post made her sound like a supportive mother of a rebellious girl but now I think she's just the passive aggressive mother of a woman who (like most people) is willing to forget the bad because she seeks her mother's love and affection. It makes me sad... though most things make me sad today =(

[ChickeyMonkey]

Do you see how these two statements contradict each other?

What has he hit him with besides a golf club and a remote?

No, I don't. Ongoing is continuous. "Several" is not ongoing nor continuous.

I can't make you believe he's not a horrible abuser who always hits his kids when he gets angry. I can't make you believe that he's learned from his mistakes and isn't hitting as a form of punishment. I get it. There was someone on here who used to use corporal punishment on her first kid(s) but stopped on her subsequent kids. She changed. Is it so hard to believe my husband can change? Is it because he's a man that it's difficult to believe? He has changed. If you still think he hasn't changed, that's your right, but you don't know him. I understand and appreciate your concern, I really do. But I know my husband. You can think I'm an idiot or whatever, but I'm not and we are all OK. It's not what you think.

[snarkykitty]

No, I don't. Ongoing is continuous. "Several" is not ongoing nor continuous.

I can't make you believe he's not a horrible abuser who always hits his kids when he gets angry. I can't make you believe that he's learned from his mistakes and isn't hitting as a form of punishment. I get it. There was someone on here who used to use corporal punishment on her first kid(s) but stopped on her subsequent kids. She changed. Is it so hard to believe my husband can change? Is it because he's a man that it's difficult to believe? He has changed. If you still think he hasn't changed, that's your right, but you don't know him. I understand and appreciate your concern, I really do. But I know my husband. You can think I'm an idiot or whatever, but I'm not and we are all OK. It's not what you think.

Hitting a baby with a metal golf club or a hard, plastic remote control is NOT simple corporal punishment. What could a baby have done so wrong that a grown man probably 10 times his size felt compelled to hit him with something like that, versus using "just" a hand? (I don't condone ANY hitting, but a golf club? A plastic remote control? That's meant to HURT, not simply distract a child).

I'm sorry. I am shaking inside at this story. Even if it "only" happened "several times," how in the world do you know it won't happen again? Isn't once enough? How often is the child alone with him and you don't witness this kind of "discipline"?

Yes, people can change, but only when there is a reason that they believe is a good reason, and with a lot of purposeful reconditioning.

I strongly suggest that both of you look into counseling and/or anger management, if his norm is to get so angry that he has to leave a room to prevent blowing up. What is so bad about his/your life that he gets so angry? I understand a rough life, tough finances, worries about work, the house, and putting food on the table (I've been there - I've been poor, sick, in a bad emotional state, scared about the most basic things in life), and I've realized that nothing is worth that level of reaction, be it anger, sadness, depression, fear, or anxiety.

That's all I'll say about that.

[Buzzard]

Prosecutor hat back on here...

Anyone who has the propensity to strike a small child with an object needs help. Why? Because it only takes one strike, at the wrong time, in the wrong place, with just a little force to knock a toddler down and into something that can kill them. I've seen children killed with pencils, remote controls, tennis rackets... the list of "innocent" items goes on... If you lose control and lash out with an object you can cause serious injury, regardless of your intention.

He needs anger management and a trip to a psychiatrist is a good plan. Children can be stressful, perhaps he needs some anxiety meds or has another issue that is causing him to react in this manner. Even Pearl says never spank in anger - thats the only thing I'll agree with him on (although I say never spank). The emotion that an adult has, transferred through an object to a small child can be fatal. Sure, its been innocent so far... but all it takes is one swipe in the wrong place and your life will never be the same.

Prosecutor hat off.

[Conuly]

I've seen children killed with pencils, remote controls, tennis rackets... the list of "innocent" items goes on.

Pencils? Really? I'm not arguing, it just seems... well, to be frank, unbelievable! I'm not sure if I want the details or not.

(Not saying that you should hit your kid with pencils, either purposely or not.)

[Buzzard]

Pencils? Really? I'm not arguing, it just seems... well, to be frank, unbelievable! I'm not sure if I want the details or not.

(Not saying that you should hit your kid with pencils, either purposely or not.)

It was around 2000-2001. Mom got mad a toddler and either hit him or pushed him. He fell off the bed and a pencil pierced his thigh in just the wrong place. She took it out (bad call) and he bled out before the paramedics got there.