Fundy Reaction Responses to Smuggar's Guilty Verdict

[Father Son Holy Goat]

35 minutes ago, meep said:

As in LaGrange IL?!?! I thought he moved to Texas??? This is way too close for comfort. 

I would assume since the information was in the Chicago Tribune it’s LaGrange, IL

I’m never going to their Noodles and Company again. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Father Son Holy Goat

[clueliss]

I seem to oddly recall that LaGrange would have been the area that Joshly was sent to post Joshgate 2.0 (Ashley Madison) for “rehab” some Christian org or something.  And at various points JD was flying Anna and whichever child she was nursing at the time up for periodic visits.  Possibly with JB along,

[JDuggs]

4 minutes ago, clueliss said:

I seem to oddly recall that LaGrange would have been the area that Joshly was sent to post Joshgate 2.0 (Ashley Madison) for “rehab” some Christian org or something.  And at various points JD was flying Anna and whichever child she was nursing at the time up for periodic visits.  Possibly with JB along,

No, LaGrange is a suburb of Chicago. Josh’s “rehab” was in Rockford, IL, about 1.5 hours from Chicago.

[formergothardite]

42 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Because of the similarity in beliefs and the number of children, the Duggars and Bateses are often compared. The glaring difference between the 2 families is money. JB had enough money to withhold educate and to control adult offspring. Gil doesn’t have that level of  control over his adult kids because he doesn’t have the money to dangle. Everything is predicated on money. Would JBD have allowed Jinger to become a hairdresser or Jill a licensed nurse? I’m not sure. 

I feel like how they treat their adult children reveal the part of reason they got into the lifestyle. Jim Bob liked it because it gave him ultimate control over his family. Gil liked it because it provided justification for him to quit his job and get to grift full time. Jim Bob has always come off as power hungry, which is probably why Gothard never let him into the inner circle but let Gil in. Gil ended up with the perfect grift. He got a reality tv show where he not only gets paid, UP helps pay for travel and things like weddings. He also got to help take over the cult and gain access to the money and other perks. 

[MamaJunebug]

16 hours ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

I sincerely hope so. This and a thousand other regrets that act as rocket fuel to get herself and children as far away from Josh and the Duggars as possible. Preferably in the real, non ATI world.

That sounds good, but I’ve been thinking. 
Early in the marriages, Josh said he’d be content with a family of 2 or 3 kids. They wound up with 7.  Anna didn’t seem to submit to all of her headship’s wishes.
This tells me she’s irretrievably in the quagmire. I hope I’m wrong. 
Unnecessary “woulda coulda shoulda,” but I wonder if Josh would have gone as extremely as he did, had he and Anna only had 2 or 3 children to care for.  Doesn’t matter, of course. But it’s been niggling at my mind. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

29 minutes ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

I would assume since the information was in the Chicago Tribune it’s LaGrange, IL

I’m never going to their Noodles and Company again. 

Gothard owns it or just because it's in the same town?  

Yes, it's LaGrange Illinois, hi neighbor.

IBLP headquarters used to be in Oak Brook, that's where the Wallers lived between going to Texas.  Before I knew that when I'd see Oak Brook Tower from the expressway I'd think "I worked there briefly."  After learning about the above every time I see it I think, "the old pervert HQ."

[EmiSue]

4 hours ago, imokit said:

They've linked Jinger's but not made their own statement.

I think there is a lot of thinking and processing going on in that house right now.

I'm guessing they had no clue what really happened to Joy as a child and are in shock. Honestly feeling the worst for them out of all the siblings. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

29 minutes ago, clueliss said:

I seem to oddly recall that LaGrange would have been the area that Joshly was sent to post Joshgate 2.0 (Ashley Madison) for “rehab” some Christian org or something.  And at various points JD was flying Anna and whichever child she was nursing at the time up for periodic visits.  Possibly with JB along,

We had Gothard, the Pecans, and the Keileens (sp) down here so when Josh needed somewhere to go those of us in the surrounding burbs flipped on the No Vacancy sign, pulled the shades down, and pretended we weren't home, so they went to Rockford.

Sadly, they were caught unaware and answered the door.  That'll teach em.

18 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

UP helps pay for travel and things like weddings.

I am currently helping my daughter plan her wedding so can confirm as expensive as it can be it's still better to pay with cash than with your children's privacy and childhoods.

 

9 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

That sounds good, but I’ve been thinking. 
Early in the marriages, Josh said he’d be content with a family of 2 or 3 kids. They wound up with 7.  Anna didn’t seem to submit to all of her headship’s wishes.
This tells me she’s irretrievably in the quagmire. I hope I’m wrong. 
Unnecessary “woulda coulda shoulda,” but I wonder if Josh would have gone as extremely as he did, had he and Anna only had 2 or 3 children to care for.  Doesn’t matter, of course. But it’s been niggling at my mind. 

He also said he wanted to be a lawyer once upon a time.  Josh says what he thinks will be a good soundbyte.

If he wanted to limit kids he could have refused her joyful availability at strategic times.  

I don't for one second think he wanted to be a father or the responsibility, but I do think he knew that he needed to be the dutiful quiver filler if he wanted to keep his parenting footing the bill for his family and entire life.   I mean with the exception of his short stint at the FRC (does anyone remember how long he was there?) he's never financially supported his family.  And even that job he only got because of his name.  

Someone who worked with him there did an AMA on reddit and it read pretty true to me since she didn't have any elaborate stories or juicy details, but the comments about how he was cringe in meetings because he didn't understand how business works and couldn't read the room amused me.  She said she has no idea what his actual duties there were and no one else she knew did either.  

[JDuggs]

34 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

IBLP headquarters used to be in Oak Brook, that's where the Wallers lived between going to Texas.  Before I knew that when I'd see Oak Brook Tower from the expressway I'd think "I worked there briefly."  After learning about the above every time I see it I think, "the old pervert HQ."

IBLP isn’t or wasn’t located in the Oak Brook Tower was it? I thought their complex was a few miles south of there. Does anyone know if there is still any IBLP presence in the area? I thought it was all supposed to move to Texas. I live in the area too and while a majority of the people here are affiliated or identify with a religion, fundies would be very rare. Maybe they go unnoticed because of the dense population here. I don’t think many locals were lured in.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

28 minutes ago, JDuggs said:

IBLP isn’t or wasn’t located in the Oak Brook Tower was it? I thought their complex was a few miles south of there. Does anyone know if there is still any IBLP presence in the area? I thought it was all supposed to move to Texas. I live in the area too and while a majority of the people here are affiliated or identify with a religion, fundies would be very rare. Maybe they go unnoticed because of the dense population here. I don’t think many locals were lured in.

No, sorry I worded that badly.

I don't have reason to go to Oak Brook often, but I see the tower fairly frequently from the road while driving which is when the thoughts spring to mind.

I agree with you, lots of churches around here and I have a fundy lite family member (Willow Creek) and my mom was fundy lite for much of my childhood and I'd never heard of IBLP before FJ.  

I think their lifestyle is easier in more rural areas.  I read that before the Duggars would go into certain stores with the kids employees would turn around the "dirty" magazines like Cosmo, Vouge, and the Enquierer.  No way would that happen in the Chicago area.  Even if that isn't true, you can't isolate your kids as completely without some physical distance between them and the outside world.  With our real estate prices the cost of getting acres of land and a house big enough for eleventy hundred kids in proximity to Oak Brook would bring even JB to his knees and would be completely out of reach of non-televised fundies.

Also, I'm sure homeschooling is a thing everywhere, but it's much more rare here than in rural areas so less support of other families, I'd think.  [Our of curiosity I looked up Illinois homeschooling regs right now and damn, it's a fundy's dream - no oversight.   ]

Edited December 12, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy

[gustava]

1 hour ago, fluffernutter said:

I just did net worth for Jana Duggar and it says $400,000.

Dang.  No wonder she stays at home.  JB is bribing her😐

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, gustava said:

Dang.  No wonder she stays at home.  JB is bribing her😐

What's the source for this?

[Father Son Holy Goat]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Gothard owns it or just because it's in the same town?  

Yes, it's LaGrange Illinois, hi neighbor.

IBLP headquarters used to be in Oak Brook, that's where the Wallers lived between going to Texas.  Before I knew that when I'd see Oak Brook Tower from the expressway I'd think "I worked there briefly."  After learning about the above every time I see it I think, "the old pervert HQ."

Because it’s in La Grange. 
 

I know exactly where their headquarters are, off Ogden Ave.

 

Howdy neighbor!

Edited December 12, 2021 by Father Son Holy Goat

[HoneyBunny]

15 hours ago, Father Son Holy Goat said:

Bloody hell that’s funny

Yes! My mom is deceased and no one is allowed to speak badly about her. It’s taken me years of therapy to be able to talk about what a bitch she really was. 

One of the finest life wisdoms I’ve ever heard came from FJ probably 10 years ago, and, though I have no idea who said it, I’ll be grateful forever. 

“Just because someone is dead, it doesn’t make them a better person. It just makes them dead.”

Honestly, it was life changing for me to hear that. 

[smittykins]

18 hours ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

I would love it if she committed the ultimate act of defiance and changed it to a non M. 

Serious question:  would she need Josh’s permission to do so?

[3KidsAndStopped]

Just now, smittykins said:

Serious question:  would she need Josh’s permission to do so?

In the UK, parental rights are not automatically rescinded whilst in prison, but they may be by petition by the other parent or by nature of the crime-I dont know if that is the same in the US?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

9 minutes ago, smittykins said:

Serious question:  would she need Josh’s permission to do so?

When I had my kids I filled out the birth certificate information I don't think my husband had to sign as well.  

This is a good question.  If a parent is incarcerated I'd imagine legally the other parent has not only full physical custody but sole legal for the duration of their sentence, but now I'm wondering how that works?  It's not giving up parental rights since the other parent couldn't give the kids up for adoption just because their spouse is in prison, but they'd have to have full legal rights in other areas - kind of like power of attorney?

Now I'm curious - does anyone with knowledge of family law know?

[hoipolloi]

14 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It's not giving up parental rights since the other parent couldn't give the kids up for adoption just because their spouse is in prison, but they'd have to have full legal rights in other areas - kind of like power of attorney?

And does having a "covenant marriage" make a difference? 

According to the linked definition, sexual abuse of the spouse or a child are grounds for terminating the marriage.

[smittykins]

Josh and Anna don’t have a covenant marriage, though; they were married in Florida, which doesn’t recognize it.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

49 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

And does having a "covenant marriage" make a difference? 

According to the linked definition, sexual abuse of the spouse or a child are grounds for terminating the marriage.

They don't have one.  It's not a thing in Florida where they married.

Sorry, I should read all the posts before responding.

Edited December 12, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy

[meep]

3 hours ago, JDuggs said:

fundies would be very rare. 

....you'd be surprised. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, meep said:

....you'd be surprised. 

There are definitely fundies up here, but the percentage is much lower than in the areas where these fundies live.  

[Beermeet]

6 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

That sounds good, but I’ve been thinking. 
Early in the marriages, Josh said he’d be content with a family of 2 or 3 kids. They wound up with 7.  Anna didn’t seem to submit to all of her headship’s wishes.
This tells me she’s irretrievably in the quagmire. I hope I’m wrong. 
Unnecessary “woulda coulda shoulda,” but I wonder if Josh would have gone as extremely as he did, had he and Anna only had 2 or 3 children to care for.  Doesn’t matter, of course. But it’s been niggling at my mind. 

This thought process is so difficult,  imo.  Because,  we understand Josh was screwed over by his parents and the cult.  At the same time, we only have to look at Josh's brothers to see they didn't become pedophiles with the same upbringing.   They may all be misogynistic and whatnot but not a pedophile.   

Watching mainstream porn is one thing but csam?!  Very few can even stomach it, nevermind enjoy it.  I think Josh is wired wrong ( nature) and his family situation didn't help at all ( nurture).  Who knows.  Plenty of pedophiles are not in ATI or any religious cults.  They just are or drugs are heavily involved.   

It's a nice thought that this could be prevented with good parenting but, I don't think it's like that personally.  

Edited December 12, 2021 by Beermeet

[HerNameIsBuffy]

23 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

Watching mainstream porn is one thing but csam?!  Very few can even stomach it, nevermind enjoy it.  I think Josh is wired wrong ( nature) and his family situation didn't help at all ( nurture).  Who knows. 

This, but we do know the stress of life, more kids than you want, a boring marriage whatever does not create a desire for CSAM.  He is wired wrong.  He has shit parents and a very dysfunctional cult, but if that is why he is what he is it's because it was so commonplace they normalized pedofilia in their circles.  It's not because he was forced into a life he doesn't want, or didn't get enough hugs as a kid.  If that were the case the majority of the population would be like Josh.

[EmCatlyn]

7 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

That sounds good, but I’ve been thinking. 
Early in the marriages, Josh said he’d be content with a family of 2 or 3 kids. They wound up with 7.  Anna didn’t seem to submit to all of her headship’s wishes.
This tells me she’s irretrievably in the quagmire. I hope I’m wrong. 
Unnecessary “woulda coulda shoulda,” but I wonder if Josh would have gone as extremely as he did, had he and Anna only had 2 or 3 children to care for.  Doesn’t matter, of course. But it’s been niggling at my mind. 

Josh grew up in a cult that says you take as many kids as you get.  He may not have wanted more than 2 or 3, but since they don’t believe in birth control, the only ways he could have avoided repeated fatherhood were abstention or to go against his family’s beliefs.  Apparently he chose neither.

We should stop blaming Anna for the number of children.  According to their teachings, he could have used a condom and she could not have refused him.  He could have gone secretly and got a vasectomy while they were in DC. (He was doing other secret things.)

I think Josh was torn about his growing family.  On the one hand, it gave him status in his world.  On the other hand, he didn’t want the responsibility.  He took relatively little responsibility and left everything to Anna, so I am guessing he wasn’t too greatly inconvenienced.

His sexual proclivities cannot be blamed on having too many children.  He obviously had an inappropriate interest in his young sisters when he was a teenager.

That being said, it is possible that his perversions escalated after they returned to Arkansas, he was disgraced, and he seemed to have no future.  The Ashley Madison stuff and “porn addiction” and the incident with Danica all suggest an interest in adult women.  He may not have gotten into CSAM until after some years later.  We really don’t know anything, except that his family didn’t do anything to keep him from becoming a monster.