Adoption coercion on 16 and Pregnant

[MadameX]

Last night on 16 and Pregnant I was really horrified by the position the girl was in. I know there are critics of adoption who post here from time to time and I was wondering if anyone else saw it (you can watch it on the MTV website if you're interested - episode 5, Alex), and what you thought.

Here are the most horrifying things to me -

1) The girl tried to get Plan B but didn't because, at $50, she considered it too expensive.

2) It sounds like she was well into her second trimester, i.e. past the point at which abortion would be a viable option, when she found out she was pregnant.

3) Her mother did not handle things well at all, and while she had a good point about planning/responsibility, I felt like she was awful to Alex.

4) Her friend's parents offer to adopt her baby was just super creepy.

5) She clearly wants to keep her baby and people still pressure her to give it up (which, frankly, would be better but I do not believe in coercion of a pregnant woman to force her hand).

6) She actually had to get in the car and chase down the baby daddy while in labor to get him to respond to her texts that the baby was on the way.

7) I am pretty sure they drove the baby home from the hospital in a car seat that is not meant for newborns. Also, they handle her like a rag doll. I am not really experienced with babies but OMG.

8) Without giving away the ending, um, everything that happens after she gets the baby home. That baby daddy is a nightmare. The neighbor landlady thing was a nightmare.

It is just truly heartbreaking and I wish people would see it and understand that we need to make pregnancy prevention and abortion safer, more affordable, and more accessible. But also, I think we need to stop stigmatizing unwed, young mothers. They shouldn't be forced into these situations in which their choices are bad, or worse. Children shouldn't be a punishment, they should be a choice made without fear or coercion.

[QAF_Rocks]

Haven't seen that episode yet, but the pressure can run both ways. Kianna on 16 and Pregnant and Amanda on True Life: I'm Placing My Baby for Adoption both faced significant pressure not to go with adoption, and both ended up keeping the babies even though it was clear it wasn't their first choice.

[Buba]

Haven't seen that episode yet, but the pressure can run both ways. Kianna on 16 and Pregnant and Amanda on True Life: I'm Placing My Baby for Adoption both faced significant pressure not to go with adoption, and both ended up keeping the babies even though it was clear it wasn't their first choice.

I didn't watch these episodes. There was a couple in the first season of 16 and pregnant (Tyler and Catelynn) who faced pressures to keep the baby, but in the end they managed to place the child for adoption. They are also featured in "Teen Mom". I must say they seem very mature compared to the other couples in the show and are the only ones who didn't break up. They receive news from their daughter every six months, she was in one of the episodes and is the cuttiest thing ever!

[emmiedahl]

Catelynn and Tyler's situation made me sad because they seemed very firm on the idea of adoption and I got real tired of Butch bitching about them "giving their baby away". They made a hard decision that was right for them. I was a teen mom and I firmly believe that if this happens to one of my kids, they should get 100% support no matter how they decide to handle the pregnancy. I was pressured by my father to abort and my mom told him to go fly a kite (maybe in harsher words than that).

It is upsetting that someone might be pressured into this permanent, life altering choice when what they really need is a lot of support and a little space.

[1004srs]

I watched this last night. Awful episode. That poor, poor little girl. She trieds so hard to do what she believes is the right thing.

Her Mom is an arse - at least until she allows her daughter to move back home. I can't imagine telling your child that not allowing a baby in her home is a form of birth control - when she's 37 weeks pregnant.

SO much pressure on this little girl from everyone.

[currywurst]

Well I guess I am in the minority here, but I think that pretty much all the girls on 16 and Pregnant would give themselves AND their baby a much better life if they put it up for adoption. There a lots of loving, caring, financially stable, mature couples who are looking to adopt. Why not let that baby be raised in that environment, instead of the one the girls on this show will provide? And I have seen plenty of this show. The girls are generally pretty awful moms. The dad is usually still a kid himself, and you only feel sorry for the poor baby, knowing what its life will be like. I 100% support adoption for pregnant teen girls. I wish more would consider it.

[1004srs]

The little girl from last nights episode needed a counselor or some other type of 3rd party to help her with her decision.

Her Mom was just awful about the adoption thing.

[currywurst]

Did not see the episode (live in Berlin), but I think you have a point about counseling. I do not know legally how you could enforce it, but it really seems that all pregnant minors (and the father) should get some serious counseling.

[samurai_sarah]

Well I guess I am in the minority here, but I think that pretty much all the girls on 16 and Pregnant would give themselves AND their baby a much better life if they put it up for adoption. There a lots of loving, caring, financially stable, mature couples who are looking to adopt. Why not let that baby be raised in that environment, instead of the one the girls on this show will provide? And I have seen plenty of this show. The girls are generally pretty awful moms. The dad is usually still a kid himself, and you only feel sorry for the poor baby, knowing what its life will be like. I 100% support adoption for pregnant teen girls. I wish more would consider it.

But there's a difference between coercing one of them, and merely wishing/hoping they would consider it, and make the choice that's best for them. No one should be forced to give up a baby.

ETA to clarify: I wish they'd consider their options, so I don't think you're necessarily a minority.

[currywurst]

No one CAN be forced to give up their baby. Adoption is a process and you can even revoke your decision at the last minute. No one can be forced to give up a baby for adoption. That is ridiculous. However, a teenage girl with absolutely no life experience absolutely, positively needs mature adults influencing her decision. She is not exactly capable of making a good decision on her own (see pregnancy with dumbshit BF).

Adoption is all about what is in the best interest of the baby, and most teenager girl think only of themselves. That is why is is perfectly acceptable to put LOTS OF PRESSURE on a pregnant teen to put her baby up for adoption. We're talking about a child's whole life here. This is not the time to be laid-back about anything.

[MonkeyMomma]

No one CAN be forced to give up their baby. Adoption is a process and you can even revoke your decision at the last minute. No one can be forced to give up a baby for adoption. That is ridiculous. However, a teenage girl with absolutely no life experience absolutely, positively needs mature adults influencing her decision. She is not exactly capable of making a good decision on her own (see pregnancy with dumbshit BF).

Adoption is all about what is in the best interest of the baby, and most teenager girl think only of themselves. That is why is is perfectly acceptable to put LOTS OF PRESSURE on a pregnant teen to put her baby up for adoption. We're talking about a child's whole life here. This is not the time to be laid-back about anything.

Wow dude. Just, wow.

Yes, in general, teens need positive, mature adults in their life who can be a good influence. That kind of influence can help reduce teen pregnancy, access contraception and Plan B, and help with pregnancy decision making, absolutely. Yes, teens are developmentally not past their risk taking and egocentric phase. But teens are still humans and teen mothers are still MOTHERS. After 41 weeks of pregnancy and 24 hours of labor, I would have rather had all my limbs removed without anesthesia than given my baby away. With proper support and education, teen parents CAN be good parents. Yes, it is a child's whole life, but it is that child's mother's whole life, too.

[samurai_sarah]

No one CAN be forced to give up their baby. Adoption is a process and you can even revoke your decision at the last minute. No one can be forced to give up a baby for adoption. That is ridiculous. However, a teenage girl with absolutely no life experience absolutely, positively needs mature adults influencing her decision. She is not exactly capable of making a good decision on her own (see pregnancy with dumbshit BF).

Adoption is all about what is in the best interest of the baby, and most teenager girl think only of themselves. That is why is is perfectly acceptable to put LOTS OF PRESSURE on a pregnant teen to put her baby up for adoption. We're talking about a child's whole life here. This is not the time to be laid-back about anything.

Okay, we do differ. For one thing, girls and women in the past have been forced to give up their babies (see Magdalen Laundries). For another, seriously? You are the arbiter of when it is, and when it isn't acceptable to pressure a pregnant woman? Your decision overrides the decision of a woman, who genuinely (just as genuinely as you) believes that it's in her baby's best interest to keep it? And you get to decide who is, and who isn't fit for a mother? Whatever next? Let's pressure blind women, because they might not see some sort of danger? Let's pressure deaf women, because they can't hear their kid scream?

I'm all for providing options, but I am far more into providing support to teen mothers who have made choices. I support adoption, and I support giving those teens who choose to keep their kids all the support they need to be good parents. Just writing them off, and saying they'll be "bad parents" anyway, is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[currywurst]

Look, I feel badly for the moms who give their babies up for adoption. No doubt that is horribly heart-wrenching. I never said that these girls were not human beings and mothers. They are. I totally agree that putting a baby up for adoption is a very difficult thing, but it is generally what is in the best interest of the baby AND the mom. The baby can be raised in a good home, and the mom can get an education, grow up, and then have children again when she is ready for them. My point is that a 16 year old really does not understand all this. It happens on this show again and again. The teen moms are always SHOCKED at how hard raising a baby is. They are stressed and depressed about it. They are always SHOCKED that dipshit BF is still a total dipshit. These are all things that were obvious to that adults. That is why I think it is totally acceptable for the adults in the family to put pressure on the girl to give the baby up for adoption. You cannot exactly REASON with any of the girls that are featured on this show. I have yet to see one that has all that much sense.

Adoption is not a bad thing, it is a good thing. Those girls that do put their babies up for adoption - the ones who decided to give their babies a better chance at life - are, in my opinion, heroes. It is a really difficult, totally selfless thing to do, which is why I am always so impressed with the ones who do it. They are able to see that they are not in a position to give their child a very good upbringing. That takes a lot of self-criticism, which is hard for even a relatively mature adult, much less a teen girl.

[currywurst]

Okay, we do differ. For one thing, girls and women in the past have been forced to give up their babies (see Magdalen Laundries). For another, seriously? You are the arbiter of when it is, and when it isn't acceptable to pressure a pregnant woman? Your decision overrides the decision of a woman, who genuinely (just as genuinely as you) believes that it's in her baby's best interest to keep it? And you get to decide who is, and who isn't fit for a mother? Whatever next? Let's pressure blind women, because they might not see some sort of danger? Let's pressure deaf women, because they can't hear their kid scream?

I am not talking about Ireland in 1950. Please do not change the facts to support your argument. I am also not talking about blind or deaf women. Again, I am talking about teenage moms. I do not think that every teenage mom needs to give her baby up for adoption. Some are certainly capable of providing their baby with a good upbringing. But I have seen enough on this show and in real life, to know that is the exception to the rule. What is wrong with putting pressure on a minor child in your care to do what is best for them and an innocent baby? Why is that bad? Because she is PREGNANT? I don't get it. No one has to give their baby up for adoption. That is their choice. You cannot force an adoption under the laws of the US.

I have known several women who gave up their babies for adoption and they all say the exact same thing: that at the time they did not want to, that they were pressured to do so by their families, and that now they are SO GRATEFUL that they were pressured to do it. They all say the same damn thing: that they were too young and immature at the time to raise a baby and that the adoption was absolutely the best choice.

[samurai_sarah]

I am not talking about Ireland in 1950. Please do not change the facts to support your argument. I am also not talking about blind or deaf women. Again, I am talking about teenage moms. I do not think that every teenage mom needs to give her baby up for adoption. Some are certainly capable of providing their baby with a good upbringing. But I have seen enough on this show and in real life, to know that is the exception to the rule. What is wrong with putting pressure on a minor child in your care to do what is best for them and an innocent baby? Why is that bad? Because she is PREGNANT? I don't get it. No one has to give their baby up for adoption. That is their choice. You cannot force an adoption under the laws of the US.

I have known several women who gave up their babies for adoption and they all say the exact same thing: that at the time they did not want to, that they were pressured to do so by their families, and that now they are SO GRATEFUL that they were pressured to do it. They all say the same damn thing: that they were too young and immature at the time to raise a baby and that the adoption was absolutely the best choice.

Learn from history? My point with the Magdalen Laundries is that we should learn from experience - an awful lot of those women were traumatised by the institutionalised pressure put on them. What you're suggesting is going the same way, and you make yourself the arbiter of who is, and who isn't a good mother on the basis of one fact- age. Same thing happened in the Magdalen Laundries, the girls were told that their kids were going to have a better life than they could ever give them.

By way of the same anecdata you provide, I can provide examples of teen pregnancies that turned out well. The difference I see between those on "16 & pregnant" and the ones I know, is that the latter had an awful lot of support from their families, and assorted institutions. Things worked out, because the adults around the teens realized that they needed help and support, and NOT even more stress. So, whose anecdata is right? Anecdata proves nothing.

[apple1]

Last night on 16 and Pregnant I was really horrified by the position the girl was in. I know there are critics of adoption who post here from time to time and I was wondering if anyone else saw it (you can watch it on the MTV website if you're interested - episode 5, Alex), and what you thought.

Here are the most horrifying things to me -

1) The girl tried to get Plan B but didn't because, at $50, she considered it too expensive.

2) It sounds like she was well into her second trimester, i.e. past the point at which abortion would be a viable option, when she found out she was pregnant.

3) Her mother did not handle things well at all, and while she had a good point about planning/responsibility, I felt like she was awful to Alex.

4) Her friend's parents offer to adopt her baby was just super creepy.

5) She clearly wants to keep her baby and people still pressure her to give it up (which, frankly, would be better but I do not believe in coercion of a pregnant woman to force her hand).

6) She actually had to get in the car and chase down the baby daddy while in labor to get him to respond to her texts that the baby was on the way.

7) I am pretty sure they drove the baby home from the hospital in a car seat that is not meant for newborns. Also, they handle her like a rag doll. I am not really experienced with babies but OMG.

8) Without giving away the ending, um, everything that happens after she gets the baby home. That baby daddy is a nightmare. The neighbor landlady thing was a nightmare.

It is just truly heartbreaking and I wish people would see it and understand that we need to make pregnancy prevention and abortion safer, more affordable, and more accessible. But also, I think we need to stop stigmatizing unwed, young mothers. They shouldn't be forced into these situations in which their choices are bad, or worse. Children shouldn't be a punishment, they should be a choice made without fear or coercion.

I watched that episode at some ridiculous time during the night when I couldn't sleep. It was definitely a "train wreck" of bad circumstances for that poor girl, and poor baby. I fell asleep and missed the final 10 minutes, so I don't know how it turned out in the end.

Mostly I don't watch that show, except if it is the only thing I can find besides infomercials during the night when I can't sleep.

[Dhani_C]

Well I guess I am in the minority here, but I think that pretty much all the girls on 16 and Pregnant would give themselves AND their baby a much better life if they put it up for adoption. There a lots of loving, caring, financially stable, mature couples who are looking to adopt. Why not let that baby be raised in that environment, instead of the one the girls on this show will provide? And I have seen plenty of this show. The girls are generally pretty awful moms. The dad is usually still a kid himself, and you only feel sorry for the poor baby, knowing what its life will be like. I 100% support adoption for pregnant teen girls. I wish more would consider it.

I'm with you in that minority. A sixteen year old is neither mentally, emotionally, or physically prepared to care for a baby and neither is the father in most cases (depending on his age). My mom sees patients like these all the time in the hospital where she works. There was an incident once where this sixteen-year-old decided on adoption, had the adoptive parents picked out halfway through the pregnancy, had the adoptive parents pay for everything and come to the hospital when the baby was born, but then decided after the couple had the baby for three days (they had named it, their family had come to visit the child, and they may have already take it home, I'm not sure) that she didn't want to give it up and took the child back. The reason she took it back? Her mom got out of jail and was going to help her.

[currywurst]

Hello....I conceded that some teens are perfectly capable of raising a child. The reason that adoption cannot be forced in the US, and the reason you can change your mind at the last minute, is because we HAVE learned from history. That is why there is a ten year long wait list to adopt! Look, I totally agree that it would be great if these moms have more support, but most do not. The home life is bad, they have little education, the father is a loser, etc. I wish we could change that, but I am not holding my breath. That is why I support adoption for teen moms. I do not think all teen moms should give up their baby for adoption (I never said that), but it needs to be more seriously considered. My issue is that most teen moms are not very mature or reasonable. They simply do not understand the situation they are in, and that is why they need mature adults putting some pressure on them to do what is best. I have seen many episodes of this show and to me, the vast majority of the girls look like they are suffering from depression. Not one of them has come across as a happy person. They seem to think that having the baby will give them some joy, and it does - to a certain extent, but then they always seem even more depressed when they see that did not happen. I always think: damn it would have been nice for that baby to have been raised by a committed, happy, stable couple and for that girl to get the mental help she needs.

But, you know, we do not want her to "feel bad" or anything like that!

[hahe77]

The girl in this weeks 16 and pregnant has no support system. Her boyfriend was a stoner who seemed to justify his lack of being around (and being sober) with wanting to give the baby up for adoption. Her mom refused to change her plans when a sitter was needed (which I was happy she did). Teenage mom didn't know where she was living or doing at 40 weeks. Heck, she didn't even have a sitter for baby for when she went back to work. She put sleeping baby in the crib so she could chase after baby daddy down the street to scream at him.

While the teen loves her baby, it takes more than that to raise a child. She should have picked a family (not her friends family) to adopt the baby. Break away from stoner boyfriend, finished high school and made her dreams come true.

[Deleted03]

Look, I feel badly for the moms who give their babies up for adoption. No doubt that is horribly heart-wrenching. I never said that these girls were not human beings and mothers. They are. I totally agree that putting a baby up for adoption is a very difficult thing, but it is generally what is in the best interest of the baby AND the mom. The baby can be raised in a good home, and the mom can get an education, grow up, and then have children again when she is ready for them. My point is that a 16 year old really does not understand all this. It happens on this show again and again. The teen moms are always SHOCKED at how hard raising a baby is. They are stressed and depressed about it. They are always SHOCKED that dipshit BF is still a total dipshit. These are all things that were obvious to that adults. That is why I think it is totally acceptable for the adults in the family to put pressure on the girl to give the baby up for adoption. You cannot exactly REASON with any of the girls that are featured on this show. I have yet to see one that has all that much sense.

Adoption is not a bad thing, it is a good thing. Those girls that do put their babies up for adoption - the ones who decided to give their babies a better chance at life - are, in my opinion, heroes. It is a really difficult, totally selfless thing to do, which is why I am always so impressed with the ones who do it. They are able to see that they are not in a position to give their child a very good upbringing. That takes a lot of self-criticism, which is hard for even a relatively mature adult, much less a teen girl.

I absolutely differ on everything you say, I absolutely think too that YOU cannot judge what is best for those babies and those moms.

I just want to say that being shocked about the amount of work a baby is, is certainly not an indicator of being ready or not to have a baby. My 29 year old friend had a baby last october. Her first. and she told me she was SHOCKED that she really could not finish her dissertation while in the same house that the baby is in. That she truly thought she would be able to get work done. That in fact now she is just completely exhausted and when she gets a break from the baby she just wants to sleep, after she managed to order the house or clean spit, etc, etc. and her husband is there with her! So I really don't think it's limited to teen mom that having a baby is more work than you would ever imagine, and I don't think it tells us anything about the choice to keep a baby.

I think a lot of mothers can step up to their child and become responsible and good mothers, and taking away this (and their baby, flesh and blood) from them by forcing them into adoption is vile.

[currywurst]

I'm with you in that minority. A sixteen year old is neither mentally, emotionally, or physically prepared to care for a baby and neither is the father in most cases (depending on his age). My mom sees patients like these all the time in the hospital where she works. There was an incident once where this sixteen-year-old decided on adoption, had the adoptive parents picked out halfway through the pregnancy, had the adoptive parents pay for everything and come to the hospital when the baby was born, but then decided after the couple had the baby for three days (they had named it, their family had come to visit the child, and they may have already take it home, I'm not sure) that she didn't want to give it up and took the child back. The reason she took it back? Her mom got out of jail and was going to help her.

That story is tragic. I do not think people who grew up in a good home or with decent parents can truly understand how bad many of these teen moms have it. Coming from a background like this is the norm for a teen mom. I think some people make the fallacy of looking back on themselves as teenagers and think, hey I was not that bad, I totally could have raised a baby. I was a decent enough teen too. I was really not that immature. I ate a good diet, did well in school, avoided bad boys, planned to go to college, etc....which explains why I did not become a teen mom. Most teen moms have shitty home lives. They have a baby and then give that baby a shitty home life. It is an endless cycle. I guess that is the main reason I wish adoption was way more common - it is one way to break the cycle. Personally I would prefer birth control and education, but hey, what are you gonna do?

[Deleted03]

I agree that the mom just played it really weird, because in the end I still thought she was a down to earth, loving mother. It was weird that she pushed so much for adoption and then when she agreed to take her back home she was well you did not plan anything! From what we saw her mom would only agree to talk about adoption with her.

I thought the creepy friend's parents were, well creepy. First, it seems like the worst idea to be, well you can decide when you have the baby, when she's around. If she bounds with the baby how is she going to give her up. And I think it was obvious all along that she could not bring herself to give the baby up. The father has huge drugs issues, it's incredible. I hope he gets help and gets his life in order for that girl.

[currywurst]

I just want to say that being shocked about the amount of work a baby is, is certainly not an indicator of being ready or not to have a baby. My 29 year old friend had a baby last october. Her first. and she told me she was SHOCKED that she really could not finish her dissertation while in the same house that the baby is in. That she truly thought she would be able to get work done. That in fact now she is just completely exhausted and when she gets a break from the baby she just wants to sleep, after she managed to order the house or clean spit, etc, etc. and her husband is there with her! So I really don't think it's limited to teen mom that having a baby is more work than you would ever imagine, and I don't think it tells us anything about the choice to keep a baby.

No doubt. But your adult, married, educated friend was able to cope with the pressure in a mature, responsible way. That is the difference between her and most teen moms. She did not give her baby to her own mom so she could go out and party. She did not just ignore the baby, etc, etc, etc....

[samurai_sarah]

Hello....I conceded that some teens are perfectly capable of raising a child. The reason that adoption cannot be forced in the US, and the reason you can change your mind at the last minute, is because we HAVE learned from history. That is why there is a ten year long wait list to adopt! Look, I totally agree that it would be great if these moms have more support, but most do not. The home life is bad, they have little education, the father is a loser, etc. I wish we could change that, but I am not holding my breath. That is why I support adoption for teen moms. I do not think all teen moms should give up their baby for adoption (I never said that), but it needs to be more seriously considered. My issue is that most teen moms are not very mature or reasonable. They simply do not understand the situation they are in, and that is why they need mature adults putting some pressure on them to do what is best. I have seen many episodes of this show and to me, the vast majority of the girls look like they are suffering from depression. Not one of them has come across as a happy person. They seem to think that having the baby will give them some joy, and it does - to a certain extent, but then they always seem even more depressed when they see that did not happen. I always think: damn it would have been nice for that baby to have been raised by a committed, happy, stable couple and for that girl to get the mental help she needs.

But, you know, we do not want her to "feel bad" or anything like that!

I agree to some extent, but I still wouldn't make myself arbiter on right or wrong. Who are you or I to say who is or isn't a good mother? However, your last sentence just killed it. It's not about "feeling bad", but about very real implications and trauma that may prevent a teen to seek counsel, after they've been pressured. I've seen the show (not the episode in question) and stand amazed not at the teens, but at the adults around them. Teens are immature, but they're not inherently bad. They're trying to make the best of a situation that's stressful. And within the context of the show, usually, they're surrounded by adults who are often less than helpful. Cue Butch's constant whining about Catelynn and Tyler giving up their baby. Or the mother who asked her formerly anorexic pregnant daughter to go on a diet with her. Well, even adults aren't the best judges, are they?

In the real world, no situation is just cut and dry. Your and my conflicting anecdata shows that. What's good for one, is bad for the other. Teen parents aren't selfish, they genuinely try to do what's right. It's not about making them "feel bad" in the short term, but about helping them to do whatever is right for them, and their kids. And that's why I believe they need the freedom, and support (NOT pressure), to make choices that are good for all involved.

[samurai_sarah]

Inappropriate curiosity, sorry.