"Work it out with your rapist..."

[valsa]

Well lookie here, aren't these nice little finds from the "I Don't Understand How This Man Isn't In Jail tread from the Chatter forum:

I particularly loved the dialog about Zimmerman's race/ethnicity .

Now where's all the outrage for this (rhetorical question)? I mean you want him to die, make remarks that could be construed as racist, and make derogatory remarks about certain places. And now people want to jump on my ass about my comments on what should happen to a POS rapist? If it weren't for the fact that these are 2 very sad cases, this would be hilarious.

I recognize that I made at least one of those comments (maybe two) and I stand by them. There is no reason anyone should be raped. There are reasons that some people should be killed (self-defense being an obvious one, the death penalty being a debated one) If you want to debate against the death penalty, then by all means- do so.

[Guest Anonymous]

I do know this - my point was that I think Geniebelle doesn't, and is stereotyping.

Cindy

I'm 50, 51 later this year. How old are you?

The bolded bit -

And your point is?

Geniebelle, why not put the shovel down. The hole's just geting deeper.

I didn't write the bolded part.

[Elle]

Oh well we only think bad guys deserve this - how many men in prison for a sexually based offense are innocent?

I have a friend who was one of those guys. His friend bragged about raping a girl, he turned the guy in. The guy's family had money to hire a damned good attorney who spun it to make it seem like my friend did it, and even the victim said she'd never seen my friend before. The rich guy's attorney spun it something like he used a mask or something stupid that shouldn't have held water (I read a bunch of the court papers, and that lawyer could be a politician), and my friend was jailed and the other guy walked. He was released five years later when the victim finally got the charges overturned (she was horrified that the innocent one went to jail while her rapist walked, especially the innocent one who turned in the rapist), but he was still kept on the sex offender registry. I met him when he was fighting to be taken off. It took a decade after being released to finally get off the registry. I was there when he got the call that his name was removed effective immediately. He went to Megan's List online and put in his name, and...he wasn't there. He tried so hard not to cry. But he failed. I cried for him.

Yes, innocent men end up in jail, men who did nothing wrong. This is why I'm against the death penalty. Who knows how many innocent people are behind bars while the real perps walk free. We can't undo killing people. We can't give back the time the innocent lost. We can't subject inmates to inhumane treatment just to make sure the guilty pay the price. What we do instead is when someone is found innocent, pay them money in compensation. Nothing is truly adequate, but this is better than killing or raping the innocent.

[formergothardite]

Genie, did you lie when you wrote me that pm? And are you saying that rape is justified when a lot believe the person being raped deserve it?

[JesusFightClub]

Obvious troll is obvious. I now reckon Geniebelle is gloating every time someone replies to her because she's "wound up the Free Jinger hags". I shouldn't have, I find the thought of rape as punishment horrible which is why I did, and I will not again.

The death penalty topic is an interesting one. Although I am pro DP under certain circumstances, for rape I am not so sure. It seems to be wrong in the example it sets and wrong because of present conviction rates and the nature of the offence.

[dairyfreelife]

Gee, that's original. Odd how you can't seem to fathom that just because something is common doesn't mean it's not offensive. I'm pretty sure a few decades ago calling a black man "boy" was common in some places of the country, but that doesn't mean it wasn't offensive as hell.

Is it really that hard to see that calling an adult woman you don't know (or any that you do know but who hasn't given you permission to do so) "girl", "baby", "honey", "sweetie", "dear" is a problem? Especially the first two, as they imply she is a child and should be treated as such? I don't think the ones who see this as a problem are the ones who've been demeaned.

I've never thought about girl as a demeaning word. I hear people use girl and boy to adults, but it's usually in a friendly manner, not rude. Honey and sweetie, the only people I tolerate that from is my parents and older relatives because they tend to say it in a caring manner and it's not demeaning. Random people saying it annoys me because I feel like they are trying to talk down to me in doing so. Because I am very short (under five feet) and am sort of thin, I look young for my age so I get enough inappropriate comments as it is and talked down to so yeah, it's annoying.

The baby thing is very annoying. I always find it so weird and very awkward when people call their SO baby. My sister's phone shows up with my babi when her bf texts her and I just always felt that it was very strange to call a young adult your baby, but that might be just me.

As for dear, I've never had much issue with that because where I live it's said a lot and by anyone to any gender and any age so it's not weird to me and never had a demeaning connotation. I could see girl and dear being demeaning in some contexts though and especially in these SAHD and submissive circles we read about, I do think girl is meant to be demeaning.

[formergothardite]

I was actually ready to give her another chance after she sent me that pm. Having come out the same sort of mindset I know how hard it can be when your beliefs are challenged and she did seem sincere in her apology. She even admitted that it was crap that she had said about me, yet here she isno time later saying the exact same things. It obviously wasn't a real apology and she didn't mean any of it.

[Artemis]

@ Geniebelle:

No, I know you didn't, that was Cindy. She could do with explaining her comment, I think. It was silly and snippy, and I'm surprised she doesn't know there are lots of 'the older generation' here and they object to demeaning language as much as the 'younger generation'.

My 'put the shovel down' was to you after your post about the Zimmerman thread. I'm not sure you're doing yourself any good, and a cooling off period might be an idea.

Alternatively, if you want to continue the fight, you could try answering some of the questions you have been asked.

It's eleven pm here and I'm going to bed, so I'll reply in the morning to anything else you want to say.

@JFC :roll: Too old and too tired to get wound up by the obvious. I never know about the death penalty. Sometimes I think yes, for some things, and then I think- would I carry it out? If I wouldn't, can I call for it? What would you be pro it for, if you don't mind me asking? (being Royalty, being a capitalist, being an aristocrat . . . OK, I am teasing, I'm not dissing your politics.)

Dammit, I have to go to bed, I have to be up at five.

ETfix typo

[keeperrox]

God, sometimes the stupidity I see here astonishes me. I'm gonna let you figure that out on your own.

So, genie, you are flat out saying that some people deserved to be raped? Would you say that to their face? You're probably the most pathetic little troll we've had in a while.

[Guest Anonymous]

Genie, did you lie when you wrote me that pm? And are you saying that rape is justified when a lot believe the person being raped deserve it?

No, not lying, and yes the POS deserves it, just like Zimmerman's ass needs to be fried for killing that young boy. I'm sorry you and just about everybody else here disagrees with that.

[keeperrox]

No, not lying, and yes the POS deserves it, just like Zimmerman's ass needs to be fried for killing that young boy. I'm sorry you and just about everybody else here disagrees with that.

How are being raped in prison and "fried" the same thing? Oh wait, that's right. They're not.

[Guest Anonymous]

So, genie, you are flat out saying that some people deserved to be raped? Would you say that to their face? You're probably the most pathetic little troll we've had in a while.

Put that sorry POS within earshot and I will definitely tell him what he deserves.

[cindyluvs24]

During hubby's last hospital stay, the nurses would call me sugar as in "Don't worry sugar, he's doing fine," and "All right hon, I'll tell the doctor to look at that port." It is not an automatic put-down and should not be taken as such. (and these "gals" were younger than some of my coats and shoes.) Now, had the doctor referred to me that way, I would have educated him, but among females of a certain age, its no big thing. FWIW, they referred to him that way, as well. One person referred to my husband as "look at your bad self!" which my son translated as "I'm happy to see you up and walking around" as he shuffled past the nurse's station.

[valsa]

I've never thought about girl as a demeaning word. I hear people use girl and boy to adults, but it's usually in a friendly manner, not rude.

This is all rehashing from the previous thread on this but "girl" doesn't have to be used in a rude way to be demeaning. The problem is that it's so ingrained in our society that we don't even think about its usage and what it implies. We use it in a friendly way without ever realizing it's demeanding. Basically, if you wouldn't walk up to a group of adult women and say "Hello, female children", why would you do the same thing but substitute "Hello, girls"? (or "Hello, female infants" for "babies")

[cindyluvs24]

Alternatively, I remember when it was the norm to refer to the secretary or any other female employee as "the girl" , regardless of her age. I would agree emphatically that it was / is demeaning and unprofessional in a work environment.

[dairyfreelife]

@ Geniebelle:

No, I know you didn't, that was Cindy. She could do with explaining her comment, I think. It was silly and snippy, and I'm surprised she doesn't know there are lots of 'the older generation' here and they object to demeaning language as much as the 'younger generation'.

My 'put the shovel down' was to you after your post about the Zimmerman thread. I'm not sure you're doing yourself any good, and a cooling off period might be an idea.

Alternatively, if you want to continue the fight, you could try answering some of the questions you have been asked.

It's eleven pm here and I'm going to bed, so I'll reply in the morning to anything else you want to say.

@JFC :roll: Too old and too tired to get wound up by the obvious. I never know about the death penalty. Sometimes I think yes, for some things, and then I think- would I carry it out? If I wouldn't, can I call for it? What would you be pro it for, if you don't mind me asking? (being Royalty, being a capitalist, being an aristocrat . . . OK, I am teasing, I'm not dissing your politics.)

Dammit, I have to go to bed, I have to be up at five.

ETfix typo

Can't speak for JFC about the death penalty, but I think some people should get it, yes. I think serial killers deserve it and it's for the better of society that they aren't alive to ever harm anyone again. Very dangerous sociopaths with no hope of rehabilitation probably do too. I only see it as positive when the person in question poses a major threat to society if ever released or they escape. Outside of that, I'm not really for it personally. JFC will have to give her own reasons as to why she thinks it's okay.

[valsa]

Exactly. During hubby's last hospital stay, the nurses would call me sugar as in "Don't worry sugar, he's doing fine," and "All right hon, I'll tell the doctor to look at that port." It is not an automatic put-down and should not be taken as such. (and these "gals" were younger than some of my coats and shoes.) Now, had the doctor referred to me that way, I would have educated him, but among females of a certain age, its no big thing. FWIW, they referred to him that way, as well. One person referred to my husband as "look at your bad self!" which my son translated as "I'm happy to see you up and walking around" as he shuffled past the nurse's station.

I'm glad my nursing school nipped that shit in the bud. Any of the nursing students who tried that would have been taken aside and given a very, very strong talking to. And no, I don't buy the "s/he is too old to change" excuse for why it's okay from older people.

[formergothardite]

No, not lying, and yes the POS deserves it, just like Zimmerman's ass needs to be fried for killing that young boy. I'm sorry you and just about everybody else here disagrees with that.

What exactly are the crappy things thay you said to me that you now feel bad about saying? Because you are saying a lot of the same things in this thread.

I'm not asking you to take religious advice from me, I'm saying this is what Jesus clearly said, and why do you, as one of his followers, not want to do as He commanded? Why do you say I will never do as Jesus said in certain situations?

[dairyfreelife]

This is all rehashing from the previous thread on this but "girl" doesn't have to be used in a rude way to be demeaning. The problem is that it's so ingrained in our society that we don't even think about its usage and what it implies. We use it in a friendly way without ever realizing it's demeanding. Basically, if you wouldn't walk up to a group of adult women and say "Hello, female children", why would you do the same thing but substitute "Hello, girls"? (or "Hello, female infants" for "babies")

I think I missed that thread. I just never thought about as demeaning because I've never heard intended that way, but I could see it being that way. I always just thought of it as a gender reference and not so much as a baby or infant or child reference. I've heard people use "boy" the same way. It's just not occured to me to think of it as being used to mean a child.

[deelaem]

No, not lying, and yes the POS deserves it, just like Zimmerman's ass needs to be fried for killing that young boy. I'm sorry you and just about everybody else here disagrees with that.

No you're not. You're getting off on it, as a matter of fact.

People are suggesting that Zimmerman get the full punishment the law allows for what he did. That's a far cry from wanting someone to be raped in prison.

[Guest Anonymous]

So, I take it you advocate killing then, right?

[deelaem]

So, I take it you advocate killing then, right?

No, I'm against the death penalty. Don't jump to assumptions. I'm just saying that it is an allowable punishment under the law. Prison rape is not.

[formergothardite]

So, I take it you advocate killing then, right?

I'm not, but the law now allows it. Do you think the law should allow rape? And I really am curious what things you were apologizing for saying to me.

[valsa]

I think I missed that thread. I just never thought about as demeaning because I've never heard intended that way, but I could see it being that way. I always just thought of it as a gender reference and not so much as a baby or infant or child reference. I've heard people use "boy" the same way. It's just not occured to me to think of it as being used to mean a child.

It started in the Grandduggar #3 thread, about half-way through.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7772&hilit=grandduggar+%233&start=200

Somewhere around this page.

It may be regional but I almost never hear men called "boys". Women have a long, long history of being treated as children (not being able to own property, vote, make decisions about their own body or lives, etc) That's why calling them things like "girl" and "baby" is so insidious. It only re-enforces misogynistic views that we're only now stepping away from as a society (I'm ignoring the current fucked up trend swinging back towards taking all power and self-determination away from women)

[Conuly]

I wouldn't say stupid. Most people have the potential to be psychologically manipulated by people in a position of power.

Fair enough. And we can only hope that most of those people genuinely thought they had pinned the actual guilty party.

Incidentally, just because there are people in there falsely for rape does NOT mean the rapes they were convicted of didn't happen. In a very few cases that might be true, but more likely the person was raped and, after the fact, picked the wrong guy out of the line up. Human memory is very fallible, unfortunately. (And that's assuming it was not a rape + murder, in which case the victim presumably wasn't able to help out at all in the conviction.)