Mississippi's 'Personhood' Law Could Outlaw Birth Control

[GeoBQn]

The pregnancy center I support does present the message of Christ to women. They do not make any stipulations on providing services however. They do provide assistance such as diapers and clothes to the women and they also partner with area childcare centers which provide free service in some cases.

While these local pregnancy centers do not have the same budget and cannot provide as much service as some government plans, I do feel woman are better served by these private organizations. I wish there were more of them and they had more donations so that we could reduce the amount that government financial assistance needed.

So your pregnancy center is like those five "pregnancy centers" in North Carolina that told a Jewish woman she was going to hell unless she converted to Christianity?

[jericho]

I take issue with this. I was a virgin until I was raped at 17 and ended up pregnant. The moment I found out about the pregnancy, it was like being raped all over again. Also, if I kept the baby, the rapist could sue me for parental rights, visitation, custody, child support or tried to block an adoption. (He had a history of acquaintance rape and then stalking and harassing his victims.) I knew I could not keep the baby so I chose to abort. It was not a decision I made in a blithe or glib manner. And it definitely wasn't for my own convenience. It would have been convenient to have a baby- my parents were supportive of whatever decision I made, I had just graduated high school and could have put college off for a year, and my part-time job would not have had a problem with a pregnant teenager. But I chose to abort because I could not stand knowing that my rapist left a piece of himself behind. So, yeah, saying that women have abortions because it's convenient, like I'm booking a haircut, is really stupid.

For the reason you just shared is why I stated "primarily". I am sorry for what happened to you. I would definitely not consider your situation as convenience.

[Burris]

I also believe abortion is used primarily as a method of convenience.

Oh yes - goodness knows how many women are just too stupid to use birth control on a regular basis - whoopsies! - and so they go to the local abortion clinic every three months or so because the comparatively expensive, intrusive, uncomfortable, potentially embarrassing day surgery is so much more convenient (and more fun, too) than taking a pill or applying a rubber.

In fact, did you know some women actually get together every few months to have "abortion parties" where they kick back, drink champagne, watch chick-flicks, and compare stories from all those fun times they had in the stirrups? TRUFAX.

I support any program (government or otherwise) that will genuinely and efficiently help troubled women who give birth. I do not support all government programs because some are not genuine and efficient.

What are your standards for "genuineness" and "efficiency"? Because from what I can tell from, in every credible source I've read about CPCs, most of those organizations are neither genuine – they pretend (by proximity and matched signage and evasive phone conversations) to be medical facilities, and then they lie their asses off about the risks of first trimester abortion – nor efficient: Some of them bitch about catching more women who want to have babies – those ladies fall outside their target audience, doncha know – than “abortion-minded†women.

I believe it is better for private organizations to help than government programs, and I personally choose to financially support a local private (non government) pregnancy center.

Who accredits national and state/provincial CPCs? Who inspects them to ensure they meet standards for client confidentiality and safety? How is success measured for a client besides “she didn’t abort� Is there follow-up? A robust referral program? (Referral programs can be run on the cheap, so there's absolutely no excuse whatsoever for any CPC not to have a referral person on staff who connects clients with appropriate community resources.)

Let's hear about the checks and balances applied at the CPC you support. If you're giving them money, you should already know this answer without cheating.

[Burris]

Bonk! Double-post.

[emmiedahl]

I am against abortion. I believe God has a plan for every living person. I also believe abortion is used primarily as a method of convenience.

So I take it you have personally spoke to a wide variety of women who have had abortions and performed some kind of statistical analysis. Would you be so kind as to share that with us?

I support any program (government or otherwise) that will genuinely and efficiently help troubled women who give birth.

So you vote Democrat. Good for you.

I do not support all government programs because some are not genuine and efficient.

How can a government program be 'genuine'? Can you elaborate?

I also believe it is better for private organizations to help than government programs, and I personally choose to financially support a local private (non government) pregnancy center.

So you think that a used carseat and a bag of out-of-date food will provide a child with all that they need? Because that is what churches are offering--at most.

If you want to prevent abortion, here are a few simple steps that have been shown to work in other nations.

1. Remove the social stigma regarding out-of-wedlock pregnancy. Make it a 'no shame' proposition.

2. Offer free birth control to anyone who wants it, no limitations. Make sure teens are aware of the free birth control and encouraged to use it.

3. Offer cradle to grave social services that ensure every child can have a good life without begging for pittance from religious organizations.

[atheistjd]

If I am to believe that every unborn child is sacred and has a purpose, then my opinion would have to be that all of the reasons you listed are a matter of convenience for the mother. This is not to say I have no sympathy for the mother, I just believe life is more important than social situation.

But pregnant women are not allowed to have a purpose? Are not allowed to decide what to do with their bodies, education and careers? Not to mention tragedies like the other poster brought up - abortion, and the reasons for abortions, including but not limited to psychologically dealing with a rape or caring for other children and providing the best life possible for them. Those are not "social situation" [sic] - those are HER life. I also believe life is important - I just don't think the only life that matters is that of the unborn. I think grown humans should actually have some rights too.

[longskirtlotsakids]

That your person cares means crap to me. I had a medical condition during pregnancy that left me half blind and with a stroke. This type of condition can happen to any woman. THe amount of caring means nothing to me when my children could grow up orphans because of your religious ideology.

Women need non-biased, well researched, and safe medical care, not good intentions.

What you are willing to offer is YOUR DEFINITION of care.

I come from Ireland, where the Magdalene Laundries are still fresh in our history. I have LIVED IN a society where "God" gets to make the choices regarding women's bodies, to the point where laboring mothers are denied pain meds to "bring them closer to Christ." Children were neither valued nor cared for. It was more about telling women what to do with their bodies.

You care so much? Go lobby for legislation to make it a felony for a man to father an unwanted child. Make it really, really, hard for men to go spread semen around where it's not wanted. When I hear Xtians attack the issue of unwanted pregnancy from a MALE PERSPECTIVE, then I might listen to your cause.

[Austin]

The pregnancy center I support does present the message of Christ to women. They do not make any stipulations on providing services however. They do provide assistance such as diapers and clothes to the women and they also partner with area childcare centers which provide free service in some cases.

While these local pregnancy centers do not have the same budget and cannot provide as much service as some government plans, I do feel woman are better served by these private organizations. I wish there were more of them and they had more donations so that we could reduce the amount that government financial assistance needed.

I volunteered at one of these centers in my fundie-lite days, and I can tell you that their clients are not "better served". The center I volunteered at was considered a prime example of a good "pregnancy distress center" and actually had a pretty big budget. It was supported a great deal by Catholic charities, and the director was an excellent fundraiser. It even received funding from the United Way for a time.

That doesn't mean the center didn't lure women in with "free pregnancy tests" and while they were waiting on the results, put them in a little room to watch a slasher-type abortion video. These videos have largely been found to be bogus, as many of the messed-up fetuses shown in them were not the result of elective abortion.

But anyway, IMO, this was exploitive, and it always bothered me. If the pregnancy test was positive, and the woman said she wanted to have the baby, then the closets were opened and she could pick out maternity clothes, layette items, and even furniture and other bigger items. If she wasn't sure or felt too overwhelmed at that moment to even know what she wanted to do, she was preached at and guilt-tripped. She was not given referrals or offers of further help unless she made the "right" decision, right there and then.

So, really, those centers help the women who behave the way they want, which are largely women who were going to carry to term anyway. I don't begrudge the help that they give to that population of women, but to present those centers as solutions for all women in that position is dishonest.

[prairiemuffin]

If I am to believe that every unborn child is sacred and has a purpose, then my opinion would have to be that all of the reasons you listed are a matter of convenience for the mother. This is not to say I have no sympathy for the mother, I just believe life is more important than social situation.

Well, that's awesome. If you could pm me your home address, I'll be driving around my city the next couple of days and rounding up as many unwanted children I can cram in a van, then dropping them off at your doorstep!

[atheistjd]

I take issue with this. I was a virgin until I was raped at 17 and ended up pregnant. The moment I found out about the pregnancy, it was like being raped all over again. Also, if I kept the baby, the rapist could sue me for parental rights, visitation, custody, child support or tried to block an adoption. (He had a history of acquaintance rape and then stalking and harassing his victims.) I knew I could not keep the baby so I chose to abort. It was not a decision I made in a blithe or glib manner. And it definitely wasn't for my own convenience. It would have been convenient to have a baby- my parents were supportive of whatever decision I made, I had just graduated high school and could have put college off for a year, and my part-time job would not have had a problem with a pregnant teenager. But I chose to abort because I could not stand knowing that my rapist left a piece of himself behind. So, yeah, saying that women have abortions because it's convenient, like I'm booking a haircut, is really stupid.

LauraElle - I am so sorry this happened to you. I am also sorry you have to relive your very personal decision and have people like jericho question your choice. You are obviously a very brave woman.

[wtfrenchtoast]

For the reason you just shared is why I stated "primarily". I am sorry for what happened to you. I would definitely not consider your situation as convenience.

Okay, I'm not trying to minimize LauraElle's situation at all. It is a terrible thing to happen to a woman. But in the case of a woman, or girl, who is emotionally, financially, or mentally unable to handle a pregnancy and a child, why is that considered 'convenient' while rape victim situations are not?

[BravaAmica]

You care so much? Go lobby for legislation to make it a felony for a man to father an unwanted child. Make it really, really, hard for men to go spread semen around where it's not wanted. When I hear Xtians attack the issue of unwanted pregnancy from a MALE PERSPECTIVE, then I might listen to your cause.

:clap: :dance:

What she said.

[BravaAmica]

Okay, I'm not trying to minimize LauraElle's situation at all. It is a terrible thing to happen to a woman. But in the case of a woman, or girl, who is emotionally, financially, or mentally unable to handle a pregnancy and a child, why is that considered 'convenient' while rape victim situations are not?

Pssst. I know you're not minimizing.

carry on..

[longskirtlotsakids]

YEah, well you know what? I don;t believe that a fetus is life, but potential life. I also believe that God is a construction of man, a purely pretend myth.

By that line, YOUR god is the "social situation" that is trying to impact on MY life. Get it? My body, my life? Your god is a convenience to you, one you use to try to possibly end my life (as a pregnancy could.)

[doggie]

I guess god has a plan for all those children that starve to death? also the children raped and beaten by his believers? These statements are as blind as the people spouting them.

[Burris]

Because the women are cared for by someone who is most likely a volunteer or low paid staff and has more of a heart for the person. Also, the money of the organization is used more efficient than government funds, so dollars are stretched and help more people.

Trololol.

People who aren't paid care more, by virtue of their working for free, than RNs and doctors and licensed counselors who spent years of their lives paying for degrees that allow them to do this for a living?

You know why I find this funny? Because I bet - I am willing to lay down money - that you also pay to support a pastor for his weekly service to your congregation.

[MerryHappy]

You care so much? Go lobby for legislation to make it a felony for a man to father an unwanted child. Make it really, really, hard for men to go spread semen around where it's not wanted. When I hear Xtians attack the issue of unwanted pregnancy from a MALE PERSPECTIVE, then I might listen to your cause.

+1

My personal dealings with CPCs have been hugely negative. I was grilled about what led up to my pregnancy, what my home life was like and then I was pressed to consider adoption. The CPC worked seemed to care more about farming out the potential child than actually listening to what I was saying.

Add that in with my experiences being forced to attend pro-life rallies as a child where it was expected that we (as children) would scream horrible things at women who were standing up for the right to choose.

I donate my money to an organization that I truly believes helps women who need it and that is Planned Parenthood.

The pro-life movement has made itself so unattractive, so out of touch with reality that I have walked away completely from their ranks. I do not regret having done so.

[formergothardite]

Has anyone read Dickens lately? Life sucked majorly for poor kids back in the day when private programs made up most of the care.

[antifundie]

In fact, did you know some women actually get together every few months to have "abortion parties" where they kick back, drink champagne, watch chick-flicks, and compare stories from all those fun times they had in the stirrups? TRUFAX.

Burris, I don't know about YOUR clinic, but mine hands out "9 abortions, get the 10th free!!" cards. I'm only two away from my free one--yay! :roll:

[jericho]

+1

My personal dealings with CPCs have been hugely negative. I was grilled about what led up to my pregnancy, what my home life was like and then I was pressed to consider adoption. The CPC worked seemed to care more about farming out the potential child than actually listening to what I was saying.

Add that in with my experiences being forced to attend pro-life rallies as a child where it was expected that we (as children) would scream horrible things at women who were standing up for the right to choose.

I donate my money to an organization that I truly believes helps women who need it and that is Planned Parenthood.

The pro-life movement has made itself so unattractive, so out of touch with reality that I have walked away completely from their ranks. I do not regret having done so.

We all donate money to Planned Parenthood. Our tax dollars.

[wtfrenchtoast]

Burris, I don't know about YOUR clinic, but mine hands out "9 abortions, get the 10th free!!" cards. I'm only two away from my free one--yay! :roll:

Yeah, the local one I know of actually has a pretty neat Bring a Friend discount. So convenient!

[Kitty]

We all donate money to Planned Parenthood. Our tax dollars.

Taxes don't cover everything, and they also pay to send the oh-so-precious children off to die on the other side of the world.

[GeoBQn]

We all donate money to Planned Parenthood. Our tax dollars.

Tax dollars that are specifically allotted to providing services other than abortion.

[Austin]

We all donate money to Planned Parenthood. Our tax dollars.

It's true that PP has government contracts to provide health care to poor women. However, no tax dollars can be used for abortion services, per the Hyde Amendment, which has been in place since 1976. Only about 3% of PP's services are abortion-related and by law, these cannot be federally-funded.

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/planned-parenthood/

So, no, your tax dollars have not paid for anyone's abortion.

[Angri-la]

If I am to believe that every unborn child is sacred and has a purpose, then my opinion would have to be that all of the reasons you listed are a matter of convenience for the mother. This is not to say I have no sympathy for the mother, I just believe life is more important than social situation.

So, jericho, how many teen mom and under poverty moms do you help out? Do you donate time or goods to families who have children and no money? Have you adopted? I suspect you spew instead of do.

Me, I donate to Planned Parenthood so women can get healthcare. Abortion is a small part of what they do. I have fostered plenty of children that were born to people who didn't want them, and let me tell you, I didn't see a lot of "Pro-Life" people at the foster care meetings I went to, mostly a bunch of heathen Pro-Choice people.

Love that George Carlin quote, because it is true.