Adoption coercion on 16 and Pregnant

[Deleted03]

In my state, you have to take a crash course in infant safety while in the hospital. They have videos they make you watch on how to bathe and change the baby with stuff thrown in about not smoking around them, etc. I had to watch the video with my last two even though they were my 4th and 5th children and I certainly knew the stuff in the video.

There are resources for parents who know how to look for them, like carseat checks at fire stations and infant CPR/first aid. I think they should at the very least be made more available and better known. Mandatory? Maybe. I assume that parents will be vigilant, but maybe they don't even know how vigilant they need to be. You will not set out to learn something if you don't know that you don't know it, kwim?

I took a CPR/first aid class that included infant when my 16 yo was a baby. My son choked on a piece of dog food the next day, and I still have that moment of chilling fear when I think that I would not have known how to deal with it if it had just two days earlier.

You'd hope they be vigilant... but I know a family where the dad was amazed that this other dad was talking to his 9 month old daughter... he asked really? do you think it's good?

Of course this family has 3 kids with major issues... no one talk to them all day long unless it's for come sit and eat.

I think some parents truly need those classes and the best way to reach them is to make some mandatory prenatal crash course or something this idea, I am not a policy maker. The other problem in doing that in high school is 1- how do you reach homeschoolers? 2- How much do you remember of your high school classes? 3- there is a need to update knowledge/advice as you go and giving classes at a set point in time does not help updating.

[Mama Mia]

I like the idea of high school life skills, including parenting. As important as academics are - I think real life skills are at least as important in the long run.

Maybe mandatory life skills, and then they send you home with some dvd's after the baby is born ? There are a lot of really good on-line resources too.

I'm not crazy about the mandatory crash course when you have just delivered a baby. My poor daughter almost died following the birth of her child, had an extremely botched c-section, was on several antibiotics with a high fever, had a transfusion and was so weak she couldn't even stand up or function - and the hospital was harassing her about watching these infant safety videos. It was pretty ridiculous. Even with an "easy" birth - it doesn't seem like the ideal time to retain information.

[currywurst]

I think a lot this stuff is changing regarding baby safety and car seats. I think we forget how new a lot of this stuff is. Heck, I grew up in the 80s and although I had a car seat as a baby, it was not rear facing, and I went straight from car seat to just sitting on the seat, with the seat belt cutting into my neck and everything. My mom was good mother, but most people just did not really think too much about that stuff back then. It is also somewhat culture-specific. I have family in Sicily, and just last summer I saw plenty of people driving around with their kids not only NOT in cars seats, but standing up in the back seat of the car. I friend of mine from Mexico always rode in the car with the baby on her lap. It never even crossed her mind that she might need a car seat.

[apple1]

I think a lot this stuff is changing regarding baby safety and car seats. I think we forget how new a lot of this stuff is. Heck, I grew up in the 80s and although I had a car seat as a baby, it was not rear facing, and I went straight from car seat to just sitting on the seat, with the seat belt cutting into my neck and everything. My mom was good mother, but most people just did not really think too much about that stuff back then. It is also somewhat culture-specific...

My daughters were born in 1981 and 1983. I researched and researched. I chose the car seat that tested most safe then. It was able to be installed rear-facing, then converted to front-facing at the appropriate time. It had a 5 point harness that required putting 5 separate straps into the appropriate latch mechanism. (The brand name escapes me now). The hospitals in my city would not dismiss any baby from the hospital without a car seat. Then, as now, you would be ticketed if police identified that you were not using the car seat. (The legal requirement for car seat use at that time in my state was 4 years/40 pounds; that has been extended significantly now). I switched to a different car seat once the child reached a certain size. I also had a booster seat that we used for a while, once the child outgrew the car seat. The women I worked with, and other women I knew, did similarly with their kids/car seats.

We DID think about keeping our kids safe "back then". Just as now, there were (and are now) some violators. But the generalization is wrong.

[currywurst]

I think you were sort of the exception to the rule. I am sure plenty of people did that, but most people just went and bought a car seat, and then maybe a booster seat later. I know my ex-boyfriend's mom was a big seat belt/car seat advocate in the 80s and she was sort of unique. She had a rule with her son that he was not allowed to ride in a friend's car if it did not have seat belts, and he said that the issue of a car without backseat seat belts came up several times during his childhood in the 80s. In other words, lots of parents of kids his age owned cars without seat belts in the back seat. I had a couple of friends in the 80s whose parents had cars without seat belts in the back seat. I also rode in the back of many a pick-up trucks. Lots of other people did too. I think the 80s definitely brought about a shift in this mentality, but I think it definitely happened slowly, and in waves. My mom, who just had a basic car seat for me, is obsessed with properly installing the car seat for her granddaughters.

[apple1]

Actually, the US required by law that all cars sold after Jan. 1, 1968, be sold with seat belts in all passenger positions, including the back. (Legislation citing people for not wearing them came later).

It seems odd to me that you had friends in the 80s who had cars that did not have back seat belts. That would mean that their cars were quite old.

Oh, BTW, I had a Dad who installed seat belts in a car that he had before manufacturers started installing them.

But I am pretty sure that your generation is the only one that cares about being safe, or about making sure that their kids are safe. And that all us old folks are kinda stupid.

Sounds like that, anyway.

[currywurst]

I do not think old folks are stupid in the least. I have no idea how anything I wrote lead you to that conclusion. I am mystified. I was pointing out that there has been a cultural shift in how this has been perceived. And yes, lots of people I knew in the 80s were poor and had old cars. What I mainly remember though, is that seat belts frequently got "lost" in the folds of the seat (like when people put the seat down to load something), and that people were relatively unconcerned with finding them again. I even remember a few people who thought that it was only necessary to wear a seat belt when sitting in the front seat.

I think that is great that your dad thought of that. I think it is great that you were concerned as well. I wish more people would have been like you sooner. It would have saved a lot of lives! I really I have NO idea where you got that I thought you were stupid. I think you were SMART!

I was merely using my own childhood and upbringing for illustrative purposes. I brought up my ex because he saw similar things in his childhood. Seat belt/car seat safety was not a WIDESPREAD concern until the late 80s/early 90s.

[apple1]

Seat belt/car seat safety was not a WIDESPREAD concern until the late 80s/early 90s.

Nonsense. Now (as then) there are people who ignore safety concerns.

You just repeated your prejudices with this statement (in spite of the rest of your post).

I think you just post to be posting. You just joined this board 4 days ago. You have so far averaged nearly 40 posts a day, a lot of it contentious.

[currywurst]

Well, I disagree with a lot of people on adoption. But I am not trying to be "contentious." I am sincere about that. I think a lot of people totally misunderstood my post about Christianity and vows, and I tried to clear that up. I hope I was successful. I should have been more clear from the start - I see that now.

Okay, I will concede to being wrong about the seat belt/car seat thing. I was going by my own upbringing during that time and what I remember. I just remember a clear shift in my family and friends mentality around that time concerning car safety. I also have a lot friends who remember it the same way. I assumed, therefore, that that shift happened in a lot of places.

Look, I am not judging people who were parents during that time. I am was merely pointing out the reason I thought a lot of people still have so much trouble with car seats. I think it is because it is something which is "somewhat" new to these people. Not totally new, but maybe something that their parents at least, did not grow up with.

I have no idea how this was construed as being contentious. I really do not get it at all. I was trying to add to the discussion regarding car seats. I thought I would point out what I witnessed in the 80s as an example of the changes that have happened in a relatively short period of time.

I do NOT think you are stupid. I thought what I wrote about was interesting and added to the discussion.

[CanadianHippie]

Nonsense. Now (as then) there are people who ignore safety concerns.

You just repeated your prejudices with this statement (in spite of the rest of your post).

I think you just post to be posting. You just joined this board 4 days ago. You have so far averaged nearly 40 posts a day, a lot of it contentious.

Sorry, while I think currywurst is a bit of an ass, I have to say she (he?) has a point about car safety. Laws have changed drastically since the 80's. What was thought of as safe has changed drastically. Just because there was a law "enacted in 19XX, yadda yadda yadda" doesn't mean the average person thought "Oh My God! It must be a horrible dangerous thing to do!!!!!" Most parents in the early 80's did not consider it a serious safety violation to let their post-carseat child ride in a car with out a booster. Hell I remember being 5 years old and riding front passenger side without a booster seat. My parents were not the only ones, and no one in my family is stupid, none of my friends parents were stupid, they just had a different idea of what was safe back then. Kinda like when I was a kid helmets on bikes was considered a "great if you can afford it" and now they are considered a necessity.

[Mama Mia]

I think we need to remember that it isn't JUST changes in safety perception - it is also changes in the cars themselves.

Cars built prior to the seventies were generally large with actual solid metal. You just weren't as likely to get crumpled in a fender bender. Also, there were no air bags - which are what cause the injuries to children riding in the front seat.

I'm sure this does all change by region, and group. As a child in the sixties/ 70's I would ride in the back of the station wagon or a pickup truck .. but we were also the only kids who generally wore seat belts in the back seat because my dad briefly worked for an insurance company and was more aware of accidents than most people.

In the late seventies when my first friends were having babies you brought the baby home from the hosptial in the front seat, in the mom's arms. By the early eighties there were car seats and people generally used them.

[Feberin]

I think we need to remember that it isn't JUST changes in safety perception - it is also changes in the cars themselves.

Cars built prior to the seventies were generally large with actual solid metal. You just weren't as likely to get crumpled in a fender bender. Also, there were no air bags - which are what cause the injuries to children riding in the front seat.

I'm sure this does all change by region, and group. As a child in the sixties/ 70's I would ride in the back of the station wagon or a pickup truck .. but we were also the only kids who generally wore seat belts in the back seat because my dad briefly worked for an insurance company and was more aware of accidents than most people.

In the late seventies when my first friends were having babies you brought the baby home from the hosptial in the front seat, in the mom's arms. By the early eighties there were car seats and people generally used them.

I was born in 1984 and my parents had me in a car seat then a booster seat. Although I finished using the booster seat round five unlike the eight year olds you'll see in them today. But we ALWAYS wore seat belts. I feel like the car seat safety laws are in the process of changing dramatically still. Now they're realizing that reat facing is WAY safer for toddlers and the previous milestone of turning the seat around at one year is being pushed to two years with many remaining rear facing even longer. And booster seats are being used for longer and longer periods of time with tiny ten year olds still riding in them.

[Daisy]

My husband was born in 1979, my MIL has talked about how she would usually just hold him in the car, unless she had to drive somewhere by herself, then she would put him in what she called a pumpkin seat and what today we call a bouncy seat, and just put that in the car. Not strapped into the car, just sitting on the seat. She said one day she jumped a curb while driving and the bouncy chair tipped over with him in it. She says now she thinks that wasn't safe but at the time car seats weren't the law so they didn't have them.

I was also born in the late 70s, I can remember being made to wear a seatbelt in the car yet being allowed to ride around in the back of a pickup truck.

All of your comments got me curious as to when it did become the law, all google told me was Tennessee was the first state to make car seats mandatory in 1978, by 1988 the rest of the states had adopted it. I guess before then some people used them and some people didn't.

[constantgardener]

In the UK kids now have to use a booster seat until they are 12 or taller than 4' 9". My 7 yr old is so tiny he's probably going to end up learning to drive in booster seat! Bit different from when I was young (born in 1975) - my mum remembers bringing me home from hospital after I was born in a carry-cot on the back seat. And when we were kids my dad had a van and my brother and I used to put up deck chairs in the back and travel like that. Horrifying really, but nobody even wore seat belts then so I guess it's all relative.

[currywurst]

Sorry, while I think currywurst is a bit of an ass, I have to say she (he?) has a point about car safety. Laws have changed drastically since the 80's. What was thought of as safe has changed drastically. Just because there was a law "enacted in 19XX, yadda yadda yadda" doesn't mean the average person thought "Oh My God! It must be a horrible dangerous thing to do!!!!!" Most parents in the early 80's did not consider it a serious safety violation to let their post-carseat child ride in a car with out a booster. Hell I remember being 5 years old and riding front passenger side without a booster seat. My parents were not the only ones, and no one in my family is stupid, none of my friends parents were stupid, they just had a different idea of what was safe back then. Kinda like when I was a kid helmets on bikes was considered a "great if you can afford it" and now they are considered a necessity.

This is all have been trying to say. I do not think anyone was "bad" back then or anything, that's just the way it was. I never had a bicycle helmet as a kid. And I mean NEVER. Not one of my friends had one either. The first time I saw a bicycle helmet was on professional bike racers.

I actually have a rather good memory of my childhood. I do not remember any of my friends or myself riding in a booster seat. It is possible that we were all living in some bubble, but I can only assume that it was relatively common in the US in those times to switch you kid straight from a car seat to nothing.

I do not understand how me saying any of this came across as insulting to anyone in particular. I was merely pointing out the changes that I saw in my lifetime.

I want to also add this: I have nothing but absolute respect and gratitude for those people who were pioneers in car and child safety. They were the minority in those days, but their tireless work and devotion saved thousands of lives. I think of those people as heroes, and since I know these things are always being developed, I consider anyone who still fights for this to be heroic. For example, always having a child ride in the back seat is definitely something that changed in my lifetime. When I was a kid, NO ONE THAT I KNEW knew about that. The reason people are careful today is because someone researched for, and advocated for, the change. Mad respect.

[fakepigtails73]

Sorry, while I think currywurst is a bit of an ass, I have to say she (he?) has a point about car safety. Laws have changed drastically since the 80's. What was thought of as safe has changed drastically. Just because there was a law "enacted in 19XX, yadda yadda yadda" doesn't mean the average person thought "Oh My God! It must be a horrible dangerous thing to do!!!!!" Most parents in the early 80's did not consider it a serious safety violation to let their post-carseat child ride in a car with out a booster. Hell I remember being 5 years old and riding front passenger side without a booster seat. My parents were not the only ones, and no one in my family is stupid, none of my friends parents were stupid, they just had a different idea of what was safe back then. Kinda like when I was a kid helmets on bikes was considered a "great if you can afford it" and now they are considered a necessity.

Totally agree with CHippie here. Re: bike helmets, no one had those when I was a kid (late 70s-early 80s) and Lucifer knows that we rode bikes; if a kid would be seen wearing one while riding around the neighbourhood he would've been teased mercilessly (kids are mean). Now if a kid doesn't wear a helmet while cycling it's almost like the DPJ (our version of CPS) would be called (that is to say that if I had a child he'd wear a helmet on his bike).

I had so much fun playing outside during my childhood. Kids miss lots of things these days... :evil:

I remember my parents and I going to Maine in the station wagon; my cousin and I would spend many hours napping in the back, no belts in sights...Yup, when I was 5 I sometimes rode sandwiched between my Dad and Mom in the front seat in the big Pontiac, no belts for me. It's only been since 15 yrs or so that I buckle up in the back seat each and every time, which I didn't do before even if I always buckled up in the front.

On a more serious matter, my parents and grandparents would drink drunk very often when it was not a criminal offence. My Dad tells me that sometimes they'd wake up and wouldn't remember their ride on their way home. Luckyly no accidents happened. Drunk driving creeps me out.

[emmiedahl]

I think she is a bit right about the safety issues. But, damn, she has started 3 arguments in this thread alone and more on other threads. ffs. I love to argue more than pretty much anyone I know, but this is just tiresome.

[bekkah]

God, the safety thing is sometimes overdone in American culture. I babysat a 1st grader but she was a big kid(tall and weighed a good amount). She wouldn't go anywhere without a booster seat, my mom even said I could take her without one because she was so tall! I think its good we have the laws now but I think we need to focus on height and weight not age.

When I was a kid in the mid 90s, I remembered my parents would take the way back seat out of the van and we would sleep. Put a ton of blankets and stuff, I shudder thinking that I wasn't buckled.

[currywurst]

When I was a kid in the mid 90s, I remembered my parents would take the way back seat out of the van and we would sleep. Put a ton of blankets and stuff, I shudder thinking that I wasn't buckled.

My parents did that too. We had a camper on the back of our truck and we used to take it on road trips. The back was basically one giant bed where all the kids slept or played. No doubt there were plenty of people back then who were really concerned with car seats and child safety, but my parents weren't, and I know they were not unusual for the times. I "sort of" see where my parents were coming from. Having that space and ability to move around or sleep lying down was the only thing that made those road trips tolerable. I think they did that because they honestly thought they were making us as comfortable and happy as possible.

I am glad other people have similar stories. I was basically told I was a liar about the 80s and car seats and I am pretty sure plenty of people grew up the way I did. I understand that seat belts were mandated in 1968, but I know people of my parents' generation (baby boomers) really did not see seat belts as mandatory like people do today. Even in the 80s it was still something that was really kind of new to a lot of people. I am not saying that most people did not wear their seat belt, but plenty of people had a learning curve with it. Now it is just a given: you get in the car, you put on your seat belt, but back then to plenty of people it was still just an option.

[Guest Anonymous]

My parents did that too. We had a camper on the back of our truck and we used to take it on road trips. The back was basically one giant bed where all the kids slept or played. No doubt there were plenty of people back then who were really concerned with car seats and child safety, but my parents weren't, and I know they were not unusual for the times. I "sort of" see where my parents were coming from. Having that space and ability to move around or sleep lying down was the only thing that made those road trips tolerable. I think they did that because they honestly thought they were making us as comfortable and happy as possible.

I am glad other people have similar stories. I was basically told I was a liar about the 80s and car seats and I am pretty sure plenty of people grew up the way I did. I understand that seat belts were mandated in 1968, but I know people of my parents' generation (baby boomers) really did not see seat belts as mandatory like people do today. Even in the 80s it was still something that was really kind of new to a lot of people. I am not saying that most people did not wear their seat belt, but plenty of people had a learning curve with it. Now it is just a given: you get in the car, you put on your seat belt, but back then to plenty of people it was still just an option.

You can't possibly think you're going to get to go around posting like you're not an enormous troll after the shit piles you've left all over this place. Your fundie ass has been fitted with a radio collar.

[currywurst]

I am telling you, I am not a fundie. I was asking those questions because I did not know the answer, and because fundies and Christians alike totally confuse me.

I was raised on a hippie commune (in the 80s no less!) by atheists. I am 30 years old, female, unmarried, and I live in Berlin all by myself. I made that choice on my own and everything. I know very little about religion and it has never played a role in my life. Please, do not think I am a fundie. Go back and actually read my posts on the other thread. There is no way any reasonable person could read those without seeing them for what they are - a criticism of Christianity.

[Witsec7]

I am telling you, I am not a fundie. I was asking those questions because I did not know the answer, and because fundies and Christians alike totally confuse me.

I was raised on a hippie commune (in the 80s no less!) by atheists. I am 30 years old, female, unmarried, and I live in Berlin all by myself. I made that choice on my own and everything. I know very little about religion and it has never played a role in my life. Please, do not think I am a fundie. Go back and actually read my posts on the other thread. There is no way any reasonable person could read those without seeing them for what they are - a criticism of Christianity.

You failed to mention your insomnia.

[currywurst]

You failed to mention your insomnia.

Yeah I have actually had it pretty bad the past few days, especially since I got sick. It is nearly 2:30 in the morning here in Prenzlauer Berg. Luckily for me my apartment does not face the street, but rather the hof.

[Witsec7]

Yeah I have actually had it pretty bad the past few days, especially since I got sick. It is nearly 2:30 in the morning here in Prenzlauer Berg. Luckily for me my apartment does not face the street, but rather the hof.

:chores-vacuum:

[Guest Anonymous]

:chores-vacuum:

experiencedd, put your feet up! I'm going to go mix you a cocktail. It's a martini, right? Remind me how you like 'em.