Kids' Lady Gaga anti-bullying video offends parents' group

[Boogalou]

Saw this shared on facebook today and I thought I would share it here too. A bunch of schools in Vancouver and the surrounding area, as well as one in New York, created a dance video to Lady Gaga's "Born This Way" to combat bullying, especially anti-gay bullying, and promote acceptance. It was made for Pink Shirt Day and all the kids wear pink shirts saying "acceptance" in the video. Sounds nice, right?

 

Not for everyone. The Parents' Voice, a parents group out of Burnaby, who the article says was created "to oppose the anti-homophobia policy of Burnaby's school district" shockingly claims the video is insensitive to and exclusive of overweight, anorexic, and atheist students as well as those who can't dance. And they want to BC government to take the video down.

 

The article states:

 

Quote

The whole purpose of the project is to bring students together and send the message that bullying won't be accepted.

Seems like a pretty good message to send to me! It's pretty surprising I think that this is being protested in Canada by a Canadian group. The video is sweet with just a bunch of kids dancing around to promote acceptance.

 

Here are the links to the article the video of the kids and Lady Gaga's response (the last one starts playing a video automatically).

[Kitty]

Hang on. These are people who refuse to accept gays, but whine that Lady Gaga's songs are offensive to atheists. What the fuck? More idiots who have never spoken to atheists. I love Lady Gaga.

Exclusive of overweight students? That statement wouldn't bother me as much as the "anorexic students" one. Like, what the fuck?!?! All underweight people are anorexic? Fuck you. I've been underweight and am still pretty damn thin for my height, I can't believe some people are so fucking ignorant as to believe underweight=potentially lethal eating disorder. I have a crazy fast metabolism, and even with birth control (one known to cause A LOT of weight gain) I can't get over 105 lbs. I did drop quite a bit of weight due to illness in high school, but hey, I was able to gain it back (slowly). It's because of the "underweight=anorexic=unhealthy/unattractive" assumptions that made me insecure over being too skinny.

Those who can't dance? What the fuck? Dancing is a TALENT. You actively work to make your dance skills better. You don't try to make yourself overweight, you don't develop your anorexia skillz, and it's not like you go to expensive-ass atheism schools. Boggles. My. Mind.

[Spider Burps]

Uhm, I don't think they were talking about skinny kids by talking about anorexics. The kids in the video are thin, so they must be talking about people with actual Anorexia Nervosa. Just because people called you anorexic for being skinny, Kitty, does not equate to the word anorexic always referring to skinny individuals. The people the article mentioned were just trying to find something to bitch about, so they noticed what the video was missing: skinny, about-to-die people, and morbidly obese, about-to-die people.

[Boogalou]

Yeah, I am pretty sure most groups that oppose anti-homophobia measures are not the same groups advocating on behalf of atheists. It does seem like they just want to nitpick whatever comes to mind because their real problem with the video is so hateful. There were quite a variety of kids in that video from thinner to bigger and umm... quite a variety of dance talents and I am sure a great variety of beliefs were represented too.

It's interesting to read the comments on the article, but in a good way this time. Every comment I read (I didn't read them all) were in support of the kids. I think it would be very different if this were published in an American paper.

[Rachel333]

If they actually watched the video they wouldn't say it was being insensitive to those who can't dance. :P

I'm really confused by the claims about being insensitive to overweight and anorexic kids. Atheist, okay, but where did weight come in at all?

I do think they were talking about people with actual anorexia, as opposed to very thin people.

It's because of the "underweight=anorexic=unhealthy/unattractive" assumptions that made me insecure over being too skinny.

Yes, and it's equally wrong that an overweight kid should be insecure. In your example, it would just be "overweight=unhealthy/unattractive" because the prejudice is so strong. I think you also probably wouldn't see someone put "being too fat" in italics, because unlike being too skinny, it's considered normal to be insecure over being overweight.

[alaeangelorum]

If they actually watched the video they wouldn't say it was being insensitive to those who can't dance. :P

I'm really confused by the claims about being insensitive to overweight and anorexic kids. Atheist, okay, but where did weight come in at all?

They look like schoolkids of all shapes and sizes to me... if it had been a professionally produced video with child actors/dancers in it then maybe they'd have a point but as it is it just seems ridiculous.

Yes, and it's equally wrong that an overweight kid should be insecure. In your example, it would just be "overweight=unhealthy/unattractive" because the prejudice is so strong. I think you also probably wouldn't see someone put "being too fat" in italics, because unlike being too skinny, it's considered normal to be insecure over being overweight.

Yes I guess that is considered normal... however that also has the side effect that most people in polite conversation won't say 'you're so fat! You should eat less' but they will quite happily tell skinny people to eat more, implying that there's something wrong with them when there might not be. It works both ways.

[Terrie]

Yes I guess that is considered normal... however that also has the side effect that most people in polite conversation won't say 'you're so fat! You should eat less' but they will quite happily tell skinny people to eat more, implying that there's something wrong with them when there might not be. It works both ways.

I was once stocking shelves with candies and an older woman came up to me and put her hand around my upper arm, then told me "Oh, you're much to skinny. You should be eating those candies, not shelving them." :shock: I'm used to the comments, but every time someone puts their hands on me to emphasize my small size (and, yes, it's happened more than once), it kinda freaks me out. In this case, I finished with the candies, walked to the break room and flipped out at my coworkers for about 5 minutes before going back to work.

[Rachel333]

Yes I guess that is considered normal... however that also has the side effect that most people in polite conversation won't say 'you're so fat! You should eat less' but they will quite happily tell skinny people to eat more, implying that there's something wrong with them when there might not be. It works both ways.

People might not tell someone to their face that they're too fat, but that's about it. I hear so much anti-fat prejudice in conversation, but rarely hear anti-skinny stuff. The two aren't really very comparable; the reason people feel free to tell someone they're too skinny is because being too skinny that really is not considered a bad thing in our society, unlike being too fat. You do get the "ew, being too thin is disgusting" comments, but those just don't have the same weight as the opposite. Those comments still are definitely not okay, though. I don't think it's okay to ever comment on anyone's body. (You need to be careful even with positive comments; I've heard a lot of stories of people losing weight really quickly and unhealthily due to depression or illness or the like and all the sudden getting lots of comments about how great they look.)

[aubrietta]

This is local to me, and they have been in the news here quite a bit over the past year. I couldn't find the exact article because I can't remember which paper it was in, but if I recall correctly there was a long article about this group and several interviews in which they all tried to defend themselves and state that they were not homophobic, and that it was cultural (they are all from China) not religious (but they are all Christian) and that sexual orientation is "private" and "not talked about" in their culture and that was why they didn't want the anti-homophobic curriculum instated in the school system. There was then a huge backlash of comments regarding their culture, and they tried to file a complaint with the Human Rights Commission, but the commission refused to hear their complaint.

They then attempted to get voted into the school board, but dismally failed - not a single person on their slate was elected.

They are assholes of the first order.

[Kitty]

They look like schoolkids of all shapes and sizes to me... if it had been a professionally produced video with child actors/dancers in it then maybe they'd have a point but as it is it just seems ridiculous.

Yes I guess that is considered normal... however that also has the side effect that most people in polite conversation won't say 'you're so fat! You should eat less' but they will quite happily tell skinny people to eat more, implying that there's something wrong with them when there might not be. It works both ways.

^What I was going to say, but the forum ate TWO POSTS so I got beaten to it. I didn't hear a lot of anti-overweight sentiment growing up, but I did get told often that I looked sick, that nobody should wear a size zero because it's not healthy for anyone, that I really should see a doctor, or eat more. It's considered normal and even socially acceptable to worry about being too fat, but nobody understands worrying about being too thin at all. It's kind of understandable, and at the same time not with how many people realize that what we see in the media about weight is just not realistic at all, so that's where the "skinny=anorexic" idea comes from. Calling someone fat is now socially unacceptable, but calling a skinny person anorexic is just peachy and if they complain they'll just get "but society says you're perfect!" which is absolutely maddening when no, there are plenty of people saying otherwise.

I just had an issue with the folks saying "but anorexics aren't included!" when while a lot of the kids are thin, they don't fit the stereotype of anorexics either. Anorexia nervosa isn't always visible; not all sufferers look skeletal. But some of the kids aren't thin, so it's silly to say that overweight kids are excluded too.

[Spider Burps]

^What I was going to say, but the forum ate TWO POSTS so I got beaten to it. I didn't hear a lot of anti-overweight sentiment growing up, but I did get told often that I looked sick, that nobody should wear a size zero because it's not healthy for anyone, that I really should see a doctor, or eat more. It's considered normal and even socially acceptable to worry about being too fat, but nobody understands worrying about being too thin at all. It's kind of understandable, and at the same time not with how many people realize that what we see in the media about weight is just not realistic at all, so that's where the "skinny=anorexic" idea comes from. Calling someone fat is now socially unacceptable, but calling a skinny person anorexic is just peachy and if they complain they'll just get "but society says you're perfect!" which is absolutely maddening when no, there are plenty of people saying otherwise.

I just had an issue with the folks saying "but anorexics aren't included!" when while a lot of the kids are thin, they don't fit the stereotype of anorexics either. Anorexia nervosa isn't always visible; not all sufferers look skeletal. But some of the kids aren't thin, so it's silly to say that overweight kids are excluded too.

Just wanted to add a note from your friendly neighborhood recovering Anorexic (I had the purging subtype from when I was 11 to when I was 20): by definition, Anorexia Nervosa is usually visible to the naked eye. The DSM-IV-TR defines Anorexia Nervosa as "Refusal to maintain body weight at or above a minimally normal weight for age and height: Weight loss leading to maintenance of body weight <85% of that expected or failure to make expected weight gain during period of growth, leading to body weight less than 85% of that expected." What you're thinking of is Eating Disorder Not Otherwise Specified, EDNOS, which can have all of the mental symptoms of AN, except the patient doesn't meet the physical DSM criteria (such as the weight or three months of amenorrhea). The criteria have been debated for a while because some women keep menstruating, despite having BMIs of 15, which means they aren't diagnosed as having AN, which means they often aren't given priority for treatment. So, yeah, there were unlikely any kids in that video who actually have AN, though that doesn't mean that they're all eating normally.

And I don't know what magical fat-loving planet you lived on, but everywhere I have EVER lived the fat kids got made fun of way more than skinny kids did. Calling people skinny can still be bullying, just like calling people fat. If you're saying it in an insulting manner and it is meant to hurt the person to which you're speaking, then it's bullying. Even saying "Nice hat" can be bullying if said in the right way, yanno? I feel compelled to lose weight when people call me thin (some sort of weird residual eating disorder thing), so it's obviously an upsetting thing for me to hear comments on my weight. One of the helpful things I learned in therapy is that sometimes people are just in awe (for lack of better word) of skinniness and don't realize how insensitive it is to say something, even if they're the type that would never comment on an overweight person. If someone comments on you being too skinny, just ask if they want to buy you a milkshake/Big Mac/pizza to attempt to remedy your "weight situation". :P Never fails to produce laughs, plus you sometimes get a free milkshake out of it!

[Three and Done]

I also have struggled with anorexia in my past. My version of it involved NOT eating. I am 5'6", and weighed 98lbs. (sometimes a little less). I DID hear comments about how thin I was, but not as many as you would think, considering you could see most of my bones.

There is definitely an "anti-fat" attitude in this country, and it is seen as far more acceptable to bash on overweight people, although being anorexic or bulimic can very well kill you too.

[Spider Burps]

I also have struggled with anorexia in my past. My version of it involved NOT eating. I am 5'6", and weighed 98lbs. (sometimes a little less). I DID hear comments about how thin I was, but not as many as you would think, considering you could see most of my bones.

There is definitely an "anti-fat" attitude in this country, and it is seen as far more acceptable to bash on overweight people, although being anorexic or bulimic can very well kill you too.

I also never really heard many negative comments when I was about your weight and height. When I did hear comments, they were usually POSITIVE "Oh, you look like a model! I wish I had your level of discipline!" The negative ones came from people that actually knew me and were aware that I was doing things like throwing up shirataki noodles (they have 5 calories. Yeah. FIVE. And somehow that's too many to digest?! :doh:).

[Kitty]

I also have struggled with anorexia in my past. My version of it involved NOT eating. I am 5'6", and weighed 98lbs. (sometimes a little less). I DID hear comments about how thin I was, but not as many as you would think, considering you could see most of my bones.

There is definitely an "anti-fat" attitude in this country, and it is seen as far more acceptable to bash on overweight people, although being anorexic or bulimic can very well kill you too.

There is an anti-fat attitude, but there's also an anti-anorexic attitude (not against anorexia nervosa itself, but against people with it) that sometimes winds up in people accusing the very thin of being "anorexic." It led to my own freaking family accusing me of having it, to the point where I'd only eat if I could sneak into the kitchen without my parents finding out and interrogating me over what I was eating. My mother still asks me IF I'm eating (?!) and only after that what I'm eating, and often asks me what I weigh, even though I don't weigh myself regularly. Maybe it's just how shitty people in Hometown are, but when I worked at a fast food restaurant there a good number of the adult customers (I was 17) would point out my weight. It took me a year to get back the weight I lost when I was sick my junior year, and that year was the year everyone I knew would regularly express worry over my size and actually tell me to go to a doctor.

So I get that there's an anti-fat attitude, but there's also an anti-skinny attitude as sort of a backlash to that.

[Spider Burps]

There is an anti-fat attitude, but there's also an anti-anorexic attitude (not against anorexia nervosa itself, but against people with it) that sometimes winds up in people accusing the very thin of being "anorexic." It led to my own freaking family accusing me of having it, to the point where I'd only eat if I could sneak into the kitchen without my parents finding out and interrogating me over what I was eating. My mother still asks me IF I'm eating (?!) and only after that what I'm eating, and often asks me what I weigh, even though I don't weigh myself regularly. Maybe it's just how shitty people in Hometown are, but when I worked at a fast food restaurant there a good number of the adult customers (I was 17) would point out my weight. It took me a year to get back the weight I lost when I was sick my junior year, and that year was the year everyone I knew would regularly express worry over my size and actually tell me to go to a doctor.

So I get that there's an anti-fat attitude, but there's also an anti-skinny attitude as sort of a backlash to that.

Methinks I must be on someone's foe list, because Kitty keeps fucking ignoring things I'm saying that are actually helpful.

[Three and Done]

I also never really heard many negative comments when I was about your weight and height. When I did hear comments, they were usually POSITIVE "Oh, you look like a model! I wish I had your level of discipline!" The negative ones came from people that actually knew me and were aware that I was doing things like throwing up shirataki noodles (they have 5 calories. Yeah. FIVE. And somehow that's too many to digest?! :doh:).

I did hear more positive than negative comments (though most of them were from men, women tended to make snarky, jealous comments). Men LIKED my stick thin body :shock:

I did do a little bit of local modeling (too short for the "big time"), and had trouble wearing the clothes since a size 2 literally hung off of me. I used to get horrible stomach pains from trying to eat, which reinforced the behavior - who wants to eat when it hurts?

[Three and Done]

There is an anti-fat attitude, but there's also an anti-anorexic attitude (not against anorexia nervosa itself, but against people with it) that sometimes winds up in people accusing the very thin of being "anorexic." It led to my own freaking family accusing me of having it, to the point where I'd only eat if I could sneak into the kitchen without my parents finding out and interrogating me over what I was eating. My mother still asks me IF I'm eating (?!) and only after that what I'm eating, and often asks me what I weigh, even though I don't weigh myself regularly. Maybe it's just how shitty people in Hometown are, but when I worked at a fast food restaurant there a good number of the adult customers (I was 17) would point out my weight. It took me a year to get back the weight I lost when I was sick my junior year, and that year was the year everyone I knew would regularly express worry over my size and actually tell me to go to a doctor.

So I get that there's an anti-fat attitude, but there's also an anti-skinny attitude as sort of a backlash to that.

Sorry for the double post, I don't know how to reply to both you and Spider Burps in the same message.

My experience was different - I did NOT see much of an "anti-skinny" attitude, more of an "I wish I looked like you". The only one who ever expressed any concern about my weight was my mother, and I just ignored her.

To this day, I do not own a scale. Works for me.

[Kitty]

Methinks I must be on someone's foe list, because Kitty keeps fucking ignoring things I'm saying that are actually helpful.

I'm sorry if you feel ignored, because that's not my intention at all.

I've been trying to say all along that the parents bitching about the video likely have the same limited understanding of anorexia nervosa as anyone else, and I admit that even I was unaware of the DSM definition. Most people don't know the difference at all. What I am saying is that "skinny=anorexic" in a lot of people's eyes- not just "healthy skinny," but "very skinny." My BMI has never hit 18, that's all some people need to know to assume I'm underweight and can't possibly be healthy. Even if I am talking about the EDNOS that resembles AN, that's what a lot of people assume it is. I've learned, most people haven't and never will.

And my "magical fat-loving planet?" Really? Did you not read the exact post you quoted, where I did say some things that were a response to your post? I never said anything about "fat-loving," I've said this whole time there's a sort of backlash against anorexia/thinness that totally isn't just in my head. I've seen people who actually did have AN get torn to shreds by people saying they were "hoes" and "nobody wants to see your bones" and "I wish I could shove hamburgers down all the anorexic hoes' throats." Which is counterproductive. I've seen someone who is thinner than me get attacked on Facebook for being too thin, so it's definitely not just me on some magical fat-loving planet, this is happening to other people. But hey, we're all deluded because we're totally perfect, right? :roll:

[Spider Burps]

I'm sorry if you feel ignored, because that's not my intention at all.

I've been trying to say all along that the parents bitching about the video likely have the same limited understanding of anorexia nervosa as anyone else, and I admit that even I was unaware of the DSM definition. Most people don't know the difference at all. What I am saying is that "skinny=anorexic" in a lot of people's eyes- not just "healthy skinny," but "very skinny." My BMI has never hit 18, that's all some people need to know to assume I'm underweight and can't possibly be healthy. Even if I am talking about the EDNOS that resembles AN, that's what a lot of people assume it is. I've learned, most people haven't and never will.

And my "magical fat-loving planet?" Really? Did you not read the exact post you quoted, where I did say some things that were a response to your post? I never said anything about "fat-loving," I've said this whole time there's a sort of backlash against anorexia/thinness that totally isn't just in my head. I've seen people who actually did have AN get torn to shreds by people saying they were "hoes" and "nobody wants to see your bones" and "I wish I could shove hamburgers down all the anorexic hoes' throats." Which is counterproductive. I've seen someone who is thinner than me get attacked on Facebook for being too thin, so it's definitely not just me on some magical fat-loving planet, this is happening to other people. But hey, we're all deluded because we're totally perfect, right? :roll:

No need to apologize, it just seemed like your responses were all to other people because you had quotes and whatnot. My bad.

I have, indeed, read all of your posts and you said that where you lived you heard more people harp on skinny people than fat people. You have heard things that are very unusual to the two of us on this thread who have had very low BMIs. We both heard men saying that we looked good and that we looked like models, you've heard men saying that they want to shove hamburgers down anorexic hoes' throats. I've never heard anything like that in my life, but I have heard people say "Try a salad instead!" or "Mooooooo!" to random obese people eating. I've never encountered that type of skinnybashing, so that's why I was baffled as to where you lived (hence the sarcasm). As for the Facebook stuff, I've never seen anyone on Facebook have their weight mentioned except in positive ways, like "Oh, you look like you've lost weight! You look good!" My Facebook friends are all in their 40s-50s-60s, though, so perhaps I just don't have the experience of a typical 20-something on The Facewebs!

[Kitty]

If it makes you feel better, Spider Burps, I tend to respond to posts out-of-order because it's easier to think of responses to some posts than others.

And so you don't feel old, I do know people in their 40s/50s/60s who still have the problem I do, and those that don't have been considerably nicer saying things like "you look great! you should be a model!" when I've been at about my current weight, or at least sounding sincere in their concern for my health. It's been people closer to my age/in their 30s who are all "OMG HIP BONES KILL IT WITH FIRE!" Could be lack of tact, it could be that they're more aware of the (admittedly fairly small) backlash against the media's idea of thinness.

(I'm exaggerating with the 'kill it with fire,' but still, the reaction is very knee-jerk).

It could be that despite living in the same country (you're in the US too, right? Just making sure) we're just in different cultures who have different ideas of what a healthy weight is. I can't speak for anyone in Canada, though.

[Elle]

In our adult society, it's not acceptable to make open fun of being overweight, but it's fair game to rag on people who are thin, with the justification being "because thin is more desirable." Like being the "more desirable" gives you a leg to stand on, so it's all right to know you down that leg.

As kids, fat kids get teased for being fat, and at least where I grew up, the skinny kids were teased for being poor, even if they weren't. "Haha, your family can't afford to eat!" Weight wasn't mention specifically usually, but the implication was you can't afford to eat which is why you're skinny.

I'm a size 4 and hear it all the damn time I'm too thin, but I'm not! I'm just smaller than average.

[ladypuglover]

In our adult society, it's not acceptable to make open fun of being overweight, but it's fair game to rag on people who are thin, with the justification being "because thin is more desirable." Like being the "more desirable" gives you a leg to stand on, so it's all right to know you down that leg.

As kids, fat kids get teased for being fat, and at least where I grew up, the skinny kids were teased for being poor, even if they weren't. "Haha, your family can't afford to eat!" Weight wasn't mention specifically usually, but the implication was you can't afford to eat which is why you're skinny.

I'm a size 4 and hear it all the damn time I'm too thin, but I'm not! I'm just smaller than average.

It's not? Well then tell that to the rest of America because I hear other adults bash other adults for being overweight. I can not tell you how often I hear grown ass men and women bash people for only 10 pounds overweight let alone my 100 pounds overweight. I may be hard of hearing but sadly I do hear it.