Adoption coercion on 16 and Pregnant

[BlackHawk]

I don't watch 16 and pregnant, don't have cable. However, adoption coercion does happen, sad, but true. As a perspective adoption parent, I think we need to educate our society on their options, simple as that. In our adoption plan, we find it only ethical to offer birth mother counseling if our birth mother wants it. I wouldn't FORCE her into it, but I feel it's the best option so that she understands her options and understands exactly what this means. We made a GREAT effort to find an ethical agency that allowed us to have this in our plan. I'm sure we are overlooked a lot because we want out birth mother to be in a position that she has the time to go to counseling and really benefit from it. I personally believe this should be a requirement before ALL adoptions. I would rather be out the money of counseling than have our birth mother regret the decision because she didn't know she had other options.

Adoption in America is too easy. I say this as someone who is struggling right now to get everything done. There is no process to make sure everyone understands their options and has access to the safeguards our government has built in to the system, which granted aren't a lot. We do not take the time to educate people placing their child, instead they are often lied to. I firmly believe that adoption contracts should be legally enforceable, should be written how the birth mother wants, with a little input from the adoptive family. I do NOT believe that you should be able to adopt outside of an agency unless it is within your family. Private adoptions without agencies are often the type where a fundie girl gets pregnant and her baby is placed, without really caring what she says, with a private attorney. To me that is horrible.

Yes, adoption is the only way we can build our family, it is the only way we have chosen, and I know by wanting tougher laws it may take us longer to find our children. But I'd rather be able to tell my children as they grow "Papa did everything he could to help your birth mother, but she was still in no position to raise you." and have myself truly know I did everything I could to help the family. I also hope for an open adoption with contact so that my children, and our birth mother, never have to wonder if they were really loved.

Adoption has a long way to go to reach where it should be. It's not evil, in and of itself, but the process and the ease of which people can be coerced are.

(This is a long rambling after STILL not hearing back from our social worker... it may veer slightly off topic and I apologize. Adoption wise we've had a rather stressful week.)

[SpeakNow]

I still think Lori from season 2 was completely coerced into placing her son for adoption.

[emmiedahl]

As a mother, I can't even imagine kicking my pregnant daughter out of the house. I think only a pretty crappy mother would do such a thing. She's going to have plenty of consequences no matter what she decides and seriously, the mother thinks she needs to impose more?

I guess it's a good thing I don't watch these programs.

I am watching it right now and I don't understand why this mom/grandma was not prosecuted for child abandonment or sued for child support. Her 16 year old daughter is a minor child and the parents have a responsibility to feed and house her. The girl was not a slacker, she worked and went to school and earned around $300 a month. That is enough to cover the baby's expenses if the mom/grandmother was actually holding up her end of the bargain by *not* abandoning a minor child.

Also, why was no one helping her? A new mother does need some help, regardless of her age. When I have a baby, my mother usually stays with me for a few days. And I am in my thirties. Her boyfriend is no help, why is no one offering her even the most basic emotional support?

The girl has plenty of consequences as it is. Since when is it appropriate to punish a child with homelessness and starvation?

[Dhani_C]

I've seen this episode and part of me believes the mom did the "if you get pregnant, you're out of my house" approach was because she wanted the teen to realize that there are consequences to getting pregnant. She knew her daughter was going to wind up coming back home, but she wanted to teach the kiddo a lesson and learn the hard, hard way. I think this was the best episode ever of "16 & Pregnant".

There was another episode during season 2 that featured a girl named Lori who was adopted herself and her adoptive parents encouraged her to pursue adoption because they basically laid it out that they were not going to support the baby. For them, they were pretty much of the attitude "You thought you were mature enough to have sex, so you now have to deal with the consequences of your decision on your own. We are not raising a child we did not decide to have." Most people thought it was cruel, but her parents told her if she was bound and determined to keep the baby then she would have to find a job and apartment. Lori tried, but it didn't pan out (her boyfriend was a loser as well). This tough love is what finally got through to her that she was in no way ready to raise a child and she ended up placing her son with an adoptive family. Sometimes it has to be done to prove a point and drive home the reality of their situation.

[emmiedahl]

There was another episode during season 2 that featured a girl named Lori who was adopted herself and her adoptive parents encouraged her to pursue adoption because they basically laid it out that they were not going to support the baby. For them, they were pretty much of the attitude "You thought you were mature enough to have sex, so you now have to deal with the consequences of your decision on your own. We are not raising a child we did not decide to have." Most people thought it was cruel, but her parents told her if she was bound and determined to keep the baby then she would have to find a job and apartment. Lori tried, but it didn't pan out (her boyfriend was a loser as well). This tough love is what finally got through to her that she was in no way ready to raise a child and she ended up placing her son with an adoptive family. Sometimes it has to be done to prove a point and drive home the reality of their situation.

Lori was coerced and basically forced into an adoption. Please do not make that sound like an acceptable action.

[Dhani_C]

I still think Lori from season 2 was completely coerced into placing her son for adoption.

I just posted about her! I don't think she was coerced as much as her parents just told her that they weren't going to support her and I don't blame them. We rip Michelle all the time for making her daughters raise her kids, why should this be allowable for a teen mother to make her mother take care of their child while their teenager goes out partying? (see Jenelle and Farrah (season 1, only)).

[Austin]

There was another episode during season 2 that featured a girl named Lori who was adopted herself and her adoptive parents encouraged her to pursue adoption because they basically laid it out that they were not going to support the baby. For them, they were pretty much of the attitude "You thought you were mature enough to have sex, so you now have to deal with the consequences of your decision on your own. We are not raising a child we did not decide to have." Most people thought it was cruel, but her parents told her if she was bound and determined to keep the baby then she would have to find a job and apartment. Lori tried, but it didn't pan out (her boyfriend was a loser as well). This tough love is what finally got through to her that she was in no way ready to raise a child and she ended up placing her son with an adoptive family. Sometimes it has to be done to prove a point and drive home the reality of their situation.

I don't watch the program, so I can't talk about the episode, but just generally speaking, I think that's crap. So "tough love" is what finally got through to her" to put her baby up for adoption? Sounds like "tough love" is a euphemism for "coercion" to me.

A good parent doesn't need to "prove a point" or "drive home" the reality of the situation. When her friends are partying, she'll be changing diapers. When her friends are going off to school, her options will be much more limited. She will have to grow up much faster and take on a lot more responsibility more quickly than she would have otherwise had to. There are enough natural consequences involved in a teen getting pregnant that nobody really needs to manufacture more.

[Austin]

I just posted about her! I don't think she was coerced as much as her parents just told her that they weren't going to support her and I don't blame them. We rip Michelle all the time for making her daughters raise her kids, why should this be allowable for a teen mother to make her mother take care of their child while their teenager goes out partying? (see Jenelle and Farrah (season 1, only)).

Uh, because as a parent, you are responsible for your child until he/she is at least 18 years old.

[emmiedahl]

I just posted about her! I don't think she was coerced as much as her parents just told her that they weren't going to support her and I don't blame them. We rip Michelle all the time for making her daughters raise her kids, why should this be allowable for a teen mother to make her mother take care of their child while their teenager goes out partying? (see Jenelle and Farrah (season 1, only)).

Farrah worked full time, went to school full time, and went out once or twice a week. If I recall correctly, the parents were okay with her going out occasionally as long as it was not with a boy. And then they flipped their shit. Didn't her mother hit her *on camera* and then she was convicted of assaulting her in another episode?

Jenelle is a fucking train wreck because she is a drug addict and has untreated mental illness. She is not representative of the rest of the community. There are options other than give up baby and go out every night while your parents babysit.

Reading all this makes me happy my mother is sane and actually thought about the future when I was a teen mom, instead of trying to punish me and impose consequences on top of the ones I was already struggling with.

[currywurst]

Lori was not coerced, she was shown the reality of her situation. The reality was that she was not in a position to care for a baby. The reason so many of the girls on this show opt to keep the baby, is because they know that grandma will be doing a great deal of the work. I see nothing wrong with the grandparents saying that they won't be helping to raise the baby. Hey, here's a argument all of you will love: it's THEIR decision not to! They did not make the baby; they don't have to raise it. If a girl wants to be a grown woman and make grown woman choices, then go ahead and allow her to do that. She can get an apartment with her boyfriend and they can raise the baby together. What's wrong with that?

[2xx1xy1JD]

I've seen this episode and part of me believes the mom did the "if you get pregnant, you're out of my house" approach was because she wanted the teen to realize that there are consequences to getting pregnant. She knew her daughter was going to wind up coming back home, but she wanted to teach the kiddo a lesson and learn the hard, hard way. I think this was the best episode ever of "16 & Pregnant".

I think the mom's approach was appropriate. The teen needed to learn that way, and I believe the mom knows her child well enough to know what lessons to give her.

I've seen way too many times teenagers having babies and get pregnant again shortly after. My own mother (unwed) had 2 children back to back, and her mother told her before she had the second child, that if you're grown enough to have one child and get pregnant again, you need your own place. And that was exactly what happened, my mom had to move out on her own. She met my dad (first 2 kids weren't his although he took care of them) shortly after and they didn't begin having children until about 5 years later.

This teen should have given that baby up for adoption, although not to that couple. Very creepy!! That lady looks like the type that would steal someone's baby or something. Ugh.

And she pissed me off chasing that junkie of a boyfriend in the streets to tell him she was in labor. WTH? And driving him to school when he missed the school bus! Andddddd thinking he was going to babysit the baby that time, so she could go to work. Her mom was correct in going about her business in that situation. Not her problem.

Sorry, there's no way I can support the "if you get pregnant, you're out of my house" approach, even though it seems to be common in some circles.

If you child is already pregnant, it's too late for that threat to be a deterrent.

Now, it is appropriate to make it clear that parenthood means taking on responsibilities, and that grandparents won't be responsible for doing everything or putting up with unacceptable behavior. That said, at 16 even the best kids won't have the ability to make a decent life for themselves and their baby without help and support. In many of my cases, it was that support that made all the difference in outcome. A girl living at home, if the home wasn't dysfuctional, could finish school and not struggle to provide basic necessities. She'd be less likely to make a cascade of bad decisions - less likely to feel compelled to move in with a loser boyfriend, to drop out of school, to start stripping or hooking, to have a transient lifestyle, etc.

[Austin]

Lori was not coerced, she was shown the reality of her situation. The reality was that she was not in a position to care for a baby. The reason so many of the girls on this show opt to keep the baby, is because they know that grandma will be doing a great deal of the work. I see nothing wrong with the grandparents saying that they won't be helping to raise the baby. Hey, here's a argument all of you will love: it's THEIR decision not to! They did not make the baby; they don't have to raise it. If a girl wants to be a grown woman and make grown woman choices, then go ahead and allow her to do that. She can get an apartment with her boyfriend and they can raise the baby together. What's wrong with that?

The reality of her situation was that she had crappy parents.

[emmiedahl]

When you have children, you get the privilege of assuming a lot of their consequences until they turn 18. That's the *legal* minimum, and I would place the bar for actual moral behavior much higher. You don't get to decide that you will not help them with the consequences of their behavior. If your kid burned down a house, you would be paying for it. If they have a baby, you need to continue offering the same level of financial support you gave before the pregnancy. Which includes a home and food and electric.

We obviously saw the Lori episode very differently, because her baby was pretty much torn out of her arms while she cried. It was very disturbing and she will be dealing with the emotional fallout for the rest of her life I imagine. I thought her parents were abusive.

[samurai_sarah]

Lori was not coerced, she was shown the reality of her situation. The reality was that she was not in a position to care for a baby. The reason so many of the girls on this show opt to keep the baby, is because they know that grandma will be doing a great deal of the work. I see nothing wrong with the grandparents saying that they won't be helping to raise the baby. Hey, here's a argument all of you will love: it's THEIR decision not to! They did not make the baby; they don't have to raise it. If a girl wants to be a grown woman and make grown woman choices, then go ahead and allow her to do that. She can get an apartment with her boyfriend and they can raise the baby together. What's wrong with that?

Do you personally know those girls? If not, how can you say that their reason to keep their babies was knowing that grandparents would do the work? Or do they explicitly say that on the show?

[2xx1xy1JD]

Lori was not coerced, she was shown the reality of her situation. The reality was that she was not in a position to care for a baby. The reason so many of the girls on this show opt to keep the baby, is because they know that grandma will be doing a great deal of the work. I see nothing wrong with the grandparents saying that they won't be helping to raise the baby. Hey, here's a argument all of you will love: it's THEIR decision not to! They did not make the baby; they don't have to raise it. If a girl wants to be a grown woman and make grown woman choices, then go ahead and allow her to do that. She can get an apartment with her boyfriend and they can raise the baby together. What's wrong with that?

What's wrong is that most parents wouldn't want their non-pregnant 16 yr old leaving home and moving in with a boyfriend. It places everyone at increased risk.

I haven't ever seen these shows, but the fathers seem to leave a lot to be desired. What if the couple fight - and with 2 teens, esp. ones that suddenly have to deal with a baby, that's a strong possibility. Would I ever want my daughter in a situation where she could feel trapped? What if the baby is exposed to parental conflict? What if an immature and irresponsible teen dad gets angry and hurts the baby? What if the teen mom - who may be stressed out without support and lacking someone who would catch the signs - ends up with PPD and hurts or neglects the baby?

How are teenagers supposed to pay for rent on top of caring for a baby and going to school?

[Austin]

What's wrong is that most parents wouldn't want their non-pregnant 16 yr old leaving home and moving in with a boyfriend. It places everyone at increased risk.

I haven't ever seen these shows, but the fathers seem to leave a lot to be desired. What if the couple fight - and with 2 teens, esp. ones that suddenly have to deal with a baby, that's a strong possibility. Would I ever want my daughter in a situation where she could feel trapped? What if the baby is exposed to parental conflict? What if an immature and irresponsible teen dad gets angry and hurts the baby? What if the teen mom - who may be stressed out without support and lacking someone who would catch the signs - ends up with PPD and hurts or neglects the baby?

How are teenagers supposed to pay for rent on top of caring for a baby and going to school?

Well, you know, they should have thought about that before. . . :roll:

[emmiedahl]

Do you personally know those girls? If not, how can you say that their reason to keep their babies was knowing that grandparents would do the work? Or do they explicitly say that on the show?

The chief motivation for giving up their babies is that they were going to be homeless because their parents no longer felt they had to provide shelter for a minor child. That is fucked up, about 8000 different kinds of fucked up.

[StarrieEyedKat]

I just posted about her! I don't think she was coerced as much as her parents just told her that they weren't going to support her and I don't blame them. We rip Michelle all the time for making her daughters raise her kids, why should this be allowable for a teen mother to make her mother take care of their child while their teenager goes out partying? (see Jenelle and Farrah (season 1, only)).

Who's saying the grandparents should watch the baby while the teen goes out to party? I'm pretty sure not one person here is arguing for that.

[Dhani_C]

Uh, because as a parent, you are responsible for your child until he/she is at least 18 years old.

It's still not the grandma's job to raise a child she didn't opt to have. Barbra (Jenelle's mom) said it best: "I didn't choose to become a mom at 55!" Is it wonderful if a parent is willing to help out their pregnant teen? Of course! But they aren't obligated to support their grandchildren- that's their child's job.

[emmiedahl]

It's still not the grandma's job to raise a child she didn't opt to have. Barbra (Jenelle's mom) said it best: "I didn't choose to become a mom at 55!" Is it wonderful if a parent is willing to help out their pregnant teen? Of course! But they aren't obligated to support their grandchildren- that's their child's job.

Morally, and possibly legally, it *is* your responsibility to support your minor child, even if you disapprove of their reproductive choices. And why are we pretending that the grandmothers are raising the children? That happened in Jenelle's case, but it would have happened if she had been 10 or 20 years older because she is untreated bipolar. Would throwing the baby on the street have somehow made the situation better?

eta: Most of the moms on this show, who are a pretty sorry cross-section of the Teen Mom population imo, actually do the raising except for the grandparents pinch-hitting a bit with work schedules. Babysitting your grandbaby is not a punishment. Grandparents do it all the time, and no one has a problem if the mom is a married adult.

[currywurst]

Um well, at the very least most of the girls are sure mom and dad will be paying for everything - that's a HUGE chunk of the work right there. Then we have seen girls who live the baby with grandma all day while they go to school. Of course I do not personally know the girls. What a totally asinine question. We're talking about a TV show. I am talking about something I saw on a TV show.

I highly doubt so many of these girls would keep their babies if they knew they were going to be all on their own, or relying on the father. But, you're right, I do not know any of them personally. Probably most of them (and the fathers) were clearly all set to get their own place, get jobs, and care for their baby all on their own if the situation called for it.

[Dhani_C]

The reality of her situation was that she had crappy parents.

Would you want to essentially raise another child when you're 55+ and getting ready to retire?

[Austin]

Would you want to essentially raise another child when you're 55+ and getting ready to retire?

Well, if you aren't prepared to finish raising your own child at 55+, then you had no business having a teen at that age.

[samurai_sarah]

Um well, at the very least most of the girls are sure mom and dad will be paying for everything - that's a HUGE chunk of the work right there. Then we have seen girls who live the baby with grandma all day while they go to school. Of course I do not personally know the girls. What a totally asinine question. We're talking about a TV show. I am talking about something I saw on a TV show.

I highly doubt so many of these girls would keep their babies if they knew they were going to be all on their own, or relying on the father. But, you're right, I do not know any of them personally. Probably most of them (and the fathers) were clearly all set to get their own place, get jobs, and care for their baby all on their own if the situation called for it.

If you don't know them, how dare you presume to speak for them? What a ridiculous thing to do. :roll:

[Feberin]

Anyone else think Alex's mother would have actually allowed her to come home from the hospital with the baby and move back home? The way when she couldn't make rent that her mother quickly allowed her to move in and then threw a party for her makes me think the "you can't live here if you keep the baby" was an empty threat. Not that it wasn't wrong that she wasn't using that threat to try to force her daughter into choosing adoption but that when it came down to it she wasn't about to have her sixteen year old daughter on the streets.