What We Can Learn From the Dutch About Teen Sex

[pixydust]

I think for a lot of teens these days having sex has less to do with caring for somebody and more to do with caving to peer pressure. Do you want your daughters to have sex for that reason? Also do you think 14, 15, or 16 year old boys give two shits about the emotional intimacy that girls need in a sexual relationship to make them feel safe and wanted? In my opinion casual sex benefits the boys way more than it benefits the girls.

I really didn't say anything about casual sex. I'd like my kids to be in a relationship when they begin having sex, not a one nighter. I guess I didn't make myself clear. I also never said anything about 14 year olds having sex, once again, I didn't make myself clear.

You are making some generalizations about teens that aren't always true. I didn't have sex because of peer pressure, I was in fundieland then, I didn't know anyone who admited to having sex. I made a decision that I was ready, so I did it. No, I don't want any of my kids to have sex because of peer pressure, I want them to do what is best for them and their partner. Also, there are boys who care about the girl, my older brother and husband both did. Oh, and not all girls need "emotional intimacy" to have a good/healthy sex life.....I certainly don't (seriously, the best thing that I ever did was have a fuck-buddy for 5 months after I left my ex-husband).

My hope is that my kids and I have an open relationship about sex. I want them to come to me for birth control, questions, advise, anything.

[emmiedahl]

I think for a lot of teens these days having sex has less to do with caring for somebody and more to do with caving to peer pressure. Do you want your daughters to have sex for that reason? Also do you think 14, 15, or 16 year old boys give two shits about the emotional intimacy that girls need in a sexual relationship to make them feel safe and wanted? In my opinion casual sex benefits the boys way more than it benefits the girls.

I think the reason girls need more emotional intimacy is that they are programmed to feel more guilt and shame regarding casual sex.

I don't want my daughter out whoring around, but I certainly don't want her hung up on a membrane as the sole measure of her worth. There is a middle ground, in which you teach your daughters to have sex with whom they want, when they want, and that anything else is a violation of their human rights. You teach them that when they choose to have sex, it should be as safe and enjoyable as possible.

[pixydust]

I think the reason girls need more emotional intimacy is that they are programmed to feel more guilt and shame regarding casual sex.

I don't want my daughter out whoring around, but I certainly don't want her hung up on a membrane as the sole measure of her worth. There is a middle ground, in which you teach your daughters to have sex with whom they want, when they want, and that anything else is a violation of their human rights. You teach them that when they choose to have sex, it should be as safe and enjoyable as possible.

This, exactly!

[Rosa]

I think for a lot of teens these days having sex has less to do with caring for somebody and more to do with caving to peer pressure. Do you want your daughters to have sex for that reason? Also do you think 14, 15, or 16 year old boys give two shits about the emotional intimacy that girls need in a sexual relationship to make them feel safe and wanted? In my opinion casual sex benefits the boys way more than it benefits the girls.

That's the point of talking to kids about desire, pleasure, and comfort. Encouraging them to talk about sex and pleasure instead of just pretending they're not doing anything while they do it.

[dawbs]

Parenthood is about taking risks, informed ones, and sometimes a sacrifice to the greater good. Our podunk school, covered parents liability when the kiddos were in the 7th grade. I didn't break any laws in my state with regards to sexual contact. I also communicated with the boys parents so that we were all on the same page.

True, bit it's not always that 'easy'.

I get hit with 'corrupting a minor' charges, even if they get dropped, and I'm suddenly not only likely to find myself unemployed, but I"m unemployable in my field.

That makes it that much harder for us to figure that crap out in 12-18 years or so when it starts coming up in our family.

[emmiedahl]

In the article I talked about above, the teacher made a point of telling the class that most women do not orgasm from PIV sex and that supplemental measures were needed. It sounded like the class was really open to it. I love the idea of teenage boys learning a few extra skills and making things nice for the girls in their lives.

Most girls that age are not aware of how to produce an orgasm in themselves, so of course they will have more difficulty with a partner. Especially with all the shaming and embarassment that come with adolescent female sexuality.

[Austin]

I like the Dutch focus on healthy relationships. I plan to be open and honest with my son about sex as he grows up. He's only 1 1/2 so far our "sex" talks involve mentioning his penis when he's taking a bath and I label all of his body parts as I wash them.

Being on the other side of this approach, I can tell you it really works. There are no awkward moments, no "sex talk" becase you and your children have been talking about it all along without embarrassment or shame, they know they can ask you anything and they may even tell you everything (sometimes TMI :D ). Some of that last part probably depends a lot on the personality of the child, but at least that's how it has worked out at Chez Austin.

[Witsec7]

True, bit it's not always that 'easy'.

I get hit with 'corrupting a minor' charges, even if they get dropped, and I'm suddenly not only likely to find myself unemployed, but I"m unemployable in my field.

That makes it that much harder for us to figure that crap out in 12-18 years or so when it starts coming up in our family.

No one said it was easy dawbs. And none of us are talking about children having sex, we're talking teens and teens in relationships.And no one is advocating that you follow us in spirit or practice. MY contributions to this subject are based on experience. My nest is empty with nary an unplanned grandchild as a surprise. Your paranoia about about criminal charges may be based on your own knowledge of the laws in YOUR state.

[bananacat]

I had sex as a teenager and it was not because of peer pressure. I initiated it with the first boy, and we weren't even exclusively dating. I had sex with several other boys too, and I don't regret any of it. Sometimes teens are ready for sex and sometimes they're not, but that's a decision that my hypothetical teenager would have to make for themselves. I would talk to my hypothetical kids as much as I can about everything, including safe sex and peer pressure, but there comes a time when I would just choose to trust them to make decisions for themselves. Sometimes they'll make the wrong decisions, just like every single other person on the other planet. That's just something I will have to accept as a parent, and make my goal minimizing their mistakes rather than being controlling to try to avoid them completely. The hardest part of being a parent is letting your kid make their own decisions, even when you think they're not ready. There isn't some magical age where they will suddenly be "ready enough" to make all decisions.

[Witsec7]

I had sex as a teenager and it was not because of peer pressure. I initiated it with the first boy, and we weren't even exclusively dating. I had sex with several other boys too, and I don't regret any of it. Sometimes teens are ready for sex and sometimes they're not, but that's a decision that my hypothetical teenager would have to make for themselves. I would talk to my hypothetical kids as much as I can about everything, including safe sex and peer pressure, but there comes a time when I would just choose to trust them to make decisions for themselves. Sometimes they'll make the wrong decisions, just like every single other person on the other planet. That's just something I will have to accept as a parent, and make my goal minimizing their mistakes rather than being controlling to try to avoid them completely. The hardest part of being a parent is letting your kid make their own decisions, even when you think they're not ready. There isn't some magical age where they will suddenly be "ready enough" to make all decisions.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Patsy]

While I would definitely encourage an open dialogue with my teen (if I had one), I would not encourage them to be having sex. I just don't think many teens these days have the emotional maturity to handle a sexual relationship.

Who encourages their teenager to have sex? Who, in this thread, has said that they would or have?

[Soldier of the One]

I think the advantage of 'sex sleepovers' (which sounds a lot kinkier than it probably is) is that it is monitored and requires a level of intimacy and emotional maturity of the young couple. I think it is significant that the article distinguished between a culture of 'hooking up' and acknowledging 'young love'. Like, actual love - and an actual young relationship.

Perhaps if you trust (older) teens to actually have a genuine, safe, respectful and mutually consensual relationship and reward that with the ability to share that relationship under your roof, then maybe that's the most effective way to battle the 'hooking up' culture.

[latraviata]

I like the Dutch focus on healthy relationships. I plan to be open and honest with my son about sex as he grows up. He's only 1 1/2 so far our "sex" talks involve mentioning his penis when he's taking a bath and I label all of his body parts as I wash them.

In the Netherlands we often take a bath or a shower with the children together.

[Cran]

Yepp, I remember taking baths with my maternal grandfather when I was a preschooler. And naked swimming of all family members in our pool (in the garden, not public).

I turned out a bit weired, but not in the sexual department, so I guess it was alright. ;)

[Clementine]

In Sweden we had so much sexual education shoved down our throats from fifth grade that sex became kind of uninteresting. And gross. I still remember the educational pictures of penises and prostate glands and shudder.

We also had unlimited access to condoms and a youth center where we could go to get free pills, talk about sex, get councelling.

Most people in my high school were single until we graduated and only one girl got pregnant as far as I know. She kept the baby. I never heard any rumours about pregnancies or abortions, although someone must have had one.

EDIT: Just to clarify: we weren't encouraged to go out and sleep around. But since love and sex is a part of life from the teens, we were taught to have sex in a responsible way, if we were going to have it.

Nudity was something natural when I grew up in the 70's. My family used to go skinny dipping in the summers and visit the sauna together.

[yetanothermeg]

In the Netherlands we often take a bath or a shower with the children together.

Many of us do that in America too. I used to bathe with my parents, they were very open about the human body being normal and natural, used proper names for body parts, etc, however my mom tried to put the fear of god into us about having sex as teenagers (not that I ever got the opportunity, cause I would have jumped at it anyway). Really, I think she was afraid of us getting pregnant at a young age. I had sex about five minutes after I went off to college. Still a teen, but living on my own then.

I have sons and plan to be a lot more realistic about their emerging sexuality.

[Austin]

In the Netherlands we often take a bath or a shower with the children together.

We still get into the spa as family occasionally, usually in the evenings, and we always do it in the nude. Nobody thinks a thing about it. I don't walk around the house naked, but my sons often come to talk to me when I am showering and getting ready (in my own bedroom/bath). I assume that if it bothered them, they wouldn't come into the room then, so it must not.

I do think that the female form must surely be no mystery to them, and they know that real women do not look like what they may see in the media/magazines.

[Katiebug]

We plan to be open and honest with our kids about sex. Honestly it is our hope that they would wait until they're older and in a committed relationship to take that step. That said, if our 16 year old daughter says that she wants to be on the Pill or if our 17 year old son (hypothetical at this point) wants condoms then we'd rather help them get what they need to be as safe as possible. I'm under no illusions that teenagers won't have sex if they want to and since I have no desire to wind up a grandmother before my 50s, I'd rather enable safety.

I have my limits and there will not be any significant others sleeping over until adulthood. There's no way in hell I'd be OK with the knowledge that my minor child is having sex on the other side of his/her bedroom door. Sorry, it won't happen.

[latraviata]

We plan to be open and honest with our kids about sex. Honestly it is our hope that they would wait until they're older and in a committed relationship to take that step. That said, if our 16 year old daughter says that she wants to be on the Pill or if our 17 year old son (hypothetical at this point) wants condoms then we'd rather help them get what they need to be as safe as possible. I'm under no illusions that teenagers won't have sex if they want to and since I have no desire to wind up a grandmother before my 50s, I'd rather enable safety.

I have my limits and there will not be any significant others sleeping over until adulthood. There's no way in hell I'd be OK with the knowledge that my minor child is having sex on the other side of his/her bedroom door. Sorry, it won't happen.

They better have sex in their car, street corner, public park in the bushes, cycle shed or an alley??

[emmiedahl]

latraviata, in the US you could be arrested for letting your children have sex in your home. It is called "contributing to the delinquency of a minor." You also cannot let your child or their friends have a glass of wine with dinner. It's crazy that in a culture where parental rights are such a hot point, you do not have the right to allow them to have sex or drink responsibly. You can beat them senseless, but don't give them condoms!!!

I personally have "looked the other way" when my son is pretty obviously going to stay the night at his girlfriend's house. It's a legally sketchy middle ground. I don't want my kids having sex in a car in some remote region where any bad person could be lurking in the bushes, but that is kind of an American rite of passage. I do plan to rent a hotel room for my son on prom night if he wants one, because sex on prom night is a Great American Tradition.

[bananacat]

My mom let me drink alcohol when I was a teenager. It was illegal for her to do that but she did it anyway. She believed it was better for me to drink under her supervision than to do it who knows where. I would do the same thing for my own hypothetical children. I would take that risk for the good of my child, and the same goes for allowing them to have their boyfriend or girlfriend spend the night.

[Witsec7]

We drank at home as folks from Europe would. My parents ignored the law, and wine and responsible drinking in the home was permitted. I was a bit tighter on drinking in the home since my DDs father had issues with alcohol. I would prefer children learning to use alcohol responsibly rather than repress the exploration and contribute to binge drinking.

[latraviata]

latraviata, in the US you could be arrested for letting your children have sex in your home. It is called "contributing to the delinquency of a minor." You also cannot let your child or their friends have a glass of wine with dinner. It's crazy that in a culture where parental rights are such a hot point, you do not have the right to allow them to have sex or drink responsibly. You can beat them senseless, but don't give them condoms!!!

I personally have "looked the other way" when my son is pretty obviously going to stay the night at his girlfriend's house. It's a legally sketchy middle ground. I don't want my kids having sex in a car in some remote region where any bad person could be lurking in the bushes, but that is kind of an American rite of passage. I do plan to rent a hotel room for my son on prom night if he wants one, because sex on prom night is a Great American Tradition.

Sometimes when I watch Saint Doctor Phil (after all we are colleagues ;) ), I noticed the different legislation concerning child rearing.

So apparantly the uptightnes about sex and alcohol is not only religiously based bur also legally based.

[Deesire]

I find it so ironic when a social attitude says that teenagers aren't ready for sex but that they ARE ready for... wait for it... marriage?! It is so bizarre to me that young people can legally get married (sometimes as young as 16, I think?) but can't enter into most other contracts until age of majority and, in most American states, can't drink until age 21. It seems to me that being able to promise to someone that you will be with them until death do you part, no matter what the circumstances, should be the last thing you become old enough to do. I don't have kids but conceptually I find it much more problematic to think of any hypothetical teenager I may have wanting to get married rather than wanting to have sex.

On the teenage sleepover issue, I liked my mom's approach; a relative once asked her if my boyfriend and I stayed over at her place, whether she should have us stay in the same room or separate room. My mom said "your house, your rules". (I was at least 19 at the time, so I'm talking about teenager only in the oldest sense of the term). That reassured me because my mom knew I'd been having sleepovers at my bfriend's house but had never asked about sleeping arrangements (we were sleeping in the same bed) but she did not allow sleepovers at her place at that time. That was one time when I'd been glad to adhere by the "don't ask, don't tell" policy but it was nice to overhear her saying that to her relative because then I didn't feel I had to be secretive about sleeping arrangements at bfriend's house if it ever came up. She did eventually allow sleepovers with that bfriend. We were together from just before I turned 19 until I was about 23.

[Feberin]

Being on the other side of this approach, I can tell you it really works. There are no awkward moments, no "sex talk" becase you and your children have been talking about it all along without embarrassment or shame, they know they can ask you anything and they may even tell you everything (sometimes TMI :D ). Some of that last part probably depends a lot on the personality of the child, but at least that's how it has worked out at Chez Austin.

That's good to know. I figure it's pretty easy talking to a toddler frankly so hopefully by starting now I can be ready for when he gets older.

In the Netherlands we often take a bath or a shower with the children together.

My son and I often take showers together and sometimes he showers with my husband.