the duggars on reality tv - industry perspective.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Seems like they would get a certain amount of product?

The Swiffer (when they have a built in wet/dry vacuum system) the cloth playhouse that someone said was also seen on J/K/8, all the name brand soups and bread in the freezer. Even if they only get a case of refills for the Swiffer they've still come out with a 'profit'.....

[xDreamerx]

It's classic product placement. I remember one of the other shows had one for Bounty as well. I wonder if Swiffer and Bounty are owned by the same company? On the website, under the little bio pages they mention Stouffers as well, but as to whether or not that's a tie in I don't know.

25-50K an episode might be peanuts in the television world, but when one considers that the median income of a middle class family is about 50K a year...that seems like an awful lot. That's possibly 100K for just two episodes and they do how many episodes a year? Yes, reality TV has a lot of problems and is an invasion of privacy but they are still making a great deal of money for very little, if any, actual work.

[StarrieEyedKat]

Vicka - from what I can tell you're mostly just guestimating this stuff from what you see on TV - just like the rest of us. I'm assuming you've had a job that gives you a little bit of insider information on how reality shows work?

I've also wondered about long-term, elimination-style competitions. I wonder if there really is a week between shows. I think it would make more sense to film an episode each day, and then just air them a week apart.

I'm fairly sure (from what I've heard in interviews with former contestants of various shows) that it's usually no more than a day or two in real life in between filming "episodes." Although talking head interviews are moved around at random - you can say something at the end of filming and they'll show it in the first week's episode, totally changing what you may have been talking about.

[Stickers]

Given how many reality tv shows there are it's very easy for me to believe this person is legit. What they're saying matches up with what I've read and heard from other people. I also can totally see Josh demanding extra cash to film Anna giving birth. I'm not sure that's a bad thing thought, the people on the "Bring Home Baby" type shows get nothing, and Josh and Anna have no real job skills so it's good for them to have their own money/savings.

[marmalade]

Regarding Smuggar negotiating a birth with TLC, I imagine it was Mack's birth, which was originally planned to be a hospital birth. I can totally see Smuggar on the phone with Sean negotiating terms for Anna to have Mack at home, but since I'm sure the birth had already been planned to be filmed. IIRC, Anna's regular female OB was on vacation and the doctor on call was an ebil male and maybe that doctor refused to sign a TLC waiver; Smuggar was probably able to get a few more bucks out of TLC due to the "emergency" situation they could play up on the "First Grandduggar" VSE.

The second kid was a planned homebirth, likely less of a paycheck for that one.

I've also wondered about long-term, elimination-style competitions. I wonder if there really is a week between shows. I think it would make more sense to film an episode each day, and then just air them a week apart.

The long-term competition shows tape pretty much back to back to back for about 6 weeks (includes the "talking head" segments that are sometimes taped the day of a competition, sometimes after the fact. The contestants are told to say stuff like "I blew it 'last week,' which in real time, would have been the day before, or two at most. However, a lot of the contestants these days say stuff like "I learned a lot about myself over the past few[real time] weeks" 12 "TV weeks" into a competition, or slip up and say that "yesterday's challenge" was draining or whatever. At this point, I think the editors let that stuff go since everyone pretty much knows how taping for those shows rolls.

If the Duggar adult kids aren't getting paid, like Jana and JD, I too would say FUCK IT and do my own thing as much as possible.

[vicka]

Honestly, how do you know Josh negotiated while Anna was in labor?

I don't have any facts about this. these are my guesstimates. its kind of like if someone worked in the restaurant business their entire life holding positions from waitress to owner. they could pretty much walk into a restaurant and be able to estimate how much the place spends on alcohol or what an average bill is, what the terms of the lease are, etc etc. they are not going to get perfect estimates, but usually they will be close for a general overview of the business.

as for Josh negotiating thing. Originally Anna was supposed to give birth in a hospital. and then, lo and behold she is 3 weeks early and her doctor is out of town. coming from personal experience having nothing to do with the entertainment industry I've given birth twice. if my doctor was out of town one of those times i'd be pissed. i'd be scared. one thing i wouldn't do is go from having planned a birth in a hospital to having a completely unplanned birth at home. this seems radical, no? Giving birth in a home is not a decision many women would make lightly... and it seems like it was completely unplanned. but a woman in labor might be vulnerable to a... suggestion. a recommendation. especially if her husband is the one making the recommendation. why would he do such a thing? because he has something to gain by it. to me it didn't seem like it would be logical for Anna to just change her mind like that. it seemed like a change of scene, because the scene they had planned would not work for some reason. remember, if you filming a live birth in a hospital there are things out of your control. for instance, the hospital could be too busy to accomodate a film crew. the doctor could throw the film crew out in the middle of the delivery for safety. the doctor could refuse to appear in an episode. but in a home birth... this is not an issue. you could do whatever the hell you please, film whatever the hell you please. the only reason why i thought josh might have been negotiating last minute is because the whole thing was completely haphazard and unplanned. if the show is filming in a hospital they have a limited access to the principal. on the other hand, at home its a totally different kind of animal and a totally different kind of pay. i have no facts to back this up. none whatsoever. i'm going on my pure gut feeling and over 20 years experience in front (and sometimes behind) the camera.

this is all based on the last minute change. if the last minute change was anna's idea, than no, Josh was probably not negotiating for a payment based on change of shoot. but i better dollars to donuts this was not anna's idea of fun.

[vicka]

Did you mean they are making between 25,000-50,000 an episode, or between 2,500-5,000 an episode? Because the first figures seem like a lot of money to me.

Also, wouldn't Josh have done the negotiations about the birth long before the actual birth? Why would he wait till she was about to give birth?

Thanks for answering all these questions!

no, i did mean 25 to 50 k. to put it in perspective the commercials you see in the commercial breaks pay anywhere from 5 to 25 k per ACTOR (depending on how much they run) and sometimes as much as 75k based on nothing but royalties. each time a commercial runs (a union commercial runs) it pays the principal actors. every single time. a commercial only takes a day or two to film and after that you are free to pursue any kind of work you wish. even a non union commercial with a decent budget pays about 5 to 10k without royalties. the duggars are locked in a contract with tlc and almost no one in reality tv (unless they were already stars before the show) gets royalties. so really, its a lot of money compared to average income but its nothing compared to industry standard.

[vicka]

What would happen on a show like this if one or more of the adult children went to the producer and demanded to be paid with a separate contract? Would that fly? I don't see how this show could be filmed if Jana, JD, Jill, and Jessa all decided no payment, no appearances. I am sure they would never do that, but I can dream.

And do other family reality shows pay just the parents? Did the Roloffs have contracts for Jeremy and Zach? Somehow, I can't see them appearing on their show without compensation.

if they were to demand pay the producers would have to negotiate with them separately. if they are over 18 jb can't just sign for them. they are adults, and they must agree to appear on the program. I wish the adult kids would all gang up on jb. but i don't think that will happen.

[vicka]

One thing I've been curious about with these shows is the product placement. Does anyone know if these families actually GET some of this stuff to use or just one day the Swiffer dude shows up, they film J'chelle swiffering the giant kitchen with a smile and then Swiffer is out of their life? Seems like they would get a certain amount of product? More product if they mention it ten times (see Lacoste shirts on Flipping Out)

the product placement is everywhere. they probably have a clause in their contract that requires them to do product placement. they might make a little bit more off that... but when i estimated 25 to 50 k i meant thats with the product placement payments.

[vicka]

It's classic product placement. I remember one of the other shows had one for Bounty as well. I wonder if Swiffer and Bounty are owned by the same company? On the website, under the little bio pages they mention Stouffers as well, but as to whether or not that's a tie in I don't know.

25-50K an episode might be peanuts in the television world, but when one considers that the median income of a middle class family is about 50K a year...that seems like an awful lot. That's possibly 100K for just two episodes and they do how many episodes a year? Yes, reality TV has a lot of problems and is an invasion of privacy but they are still making a great deal of money for very little, if any, actual work.

it might seem like it, but believe me this is a LOT of work. its a very stressful and difficult environment. it is stressful and difficult for adults... it is VERY tough on kids. there are reasons for so many laws protecting child actors. the kids are open to abuses. this is a very stressful environment.

[vicka]

Given how many reality tv shows there are it's very easy for me to believe this person is legit. What they're saying matches up with what I've read and heard from other people. I also can totally see Josh demanding extra cash to film Anna giving birth. I'm not sure that's a bad thing thought, the people on the "Bring Home Baby" type shows get nothing, and Josh and Anna have no real job skills so it's good for them to have their own money/savings.

brining home baby probably pays about 5 to 7 k a couple... i think its fine if nobody is being pressured into filming a very personal moment. or even more to the point... i wouldn't want the whole world to see me with my legs up in the air screaming in pain. but if another woman doesn't mind being filmed that way, i certainly don't care. free country.

[Buzzard]

brining home baby probably pays about 5 to 7 k a couple... i think its fine if nobody is being pressured into filming a very personal moment. or even more to the point... i wouldn't want the whole world to see me with my legs up in the air screaming in pain. but if another woman doesn't mind being filmed that way, i certainly don't care. free country.

Total hearsay from an attorney I know... but I was told that they get a bonus for "major events" captured outside the presence of the camera crew (like falling in a hole, josie etc). This explains why they're so quick to whip out an iphone and record it. My assumption was that joshie demanded the extra "major event" money to allow them to film and air the birth. He likely got the idea from the first birth, where they were unlikely to find a Dr. that would sign on to a televised quickly and opted to go it alone... and continued the trend...

[vicka]

Total hearsay from an attorney I know... but I was told that they get a bonus for "major events" captured outside the presence of the camera crew (like falling in a hole, josie etc). This explains why they're so quick to whip out an iphone and record it. My assumption was that joshie demanded the extra "major event" money to allow them to film and air the birth. He likely got the idea from the first birth, where they were unlikely to find a Dr. that would sign on to a televised quickly and opted to go it alone... and continued the trend...

very likely they would have such a clause in their contract. after all unplanned events is what increases the ratings, so the production company would be willing to pay a bit extra. I have heard of clauses covering all kinds of things, and penalties for things like weight gain (although i suppose the duggars don't have a weight gain penalty cause you know joshy would be on a diet if they did!)

[Lillian]

Thanks for the insight, vicka. The more I learn about the Duggars the more I am disgusted by their warped world...

[Boogalou]

I'm jumping on this bandwagon as it is too easy to say whatever you like on the internet and be taken as gospel truth. So don't mind me as I sprinkle everything with grains of salt. :whistle:

You still haven't really answered this....

ETA: you haven't answered the original question: How do you know all this information? You weren't really clear on that.

[onlyorganic]

I don't understand the Duggars' reason for having this show. Frankly, I think they are boring and I hate HATE HATE Jim Bob constantly saying how they live debt-free. It's like if my dad left me a huggggggge sum of money and I had the cojones to brag about how I busted my cookie to save and life frugally. The Duggars live in a home that was virtually free and they get so much for free because of that terrible show. The whole debt-free thing just drives me batty.

Question for you: do you think laws will change in the future regarding children in reality tv? I remember when Kate Gosselin showed her kids shits in the potties (with a little *bleep* over the actual turds). I get embarrassed thinking how my mother made me wear a bunny costume one Halloween and took goofy pictures... I think I'd be ruined for life if my mother had had a TV crew come in and chronicle her children's potty-droppings. It's cruel.

[vicka]

You still haven't really answered this....

ETA: you haven't answered the original question: How do you know all this information? You weren't really clear on that.

don't know this information. guessing based on my experience in the industry. i answered to the best of my ability. if you feel thats insufficient, well thats all i got and its certainly your perogative not to "buy into" what i said.

[vicka]

I don't understand the Duggars' reason for having this show. Frankly, I think they are boring and I hate HATE HATE Jim Bob constantly saying how they live debt-free. It's like if my dad left me a huggggggge sum of money and I had the cojones to brag about how I busted my cookie to save and life frugally. The Duggars live in a home that was virtually free and they get so much for free because of that terrible show. The whole debt-free thing just drives me batty.

Question for you: do you think laws will change in the future regarding children in reality tv? I remember when Kate Gosselin showed her kids shits in the potties (with a little *bleep* over the actual turds). I get embarrassed thinking how my mother made me wear a bunny costume one Halloween and took goofy pictures... I think I'd be ruined for life if my mother had had a TV crew come in and chronicle her children's potty-droppings. It's cruel.

I really hope so. there is a reason why these laws were set up. for instance, in california any infant can only be under "lights" for a short period of time. this is due to the fact that an infant has more difficulty regulating body temperature than an adult. what about little Josie? How long does she get to be under the lights every day? What about when she was in the NICU? I hope the doctors protected her. because i don't think the parents would have. I really hope there is a regulation, at least to control what they do to the kids. I hope some child doesn't have to get seriously injured for this to happen. But i feel like these laws are only enacted after some kind of preventable tragedy. this is my fear...

i'm personally disgusted by what is being done to the kids, especially the very little ones. I guess i'd like to put this thread out there, so that JB and company know that they ARE being watched. people in the industry are aware of the abuses. you are not getting away with this if something happens to one of those kids because of your negligence. so i suggest you try to take a little more care.

[Visionoyahweh]

An extra $5k (estimated) so that Michael will be called 'toilet baby'* the rest of his life?

Fuck Josh Duggar.

*even Anna called him that.

[vicka]

An extra $5k (estimated) so that Michael will be called 'toilet baby'* the rest of his life?

Fuck Josh Duggar.

*even Anna called him that.

:(

that just sucks. poor Michael. I was reffering to the first birth, MacKenzie (because it all appeared very unplanned). I haven't been able to watch the show since.

[Buzzard]

:(

that just sucks. poor Michael. I was reffering to the first birth, MacKenzie (because it all appeared very unplanned). I haven't been able to watch the show since.

Would TLC swap out for a female crew for the birth? I'm thinking that she wouldnt be comfie with a man looking at her lady birthin parts even if they would be blurred for TV.

[Visionoyahweh]

that just sucks. poor Michael. I was referring to the first birth, MacKenzie (because it all appeared very unplanned). I haven't been able to watch the show since.

Oh. So do you think they were paid more or less for Michael's birth? I'm guessing less.

Another question: How many times do scenes typically have to rehearsed or acted out before they 'have' it? Do you think this explains the crappy, robotic interaction between the parents and j'kids?

[vicka]

Would TLC swap out for a female crew for the birth? I'm thinking that she wouldnt be comfie with a man looking at her lady birthin parts even if they would be blurred for TV.

good point! i didn't even think of that! under normal circumstances a woman like Anna would request a female cameraperson and a closed set. but are these normal circumstances? And what about the editors and the producers? Someone is going to get to see her hooha. and for a woman who won't show a knee and wears modesty bathing suits, frankly this must feel humiliating. but if Joshy told her to submit to a filming than she would. this whole situation just sucks. I feel for Anna. In labor is the most vulnerable a woman could get... and to have your husband, the father of your child order you to appear on national tv is just horrible.

[vicka]

Oh. So do you think they were paid more or less for Michael's birth? I'm guessing less.

Another question: How many times do scenes typically have to rehearsed or acted out before they 'have' it? Do you think this explains the crappy, robotic interaction between the parents and j'kids?

in terms of pricing for michael's birth i honestly don't know. because of how haphazard Mac's birth seemed I bet they negotiated everything quite far in advance. i also didn't see the film so its hard to estimate.

i don't think they NORMALLY do retakes. retakes on a reality show are kind of rare, at least on most reality shows. but you can bet every episode there is a "oh, we didn't catch the sound on that, can you say that again." or a "do you mind putting josie in the stroller again i got the light wrong on that" or "can we redo the walk down the hallway?" something along those lines. at this point the duggars are very sophisticated reality stars. they are speaking in full sentences when answering questions (when you are asked if you like to read you might say "yes" but they will say why I read all the time! the bible is such a blessing! or something like that). They are giving the "good angle" to the camera. they are slowing down so that the camera man can catch them in just the right moments. these people know they are on camera, are aware of it at all times. i think if anything the robotic interactions are probably due many of them having grown up on camera and being well aware of being watched. frankly, these people are almost as good on camera now as many trained actors.

[mamallama]

I don't understand the Duggars' reason for having this show. Frankly, I think they are boring and I hate HATE HATE Jim Bob constantly saying how they live debt-free. It's like if my dad left me a huggggggge sum of money and I had the cojones to brag about how I busted my cookie to save and life frugally. The Duggars live in a home that was virtually free and they get so much for free because of that terrible show. The whole debt-free thing just drives me batty.

Question for you: do you think laws will change in the future regarding children in reality tv? I remember when Kate Gosselin showed her kids shits in the potties (with a little *bleep* over the actual turds). I get embarrassed thinking how my mother made me wear a bunny costume one Halloween and took goofy pictures... I think I'd be ruined for life if my mother had had a TV crew come in and chronicle her children's potty-droppings. It's cruel.

If they do enact legislation it should be called the Free Jinger Act