Gilead Is Real: The War On Abortion And Women's Rights 2

[Audrey2]

2 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Sad, but true:

 

I can see this happening (after the last administration there is no horrible idea that I think they won't try), and it terrifies me. I live in the Northwest and no matter how I go, I'm stuck with going through Idaho to get to Glacier National Park, unless I make it a much longer trip and go through Canada. I fell in love with Glacier last year and have decided I need three more trips to really feel like I've seen it.

I do think going through Idaho would be a no gas and no food trip, so I won't give them any money,  and hope they don't have someone at the border checking women traveling alone. It also stinks because I ate it Culver's for the first time in Twin Falls and have decided it's now a must eat restaurant.

[Coconut Flan]

30% of the people are trying to control the other 70%.  Sadly the current structure is set up to let them get away with it.  

[Ozlsn]

35 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

30% of the people are trying to control the other 70%.  Sadly the current structure is set up to let them get away with it.  

Given when the structure was set up that sounds about right.

I sincerely hope there is enough movement to swing the states but not holding my breath.

[Ozlsn]

11 hours ago, cupcake said:

Are conservatives really claiming this? If so, this is insanity. A nonviable fetus that will not survive (although tragic for the mother and child) should not be the cause of a murder prosecution or investigation.

The 'heartbeat' laws also say (as I understand it) that treatment for ectopic pregnancies or miscarriage cannot begin while the foetus has a heartbeat still. So even when there is no hope of viability they have to wait until it essentially has become an emergency, which increases the risk to the mother significantly. 

This sums it up well:

Spoiler

 

As for the number of "don't these women understand how contraception works?" responses on twitter... I am so ready to slap people it's not funny.

[Coconut Flan]

The unintended consequences will begin almost immediately.  How long until it hits people who can and will do something about it, we'll have to see.  There are too many idiots around and in charge at the moment.

[formergothardite]

24 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

The unintended consequences will begin almost immediately.  How long until it hits people who can and will do something about it, we'll have to see.  There are too many idiots around and in charge at the moment.

I think it is going to take white suburban married Christian women dying for anything meaningful to happen in the anti choice movement. One of my relatives who is cheering has had an ectopic pregnancy and she didn’t hesitate for one second to seek medical treatment. I think there is a big disconnect between what these anti choice people think is going to happen and what will happen. They really don’t think it is going to impact them at all, when in reality it most certainly will touch their lives in some way. I expect stories of women dying are going to start happening pretty fast. 

[GreyhoundFan]

[NotQuiteMotY]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

I think it is going to take white suburban married Christian women dying for anything meaningful to happen in the anti choice movement. One of my relatives who is cheering has had an ectopic pregnancy and she didn’t hesitate for one second to seek medical treatment. I think there is a big disconnect between what these anti choice people think is going to happen and what will happen. They really don’t think it is going to impact them at all, when in reality it most certainly will touch their lives in some way. I expect stories of women dying are going to start happening pretty fast. 

One relative of mine is cheering. I suspect she doesn't consider what would have happened if her case of eclampsia had happened in the second trimester instead of the third, and she's pretty quick to insist that treatment for an ectopic pregnancy isn't an abortion. Apparently citing that women die of preventable causes in places with abortion bans is also a "false narrative". (I know, probably wasting my time, but I was arguing for the people on the sidelines who may still be convinced.)

I expect the first woman to die within the next week. It may have already happened, given how fast things can go wrong in pregnancy, but we haven't heard about it yet. I don't think I'm being macabre or pessimistic.

[CrazyMumma]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

I think it is going to take white suburban married Christian women dying for anything meaningful to happen in the anti choice movement. One of my relatives who is cheering has had an ectopic pregnancy and she didn’t hesitate for one second to seek medical treatment. I think there is a big disconnect between what these anti choice people think is going to happen and what will happen. They really don’t think it is going to impact them at all, when in reality it most certainly will touch their lives in some way. I expect stories of women dying are going to start happening pretty fast. 

I'm what you would consider a white suburban Christian mum and I'm horrified. I can see how this is going to impact everyone and imo its a travesty of justice and anti the American constitution. Just because i would never choose to have an abortion doesn't mean this law wouldn't impact my life personally.  This law turns women into incubators and second class people.

[Evil Feminist]

2 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

The 'heartbeat' laws also say (as I understand it) that treatment for ectopic pregnancies or miscarriage cannot begin while the foetus has a heartbeat still. So even when there is no hope of viability they have to wait until it essentially has become an emergency, which increases the risk to the mother significantly. 

This sums it up well:

  Hide contents

 

As for the number of "don't these women understand how contraception works?" responses on twitter... I am so ready to slap people it's not funny.

I've got one friend who would refuse to remove an ectopic pregnancy even if she was bleeding out because she didn't want to risk ending a "heartbeat" 

Another is claiming that care foe a miscarriage or treatment for an ectopic pregnancy is NOT the same as an abortion. 

There's no getting anywhere with these people.

[Ozlsn]

6 minutes ago, NotQuiteMotY said:

. I suspect she doesn't consider what would have happened if her case of eclampsia had happened in the second trimester instead of the third

Past ~22 weeks they would have delivered the baby, taken them to NICU and resuscitated them. The odds are still pretty bad for very pre-term babies, but they would probably try - can parents now opt for palliative care only for very early gestations with these new laws? I don't know.

Pre ~22 weeks... I honestly don't know. Delivery will kill the foetus, but the likelihood of the mother dying or being permanently impaired if they don't is pretty high. I volunteered with a group which focused on hypertensive disorders of pregnancy, and I met so many women who were lucky- there really isn't a better way of putting it - to survive. Some had life long disabilities caused by the eclampsia. Women will die if they have to wait for delivery. 

I feel like these laws have been drafted by people who think every pregnancy runs like a commercial, and every baby is born term and looks like a Gerbers baby. Roughly 1 in 20 women develop pre-eclampsia, 1 in 250 develop HELLP Syndrome, I think it's 1 in ~1000 develop eclampsia (higher if pre-eclampsia isn't recognised and treated). 

These are not small numbers in a population sense.

 

[Anna Bolinas]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I think it is going to take white suburban married Christian women dying for anything meaningful to happen in the anti choice movement.

A bunch of little white suburban kids got shot to death in their little white suburban school, and no one in the gun lobby cared. A white woman dying won’t make a difference to them. Maybe if one pro-forced birther has a friend or relative who dies, they may change their mind as an individual, but for the wider group, I don’t think their minds will be changed if the “right” kind of woman dies. The hatred and dehumanization of women, even amongst other women, runs too deep in this society. 

[meep]

I'm running out of hope for this nation. We struggled through 4 years of tr*mp and people are still playing nice-y nice with the republicans. 

[Zebedee]

18 minutes ago, Anna Bolinas said:

The hatred and dehumanization of women, even amongst other women, runs too deep in this society. 

I hate to agree with this, but it really looks like democracy, POC, women, children, LGBTQ, are just collateral damage at this point for the right wing Christian and gun nut agenda. 

[molecule]

Today I sat with my adult daughter while she cried over the ruling. She has a medical condition that would make it very dangerous for her to be pregnant for the next couple years. It would be bad for her and even worse for the baby. She lives in a state that has just reverted to a horribly archaic law that is now in effect. Those Supreme court assholes made my baby girl cry.

And now I'm steeling myself to go to church tomorrow and hear one of the women express her happiness about the ruling during Joys & Concerns. I'm going to need a drink when I get home.

[adidas]

If you live in a state where abortion is banned, you might want to consider deleting your period tracking apps. I’m not sure how accurate this is, but it’s in our news:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/security/privacy-experts-recommend-deleting-period-tracking-apps-as-roe-v-wade-abortion-decision-overturned/news-story/eaa1f3e34a1b994adf64aeb34e45afa9

[GreyhoundFan]

11 minutes ago, adidas said:

If you live in a state where abortion is banned, you might want to consider deleting your period tracking apps. I’m not sure how accurate this is, but it’s in our news:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/security/privacy-experts-recommend-deleting-period-tracking-apps-as-roe-v-wade-abortion-decision-overturned/news-story/eaa1f3e34a1b994adf64aeb34e45afa9

According to this infographic from Reddit, it’s wise to delete, but there are alternatives. 
 

[Travlr98]

8 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

Of course Ducey is being an asshole:

 

Those idiots tried to break into the state capital. They got what they deserved. Hopefully they will move back to Commifornia. 

[Magenta]

'Commifornia' : Right wing people are simultaneously really into and super bad at portmanteaus.  It's quite the phenomenon.  

Edited June 26, 2022 by Magenta

[Seahorse Wrangler]

And every time people ask me why I didn't want to move to USA even though Mr Wrangler was promised a green card...I'm just going to point at this and the gun laws..

[FluffySnowball]

21 hours ago, Audrey2 said:

Well to them egg has met sperm so of course there's a baby. I'm waiting for them to get the idea of going after IVF clinics because after all egg has met sperm so of course there's a baby and they don't put all the babies inside the mother.

Many couples with fertility problems are worried about exactly that: it’s very likely that fertility treatments such as IVF will become more restricted and regulated because of this ruling. 

6 hours ago, adidas said:

If you live in a state where abortion is banned, you might want to consider deleting your period tracking apps. I’m not sure how accurate this is, but it’s in our news:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/security/privacy-experts-recommend-deleting-period-tracking-apps-as-roe-v-wade-abortion-decision-overturned/news-story/eaa1f3e34a1b994adf64aeb34e45afa9

How horrible it’s now come to this. I feel so sorry for the plight of women in the US who want an abortion or even just adequate reproductive healthcare. 

7 hours ago, Evil Feminist said:

I've got one friend who would refuse to remove an ectopic pregnancy even if she was bleeding out because she didn't want to risk ending a "heartbeat" 

Another is claiming that care foe a miscarriage or treatment for an ectopic pregnancy is NOT the same as an abortion. 

There's no getting anywhere with these people.

This might very well be true, though it’s easy to make such big claims without being in the situation. Who knows if your friend would not quickly change her mind once she’s about to actually face death. Maybe I’m wrong but I tend not to believe such “I’d willingly die without a second thought”-claims. 

[Smash!]

11 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

As for the number of "don't these women understand how contraception works?" responses on twitter... I am so ready to slap people it's not funny.

And the responsibility always relies on the woman. All the men who refuse to wear condoms get a pass. I don’t know why exactly.

[Destiny]

9 hours ago, Travlr98 said:

Those idiots tried to break into the state capital. They got what they deserved. Hopefully they will move back to Commifornia. 

Well, this statement tells me all I need to know about you on several levels. 

This thread is interesting: 

 

I know we all want to help, but there’s some solid points about working within a system for everyone’s protection. 

[NotQuiteMotY]

11 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

Past ~22 weeks they would have delivered the baby, taken them to NICU and resuscitated them. The odds are still pretty bad for very pre-term babies, but they would probably try - can parents now opt for palliative care only for very early gestations with these new laws? I don't know.

Pre ~22 weeks... I honestly don't know. Delivery will kill the foetus, but the likelihood of the mother dying or being permanently impaired if they don't is pretty high. I volunteered with a group which focused on hypertensive disorders of pregnancy, and I met so many women who were lucky- there really isn't a better way of putting it - to survive. Some had life long disabilities caused by the eclampsia. Women will die if they have to wait for delivery. 

I feel like these laws have been drafted by people who think every pregnancy runs like a commercial, and every baby is born term and looks like a Gerbers baby. Roughly 1 in 20 women develop pre-eclampsia, 1 in 250 develop HELLP Syndrome, I think it's 1 in ~1000 develop eclampsia (higher if pre-eclampsia isn't recognised and treated). 

These are not small numbers in a population sense.

 

That's a new and horrifying thought. If a woman's water breaks at 21 weeks and it's born alive when labor can't be stopped, will she get time to sit with the baby, give palliative care, and have its short life be peaceful and with her, or will it be spent with extreme measures to save it even though it's too early and her being interrogated as to what she did to cause it? 

Medical professionals would almost certainly choose the former, but we all know it's not medical professionals dictating these laws and requirements.

9 hours ago, molecule said:

Today I sat with my adult daughter while she cried over the ruling. She has a medical condition that would make it very dangerous for her to be pregnant for the next couple years. It would be bad for her and even worse for the baby. She lives in a state that has just reverted to a horribly archaic law that is now in effect. Those Supreme court assholes made my baby girl cry.

And now I'm steeling myself to go to church tomorrow and hear one of the women express her happiness about the ruling during Joys & Concerns. I'm going to need a drink when I get home.

I'm so sorry for your daughter. And I understand the steeling yourself: I keep wondering what they'll say during the pastor's prayers this morning at mine. If you're feeling bold/able to, maybe prepare something to say as a concern in counterpoint?

[Destiny]

I’ve been thinking about this, and I think we need to do a “What now” thread like we did in 2016 — how we can help organizations that have been planning for this for years now. If you’ve got some ideas for organizations and such to start or other things to think about please PM me. I am off for a bit this morning but can start working on it in the afternoon.