the duggars on reality tv - industry perspective.

[vicka]

I'm a very long time lurker here. I have seen some threads about the Duggars and I thought I have something valuable to add to this forum regarding how reality tv works and how the Duggars set up is structured. Let me premise this by saying i'm not familiar with the 19 kids show in particular, but i'm very familiar with the industry and reality shows. so for what its worth, here it goes.

The children participating on reality shows are not considered actors. In fact, they are not even considered employed. crazy you say? Oh yes, very. After all these children spend COUNTLESS and I do mean countless hours being filmed. it is tiring, an invasion of privacy and probably totally messes with their heads. however, the law hasn't caught up and they are not considered actors. If they were considered actors the rules for their employment would be quite strict. A teacher would have to be present on the set to make sure they were receiving a proper education. A social worker would be meeting with them on a regular basis. The producers of the show would need to make sure to give them regular breaks (cameras would have to be turned off). There are numerous other rules that the producers would have to abide by. The bottom line is this: the children's rights would be protected. Moneys they are earning would be siphoned into a trust fund (for a reason... because the parents can't keep their grabby hands off the kids money). The law is set up so that a child's right is protected. However, reality tv gets to go around the law. Numerous abuses are the reason why these laws were set up. Its baffling to me that these people are getting away with this garbage.

 

So onto the money. I do not know how much the duggars make in particular, however, I can tell you that according to their ratings my best guess would be about 25 to 50 k for an episode. there are a variety of factors that go into this decision, but a lot depends on how good of a negotiate JB is. This is probably a lot less money than many people thought, but reality tv really doesn't pay well at all which is why it is so cheap to produce.

 

I have heard this question asked many times... do the older kids have their own contracts. Please understand, the reality tv industry is COMPLETELY unsupervised. there is no rule or law that says a person over the age of 18 must receive ANY compensation to appear on such shows. Most likely the older kids are not being paid, but they would have to sign a waiver (as would JB and Michelle on behalf of younger kids). Since this is a patriarchical family the waiver would be a non issue. My hunch is that the only person on this show being paid is Jim Bob WITH the possible exception of Josh.

 

About Josh. I watched in horror as Josh's modest wife had to give birth on reality tv. I do believe that josh sold anna out and probably not even for that much money. I can almost guarantee you that some kind of negotiation went on while anna was in labor or immediately prior to it. Josh on the phone with a producer... if you are going to film her giving birth, I need an extra 5k. Something alone those lines. It sounds like something out of a horror movie but it absolutely DOES happen. I have seen it. Josh is despicable and as far as I'm concerned in this circumstance at least he sold Anna out.

 

Josie. that poor baby. there was MANY lights on josie in the intensive care unit. I do not know if these units are kept that well lit on purpose, but to me it looked like there was a light guy holding the light right on her as they were filming. I can only imagine the hot and bright lights did not just feel unpleasant (as they do to an adult) but were downright dangerous to someone with an unstable body temperature. remember, there is no law protecting her, the only people who are supposed to protect her (her parents) are long gone kookoo.

 

I am not a religious person, but if i was I would say these people sold their soul to the devil. The funny thing is it doesn't happen overnight. and they may have been well motivated. but little by little money and fame ate away at whatever believes they had initially. they are a shell of what they were (as are many people in the entertainment industry in general). Pride... the deadliest sin of all.

 

Feel free to ask any questions, i 'll do my best to answer them.

[anniebgood]

Some of my family works in episodic television so I know a little bit about crews and setups and sets and the like. In reality shows such as 19K&C what is the crew size? They've got a sound guy, a camera guy but how many producers, grips, best boys, makeup, wardrobe, and craft services would they have?

[Guest Anonymous]

Another point to note is crews for these shows are nonunion. No overtime, usually a seasonal contract. In many cases crews are retained from season to season because of the rapport they have built with the folks they film. The benefits packages for these folks are substantially lower than what union emps. make.

Reality TV is low budget TV. My husband worked (crafts) on a well known soap for almost two decades, he made a healthy living with the studio, had great benefits and earned a good retirement. He was assured of lunch breaks, vacations and holidays etc. Reality tv folk work until its done for what ever rate they've negotiated on their own behalf. Initially its a crap shoot. If the series succeeds they may be able to a few consecutive years of work before they're on the rat wheel. Skill sets differ as well.

Good post vicka.

[vicka]

Some of my family works in episodic television so I know a little bit about crews and setups and sets and the like. In reality shows such as 19K&C what is the crew size? They've got a sound guy, a camera guy but how many producers, grips, best boys, makeup, wardrobe, and craft services would they have?

i had a lovely long post all typed out and the internets ate it! grrrr!!!

ya, so back to crew. usually 2 or 3 camera guys each with his or her own mike guy. when the lighting is bad there also be a light guy attached to each camera guy as well. a catering set up to feed the crew (usually no full craft service... because those are expensive and none is required if you are not union). no wardrobe no hair usually. one producer on the set usually, although not at all times. the producer makes decisions and can call for a scene retake (yes, they do happen). I've seen a few times on the show when the scene looked downright fake to me (although i don't remember the exact instances). back at home base, there are editors, sound editors, another producer or two (usually the senior guy is back at home base stitching the show together), people who assist those guys and a few interns. a fairly low key set up nothing like a real set.

oh and forgot to mention the duggars have a room in their house dedicated to confessionals. do you have a room like that in your house? i certainly don't. so much for "reality."

[vicka]

Another point to note is crews for these shows are nonunion. No overtime, usually a seasonal contract. In many cases crews are retained from season to season because of the rapport they have built with the folks they film. The benefits packages for these folks are substantially lower than what union emps. make.

Reality TV is low budget TV. My husband worked (crafts) on a well known soap for almost two decades, he made a healthy living with the studio, had great benefits and earned a good retirement. He was assured of lunch breaks, vacations and holidays etc. Reality tv folk work until its done for what ever rate they've negotiated on their own behalf. Initially its a crap shoot. If the series succeeds they may be able to a few consecutive years of work before they're on the rat wheel. Skill sets differ as well.

Good post vicka.

yes totally agree. everyone is non union which basically means everyone works on contract. but at least the crew can decide if they want to sign... the kids don't have such privelege.

[StarrieEyedKat]

Thanks vicka!

I suppose it's silly of me to be a little surprised that the of-age J'slaves (and John David) probably aren't being paid. That makes me sad for them - that potential income could have helped them stand on their own two feet. The brainwashing of all of those children sickens me, as does the fact that they're forced to perform like trained monkeys to support their parents' greed. Any and all filming/broadcasting of the children while they're sick or in pain (Josie, Jason, etc) is just...well, I can't think about it too much without wanting to drive to Arkansas to slap some sense into Michelle and Jim Bob.

[StarrieEyedKat]

i had a lovely long post all typed out and the internets ate it! grrrr!!!

ya, so back to crew. usually 2 or 3 camera guys each with his or her own mike guy. when the lighting is bad there also be a light guy attached to each camera guy as well. a catering set up to feed the crew (usually no full craft service... because those are expensive and none is required if you are not union). no wardrobe no hair usually. one producer on the set usually, although not at all times. the producer makes decisions and can call for a scene retake (yes, they do happen). I've seen a few times on the show when the scene looked downright fake to me (although i don't remember the exact instances). back at home base, there are editors, sound editors, another producer or two (usually the senior guy is back at home base stitching the show together), people who assist those guys and a few interns. a fairly low key set up nothing like a real set.

oh and forgot to mention the duggars have a room in their house dedicated to confessionals. do you have a room like that in your house? i certainly don't. so much for "reality."

Do you know if it's a room they had built or added specifically for that, or did they re-purpose (hah!) a room - like the prayer closet - to use for confessionals since the howler monkeys and crying babies are so loud?

[vicka]

Do you know if it's a room they had built or added specifically for that, or did they re-purpose (hah!) a room - like the prayer closet - to use for confessionals since the howler monkeys and crying babies are so loud?

confessionals are always a separate room anyway, even without the kids. You have a nice lightning and sound set up in there, you got your background set up. the confessional looks like a real (although low key) set. you don't want to disassemble all of that each time you finish with a confession! so you basically just leave it alone and you film in there all the time anyway. i think they have a video or a multimedia room in the house? I remember hearing about that and thinking, oh thats code word for confessional! and i can promise you when they are doing a confession, its all quiet on the set (and since the house is the set...) . the howler monkeys are probably send outside!

[takers401]

I believe their confessional is set up in a separate building from the house, like an old storage shed. I'm pretty sure there was an episode (the one where they took the latest promotional pics) that they describe converting the shed for this purpose.

[marmalade]

I remember that as well, takers. I think the confessional is set up in a small corner of their commercial rental building on their land.

[Vex]

I agree completely with the OP. When I was an actor as a kid, the environment was always lovely. People were always making sure you were comfortable/fed/educated/entertained, and even though there were bad elements (like early mornings, wearing summer clothes during winter shoots, long days), the set was always a nice place to be.

I've never done reality TV, but I do know some producers and casting directors who are involved. It's an awful business. I really feel sorry for those kids. I'm sure they have the same sense of 'community' with the crew that I got to experience (they seem very comfortable with all the crew in out takes), but aside from that I doubt they get any of the other perks. No one is watching them, taking care of them and looking out for their best interests, except for their older siblings (if they're not too busy being interviewed themselves).

[LIzzieB]

I have a friend who was on Beauty & the Geek who wasn't paid anything. He had to sign a contract that he was available for six weeks 24/7, plus be away from home and work with no phone or email contact. As he "left the house" on the first episode, he then was essentially in lockdown at a hotel for three weeks, so that folks at home wouldn't know how many episodes he had been on before it was screened. He had a lot of fun and made some great friends, but I still find it absurd that a 29-year-old received no renumeration for it apart from being housed and fed. The show is now screening in Norway, and he's not receiving any royalties for that either.

It doesn't surprise me at all that the older Duggar kids would not be receiving anything.

[lilwriter85]

Good posts vicka and thank you for giving us additional insights. Confessionals have been used for a long time in reality shows. I have wondered about the Duggars' confessional room and I also remembering hearing about that shed that takers401 mentioned.

[darareaksmey]

I guess it never sank in to me that Josh must've been negotiating in that way to get Anna's childbirth on TV. That fat fuck. He is even lower than I imagined. I always disdained JB for hanging his family's dirty laundry out there for a price, especially given their family's fundy beliefs. But I had no idea that the price is so low. Even if JB were inclined to sock it away and divvy it up appropriately amongst his herd of kids, that's hardly $1-2000 per episode per family member. It's a nice income for him, but if it were just The JimBoob Duggar Show, no one would be watching and there'd be no show. So I guess I'll modify to say it's a nice income when you have a herd of unpaid slaves and howler monkeys who'll entertain and look out for each other, since you as their headship haven't secured any benefits whatsoever for the family.

[lilwriter85]

I always thought Josh probably demanded some money to air Michael's birth. The guy is greedy.

I'm not surprised that the Duggars are probably the lowest paid reality show stars. Like vicka mentioned their ratings aren't too high and the ratings do effect their salary. In the reality TV show world, the Duggars are on the bottom of the popularity totem pole. The only shows they regularly appear on to promote the show are The Today Show and GMA. They did have an appearance on Joy Behar and a couple of other cable shows. Reality shows that have 3 to 8 million viewers have much more popularity than the Duggars do. I still laugh at Amy Duggar believing that the show gets high ratings, sorry Amy your family's show isn't that popular and more people know about Snooki and the Teen Mom girls than they know about your uncle Boob.

[bananacat]

I have a friend who was on Beauty & the Geek who wasn't paid anything. He had to sign a contract that he was available for six weeks 24/7, plus be away from home and work with no phone or email contact. As he "left the house" on the first episode, he then was essentially in lockdown at a hotel for three weeks, so that folks at home wouldn't know how many episodes he had been on before it was screened. He had a lot of fun and made some great friends, but I still find it absurd that a 29-year-old received no renumeration for it apart from being housed and fed. The show is now screening in Norway, and he's not receiving any royalties for that either.

It doesn't surprise me at all that the older Duggar kids would not be receiving anything.

Thanks for this info. I always wondered what happened to "loser" contestants on basically any competition show. I had always assumed they'd get like $1000 for their time or something like that, but I guess most of them get nothing. I don't often watch long-term competition shows, but I like the one-time things like cooking challenges. I wonder if the cake decorators have to provide their own supplies, or if the tv station gives them an allowance. It would suck if they spent hundreds of dollars on extra supplies only to walk away with nothing.

I've also wondered about long-term, elimination-style competitions. I wonder if there really is a week between shows. I think it would make more sense to film an episode each day, and then just air them a week apart.

[deelaem]

I have a question. How do you know all this information? You weren't really clear on that.

Also, capitalization is your friend. :)

[Hisey]

Did you mean they are making between 25,000-50,000 an episode, or between 2,500-5,000 an episode? Because the first figures seem like a lot of money to me.

Also, wouldn't Josh have done the negotiations about the birth long before the actual birth? Why would he wait till she was about to give birth?

Thanks for answering all these questions!

[darareaksmey]

Did you mean they are making between 25,000-50,000 an episode, or between 2,500-5,000 an episode? Because the first figures seem like a lot of money to me.

Also, wouldn't Josh have done the negotiations about the birth long before the actual birth? Why would he wait till she was about to give birth?

Thanks for answering all these questions!

I dunno. I think $25-50 thousand sounds damn cheap, especially when you consider the sheer numbers of "actors" (i.e., the Duggars and their hangers-on) who are theoretically working for a share of that. Consider the time invested, the physical and logistical hassles and the 99% loss of privacy--and multiply that times 19 Duggar kids, 2 Duggar parents and Anna and her kids, not to mention Grandma and the others who show up from time to time.

[ceg045]

Did you mean they are making between 25,000-50,000 an episode, or between 2,500-5,000 an episode? Because the first figures seem like a lot of money to me.

They did to me, too, until I realized that about a decade ago, when I was a massive Friends fan, the cast signed contracts for $1 million per actor, per episode. That means an episode would cost at least $6 million--that's not counting extras, guest stars, etc. And that was 10 years ago...when you think about it in those terms, $25-50K per episode really does seem like a drop in the bucket.

[Letgo]

What would happen on a show like this if one or more of the adult children went to the producer and demanded to be paid with a separate contract? Would that fly? I don't see how this show could be filmed if Jana, JD, Jill, and Jessa all decided no payment, no appearances. I am sure they would never do that, but I can dream.

And do other family reality shows pay just the parents? Did the Roloffs have contracts for Jeremy and Zach? Somehow, I can't see them appearing on their show without compensation.

[SamuraiKatz]

Jimbob duggar sold his kids and sold em cheap... he needs to get a real job and quit pimping his family for money.

The older kids are young adults and they should be free to live their OWN lives. Unfortunately, their parents were educationally neglectful. They have no academic skills to acquire the training with which to generate a liveable income on their own.

And Josh..he's a lazy lazy immature person. Had no business getting married when he did. I'm pretty sure it was just a publicity stunt for ratings at that point. every picture you see of the two of them, anna has that haunted, caged animal look in her eyes. she had no clue what she was getting into...Now she's trapped with two small kids and no education/job skills to generate her own income.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

How do you know all this information? You weren't really clear on that.

Honestly, how do you know Josh negotiated while Anna was in labor?

[ladypuglover]

Honestly, how do you know Josh negotiated while Anna was in labor?

I'm jumping on this bandwagon as it is too easy to say whatever you like on the internet and be taken as gospel truth. So don't mind me as I sprinkle everything with grains of salt. :whistle:

[bionicmlle]

One thing I've been curious about with these shows is the product placement. Does anyone know if these families actually GET some of this stuff to use or just one day the Swiffer dude shows up, they film J'chelle swiffering the giant kitchen with a smile and then Swiffer is out of their life? Seems like they would get a certain amount of product? More product if they mention it ten times (see Lacoste shirts on Flipping Out)