Closeted Atheists

[Lady]

My boyfriend is an athiest and he is open about it. It always angers me when people say he must be immoral since he doesn't believe in God he has no ethical code. He is one of the most ethical people I know, more so than the hypocritical Christians I know.

[NurseNell]

My dad is a lawyer in southern West Virginia. He is a closeted atheist (or maybe he considers himself agnostic, I'm not sure) because most of his clients are very rural and conservative and he doesn't want to alienate them. He used to play country music in his waiting room for similar reasons. :D

My brother lives in rural WV. He's very redneck. He has his pickup and guns. He's an atheist. He's voted Republican his whole life until 2008 when he voted for Obama, and he's voting for him again. I guess if he ever needs a lawyer I should get your Dad's name to refer him to. ;)

[Swamptribe]

Sadly, there is just such a social stigma with being an atheist that the majority of non-believers stay in the closet. I came out as an atheist years ago, and have been harassed because of it. Even suspect I lost a job because of it. (couldn't prove it) Atheists are the number one hated religious minority in society today. This is one reason that I believe it is important that atheism be recognized as a religious belief, so that atheists can be legally protected from those who would abuse them.

[fluttershies]

Sadly, there is just such a social stigma with being an atheist that the majority of non-believers say in the closet. I came out as an atheist years ago, and have been harassed because of it. Even suspect I lost a job because of it. (couldn't prove it) Atheists are the number one hated religious minority in society today. This is one reason that I believe it is important that atheism be recognized as a religious belief, so that atheists can be legally protected from those who would abuse them.

Uh, I think Islam is WAY more hated in the US at least.

[Swamptribe]

Actually, no, Atheists are more hated, by both Christians and Muslims.

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigo ... sHated.htm

[lilwriter85]

My boyfriend is an athiest and he is open about it. It always angers me when people say he must be immoral since he doesn't believe in God he has no ethical code. He is one of the most ethical people I know, more so than the hypocritical Christians I know.

I've dealt with those types types of comments over the past couple of years and it is annoying. Some people will always think that ethics and morals come from believing in a deity.

[Feberin]

If somebody I know decently well asks me then I will say that I am an atheist. If I get asked by a random stranger especially one that I think is trying to convert me then I'll say "I was raised Catholic", which is true or lie and say Catholic if they seem like they'll be pushy (people going door to door to tell me about God). The topic has never come up with my extended family, decent amount of friends and most coworkers. I don't feel like I'm lying to friends and family about being an atheist but I don't feel the need to shout it from the rooftops or anything. When I was younger such as in high school I was far more vocal about my beliefs and had people argue with me that there was no way I could be an atheist because I was "too nice".

[BelieveinScience]

I've dealt with those types types of comments over the past couple of years and it is annoying. Some people will always think that ethics and morals come from believing in a deity.

If the only reason someone is being a good moral ethical person is because God told them to they are being a good person for the wrong reasons. You should be a good person because it makes you feel good to help others not because God says you should be a good person.

I've been told that I couldn't be a good person because I don't believe in God.

[Lady]

If the only reason someone is being a good moral ethical person is because God told them to they are being a good person for the wrong reasons. You should be a good person because it makes you feel good to help others not because God says you should be a good person.

I've been told that I couldn't be a good person because I don't believe in God.

Exactly! Religion is one orgin of ethics, but then how do we explain how so many religions preach similar ethics across cultural lines? It's because don't sleep with someone else's spouse, don't kill people, don't pick on the defenseless are universal human situations. Morals and ethics comes from within, they may or may not be enforced by a religious belief.

[Swamptribe]

For a long time when people asked my religion I told them I was a UU (Unitarian Universalist). This tended to stop 'em cold because most people don't know what that is and were to embarrassed to ask. Also used to say 'agnostic' but this usually resulted in somebody trying to convince to accept god, sigh. (Please stop using Pascals wager people, it's a bad bad argument) Now a days, I'd probably describe myself as a Secular Humanist.

What's sad is that so many of us are uncomfortable with just publicly stating "I'm an atheist". It's too much like painting a target on our foreheads.

[Boogalou]

Actually, no, Atheists are more hated, by both Christians and Muslims.

http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigo ... sHated.htm

Here is another article about that: http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/20 ... ligiosity/

I think Muslims may face more outward discrimination and hatred than atheists because they are more visibly Muslim, for lack of a better way of describing it. When people see Middle Eastern people or women wearing a headscarf they can just assume they are Muslim (whether it is true or not) but atheists aren't that readily identifiable. I still haven't gotten my uniform :(

[Witsec7]

On the religious forums I participate in atheists are reviled more than Muslims, perhaps because no Muslims post there and we are visible targets. I must say hooray for Boregonia, we placed #43 as a least religious state. Funny thing is ya can't swing a cat without hitting a fundy in my college town.

[NurseNell]

On the religious forums I participate in atheists are reviled more than Muslims, perhaps because no Muslims post there and we are visible targets. I must say hooray for Boregonia, we placed #43 as a least religious state. Funny thing is ya can't swing a cat without hitting a fundy in my college town.

This seems so strange to me. I live in a liberal area where it's live and let live. I can't think of any place I've lived as an adult where atheists were reviled. Maybe I just don't see it. My mother actually came from a long line of atheists. Her Dad was one, he was born in 1862, not raised in any church because his parents were atheists.

[Swamptribe]

Spending way to much time on the internet today.

On a Christian forum I once posted too, a Muslim poster once thanked the Atheists and the liberal Christians for distracting the fundies from their hatred of Muslims. It was actually pretty damn funny, and pissed off the moderators no end.

[bananacat]

For years I called myself a "non-believer" because I didn't want to be associated with the A-word. There is definitely some backlash and some people will assume things about you if you use that label. I now use that label because it's what I am and I have decided not to let outsiders define it or me.

I am semi-closeted. My mom sort of has a don't ask, don't tell policy. She doesn't bring it up but I think she suspects. She is active in her liberal church and I have no desire to de-convert her or convince her to leave. She knows I don't go to church. I do go with her on Christmas Eve for a variety of reasons, and I generally enjoy it.

At work, I just try not to bring it up. If I were asked directly, I would admit that I'm an atheist. But I just know there are certain people who would make a big deal of it and make it their pet project to "save" me. In general I just don't make it known if I disagree with someone at work. I just don't need the hassle of someone preaching at me, whether it's religion or politics. I guess I'm also a closet liberal too, because there's one guy who always assumes that conservative is the default and says horrible things about liberals/liberalism constantly. I have absolutely no desire to have an argument with him, especially since he will never be convinced of anything. So I just don't bother telling him that I'm liberal and he doesn't try to convert me to conservatism and we're both happier that way. I'm sure he also assumes I'm Christian as a default and again, I have no desire for him to try to tell me how wrong I am. He is being impolite for bringing up politics and religion in polite company in the first place, and I'd rather just politely change the subject rather than add to a conversation that should have never been started.

[Ozzie]

A good friend of mine, not knowing I was atheist, declared over a beer one day that atheists had no morals and shouldn't be allowed to marry. HW Bush said that atheists shouldn't be allowed to vote. My brother (to whom I am not out) has dropped a pile of hostile comments about how atheists are without morals are values and are just too lazy to really do the reading and figure out what to think. Friends of mine can't come out to their families for fear of being disowned, and friends who have come out can't go home. In large parts of American culture, being an atheist is no big. In some pockets, it is a great big honking deal.

[RR88]

I'm not atheist, though I know many lovely people who are. I dated one, and he was (and is) a terrific guy. As for an "atheist uniform", you can always wear a red A pin (that's what my ex does). The "G-d" thing is silly, in my opinion. I think it's a good thing when people are open about their beliefs (or disbeliefs); as time progresses, atheists will become less and less shunned.

[FlorenceHamilton]

I grew up in a large Northeastern urban center. There were always all sorts of cultures around me coexisting pretty normally. During the time I lived in this sort of environment, I was happily a member of my tribe without actually believing anything in the old stories. I really saw the bible as an anthropology text (still do). There was often festivals of all different sorts from various cultures. It was not unusual at all to attend a variety of these festivals and enjoy the human experience.

During the GWB years, there seemed to be a change, even in the liberal northeast. People got a lot quieter about their non-protestant colorful ways. It was fairly subtle. Maybe 911 was partly to blame too. For the first time, I felt that I was "different". I was different for being born Jewish and that was odd enough.

Then I moved to rural South Carolina to treat poor people. What a culture shock. I had never seen so much homogeneity before. For the first time, I decided to study Christianity. I did know the basics of the story of Jesus and I was fairly familiar with Catholicism because of the post immigrant population where I grew up. But I had relatively little exposure to the very Scots-Irish/French/English/northwestern european brand of super white Protestants. (I know that sounds weird because that is the majority of this country.) The more I studied this topic, the more fascinated I became. The whole world made sense in a different way. I learned about Calvinism and Arminiansim and all sorts of other post reformation debates. I spent time with my English translation of the Tanach and my KJV Bible side by side to see the differences in the language of the OT and then to read the KJV by itself. I am not a bible scholar, but I did read most of it all through.

I studied the history of the reformation and how it politically influenced the development of Europe and eventually leaked out onto the American Continents. The more I studied, the more apparent to me that the bible stories were propagandized to control the masses. The god of the bible turned out to be a real petty and small minded guy and the Jesus story started to really feel more and more manipulative to me. Then I was forced to look at the religion of my birth. It was very unnerving to realize that your brand, your team, your tribe is just as guilty of atrocity in the name of its deity as any of the others. I became an atheist while completely immersed in the Bible Belt. I was surrounded by deeply believing people who went to church regularly and invoked the name of god all day long. These were truly god fearing people. Lots of them went to tent revivals too. They were wonderful people in many ways as long as they thought you were one of them. So I smiled and nodded A LOT. But I watched these people all day, every day. And they did lots of things that seemed to be evidence that they believed these things in a very convenient way. I saw the cherry picking of verses. I saw the people who felt they had exceptions to things that looked pretty clear to me. Vocally anti-abortion, I was shocked to find that many of the women had terminated pregnancies in secret as if the secrecy shielded them from the sin. Drunkenness was common on Saturday night and yet on Sunday morning, the very same people would go on about the evils of alcohol. I could go on.

I do not wish to argue about the generalizations that I just made about the people where I served. There were exceptions to this pattern. I truly enjoyed these people on the whole and I have made wonderful friends. However, the generalization is an accurate depiction of day to day life. And thinking about it now, I wonder how many of the people I saw were talking the talk for the same reason that I smiled and nodded.

Anyway, that is how I became a full on atheist. I am not antitheist. I just want to come out of the closet. In South Carolina, it could have been truly dangerous to do so. Now I live in Florida. It is sort of like mixing South Carolina with New Jersey then shaking it up and watching what happens next. But at least I am coming out of the closet.

That's my story.

[browngrl]

The story of your journey was interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[JesusFightClub]

Yeah, thanks Florence! I find this really interesting.

People at my work know my politics (which I do not keep a secret) and from that could maybe guess my lack of religion, if they cared. But they don't.

If I was a Christian and went round discussing it, that would be like me discussing my bra size. It would be weird and make people think "I don't know what to say". It could even be interpreted as sectarian, if I was pushing it on others.

We have some Muslims at work who dress in traditional clothing or hijab etc and all is cool. They will tell you about stuff if you ask but aside from that are just your normal friendly work colleagues.

[Petronella7]

I am a Christian but have nothing against atheists. But I am shocked and disgusted by the number of "closeted" atheists who are working as ministers, if those numbers cited upthread are to be believed. :shock: A person like that is being very dishonest with their congregation and should do the right thing and find another line of work.

[AtroposHeart]

I am closeted as well. You do not want to be an open atheist in Alabama

[WanderingStar]

Interesting topic. As some of you might know, I'm not an atheist, but I don't really fall into the typical line of Christian thinking, either. More simply, I tend to be rather liberal. I try to approach Biblical texts and doctrines with a careful, critical mindset while still retaining my faith. I guess if I really needed to make up a term to accurately describe my religious mindset I'd call it Christian Universalist, but on a form I'd probably just put down Christian. In other words, I myself tend to believe in the Abrahamic God and His son Jesus and live by Jesus' teachings, but I'm more than willing to accept the possibility that there might be some other deity or life force as the highest power, and my own personal belief on salvation is that anyone that believes in love and can feel love and compassion for their fellow man will be karmically rewarded/saved and bound for heaven. If there is such a thing as hell or purgatory there are probably way less people there than in heaven. :) But I could spend the longest time trying to explain what I mean about that and will leave it for another day.

However, I do live in the Deep South, and while I'm not having to stash away my beliefs as much as an atheist would, I am still having to keep a lot of things closeted. First but least of my worries is the fact that I don't view the Bible in as much of a literal context as most people around here do, for example the Creation story and how long a day really was in that time. Coinciding with that is the fact that I believe in both the Creation story (in a metaphorical sense, obviously) and evolution. I don't know why it has to be either/or for Creationists. Evolution is proven scientific fact, while Creationism is a religious belief on the world's beginning. It shouldn't be so hard for the two to be reconciled and also understood why Creationism-only science education is wrong, but that discussion's also best reserved for another day. The one issue that has probably caused me the most controversy though is being actively pro gay rights while also being openly Christian. My brother believes that homosexuality is a sin even though he isn't actively anti gay rights (at least, I don't think he is), and an ex friend of mine was homophobic to the point that she said my uncle, who is homosexual, is an abomination himself and deserves to die for it...I'm surprised I didn't punch her lights out. I did, however, yell at her in front of everyone and publicly shamed her for how hatefully she was behaving and in the process ended up surprising other kids at school with how loud I could get, considering that I was one of the quietest students there. I guess the fact that I'm in favor of gay rights is the one thing that has caused others to question my religion, which is sad because it shows how badly the fundies and most vocal evangelicals have tarnished the reputation of Christianity.

Wow, that turned out longer than I thought it would O_o but my point is, I may not be a closeted atheist, but depending on where I am, I'm often a closeted Christian, usually just keeping quiet about it to keep the peace amongst my family members or friends. My friends range a wide variety of faiths, with several atheists and agnostics, to quite a few liberal Christians, a few conservative Christians, a couple of Wiccans, and at least one Jew, plus a close ex-Mormon friend who's been an invaluable source of information into the faith. Recently, my aunt joined the Jehovah's Witnesses, so I've got that to be considerate of too. You can see why in my melting pot of loved ones, it's sometimes easier just to butt out. I'll be honest about my beliefs if someone asks about them, but I definitely try not to proselytize.

As to answer the topic's question, it's possible that there are more atheists out there than most people let on about themselves, but it's also possible that they're not sure what to call themselves, as just as there's varying levels of belief, there are also varying levels of non-belief, as demonstrated here on FJ frequently.

And for the record, this is probably the most I've ever explained myself on a theological topic like this in a long while, and I have the overall tolerant vibe of FJ to thank for that. :)

[Swamptribe]

Wandering Star, I understand your pain. Liberal Christians are almost as hated by the more fundie types than non-believers. They seem them as apostates, as a bigger threat than non-believers. I have seen some liberal Christians viciously attacked on Christian forums.

[pomology]

The only person in recent memory that I remember feeling uncomfortable telling that I don't believe in God (though, really, more of an apatheist, because I, too, don't really give a shit either way) is my very Catholic co-intern from last summer. That's because she was just VERY religious (most people I know are lukewarm about religion at best) and we kind of bonded over teaching each other about our religions (she told me about Catholicism and I told her about Judaism). It got kinda awkward when she would ask me questions about the Messiah and heaven and hell and following laws because God might punish you otherwise, because Jews just don't talk about those things in general. But also because I don't believe in God or an afterlife and I had no idea how to explain to her how that worked with Judaism.

But, otherwise, I'm cool telling people that I don't believe in God. Even my Rabbis. Although I prefer to describe my religious beliefs with the Golda Meir quote "I believe in the Jewish people and the Jewish people believe in God" mostly because it shows that Judaism is really important to me, but God, not so much, even though it's technically party of Judaism.

Hell, I gave a Dvar Torah (literally, word of Torah, basically like a sermon) at my synagogue where I straight up said that God was not the most important part of being Jewish.

I find many people who find it important to call themselves atheists as obnoxious and abrasive about religious beliefs, even relatively liberal benign ones. People who are quieter about it are generally more of "Live and let live" mindset. I don't think all people who aren't out there being "I'm an atheist" are necessarily closeted. They just don't care enough either way about religious beliefs to go out announcing it.