Carlin and Evan 13: Living on SM Income

[JermajestyDuggar]

Elevated lead levels in kids used to be way higher because of leaded gasoline. And of course it used to be in paint. But once unleaded gas became the norm, rates of lead in kids went down. However plenty of houses still have old lead paint. I bet ours does but it’s probably under multiple layers of paint. Old water pipes can also contain lead. Do Evan and Carlin live in an old house? I wonder where their elevated lead levels came from. 

[marmalade]

4 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Elevated lead levels in kids used to be way higher because of leaded gasoline. And of course it used to be in paint. But once unleaded gas became the norm, rates of lead in kids went down. However plenty of houses still have old lead paint. I bet ours does but it’s probably under multiple layers of paint. Old water pipes can also contain lead. Do Evan and Carlin live in an old house? I wonder where their elevated lead levels came from. 

Their house is a fairly new build. Definitely not anywhere close to having lead paint. My money is on the cheap Chinese toys. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

Their house looks pretty new.  There can be older water pipes leading to their neighborhood that could have lead. 

But my guess is it's toys. She's just decorated her whole house brand new with amazon type stuff. She's happy to buy cheap clothes from china to sell in her "boutique."

So it stands to reason she's not too fastidious about where her toys come from.

And here I am not buying any ceramics from china for eating, just in case....not even for the dog.

By the by, I somewhat recently found out all that vintage pyrex that's been trendy lately for collecting usually has lead in the glaze. I was thinking it's ok if you didn't heat it up but one website I was reading was saying it's not safe in any use, even washing it could be putting lead on other dishes (in the dishwasher) or on your towels/rags/sponges and hands if you hand wash. I had been using one as a "compost" dish but I have to wash it after use and then I was like "wait - is this adding trace amounts of lead into my compost" 

One of the CDC recommendations talks about tracking lead in on your feet from the soil. Another thing I never thought of. One would hope that's a regional thing like radon??

My grandmother did get a lung disease they think came from spores in the dirt...so...what can you do?

I gave up the old pyrex and bought some harry potter pyrex dishes  (clear glass with a design added to the exterior) at a clearance outlet. So...not all is lost.

 

I started wondering more about this soil thing.

found this interesting article and chart that shows lead levels in USA in soil if you wanna look for your area

https://www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2019/august/lead-exposure.html

 

Apparently some of the soil warning has to do with old lead paint peeling off, being sanded off the exterior of houses and settling in the soil all around the house.

But also the leaded gasoline contaminated the soil in general as well.

Apparently there's a Soil Society of America...wow the things I learn because of weird fundie nonsense.

"The most common type of contaminant in an urban soil is lead. Elevated lead in urban soil comes from the historic use of leaded gasoline and lead paint.

Your soil is most likely to be contaminated with lead if you live next to a very busy, high traffic road that has existed for more than 40 years. Lead in exhaust from cars when leaded gasoline was still in use will have contaminated the soil.

Your soil is also more likely to be contaminated if you live in an older home (50+ years) that is painted. Lead paint may have chipped off your home and landed in the soil directly next to the house.

In other words, if you live in a brick house or in a newer house on a quiet street it’s highly unlikely that you have elevated lead in your soil. But if you live in an older home or near a busy street, your soil may have high lead."

https://www.soils.org/about-soils/contaminants/lead/#:~:text=Lead in exhaust from cars,directly next to the house.

 

 

[0 kids n not countin]

I guess I missed something, where the kids tested for the level of lead in their systems?

[rebeccawriter01]

28 minutes ago, 0 kids n not countin said:

I guess I missed something, where the kids tested for the level of lead in their systems?

Apparently during his last well baby visit they did blood work and his lead level came back slightly elevated. They sent them to a children's hospital for a more accurate test. Carlin thought he was being tested again as a follow up. However, she misunderstood and this latest appointment was another well baby appointment and they will be testing him again later. 

It's a pretty standard test for 1 year olds and even 2 year olds.

[GreenBeans]

2 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

It's a pretty standard test for 1 year olds and even 2 year olds.

Really? I’ve never heard of that here (Germany) and my son has never had any bloodworks done (except right after birth even they were worried about sepsis), but it’s certainly not part of any standard well-being check ups.

But then I’ve only heard of lead poisoning as really rare cases due to very old plumbing lines in old houses here (the public sewage system has no more lead). I’ve never heard of lead paint as an issue. Maybe it’s just not that common here?

[medimus]

52 minutes ago, GreenBeans said:

Really? I’ve never heard of that here (Germany) and my son has never had any bloodworks done (except right after birth even they were worried about sepsis), but it’s certainly not part of any standard well-being check ups.

But then I’ve only heard of lead poisoning as really rare cases due to very old plumbing lines in old houses here (the public sewage system has no more lead). I’ve never heard of lead paint as an issue. Maybe it’s just not that common here?

Same in the three countries (Belgium, UK, Ireland) I have worked in (doctor), I've never tested a child for lead, or heard of testing a child for lead, it's really rare. I wonder if it's a combination of most houses being brick and stronger/tighter regulations of allsorts of things.

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, GreenBeans said:

I’ve never heard of lead paint as an issue. Maybe it’s just not that common here?

Lead in paint was forbidden in Europe many years ago.

[Mama Mia]

That soil link is really interesting. My area came back higher than I would like, but not horrible. I noticed lots of clusters of both goof and bad levels. I wonder if that is due to specific industries? Age of buildings? Maybe areas that have been built up longer have higher levels? Or types of building/plumbing materials used ? 
In a previous job I had to do lead paint housing inspections - very basic- just to identify potential problems needing a closer look. In addition to just basic age of housing we noted any peeling paint, outside cracked paint on sills, things like that. IIRC we were required to do a visual inspection and give a brochure detailing lead paint dangers to any family with kids under age 6. This was a federal requirement for subsidized housing.  If we noted potential hazards there was a next level to address them. If the landlord couldn’t / wouldn’t ( and it can get expensive) the government would not help fund payments. 

[gobucks]

American Academy of Pediatrics and the Center for Disease Control both have lead screening recommendations. It is standard here in the US.

[GuineaPigCourtship]

I'm in CT in the northeastern part of the USA.  Lead testing at our 1 year and 2 year appointments was standard per our pediatrician.  Our house was built in the 50s but has had the walls redone and painted many, many times since it used to be a rental.

[Expectopatronus]

57 minutes ago, GuineaPigCourtship said:

I'm in CT in the northeastern part of the USA.  Lead testing at our 1 year and 2 year appointments was standard per our pediatrician.  Our house was built in the 50s but has had the walls redone and painted many, many times since it used to be a rental.

I’m in Canadian prairies and my girl wasn’t tested for lead. I’ve actually never heard of kids being tested unless they are symptomatic. 

[AussieKrissy]

Australia doesn't do lead testing either (well not that I have ever heard off)

My tin foil hat persona is giggling away at possible x file scenarios as to why this test is being run in the USA.....lol

[Keys]

It’s not commonly done in Canada either (neither is the hemoglobin check) - we only do blood work for babes and kids here if there is a specific concern. Some of the resources I used for studying were American, so I always found it interesting to see the lead test there.

 

Editing to add the Canadian Pediatric Society statement on it… it’s an interesting read, if interested   https://cps.ca/en/documents/position/lead-toxicity

Edited July 25, 2023 by Keys

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

I've not encountered any reasoning for why USA would be different from elsewhere in my readings so far.

But to hazard some guesses and not tin foil hat:

1. I think more houses in the USA are not brick/stone/similar material. Even brick houses get painted here too sometimes. There's several in my neighborhood that were painted long ago. Before 1978 paint had lead in it. So any house before 1978 likely had lead paint indoor and out. When it's sanded it releases lead and children get on hands and put in their mouths. Also brick houses have wooden painted shutters and trim. And my house has wood and brick mixed.

2. USA is vast. But we tend to take a threat in one area as a threat to all. So I would suspect there was a problem in specific instances or areas and as a whole USA is now reactive on the idea of lead. 

3. USA also has a problem with corruption and  rampant capitalism. Meaning profit baby profit. We allow things that should be regulated to not be regulated because CAPITALISM! The ECONOMY! (the "ECONOMY!! OH NO!" means rich people losing money). Corporations can and do get away with all sorts of things because they buy off politicians at all levels. Here we do not have regulations on "lobbying" (i.e. bribes) the way I believe that other western countries do. Our supreme court even ruled that corporations have the same rights as people. If you are not in USA you may not know about a whole city being poisoned by lead pipes just a few years ago. Big outrage. But that's still unresolved and there are many children with brain damage as a result. However, that's a poor area - so ya know....capitalism doesn't care.

4. What I've read about the soil talked about areas being near highways and busy roads having more contamination from the gasoline that was used that contained lead. The lead came out in the exhaust and settled around the roads. Considering that USA is a much bigger car/drive everywhere sort of place, this level of contamination is likely more than Europe

 

Side bar I have a former colleague who was working for the local social services in another town from me to develop lead awareness programs. We can buy lead testing kits at the builder's stores so we can test before we sand stuff. I think the concern is usually directed at children and less so the adults because it causes damage to the brain development.

chart from georgia tech

Edited July 25, 2023 by WatchingTheTireFireBurn

[backyard sylph]

On 7/24/2023 at 2:33 AM, Melissa1977 said:

Lead in paint was forbidden in Europe many years ago.

In the US it was banned in 1978, which was 45 years ago. And starting in 1975, all new cars used unleaded fuel, but it was still available for boats and small aircraft until the mid-90s. I remember when we got a 1976 car and Mom started using the new fuel pumps. People with old cars could still get leaded gas for awhile, but then they had to convert to keep them at some point. 

As someone pointed out, there could still be lead in soil in many places, and it's because of the fuel; it stays in there for decades. And this is a really, really big place with a huge variety of circumstances. And a lot of merch from China. 

[clueliss]

On 7/23/2023 at 5:24 PM, marmalade said:

Their house is a fairly new build. Definitely not anywhere close to having lead paint. My money is on the cheap Chinese toys. 

This house is new.  The place they lived before is the same apartment that Trace and Lydia.live.in now and it's older.

[browngrl]

On 7/23/2023 at 5:31 PM, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

next likely choice is toys from china.

 

The CBC (Canadian news network) did a investigation into products from places like Shein and other similar retailers and they found high levels of all sorts of toxins like lead. Carlin is always shilling "fast fashion" and I would not be surprised if the lead came from one of those sources. Alternatively, they have done lots of renovations on their house and business. When my sister renovated her house she was shocked to find asbestos (had to get a special company to remove things safely). I would not be surprised if one of the Renos uncovered some lead laced building supplies. 

 

[rebeccawriter01]

Did a bit of research and asked a pediatrician friend. 

In the US, the test is required for all children who are on Medicaid. Carlin's kids aren't that we know of, but just for the sake of the argument about why is it required. Children on Medicaid can be on it for financial reasons and are more likely to live in housing where there is an issue.

The CDC recommends it for children in areas that have high rates. Anderson County does have a high rate in certain portions. Children in certain older schools are testing higher than others. 

Since their house is newer, I suspect that is not the cause. 

It can come from old locations where lead paint was used and even painted over. Removal of the old paint can put dust containing lead in the air. Given that their old duplex wasn't home for him for very long (a month?), I'm thinking no there too.

Old pipes can be an issue - unless he's in places like that a lot, probably not the issue.

Toys and or plates that are painted with lead paint or glaze could and probably are the culprit. 

I would suspect that it was an issue when he was at Carlin's parents' home (the old portion not the add on) or even Michaela's house that is older, but we don't know of any of the other kids having similar test issues. Could possibly come from being around the renovations at Zach and Whitney's home but again Jaydon and the other kids would be subject too.

If I was Carlin, I would have Layla tested or retested too to see if she was impacted.

[Longhairedheathen]

Oh, my time to sadly shine! Native Texan here having grown up around elevated lead levels. 

I can only really speak on Texas but 90% of it comes from the water infrastructure having lead pipes. Texas government (and I pretty sure Tennessee gov) made it a county issue and it is very expansive to replace these pipes. It's why you can have a new build but still have high levels of lead due to the pipes from the county or city.  Also some plumbers use lead to solder the cooper joints. I need to point out that most of Texas Congress have stakes in water filter companies...and how they got their seats were campaigning to get their pipes in their counties fixed. 

Here is a link that shows you just how bad some of the county's are:  are https://tabexternal.dshs.texas.gov/t/BLS/views/BloodLeadTestingandElevatedBloodLeadLevelsinTexasChildren2013-2019/Story?%3Aiid=1&%3AisGuestRedirectFromVizportal=y&%3Aembed=y

 

There are sites like TapSafe that can help people navigate seeing if their drinking water have violations. Looking at their city, it looks like they have a violation from the safe drinking water act so even if they aren't drinking it. Just showering or watering their garden, it can cause their levels to rise. 

https://www.tapsafe.org/is-lake-city-tn-tap-water-safe-to-drink/

 

GOOD NEWS - It can be reversed and the levels of lead can be reduced from the body and they will educated on how to lower them. 

BAD NEWS - They will support (mainly) Republican politicians that support not fixing the water infrastructure in these rural towns. 

 

 

[Keys]

9 hours ago, browngrl said:

The CBC (Canadian news network) did a investigation into products from places like Shein and other similar retailers and they found high levels of all sorts of toxins like lead. Carlin is always shilling "fast fashion" and I would not be surprised if the lead came from one of those sources. Alternatively, they have done lots of renovations on their house and business. When my sister renovated her house she was shocked to find asbestos (had to get a special company to remove things safely). I would not be surprised if one of the Renos uncovered some lead laced building supplies. 

 

Before this conversation, the thought about contaminants in the clothing from China crossed my mind, too. They’re always at the boutique unboxing items and packing them, and I’d wondered if a cause like that could be contributing to Carlin’s health issues. I have seen patients with very bad skin reactions from working in retail. Some choose to wear gloves to handle all the packaging and merchandise. Many clothes are also sprayed with flame retardant and may contain other chemicals. I went down a big rabbit hole reading about organic baby clothing when our babe was born. The TLDR is that there’s actually legit benefits (mainly the materials being ethically sourced and made, and also the health considerations of the materials used to make the clothing). But, most of the irritating/potentially damaging chemicals reduce significantly after a few washes (but then enter the water system/soil… another topic). 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Keys

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

I would want my other child tested for sure. One would hope that if his levels are still elevated at the follow up, then they would get Layla tested. And hopefully start to look around to see what may have caused it.

I think the lead pipe situation can vary greatly by area. I was seeing some numbers for some places that only 12% of the pipes hadn't been converted. Also of note, that area they live in has only recently grown - so I would imagine a lot of the pipes are relatively new. As compared with an older city like Boston or Nashville that's probably got many areas with the original pipes. 

I also have a sneaking suspicion they don't actually drink that much water at home. Not sure how that would factor in, but they're seldom home and when they are they often eat out.  So I imagine they have less of a concentrated effect from water vs says toys/furniture/other items they carry from place to place. Maybe?

[Keys]

Side note - I was reading about the whole debacle of Kaylee Rodrigues delivering prematurely and Jill giving her plexus to drink to help with her breast milk supply. Among other things in that stuff that aren’t safe in pregnancy, breastfeeding, and honestly probably just your health in general, plexus states that it may contain lead. But I don’t think we’ve ever seen the Bates drinking it, thankfully 

[Longhairedheathen]

16 hours ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

I would want my other child tested for sure. One would hope that if his levels are still elevated at the follow up, then they would get Layla tested. And hopefully start to look around to see what may have caused it.

I think the lead pipe situation can vary greatly by area. I was seeing some numbers for some places that only 12% of the pipes hadn't been converted. Also of note, that area they live in has only recently grown - so I would imagine a lot of the pipes are relatively new. As compared with an older city like Boston or Nashville that's probably got many areas with the original pipes. 

I also have a sneaking suspicion they don't actually drink that much water at home. Not sure how that would factor in, but they're seldom home and when they are they often eat out.  So I imagine they have less of a concentrated effect from water vs says toys/furniture/other items they carry from place to place. Maybe?

Actually older affluents area of Boston and Nashville has mostly cast iron and steel (dipped in zinc that may have had lead and others) , poorer areas had wood and lead pipe. You can trace red line base on the pipe material. Most of these water infrastructures have been up dated so the focus is on the housing pipes. 

These smaller towns that are having growth, are going to have a water infrastructure put in the 1900-1960 but because of lobbyist, it easier to put the the blame on home owners. 

[watchdog]

On 5/17/2023 at 10:41 AM, HereticHick said:

As I like to say...anyone who is fool enough to raise their daughters to be "divas" and "princesses" deserve what is coming to them. : )

This is one of the most true-to-life observations I've heard in a long time!  Nailed it!  Sadly, those little divas and princesses often grow up to be insufferable big divas and princesses.

I saw the trailer for the new "Barbie" movie & the target audience seems to be adolescent girls, the "diva" and "princess" types.  Now, I wouldn't be caught dead walking into a theater to see it, and I wouldn't pay to see it, but if it's ever streamed online it looks like something I might enjoy hate-watching at home, that is unless I was struck blind 5 minutes in by all the PINK!

Edited July 26, 2023 by watchdog