Adoption coercion on 16 and Pregnant

[currywurst]

Yeah, but that is only if you give them permission to drive. You do not have to give your teen permission to drive. Driving is one of those narrow exceptions. In most cases, however, parents are NOT liable for their children's torts. Also, from a bald reading of that law, you are only liable if you gave them permission to drive. If they snuck off and drove without your permission, then you aren't.

I just want to make it clear though that parents are not liable for every bad thing their kid does. In fact, in most cases they are not.

[Dhani_C]

That statutes I quoted specifically include negligence.

It sucks being the parent of a teen. They have the capability to make some big, costly mistakes, and we as parents are indeed the ones left with the bill.

That's why my parents didn't allow my siblings and I to get our driver's licenses until we were 18. 16 is far too young to let someone behind the wheel, IMO.

[emmiedahl]

Yeah, but that is only if you give them permission to drive. You do not have to give your teen permission to drive. Driving is one of those narrow exceptions. In most cases, however, parents are NOT liable for their children's torts. Also, from a bald reading of that law, you are only liable if you gave them permission to drive. If they snuck off and drove without your permission, then you aren't.

I just want to make it clear though that parents are not liable for every bad thing their kid does. In fact, in most cases they are not.

Per the statute above, if you allow them to get a license, you are liable. If you allow them to drive, regardless of their having a license, you are liable. If they drive without a license it is willful misconduct, and again you are liable.

[Haligh the Liar]

This episode pissed me off so much- Alex seemed to be somewhat responsible, more so after the baby was born, but her boyfriend was a deadbeat stoner idiot. This is the sort of thing to be considered beforehand, for both guys and girls- if you have and raise a child with this person, will they be a good partner and parent?

I know this opinion is unpopular, but I think parents have every right to push for abortion/adoption if their teen gets pregnant, because in many, if not most, cases, the grandparents do end up providing housing, food, childcare, etc. It is important for new parents to have support from family and friends, but if it turns out that support is all the bills and lots of childcare, then grandparents shouldn't be forced to take on that responsibility.

If I ever have kids, I plan to be open and honest about sex and help get birth control, but if a pregnancy does occur, I will be completely upfront about encouraging abortion, or failing that, adoption.

ETA: I remember the Lori episode, and I was so so glad that she ended up placing the baby for adoption. She seemed extremely immature and unaware of the reality of parenting, and it was obvious to me that her parents were likely to end up doing the majority of the work.

[kb2]

Sure I suppose that is possible, but most traffic accidents are the result of negligence, or at worst, recklessness. Very rarely is a traffic accident the result of a willful act. I will concede that some traffic accidents are the result of someone running someone down, or something like that, but that is quite unusual. So I would give kudos to any lawyer who could make a good case for that, but it would be pretty hard to show.

You don't have to prove the teenager willfully hurt someone, you only have to prove that they willfully broke a law that led to someone's death/injury/damage to personal property. So you say they willfully ran a stop sign instead of accidentally. You have a devastated, grieving family on one side, and an irresponsible, selfish, petty teenager who made an incredibly stupid traffic error that lead to someone's death on the other. It seems only right that money should be transferred from the teenager's family to the family of the deceased. All the lawyer has to prove is that the teenager--exactly the type of person who would willfully run a stop sign out of their youth and stupidity--willfully ran a stop sign.

This is assuming there isn't an exception in California law that specifically lists traffic accidents or something that overrules the willful misconduct law, I haven't combed through all of California law.

[BelieveinScience]

Actually, a quick Google search reveals that when you sign for your child's license (they require a parent signature for under-18), you are thereby assuming responsibility for damages they may cause while driving. You are also responsible for any damages they cause in a vehicle you allow them to use. If the child does not have a license or permission to use the car, then they are guilty of that willful misconduct I referenced earlier.

Oh, and I looked. A minor child who is living independently (a teen mother was used as an example) is entitled to child support from her parents. She is also entitled to child support from her baby's father, and from his own parents if he is unable to pay it.

emmiedahl is correct.

My brother got into a car accident when he was under 18 and the person who he hit is suing my parent's insurance company and if the insurance company can't handle it then they'll be going after my parents.

[Dhani_C]

This episode pissed me off so much- Alex seemed to be somewhat responsible, more so after the baby was born, but her boyfriend was a deadbeat stoner idiot. This is the sort of thing to be considered beforehand, for both guys and girls- if you have and raise a child with this person, will they be a good partner and parent?

I know this opinion is unpopular, but I think parents have every right to push for abortion/adoption if their teen gets pregnant, because in many, if not most, cases, the grandparents do end up providing housing, food, childcare, etc. It is important for new parents to have support from family and friends, but if it turns out that support is all the bills and lots of childcare, then grandparents shouldn't be forced to take on that responsibility.

If I ever have kids, I plan to be open and honest about sex and help get birth control, but if a pregnancy does occur, I will be completely upfront about encouraging abortion, or failing that, adoption.

ETA: I remember the Lori episode, and I was so so glad that she ended up placing the baby for adoption. She seemed extremely immature and unaware of the reality of parenting, and it was obvious to me that her parents were likely to end up doing the majority of the work.

Well-stated.

[sassyNoz47]

I thank god for adoption I wouldn't be where I am today had it not been a option, I don't even want to think about what would of happened. I'm glad some women make that choice if it is THIER choice.

That girl's mom on the episode really gave her no option I felt so bad for her. It was like give her up or you can't live here. I really thought she would cave and do it. The baby daddy was such a loser though! WAs there ever a scene he WASN'T stoned in. I wanted to slap some sense into that kid.

Did anyone see last years episode with the girl who gave her baby up? Not Ty and Cate this was another girl lived with her sister and single mom. The mom seemed well educated and to have a decent job but she pretty much forced the teen to give her baby up. She even had family who lived in another state ready to adopt the baby, finally the teen gave in gave up the baby. However she wasn't ever ok about it and blogged alot about how she wanted her baby. Finally the aunt who had the baby read the blog and she agreed to let the teen have the baby back as a trial run. The teen's mom was not happy about it and she seemed IMO to make things as hard as she could for the teen mom. I think she kept the baby a good month and then finally with her mom's pressure finally gave the baby back to her aunt and the adoption was final. However the teen is still not ok with giving her baby up , that episode was the hardest yet I think to watch.

[Austin]

You can sue for wrongful death in the case of a car accident. Who gets sued? The teenager's parents. It damned sure is true.

I guess we can all cancel our high-priced umbrella policy which *may* save our ability to have some sort of a financial future if one of us, including our sons when they were minors, accidentally kills someone in an auto accident. :shock:

Who knew?

Srsly, though, if you are raising teens and especially if they're driving, you should really have an umbrella policy to protect your assets. Ours was a $1M for a policy, which we raised to $2M when they started driving. It's actually one of the best values in property/casualty insurance. Because you certainly can be sued for accidental death caused by your teen and it happens all the time.

*takes off insurance hat*

[Austin]

Yeah, but that is only if you give them permission to drive. You do not have to give your teen permission to drive. is one of those narrow exceptions. In most cases, however, parents are NOT liable for their children's torts. Also, from a bald reading of that law, you are only liable if you gave them permission to drive. If they snuck off and drove without your permission, then you aren't.

I just want to make it clear though that parents are not liable for every bad thing their kid does. In fact, in most cases they are not.

*loud buzzer*

Wrong again. If your fourteen-year-old with no license whatsoever takes your car out of the driveway one night on a joyride and hurts/kills someone or damages property, you (your insurance) are liable. You are personally liable for any amount over the policy limit.

[Austin]

Yeah, but that is only if you give them permission to drive. You do not have to give your teen permission to drive. Driving is one of those narrow exceptions. In most cases, however, parents are NOT liable for their children's torts. Also, from a bald reading of that law, you are only liable if you gave them permission to drive. If they snuck off and drove without your permission, then you aren't.

I just want to make it clear though that parents are not liable for every bad thing their kid does. In fact, in most cases they are not.

Have you raised teens, by any chance?

Do you have a background in insurance or the law?

On what basis are you making anything "clear"?

[lexiloumarie]

I think you may be referring to me. I brought up an experience my mother had (she works in family care) where the teen mother had picked out an adoptive family halfway through the pregnancy and had them pay for everything including her pre-natal care only to take back her child three days after it was born (because her mother, who had been in jail until that point for drug charges, convinced her to keep it and they'd raise it together (father of said child skipped town).

I doubt the couple was thinking about the money after this occurred.

Then I'm really really not sure what your point was.

[emmiedahl]

Yeah, but that is only if you give them permission to drive. You do not have to give your teen permission to drive. Driving is one of those narrow exceptions. In most cases, however, parents are NOT liable for their children's torts. Also, from a bald reading of that law, you are only liable if you gave them permission to drive. If they snuck off and drove without your permission, then you aren't.

I just want to make it clear though that parents are not liable for every bad thing their kid does. In fact, in most cases they are not.

I am not sure how you get that from this:

17707. Any civil liability of a minor arising out of his driving a motor vehicle upon a highway during his minority is hereby imposed upon the person who signed and verified the application of the minor for a license and the person shall be jointly and severally liable with the minor for any damages proximately resulting from the negligent or wrongful act or omission of the minor in driving a motor vehicle

[moreorlessnu]

Did anyone see last years episode with the girl who gave her baby up? Not Ty and Cate this was another girl lived with her sister and single mom. The mom seemed well educated and to have a decent job but she pretty much forced the teen to give her baby up. She even had family who lived in another state ready to adopt the baby, finally the teen gave in gave up the baby. However she wasn't ever ok about it and blogged alot about how she wanted her baby. Finally the aunt who had the baby read the blog and she agreed to let the teen have the baby back as a trial run. The teen's mom was not happy about it and she seemed IMO to make things as hard as she could for the teen mom. I think she kept the baby a good month and then finally with her mom's pressure finally gave the baby back to her aunt and the adoption was final. However the teen is still not ok with giving her baby up , that episode was the hardest yet I think to watch.

Are you thinking of Ashley?

ashleydsalazar.com

[ellerigby]

I just want to make it clear though that parents are not liable for every bad thing their kid does. In fact, in most cases they are not.

I'm not an expert on this area of the law by any means, but from what I remember from law school tort class and studying for the bar in my state, parents certainly are liable for their children's actions, usually beginning around age 8-10 through 18.

This isn't the greatest source, but a quick google search turned up this overview: http://www.enotes.com/family-law-refere ... hild-s-act

To summarize the link (and my memory), parents are often held civilly liable for damages caused by most of their children's willful acts (it's a kind of vicarious liability). This usually comes up in personal injury and vandalism cases. In the arena of criminal law, some states require parents to pay their children's court fees in criminal cases, and even all the costs amounted while the child is going through the juvenile system. So yeah, being the parent of a teenager can really suck.

Edited for riffles.

[SoybeanQueen]

I haven't watched it, but I did some quick research on the car seat issue (because I'm a child passenger safety technician, and I've already shared my adoption opinions in other threads). It sounds like the baby was in either a Graco My Ride 65 or a Cosco convertible. Either of those are fine to use rear-facing, so as long as the baby wasn't a 4 lb preemie or something, it was an OK choice for a newborn. Most people prefer a bucket seat for the portability, but it's not a necessity as long as the baby fits in the convertible properly.

The couple of pics I saw told me that she isn't using the seat correctly, though. Unfortunately, if you don't bother to strap your baby in correctly, the type of seat can become irrelevant when the baby flies around the vehicle in a crash.

[sassyNoz47]

Are you thinking of Ashley?

ashleydsalazar.com

yes thanks!

[Elle]

Well I guess I am in the minority here, but I think that pretty much all the girls on 16 and Pregnant would give themselves AND their baby a much better life if they put it up for adoption. There a lots of loving, caring, financially stable, mature couples who are looking to adopt. Why not let that baby be raised in that environment, instead of the one the girls on this show will provide? And I have seen plenty of this show. The girls are generally pretty awful moms. The dad is usually still a kid himself, and you only feel sorry for the poor baby, knowing what its life will be like. I 100% support adoption for pregnant teen girls. I wish more would consider it.

I agree that babies of teens, and the teens themselves, are usually better off with adoption, but not quite for the same reasons. Many mature/older couples are loving and caring, but get pregnant unintentionally at an unstable time, or things get unstable. But they make it work for all involved.

Teen parents raising babies are more likely to end up in poverty, if they aren't already since most teen parents don't marry, you're going to have parents not capable of earning enough money, and for moms especially, this time to gain experience lost isn't always possible to recover. I was born to teen parents who ended up making it work, got married, and got out of poverty. I still remember my parents worrying all the time and feeding me while not eating themselves. It was HARD and only thanks to a lucky break they were able to put my mom through school to get a medical job. Sadly most teen parents don't do so well, and would be better off with their children adopted. Of course few who keep them would agree, because who wants to say keeping the child they love was wrong, even when it's a life of poverty?

The best scenarios are easy access to cheap or free birth control and supportive families. You can bet if our daughter got pregnant we'd do all we could to help her and making sure she still got the education needed to do what she wants to earn money (whether that is college, a trade school, or something else), and help raise the baby as long as needed. But sadly many parents kick their kids out and have conditional love for their kids.

[Witsec7]

Gah, Ashley Salazar, I followed her blog for a while. FWIW she's back with her daughter's father.

[Deleted03]

Gah, Ashley Salazar, I followed her blog for a while. FWIW she's back with her daughter's father.

MTV should have provided councelling from the beginning, it's such a shame on them that they did not. They actually disgust me. Seriously that girl had a post at some point saying she did not feel it would help her, and some dumbtwit commented on her post, oh yeah you're right it so did not help when I went. I nearly lost my temper that day. Like seriously? Who are you to post that? That girl needs help, and help came way too late. I can't believe someone is watching her show and still touting that it is OK to force teens into adoptions.

[Arielkay]

As far as the insurance issues goes, I was in a wreck at 18. It was a fender bender and I was at fault - I goofed and didn't look properly when leaving a stop sign. An ambulance chasing lawyer called the guy and got him to sue my parents. They had me covered under their insurance at that time as I was a college student and didn't yet have a job. So, yeah, they're going to go for the deep pockets.

It was extremely traumatizing. The paperwork they sent had my name all over it, and they accused me of purposely injuring this guy (insurance company paid for all his chiropracter appts - the guy walked away from the very minor in town accident), and sued for damages to his car (he drove a RENTAL). The insurance company still paid them because it was cheaper than taking the jerk to court. So, yes, parents can be liable.

[Feberin]

I haven't watched it, but I did some quick research on the car seat issue (because I'm a child passenger safety technician, and I've already shared my adoption opinions in other threads). It sounds like the baby was in either a Graco My Ride 65 or a Cosco convertible. Either of those are fine to use rear-facing, so as long as the baby wasn't a 4 lb preemie or something, it was an OK choice for a newborn. Most people prefer a bucket seat for the portability, but it's not a necessity as long as the baby fits in the convertible properly.

The couple of pics I saw told me that she isn't using the seat correctly, though. Unfortunately, if you don't bother to strap your baby in correctly, the type of seat can become irrelevant when the baby flies around the vehicle in a crash.

I'm not a car seat expert but I saw the show. I agree that the car seat they were using was fine it was how they were using it. In one scene where they brought her home from the hospital the straps were so loose the baby looked like it was about to fall out of the seat. I am frequently disturbed by the poor use of car seats on 16 and Pregnant/Teen Mom. And it's not just the teens because I've seen children poorly put into car seats when it's the grandparents who put them into the car. Also at the hospital I had my son we had to have somebody check to make sure that we had him correctly in the seat this was after we'd already had the seat inspected by the fire department, which they inquired about at the hospital. It's a shame that isn't done at all hospitals.

[Austin]

I'm not a car seat expert but I saw the show. I agree that the car seat they were using was fine it was how they were using it. In one scene where they brought her home from the hospital the straps were so loose the baby looked like it was about to fall out of the seat. I am frequently disturbed by the poor use of car seats on 16 and Pregnant/Teen Mom. And it's not just the teens because I've seen children poorly put into car seats when it's the grandparents who put them into the car. Also at the hospital I had my son we had to have somebody check to make sure that we had him correctly in the seat this was after we'd already had the seat inspected by the fire department, which they inquired about at the hospital. It's a shame that isn't done at all hospitals.

We've raised three kids but when the grandkids come along, we will definitely be going to the fire station to get a refresher course. Equipment has changed and so much time has elapsed since I've operated a car seat, I wouldn't feel secure about it until a professional had checked our installation.

[ilovetchotchkes]

I'm not a car seat expert but I saw the show. I agree that the car seat they were using was fine it was how they were using it. In one scene where they brought her home from the hospital the straps were so loose the baby looked like it was about to fall out of the seat. I am frequently disturbed by the poor use of car seats on 16 and Pregnant/Teen Mom. And it's not just the teens because I've seen children poorly put into car seats when it's the grandparents who put them into the car. Also at the hospital I had my son we had to have somebody check to make sure that we had him correctly in the seat this was after we'd already had the seat inspected by the fire department, which they inquired about at the hospital. It's a shame that isn't done at all hospitals.

OH G_D, my mother my MOTHER the other day took my son, and was having trouble figuring out the seat, and decided NOT TO BOTHER STRAPPING HIM IN, until my sister stepped in and screamed at her. My mother's attitude "nothing would have HAPPENED".

:shock:

[currywurst]

What was the name of the girl who had the twin girls? Damn those car seats were flopping around.

Guess I am totally strange, but if I had a baby, I would be obsessed with making sure the car seats were properly installed.