Seewalds 48: Homophobia Now Mixed With Hypocrisy

[SassyPants]

8 minutes ago, sndral said:

Maybe I should have left the ‘master’ part out 😂. I don’t follow Jessa closely enough to speculate about narcissistic traits (Jill Rod, OTH - hell yeah she’s textbook IMO) most of these fundy 20/30 yr. olds making a buck from ‘influencing’ seem really self absorbed to me & very shallow/superficial. Does Jessa ever post about her acts of charity or generously towards others which would be in line w/ the role of a SAH conservative pastor’s wife, or is it all about her/her family?

Nah… Jessa is all about shilling for certain businesses (the CHM, the co-op that sells second hand baby and children’s items, some beauty items). But I don’t really think the Christian beliefs that they follow focus much on works of service or mercy. The RCC is very focused on living the word of God through one’s actions, especially towards others, but Protestant churches usually shy away from that component. 

13 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Do you think Jessa is a narcissist?

Personally, I think Jim Bob is but I don’t think Jessa is.

Yes, I see narcissistic tendencies in Jessa. She’s always given off the vibes of knowing better than everyone else, being the prettiest and most confident of the group. I think Jessa is very much like JB. 

[Queen Of Hearts]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

What a waste of a video. But she’s getting views 🙄

I didn't find this video a complete waste. Jess did say something interesting in that she and Ben are very willing to limit the number of children they have and they prefer quality (where it pertains to being able to lead their kids to walk with the Lord) vs quality.

She said she isn't against birth control, but not the kind that is abortive.  She also said after her first two kids they purposely spaced them.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

9 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

I didn't find this video a complete waste. Jess did say something interesting in that she and Ben are very willing to limit the number of children they have and they prefer quality (where it pertains to being able to lead their kids to walk with the Lord) vs quality.

She said she isn't against birth control, but not the kind that is abortive.  She also said after her first two kids they purposely spaced them.

 

Which is unsurprising to me as well. Now that Jill and Jinger have said they are ok with birth control, she now is open about it. Even though Jessa has been using some sort of birth control for years. Isn’t Henry like 6? Jill and Jinger blew the door open and Jessa is just walking through. I’m not blaming Jessa for just walking through a door that was beat down before her. I just think she would never have a conversation with her sisters empathizing how hard it must’ve been for them and she’s sorry they went through that. I think she’s just enjoying the fact that she didn’t have to do the work of busting the door down. Yet she’s the spunky one. Huh. 

[marmalade]

Jessa is only the "spunky" one when amongst like minded people. I always go back to her engagement. During Ben's scavenger hunt, there was a task in a town square where Jessa was supposed to gather a dozen roses from randos (I suppose approached by production). She chickened out, and Jinger ended up gathering the flowers.

[Pecansforeveryone]

So this is the 3rd daughter that admits to using birth control? The otherwise most Duggar PR savy daughter? 🤔 I would like to see Michelle and JB's face for Jessa's admission. Their die hard Quiverful stance doesn't make any allowances for "spacing" your children, even if one is still hoping for a very big family. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, Pecansforeveryone said:

So this is the 3rd daughter that admits to using birth control? The otherwise most Duggar PR savy daughter? 🤔 I would like to see Michelle and JB's face for Jessa's admission. Their die hard Quiverful stance doesn't make any allowances for "spacing" your children, even if one is still hoping for a very big family. 

They might not be as upset since she said she wouldn’t use birth control pills. We know JB and Michelle spread misinformation that they cause abortions. 

[imokit]

Some fundies are ok with using breast feeding to try and limit family size.  I think ZsuZsu used to say that if you breast properly children would be at least 18m apart and that was a good thing.

Even in quiverful natural spacing is often allowed.  Breast feeding, timing sex to make it less likely.  The point being that it makes it easy for good to give you a baby he desperately wants you to have.  You're open to what the lord gives you and aren't killing babies or making the womb hostile.

[Cam]

21 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Prediction: she will barely answer any of these questions. She will say she’s keeping the gender a secret. She won’t give an exact due date. She won’t give any concrete answers on names. And she will say she is having a hospital birth due to her history of bleeding heavily after birth. 
 

Someone else can watch and report back if I’m correct. Jessa is very predictable. She’s wearing a tank top and pants because her sisters bared the brunt of JB’s anger. They paved the way for her and I bet she’s never even acknowledged it with them. 

You don’t post a photo like this unless you think you look pretty good. And really, she does. A 31 year old mom of four, big pregnant with the fifth. I agree with those who say she allows her sisters to blaze any new trail and she then glides on through unscathed. I know people like this in my life who ride on the coattails of others and I loathe it. I don’t think Jessa has any new ideas of her own or much original creativity. The show(s) kept her propped up so she came across as a confident go-getter, but once the cameras went away, she turned back into her truer self..

Edited December 9, 2023 by Cam

[EmiSue]

8 minutes ago, Cam said:

You don’t post a photo like this unless you think you look pretty good. And really, she does. A 31 year old mom of four, big pregnant with the fifth. I agree with those who say she allows her sisters to blaze any new trail and she then glides on through unscathed. I know people like this in my life who ride on the coattails of others and I loathe it. I don’t think Jessa has any new ideas of her own or much original creativity. The show(s) kept her propped up so she came across as a confident go-getter, but once the cameras went away, she turned back into her truer self..

She's also done the least amount of work to deal with her sa trauma. I don't say this as a criticism but just as fact. Jill and Jinger have had varying degrees of therapy and started to disentangle themselves from their parents' beliefs. Even Joy has at least reconsidered some things after Annabell and Josh's trial. Jessa seems to have just shoved it all down but that doesn't work forever.

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, EmiSue said:

She's also done the least amount of work to deal with her sa trauma. I don't say this as a criticism but just as fact. Jill and Jinger have had varying degrees of therapy and started to disentangle themselves from their parents' beliefs. Even Joy has at least reconsidered some things after Annabell and Josh's trial. Jessa seems to have just shoved it all down but that doesn't work forever.

Which is just so sad. Because I’m afraid that trauma may come roaring back out of nowhere one day. You often can’t predict this kind of thing. It could be tomorrow or 10 years from now. I do wish she would see a licensed therapist. But that’s probably unlikely. 

[Mama Mia]

11 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

So this is the 3rd daughter that admits to using birth control? The otherwise most Duggar PR savy daughter? 🤔 I would like to see Michelle and JB's face for Jessa's admission. Their die hard Quiverful stance doesn't make any allowances for "spacing" your children, even if one is still hoping for a very big family. 

4th. All the married daughters have said they space/plan their children. I think Jill and Jessa are the only ones who have gone into detail in response to direct questions. Both gave the same basic answer - that they won’t use anything that they think could possibly cause a miscarriage/ prevent implantation after fertilization. So no IUD or pill. But barrier methods are implied to be fine, as well as more natural fertility control and - presumably- although it wasn’t stated— eventual vasectomy or tubal ligation. Jessa used language around the Bible stating children are a blessing from God - BUT- you need to be able to handle / care for / manage the blessings you receive. 
I’m not sure but I think Jinger and Joy have both been more vague on types of family planning used, but have said things like “ we decided to wait a year before having a baby” or “ we decided it was time to try again for a baby” . And neither  of them have given any indication they were going to have unlimited babies. In her video Jessa said she didn’t know her ultimate number, and said she would never decide when she was currently very pregnant or when she had a newborn - because the answer would be that this was definitely the last.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think it’s common for fundies to use some sort of birth control and the Duggars and Bateses were one of the few fundies who seemed to constantly be trying for a baby. I think many just abstain. I think there are plenty of fundie men who are stressed out about money and know a baby every year just isn’t possible. Men are supposed to be the ones who initiate sex. If they don’t, then sex probably doesn’t happen. Chris Maxwell comes to mind. When his wife was going through chemo, I bet he just abstained. He’s such a rigid person that I think he could do that. That way he isn’t preventing. He’s just abstinent again like he was for many years prior to marriage. I also think many fundies lie to themselves. I think they say to themselves when they use condoms, “condoms aren’t 100% effective. Therefore if god wants us to have a baby, we will be part of the 10% that get pregnant while using condoms.” Mental gymnastics amongst fundies is Olympic level. 

[Giraffe]

What a statement against JB & Michelle QF life that all of their "girls" refuse to follow in their footsteps. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Giraffe

[Jackie3]

10 hours ago, EmiSue said:

She's also done the least amount of work to deal with her sa trauma. I don't say this as a criticism but just as fact. Jill and Jinger have had varying degrees of therapy and started to disentangle themselves from their parents' beliefs. Even Joy has at least reconsidered some things after Annabell and Josh's trial. Jessa seems to have just shoved it all down but that doesn't work forever.

It's certainly possible she's had therapy and just not revealed it publically. She might also have read book or online resources. We really don't know how much work she's done.

 

8 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think it’s common for fundies to use some sort of birth control and the Duggars and Bateses were one of the few fundies who seemed to constantly be trying for a baby. I think many just abstain. I think there are plenty of fundie men who are stressed out about money and know a baby every year just isn’t possible. Men are supposed to be the ones who initiate sex. If they don’t, then sex probably doesn’t happen. Chris Maxwell comes to mind. When his wife was going through chemo, I bet he just abstained. He’s such a rigid person that I think he could do that. That way he isn’t preventing. He’s just abstinent again like he was for many years prior to marriage. I also think many fundies lie to themselves. I think they say to themselves when they use condoms, “condoms aren’t 100% effective. Therefore if god wants us to have a baby, we will be part of the 10% that get pregnant while using condoms.” Mental gymnastics amongst fundies is Olympic level. 

I'm always amazed at the doublethink. God is all-powerful, yet defeated by a birth control pill. God should be able to give them a baby if they are using a condom, diagphram and the pill! How outrageous that they think they can control what God can do.

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 12/8/2023 at 2:18 PM, SassyPants said:

Yes, I see narcissistic tendencies in Jessa. She’s always given off the vibes of knowing better than everyone else, being the prettiest and most confident of the group. I think Jessa is very much like JB. 

I’ll make sure to watch carefully in the future.
 

On 12/8/2023 at 3:26 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Which is unsurprising to me as well. Now that Jill and Jinger have said they are ok with birth control, she now is open about it. Even though Jessa has been using some sort of birth control for years. Isn’t Henry like 6? Jill and Jinger blew the door open and Jessa is just walking through. I’m not blaming Jessa for just walking through a door that was beat down before her. I just think she would never have a conversation with her sisters empathizing how hard it must’ve been for them and she’s sorry they went through that. I think she’s just enjoying the fact that she didn’t have to do the work of busting the door down. Yet she’s the spunky one. Huh. 

No, it isn’t Jessa’s fault that she can walk the path her sisters cleared. It is her parents fault for obscuring the path in the first place and punishing only the trailblazers.

 

13 hours ago, EmiSue said:

She's also done the least amount of work to deal with her sa trauma. I don't say this as a criticism but just as fact. Jill and Jinger have had varying degrees of therapy and started to disentangle themselves from their parents' beliefs. Even Joy has at least reconsidered some things after Annabell and Josh's trial. Jessa seems to have just shoved it all down but that doesn't work forever.

While I agree Jessa has some work to do, I can’t fault her for not doing it. Doing the work requires maturity, time, and financial resources. Jessa married young to an extremely young man and immediately started having children. I doubt a trauma therapist or EMDR is covered by the Jesus insurance she advertises. She may simply not be in a place to do said work.

 

13 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Which is just so sad. Because I’m afraid that trauma may come roaring back out of nowhere one day. You often can’t predict this kind of thing. It could be tomorrow or 10 years from now. I do wish she would see a licensed therapist. But that’s probably unlikely. 

I hope she does too. My issues became impossible to ignore several years ago and I’ve been in therapy ever since. It’s helped up to a point, but I’m not done yet.
 

11 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

4th. All the married daughters have said they space/plan their children. I think Jill and Jessa are the only ones who have gone into detail in response to direct questions. Both gave the same basic answer - that they won’t use anything that they think could possibly cause a miscarriage/ prevent implantation after fertilization. So no IUD or pill. But barrier methods are implied to be fine, as well as more natural fertility control and - presumably- although it wasn’t stated— eventual vasectomy or tubal ligation. Jessa used language around the Bible stating children are a blessing from God - BUT- you need to be able to handle / care for / manage the blessings you receive. 
I’m not sure but I think Jinger and Joy have both been more vague on types of family planning used, but have said things like “ we decided to wait a year before having a baby” or “ we decided it was time to try again for a baby” . And neither  of them have given any indication they were going to have unlimited babies. In her video Jessa said she didn’t know her ultimate number, and said she would never decide when she was currently very pregnant or when she had a newborn - because the answer would be that this was definitely the last.

It’s pretty damning that 3/4 sister moms are limiting their family size and the 4th is simply staying single. 

[Kiki03910]

Jessa is by far the most boring and predictable of the oldest girls. Spunky my ass.

1 minute ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I’ll make sure to watch carefully in the future.
 

No, it isn’t Jessa’s fault that she can walk the path her sisters cleared. It is her parents fault for obscuring the path in the first place and punishing only the trailblazers.

 

While I agree Jessa has some work to do, I can’t fault her for not doing it. Doing the work requires maturity, time, and financial resources. Jessa married young to an extremely young man and immediately started having children. I doubt a trauma therapist or EMDR is covered by the Jesus insurance she advertises. She may simply not be in a place to do said work.

 

I hope she does too. My issues became impossible to ignore several years ago and I’ve been in therapy ever since. It’s helped up to a point, but I’m not done yet.
 

It’s pretty damning that 3/4 sister moms are limiting their family size and the 4th is simply staying single. 

Best to you, FSHG. You got this.

[Mama Mia]

7 hours ago, Giraffe said:

What a statement against JB & Michelle QF life that all of their "girls" refuse to follow in their footsteps. 

It will be interesting to see what happens with the younger girls. Hopefully they go off and live whatever version of life suits them - but if they follow the basic path of most of their big sisters, marry young and are more or less SAHM / work-from-home — will they also limit their family size, or have a ton of kids and take however many babies their bodies can produce? 

Their experiences are SO different than what the oldest girls went through. All the older girls seem to very much love their mom and think she is patient and kind and hard-working (regardless of what we think) Will the youngest girls take that model of motherhood and try to replicate it with a zillion kids? Will having had $$$ and less overt abuse and tons of space make them think a mega family is doable and desirable?  Or will they look at their sister-moms and think that it’s ok to plan the number and timing of their  babies? Will having mostly lost their sister moms at a young age make them not want to have a dozen + kids who have to care for each other. Or having grown up with relatively more personal space  and attention will they want a big but not giant family? 

[ifosterkittens]

7 hours ago, Giraffe said:

What a statement against JB & Michelle QF life that all of their "girls" refuse to follow in their footsteps. 

I think it is a statement that their daughters who were raised in the QF lifestyle and chose not to live it themselves. They know the cost- financial, time, emotional etc. Same with the Bates daughters, only Tori seems to be following in her mom's footsteps. Joe and Kendra Duggar may go the QF route, or that might hold true for the first several or so kids, and then may change. I'll be interested to follow the Rodrigues children, especially the daughters. 

[marmalade]

1 hour ago, ifosterkittens said:

I think it is a statement that their daughters who were raised in the QF lifestyle and chose not to live it themselves. They know the cost- financial, time, emotional etc. Same with the Bates daughters, only Tori seems to be following in her mom's footsteps. Joe and Kendra Duggar may go the QF route, or that might hold true for the first several or so kids, and then may change. I'll be interested to follow the Rodrigues children, especially the daughters. 

It appears that the young women from the cult that married Duggar boys are way more invested in quiverfull than the actual Duggar daughters. Abbie excepted, even though she was also raised in it. 

[Cam]

13 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

I'm always amazed at the doublethink. God is all-powerful, yet defeated by a birth control pill. God should be able to give them a baby if they are using a condom, diagphram and the pill! How outrageous that they think they can control what God can do.

This is such a profound statement, I’ve never looked at it this way before but it makes complete sense to me.

 

7 hours ago, marmalade said:

It appears that the young women from the cult that married Duggar boys are way more invested in quiverfull than the actual Duggar daughters. Abbie excepted, even though she was also raised in it. 

The boys have an opportunity to select a wife who is willing to go all-out quiverful if that’s what they’re looking for. 
 

The thing with the younger Duggar daughters, they benefit from having various role models in their older sisters. Jinger uses birth control and hasn’t been smote by God? Younger sisters might think that’s the way to go. I hope they all read Jill’s book at some point for the insights. Heck, even Jana remaining single shows them that’s an option, too. 

[Giraffe]

12 hours ago, marmalade said:

It appears that the young women from the cult that married Duggar boys are way more invested in quiverfull than the actual Duggar daughters. Abbie excepted, even though she was also raised in it. 

And we'll never know if she's made the exception because of a change in beliefs or a desperation to not live with decades of HG. (I know she's also working outside the home but to me that still doesn't necessarily mean their fundamental beliefs have progressed)

Edited December 10, 2023 by Giraffe

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 12/9/2023 at 9:46 PM, Kiki03910 said:

Jessa is by far the most boring and predictable of the oldest girls. Spunky my ass.

Best to you, FSHG. You got this.

Jessa isn’t spunky so much as sassy at times. The two can overlap but not necessarily so.

And thank you. I won’t stop until I have the life I want. 

[xenobia]

Jessa had the baby. 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by xenobia

[JDuggs]

It’s a boy. 9 lbs 14 oz - her biggest baby. Some screenshots from her video. She looks like hell in the first one and it’s days before the birth. Everyone is wearing jackets in the delivery room. Weirdest thing. She started labor in the morning of 12/18 and he was born after midnight, in the very middle of the night/early morning 12/19.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[marmalade]

I'm still thinking they work Tozer into this baby's name.