"Work it out with your rapist..."

[SayNoToMullets]

This woman has been raped, so hey, let's add fuel to the fire by victim-blaming and forcing her to face him again! The way rape victims are treated is disturbing, really. A few years ago, I was mugged, assaulted, and robbed by the same man who raped another young woman in the same neighborhood (where I no longer live) earlier that night. The offenses were tried together, since they occurred on the same night in close proximity, and he was convicted on three counts of sexual assault and one count of robbery. Well, the case recently came up for appeal and one of the defense's contentions was that the state's motion invoking the Rape Shield Statute (barring questioning about the victim's prior sexual activity) should not have been granted. That part REALLY pissed me off. That girl's prior sexual activity has not a damn thing to do with the fact that this man raped her not once, not twice, but three times. She wasn't "asking for it," she did not give anything resembling consent, and the forensic evidence was not impacted by prior sexual activity. Luckily, the circuit court judgment was affirmed, but I got really mad about that part - if the defense had had their way, she would have been subject to questioning and judgment about her sexual history, as if this whole mess isn't traumatic enough.

[dairyfreelife]

I might be willing to hear GB if she had stated it as the guy should see how it feels to me raped. I disagree with that, but can understand the feeling of wanting the jerk to get it back. I don't agree that rape is okay though. Prison rape is a problem and suggesting he get that isn't okay to me.

School systems can really suck at punishment. They can be super biased about who they help and don't. I recall a teacher telling us that in her school classroom (fifth grade) she had two students. A girl who was 10/11 and a boy who was 12/13 as he'd been held back and that they were a couple already, boyfriend/girlfriend and way too involved with each other at that age, which is a problem in and of itself. The boy hit the girl with a glass bottle upside her head. She was okay, but it turned into a battle and the principal pulled the boy out of juvie and let him back into the classrom without any punishment. Told the young girl just how relationship abuse is treated by schools before she even hit secondary.

The teacher who told her to work it out with the young man who raped her and anyone mocking her rape should be ashamed of themselves. If I heard some boy brag about raping a girl when I was in high school, I wouldn't mock the girl, but pissed to the max at the dude and want to punch the asshole in the face. That's just horrible and sick. I think if it were my child, I would have yanked her out of the school and found somewhere else for her to attend. That's unacceptable punishment and charging her with sexual misconduct when she was raped is so many kinds of wrong, I can't even... :angry-steamingears:

edit-forgot a word.

[Third]

Once we decide rape, torture etc are acceptable forms of punishment how do we distinguish ourselves from the bad buys? Oh well we only think bad guys deserve this - how many men in prison for a sexually based offense are innocent? How often do rapists and their supporters blame the victim - he's less guilty because.

Considering so many people admitted to being the victims of sexual assault I find it pretty inconsiderate to write something really disgusting and triggering. Even if your intentions were to describe how angry you are. Missed the mark.

[Artemis]

A woman was raped and humiliated in more ways than one, so I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK IF BUBBA SHOVES A BROOMSTICK UP THE LITTLE BASTARD's ASS. I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK WHAT STEREOTYPES I STATED. It's so comforting, I mean disgusting to know that rapists now have a soft spot in somebody's heart.

OK, I think we get it, there's no need to swear.

FYI, not wanting a rapist to be raped in prison does not equal having a soft spot for rapists. Personally, I might favour castration, blinding and de-handing for rape, but you know what? Unless I'm prepared to do that myself and bear the many, many consequences and ramifications of that act, which would be one of insane violence, it's not OK even to think like that. No matter how angry I am that yet another woman has been violated by a man. No matter how much I feel a red rage at the abuse of power, at the male hierarchy oppressing women, at the complicity of the establishment in injustice and cruelty. Insane violence is not the answer.

So, here's your broomhandle, Geniebelle. You know what you want to happen to that rapist. Go, find that nasty man and do what you've suggested . . . Enjoy it. You want it to happen to him, I can see that.

Oh - don't you want to?

Why not?

Afraid of soiling your Christian hands?

Remembering that Jesus said that even to look at someone with anger in your heart was to commit murder?

(And you do follow Jesus, don't you?)

But you think it's OK to hope that a homosexual man incarcerated in gaol will commit your nice little revenge rape for you because hey, he's gay, so he probably hasn't got a soul anyway, and even if he is ensouled, he's in prison, so unlike you, snug in your Christian rectitude, he's probably damned anyway, and a few more stains on that already tarnished spirit won't matter. He's hell bound, so what the hell?

Rape is vile. It doesn't matter who does it to whom it is still vile. Advocating rape as a punishment - how does that make you any different from the rapist? Oh yes, it distances you, because it isn't actually you that's doing the raping. But if you support it being carried out, then you are complicit.

I'm curious - what denomination of Christianity do you practice?

'Cos it sure as shooting isn't one I've heard of.

[deelaem]

A woman was raped and humiliated in more ways than one, so I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK IF BUBBA SHOVES A BROOMSTICK UP THE LITTLE BASTARD's ASS. I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK WHAT STEREOTYPES I STATED. It's so comforting, I mean disgusting to know that rapists now have a soft spot in somebody's heart.

Wow, now I know what a forum board tantrum looks like.

Listen genie, I can understand how you feel. Rapists make me angrier than just about anyone else. But you're advocating frontier justice, all that "eye for an eye" stuff. That never works. And you know very well no one here has a soft spot for rapists. I agree with another poster that you need to think before you post. Also, judging from your posts, you seem to be very emotionally labile and have attention-seeking behaviors. Have you considered getting a psychological evaluation? It might give you some insight and help you manage your behavior better.

As for the original topic, this sort of thing is no surprise to me. It goes back to the fact that different parts of society have different definitions for rape. There really are people (men) who think that there are degrees of rape. Given that thinking, they figure she was only "kind of" raped and therefore should work it out with her rapist. Rape means sex without full consent - period.

[Witsec1]

The foe button is magic, people.

The OP is horrifying enough w/o GB's knuckle-dragging nonsense. Eloquent response from Boltingmadonna, but I'm done wrassling with this particular pig.

[shesinsane]

I'll wager that the rapist told the school it was consensual at the time and afterward the victim started crying rape. Then the whole case can be dismissed as he said/she said and they don't have to feel guilty for how they treated the victim.

Too many people still see rape as something a stranger does, and if the woman isn't covered in bruises and scratches she didn't fight back enough and it wasn't really rape. The victim knew her attacker (they went to school together), she says its rape he says it wasn't, why should his life be ruined because of her accusation, etc.

I'm just trying to understand the whole way things were handled. If the people the victim talked to didn't believe her story, everything that happened to her afterward makes sense.

This reminds me of my alma mater being dumb in the mid 90s. Hotshot basketball player got offered a full scholarship to my university, then it came out that he had sexually assaulted a girl in a stairwell of their high school. What was my school's response? They offered his victim a full scholarship too. :shock: Public outcry was loud enough that the rapist lost his admission/scholarship, and the news never followed up if the victim decided to use her scholarship offer.

[debrand]

Emotionally, I understand genie's statement. When I watched The Girl With A Dragon Tattoo, I had a short moment that I agreed with her actions. However, the rational side of my brain understands that I am wrong for feeling pleasure in revenge.

Society often laughs at male rape. Rape is horrible no matter who is the victim.

Note: the book did a good job of pointing out that Lisbeth was a broken person who distrusted authority so she didn't runderstand that she could get help or fair treatment.

[valsa]

Wow, now I know what a forum board tantrum looks like.

Geniebelle is full of them. Her M.O. is to make an ignorant statement, get called on it, flip out (complete with cursing), then come back with apologies, excuses, and/or reasoning why what she said wasn't what she meant/so bad.

[holierthanyou]

As a rape survivor, I harbor plenty of unkind and angry feelings towards rapists.

That said, if someone gave me the magical ability to decide the fate of all rapists, my honest first choice would be that they change into someone who doesn't rape. Rehabilitation should always be the goal. I do think there are odd exceptions where a person might not seem capable of change, but I believe that most people are capable of change, if provided with the tools, and help with deconstructing their current/previous thought patterns and building new positive approaches/tools to dealing with life.

Rape and sexual assault are not part of anyone's prison sentence. Not only is it inhumane and reinforcing the idea that rape is an appropriate tool for punishment and domination, but it also will not have the effect the people clamoring for it want it to have. To suggest that a rapist needs to be raped to develop empathy for his victims is just as ludicrous as suggesting that children need to be abused in order to grow up and not abuse their own children.

If history has taught us anything, surely it is that violence only begets more violence.

[valsa]

I'd also like to point out that it's impossible to pick who gets raped in prison. It skews towards the large and aggressive raping the smaller and weaker. That large and aggressive guy could very well be in prison for rape, while the smaller and weaker man could be in there for some non-violent drug or theft related crime.

[jayes1217]

I probably am mistaken but I have read from non-partisan and generally pro-homosexual sources, that just because a man incarcerated has sex/rapes another inmate doesn't mean that they are gay. They are just using sex as a weapon to exert their power which of course is wrong and should be prosecuted. So I don't think Geniebelle was trying to imply that gay people rape just that some men in prison use rape as a weapon (just like they use rape as a weapon in the world)

I too am from Alabama like Geniebelle and my first thought when I hear the word "Bubba" is a big white guy with a farmer's tan and very racist himself. I never knew that Bubba when used by a caucasian (I don't know if GB is white or not but I am) was considered racist? Of course, it is a stereotype but don't we use stereotypes sometimes to shorthand an expression?

As for wanting a rapist to get raped, I can understand that emotionally and I can see having that knee-jerk reaction. But you all made some very logical points that saying that rape against the raper is still saying that rape is okay. And that is despicable.

And I can't believe that school did that! Was it a college or high school?

[cindyluvs24]

(blows ref's whistle) Everyone relax. GB is as entitled to post her opinion as the rest of you are to yours. To claim otherwise would be to negate the purpose of FJ, wouldn't it? (blows whistle again) Game on!

[debrand]

(blows ref's whistle) Everyone relax. GB is as entitled to post her opinion as the rest of you are to yours. To claim otherwise would be to negate the purpose of FJ, wouldn't it? (blows whistle again) Game on!

No one is censoring her. She hasn't been thrown off the boards. Free speech does not mean that you won't get a reaction for what you say.

[valsa]

(blows ref's whistle) Everyone relax. GB is as entitled to post her opinion as the rest of you are to yours. To claim otherwise would be to negate the purpose of FJ, wouldn't it? (blows whistle again) Game on!

Wow, first time I've seen a hand-slapper who pretends, even jokingly, to be in a position of authority. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. No one is entitled to not hear other people's opinions on their opinion.

[cindyluvs24]

I am just surprised at the intensity of some of the responses. At times it mimicked blogs that we snark on. I was waiting for someone to tell her she was going to burn in hell. Relax babies. Opinions are like belly buttons - you've all got one.

[formergothardite]

I am just surprised at the intensity of some of the responses. At times it mimicked blogs that we snark on. I was waiting for someone to tell her she was going to burn in hell. Relax babies. Opinions are like belly buttons - you've all got one.

Intensity against someone stating that rape is okay and that it can be used to punish someone? Really, you are surprised that people are strongly against that? And you want people to relax and not speak out against rape? We all have opinions, but some people have ones that are harmful.

[valsa]

I am just surprised at the intensity of some of the responses. At times it mimicked blogs that we snark on. I was waiting for someone to tell her she was going to burn in hell. Relax babies. Opinions are like belly buttons - you've all got one.

Yeah, I'm weirdly busy today so I'll let someone else answer this stupidity more in-depth. But here's the brief response, sentence by sentence-

1) Geniebelle is a sexist, racist dumbass who borders on being a troll. Responses are intense here because she's pulled this shit before AND because condoning rape in any situation opens the door to condoning rape in any other situation, and that's horrific.

2) Intolerance of intolerance is not intolerance.

3) I don't believe in hell.

4) I'm not a baby or a child, don't talk to me like I'm one.

5) See number 4.

[Conuly]

(blows ref's whistle) Everyone relax. GB is as entitled to post her opinion as the rest of you are to yours. To claim otherwise would be to negate the purpose of FJ, wouldn't it? (blows whistle again) Game on!

What does this mean, exactly? Are you saying that she's allowed to state her opinion, but nobody else is ever allowed to state their own opinions if those opinions contradict hers?

On the subject of prison rape, quite aside from the morality argument, there are numerous practical difficulties.

First, there's the issue of false convictions. These are a very real thing. In recent years, with new DNA evidence, convictions are overturned every year because the evidence proves that the convicted person could not POSSIBLY have been there and committed the crime in question. Sometimes they even have confessions, but the evidence shows it HAD to be somebody else!

The moral lesson here is really "Don't talk to the cops, and for crying out loud never confess to a crime you didn't commit!", but people shouldn't be raped because they happened to be stupid. (I mean, assuming we could find a situation where people SHOULD be raped, that wouldn't be it.)

Secondly, either you're suggesting that prison guards should spend their time gratuitously raping prisoners OR you're suggesting that prison discipline should be so lax that the prisoners all have lots of time to rape each other.

Quite aside from the fact that this makes rehabilitation that much harder (and rehabilitation is a lot cheaper in the long run than the alternative!), the former would keep guards from doing their actual jobs (guarding the prison!) and the latter puts punishment in the hands of people least equipped to deliver it. Instead of all rapists being raped by the comparatively "good" murderers and corrupt bankers, what you'd get is the strong preying on the weak. And when you think about it, if you have one guy in there for embezzling to fuel his coke habit, and another guy in there for being a rapist serial killer, who do you think is raping whom? Sure, punish rapists by turning a blind eye to all the rape! They're not going to take advantage of this at all!

And for what? Does this decrease rape? Does this prevent recidivism? There's no evidence to suggest that it does. So what's the point? Sheer vengeance? That doesn't seem like a good way to run a country.

[cindyluvs24]

@ Valsa: 1. I don't know Geniebelle other than her posts on this particular thread so I can't say with any certainty if she is a "sexist, racist dumbass."

2. Intolerance of other's opinions is not something I would have expected on FJ.

3. I don't either. The hell reference was to point out that some of you sound like the fundy gals you like to snark on.

4. Babies, hon, dear... These terms get used gal-to-gal in my sub-class. Sorry if you were offended. They are not meant to demean or belittle.

I'm not advocating the wholesale use of prison rape, but if someone raped one near and dear to me, I wouldn't care what happened to him or her in prison. My anger is directed at the school authorities and their actions.

[valsa]

@ Valsa: 1. I don't know Geniebelle other than her posts on this particular thread so I can't say with any certainty if she is a "sexist, racist dumbass."

2. Intolerance of other's opinions is not something I would have expected on FJ.

3. I don't either. The hell reference was to point out that some of you sound like the fundy gals you like to snark on.

4. Babies, hon, dear... These terms get used gal-to-gal in my sub-class. Sorry if you were offended. They are not meant to demean or belittle.

I'm not advocating the wholesale use of prison rape, but if someone raped one near and dear to me, I wouldn't care what happened to him or her in prison. My anger is directed at the school authorities and their actions.

1) You should learn more about a poster's history here before jumping to their defense.

2) Really? A board dedicated to snarking on the dangerous beliefs and practices of fundies isn't somewhere you expect to see intolerance towards dangerous beliefs?

4) Whether you meant them to demean or belittle, they are inherently demeaning, belittling, and infantilizing towards women. Not to long along we had a huge thread about not calling women "girls" and I find "babies", "hon" and "dear" far worse than "girls".

[formergothardite]

Where exactly do people get the idea this board if full of tolerance? There are a lot of things not tolerated here. Like sexism, racism, demeaning women, and on this thread, acting like rape is okay if the person "deserves" it. That sort of attitude is how women end up getting raped by guys who think they deserve it because of some way the woman treated the man.

[Conuly]

4. Babies, hon, dear... These terms get used gal-to-gal in my sub-class. Sorry if you were offended. They are not meant to demean or belittle.

Oh come ON. You use those terms specifically when arguing with people, and then pull a "sorry if you're so sensitive" out of your ass and you expect to sound sincere?

[Guest Anonymous]

Oh so now we have to sensitive to your feelings when it comes to terms of endearment, but yet you can engage in name calling. Can we say hypocrite? Well, honey bunches if you don't like it you can always make use of the "Foe" feature. At this point I really don't give a damn who I offend.

[emmiedahl]

Geniebelle's past on FJ is definitely an important factor to consider and it will predispose people to come down harshly on her, always assuming she means the worst because frankly she usually does.

If a long-term poster who is viewed as generally tolerant says something offensive, the reaction would be more like, "Deelaem, are you really advocating for rape as a punishment? I mean, really, did I misread? wtf are are you trying to say here???" Not to pick on deelaem, just randomly picking an fj-er who is known to be not prone to racist, sexist, classist outbursts. But it is hard not to see geniebelle's statements through the lens of previous statements.