Fundy Reaction Responses to Smuggar's Guilty Verdict

[EyesOpen]

The Ellie blog posted (attached) bland statement. I thought perhaps they would stop the blog and disassociate from the duggars because they stopped allowing comments and didn’t post for josie’s birthday… guess not

[JMO]

Did Jessa ever release a statement? I thought only Ben did.

[Mama Mia]

28 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

There are drugs (androgen suppression therapy) to reduce testosterone levels and alter sex drive so they won't get aroused. 

Look up leuprolide acetate, Degarelix, cyproterone acetate and medroxyprogesterone acetate. 

Not all pedophiles assault kids, and not all who assault kids are pedophiles.

I am not a medical expert, but I think when you get to literally torturing infants, you are in to a whole different category than sex drive suppression. 

[onekidanddone]

33 minutes ago, EyesOpen said:

The Ellie blog posted (attached) bland statement. I thought perhaps they would stop the blog and disassociate from the duggars because they stopped allowing comments and didn’t post for josie’s birthday… guess not

No mention what so ever about the victims in the CSAM Josh watched or prayers for his sisters.  😡 

[SisterCupcake]

33 minutes ago, EyesOpen said:

The Ellie blog posted (attached) bland statement. I thought perhaps they would stop the blog and disassociate from the duggars because they stopped allowing comments and didn’t post for josie’s birthday… guess not

 

It must be weird to be Ellie. She started this and the Bates blog as sort of fangirl blogs with her mom when she was a teen, thinking, like lots of people did, that they were the perfect little families. FWIW, I'm glad she finally acknowledged the trial and conviction. It will be interesting to see if she continues it, given that much of her stuff these days is a random collection of publicly available photos/news articles/instagram reshares. It's been quite a bit since either the Duggars or the Bates have given her any insider info from what I can tell, so I'm wondering if she will publicly end the affiliation or just kind of let the Duggar blog fade off into obscurity...

[Mama Mia]

10 hours ago, JDuggs said:

Just a discussion point. What do you think the family’s reaction would have been if Josh had been found not guilty? Would they agree that justice had been served or would they just say that they respect the jury’s decision or something else? Jill, Jinger and Joy seem to have made it clear that they think that Josh is guilty. Would they have admitted that if the verdict was different?

I think most of them wouldn’t have released a statement, or a vague and short “ we respect the jury’s decision and pray for all victims”  I don’t think any of them would have seen it as a total vindication of Josh and be convinced it actually meant he was innocent- except possibly JB. But judgement of JB and his parenting and lifestyle and arrogance aside etc…as a parent, I would certainly WANT to hold out hope that the government got it wrong and my child was innocent. I’m sure the rest of the family would want that as well, but doubt they would be fully convinced just based on the evidence given. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

48 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

There are drugs (androgen suppression therapy) to reduce testosterone levels and alter sex drive so they won't get aroused. 

Look up leuprolide acetate, Degarelix, cyproterone acetate and medroxyprogesterone acetate. 

Not all pedophiles assault kids, and not all who assault kids are pedophiles.

Just my layperon's opinion, but I wouldn't trust anything to work on Josh because he's clearly sadistic and the gratification from causing harm goes beyond arousal in many such people.

Thanks for the info though, I hope those who have that attraction but have never acted upon it can find a protocol that gives them so relief from their thoughts.

[sparrow]

5 hours ago, ElToro said:

Well, after all, Josh could have chosen to plead guilty and avoided having Bobye's testimony made so public.

Nevermind. Googled it. 🙂

Edited December 13, 2021 by sparrow

[livinginthelight]

1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

I am not a medical expert, but I think when you get to literally torturing infants, you are in to a whole different category than sex drive suppression. 

Yeah, people sexually abuse kids for different reasons. Some for the sexual gratification, some because they are very very emotionally stunted and see it as a "relationship", some for sadistic pleasure. Many molesters are also married and have normal-appearing relationships with their wives.

There is no reliable way to cure pedophiles. Drugs can help diminish sexual arousal. Some pedophiles might take those drugs as part of a plea bargain after they've been caught. And a few might talk to their doctors about it if they get up their courage.  I'm not sure how wide-spread the use of drugs is.

But remember CSA isn't all about sexual arousal. There is a power element to it. And sometimes sadism, which I see as different than just power.

Josh would not be helped by drugs.

Edited December 13, 2021 by livinginthelight

[SassyPants]

Per their messages and the fact that they attended the proceedings, daily, both the Forsyth’s and Dillard’s indicate that they wanted to hear the evidence to determine it’s validity, and after having done so, both couples agreed with the verdict reached. Those individuals showed up, listened and came to the same measured conclusion. I believe that is why their statements sound more credible than some of the others. 

1 hour ago, JMO said:

Did Jessa ever release a statement? I thought only Ben did.

I can’t remember a statement from either of them after the verdict. Did Ben attend any of the trial? 

Edited December 13, 2021 by SassyPants

[breakfree]

For me there's no real beating JinJer's statement --nothing says it better than  "You're gonna burn in hell and also it would be better if you were dead"-- but I am actually most touched overall by Joy and Austen, who clearly spoke from their hearts, with their own words, as unambiguously as possible. I think Joy is a very strong person and I sincerely hope that she and her little family are able to work through all of this and move forward in a healthy way.

I am struck that of all the statements the only one that does not seem to acknowledge Josh's guilt is Boob and ofBoob. Even Jessa and Ben's which (while I realize her status aa a victim and do not want to diminish it) was a very half hearted effort compared to all the others does seem to acknowledge that Josh is a bad person who did this.

[Cam]

It’s hard to understand Josh’s addictions, afflictions, delusions, behaviors, all the things. His mind is wired differently and I agree with the assessment of nature and nurture and how in this case, both turned Josh into  what he is.

It floors me how he took everyone in his immediate and extended family down with him. Scandal wasn’t a deterrent for him, neither was ruin. Duggars are linked to his crimes forever.

Plus he infiltrated the very heart of what Duggardom was all about. They were famous for 17,18,19 KAC, their ability and desire to procreate. So much about having kids it was the title of their show.. It wasn’t called “Beebopping Baptists”.  It’s not like his family were well known for being musicians, owning an automobile dynasty or a chain of restaurants, etc. They were all about having sex continually to have more and more children. And he shit all over their ideals. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Cam

[karenb4729]

I think Joy's statement was very reflective of her and Austin.  They have always seemed to like their privacy which is one of the reasons this all must be so hard to process.  Everything done to her was made very public and I'm sure were things that weren't ever told to her.  It really has hurt my heart seeing her and Austin looking so "shell shocked".  They have already been so much for their age including the loss of their baby.  I hope they both are able to get some professional help.

 

[feministxtian]

Austin looked more pissed off than usual. I have a feeling that even Derek wouldn't mind taking Smuggar out back and "talking" to him. I feel especially for Joy and Austin. She was so young and now has found out the truth vs. the bullshit her parents spewed. I hope she is allowed to seek psychological help outside the cult. 

[TuringMachine]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

I can’t remember a statement from either of them after the verdict. Did Ben attend any of the trial? 

No he didn't. The sun reported Jessa as being there, but I don't believe them.

[Mama Mia]

1 hour ago, breakfree said:

For me there's no real beating JinJer's statement --nothing says it better than  "You're gonna burn in hell and also it would be better if you were dead"-- but I am actually most touched overall by Joy and Austen, who clearly spoke from their hearts, with their own words, as unambiguously as possible. I think Joy is a very strong person and I sincerely hope that she and her little family are able to work through all of this and move forward in a healthy way.

I am struck that of all the statements the only one that does not seem to acknowledge Josh's guilt is Boob and ofBoob. Even Jessa and Ben's which (while I realize her status aa a victim and do not want to diminish it) was a very half hearted effort compared to all the others does seem to acknowledge that Josh is a bad person who did this.

In my reading of it, even JB and Michelle’s statement acknowledged Josh’s guilt. Or at the very least didn’t proclaim his innocence. They said they still loved him - but it’s his parents - of course they do. 

[ifosterkittens]

If Joy/Austin, Jinger/Jeremy or Jill/Derrick had originally planned to attend the Duggars for Christmas I am going to guess that plan has changed. It would be interesting to know did they already have something scheduled, if anyone backs out, and did they do it in advance or last minute say oh the kids are sick, can't make it. I don't know if Jill/Derrick would even be invited. 

I wonder if any of the other adult Duggar kids are saying to their spouse let's do Christmas with your parents, or just do a quiet Christmas at home. 

[Alisamer]

35 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

Austin looked more pissed off than usual. I have a feeling that even Derek wouldn't mind taking Smuggar out back and "talking" to him. I feel especially for Joy and Austin. She was so young and now has found out the truth vs. the bullshit her parents spewed. I hope she is allowed to seek psychological help outside the cult. 

I hope they all get some actual help. They desperately need it. Hopefully Jill has talked to Joy and gently suggested she talk to a therapist about it. 

 

1 minute ago, ifosterkittens said:

If Joy/Austin, Jinger/Jeremy or Jill/Derrick had originally planned to attend the Duggars for Christmas I am going to guess that plan has changed. It would be interesting to know did they already have something scheduled, if anyone backs out, and did they do it in advance or last minute say oh the kids are sick, can't make it. I don't know if Jill/Derrick would even be invited. 

I wonder if any of the other adult Duggar kids are saying to their spouse let's do Christmas with your parents, or just do a quiet Christmas at home. 

That is interesting, and it will be fascinating to see how it pans out (if they share it). I think Jillrod said Nurthan are going to be at the Kellers house for Christmas. Wonder if Anna will haul her brood there for that, or if she'll stay with the Duggars for it. Might depend on whether Josh is allowed visitors or not.

[Idlewild]

JB & M have, in my view, forfeited the right to any family Christmas with the daughters that were abused. I feel desperately for these women, even if I’ve never liked them much before. Can you imagine Joy- who was talked out of her doubts about the cult by Joe- finding out what her brother did to her, how her parents spun the narrative to forget and minimise it and that Josh enjoys watching children the same age as her daughter be tortured? 
Sometimes family members are so toxic and so bad for your well-being that you just have to go no contact.

[EmiSue]

31 minutes ago, ifosterkittens said:

If Joy/Austin, Jinger/Jeremy or Jill/Derrick had originally planned to attend the Duggars for Christmas I am going to guess that plan has changed. It would be interesting to know did they already have something scheduled, if anyone backs out, and did they do it in advance or last minute say oh the kids are sick, can't make it. I don't know if Jill/Derrick would even be invited. 

I wonder if any of the other adult Duggar kids are saying to their spouse let's do Christmas with your parents, or just do a quiet Christmas at home. 

The Dillards haven't done holidays with the Duggars for a few years now. The Vuolos haven't either. They have more motivation now, but it's not reflective of much change. The Seewalds and Forsyths making other plans will signal a shift. I think they usually do Thanksgiving with in-laws and Christmas with the Duggars. Don't know about the married sons, but if they all or mostly skip, it could mean something. Personally, I'd love to see them gather separately from TTH and JB&M and then post to social media how much fun they're having, but probably not this year.

[Sabine]

4 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

There are drugs (androgen suppression therapy) to reduce testosterone levels and alter sex drive so they won't get aroused. 

Look up leuprolide acetate, Degarelix, cyproterone acetate and medroxyprogesterone acetate. 

Not all pedophiles assault kids, and not all who assault kids are pedophiles.

Yes, that is Lupron, the same drug that is give to suppress Puberty, the same drug that was given to Alan Turing to chemically castrate him so that he would be no longer a homosexual. 

https://www.thecut.com/2015/12/what-its-like-to-be-chemically-castrated.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

http://www.phsa.ca/transcarebc/child-youth/affirmation-transition/medical-affirmation-transition/puberty-blockers-for-youth#:~:text=The puberty blocker used most,by the PharmaCare Plan G.

funnily enough i think the medication is also used for Prostate Cancer.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/324480#:~:text=Lupron is a type of,radiation therapy or following surgery.

however, you can not castrate the mind. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Sabine
add links for clarity.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

58 minutes ago, Mama Mia said:

In my reading of it, even JB and Michelle’s statement acknowledged Josh’s guilt. Or at the very least didn’t proclaim his innocence. They said they still loved him - but it’s his parents - of course they do. 

That's how I read it.  If a parent truly believes their kid is innocent you say that and you don't mention still loving them.  Why wouldn't you still love them if they were falsely convicted.  You'd be rallying people to help you fight this injustice.  

I read this as an acknowledgement of guilt with built in plausible deniability for when he's questioned about financing his defense and lying for him in pretrial.

Serious issues aside, I would be always looking for ways to avoid a Duggar Christmas if I was one of them.

Just the snippets of video with the noise, the mess, the chaos, the NOISE...I need to flee just thinking about it.

Edited December 13, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy

[Cam]

I think any plans for Christmas would have begun with: “Let’s deal first with the trial and then take it from there”. Individual couples may have discussed thoughts about Christmas between themselves and talked about different scenarios depending on how things might unfold and then probably are revisiting the conversation in the trial’s aftermath to see how they want to handle the holiday.
 

It’s sickening how JB and Michele have treated Jill like she was the pariah and then turn around and poured massive amounts of money into Josh’s legal team. What happens when he’s put of prison? Does he get a free pass to visit the parental units whenever he wants ‘cuz he did his time?
 

So, not just the lies that the parents told their daughters but the favoritism towards Josh who’s deviant ways brought so much shame to the family makes for plenty of justified resentment and anger. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Cam

[quiversR4hunting]

18 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

When we had our foster kids, they were wards of the state, but we had to get permission from the mom for haircuts, etc. (No dads in the picture.) Once she was sentenced, (45 years) her parental rights were terminated. The haircut thing was sensitive because of native Americans having their customs ignored. Our kids weren't native Americans, but we still had to get permission.

In you experience, parental rights were terminated because the kids were foster kids and already wards of the state not because the mom went to prison. In addition, parental rights must be terminated prior to any adoption being able to happen. 

In Anna & Josh's case, I don't think his parental rights will automatically terminate*. I think Anna would have to create a compelling motion as to why his rights must be terminated. By virtue of him being in prison she automatically will have 100% physical custody. Legal custody, I don't know. I am not an attorney so not sure if a prisoner can still help decide things legally for their children. 

*not an attorney just a child support analyst that sees a lot of cases. 

[3KidsAndStopped]

Re: rehab, there was a very interesting documentary done by Raphael Rowe (whose story in itself is very interesting) called inside the World's Toughest Prisons, he actually goes and stays in them as an inmate-crazy brave-but the very last one in series 3 is about Halden Prison in Norway. Its called The Perfect Prison. They do house sex offenders, including paedophiles. Their approach is very different to other prisons. It is worth a watch (I havent seen it for a long time, I dont recall anything being overtly upsetting but it has been a long time so read the synopsis/watch with caution.

To be fair the series is pretty good overall.