(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 41: Will the Rebers Continue their B&B for Child Predators After the Trial?

[JMO]

Just because we are throwing around the words a lot I want to point out that there is a difference between a psychopath and a sociopath.  Psychopaths are born that way and aren't necessarily "evil" but don't have natural empathy/remorse so it's easier for them to be cruel/abusive to others. Sociopaths are created through the culture they were raised in or were exposed to in formative years. They do have empathy.  Think child soldiers or gang members. They are able to do cruel or abusive things since that is what they were made to think is normal or ok but they do have empathy and can feel remorse. Sociopaths are a lot more common. Just a FYI, I did a deep dive on this not long ago.

[nausicaa]

5 hours ago, Antimony said:

Fight The New Drug is definitely not an unbiased source by far. Founded in Utah...hmm.

Every single founder of Fight the New Drug is a member of the LDS church and there's evidence the LDS church provided seed money for it to get started. Really surprised people think it's secular. 

The director of research is a BYU professor and filed lawsuits challenging same sex marriage laws, arguing that gay marriage would weaken family connections and then relying on the old population replacement myths. Lots of hinkyness going on there. 

 

As for people not thinking Josh is a pedophile: I have no professional background in this, but what makes me think he is one rather than just a "sexual crime of opportunity" type is 1. He never assaulted the sister closest in age to him who would have been beginning to undergo puberty. 2. If he is just a sadist, or only can get off on people being in pain, there is more physically extreme BDSM/torture porn out there between consenting adults that would be completely legal for him to watch. Why not just go with that and never have to look over your shoulder for the Feds?

[Sabine]

2 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Every single founder of Fight the New Drug is a member of the LDS church and there's evidence the LDS church provided seed money for it to get started. Really surprised people think it's secular. 

The director of research is a BYU professor and filed lawsuits challenging same sex marriage laws, arguing that gay marriage would weaken family connections and then relying on the old population replacement myths. Lots of hinkyness going on there. 

 

As for people not thinking Josh is a pedophile: I have no professional background in this, but what makes me think he is one rather than just a "sexual crime of opportunity" type is 1. He never assaulted the sister closest in age to him who would have been beginning to undergo puberty. 2. If he is just a sadist, or only can get off on people being in pain, there is more physically extreme BDSM/torture porn out there between consenting adults that would be completely legal for him to watch. Why not just go with that and never have to look over your shoulder for the Feds?

because what he is looking for is 'can not consent'. The true sadist don't look for consent. 

[neuroticcat]

2 hours ago, QuiverFullOfCondoms said:

This is just anecdotal, can’t remember where I saw it (and what country it was in), but decades ago there was a group of pedophiles who was very open about their feelings but not acting out on them. All nice and dandy. Until they got arrested for CSAM which they had and shared on the down low. Their defense: we aren’t involved in physical CSA.

Yeah, last week a sociology professor was fired for suggesting we need to refer to pedos as their preferred identity “Minor Attracted Persons.” I’m suspicious that suggestions like that or support groups indirectly normalize it.  

[neuroticcat]

FWIW the best theological work I’ve read discussing theodicy is Fleming Rutledge’s “The Crucifixion.” Especially her chapter titled “The Descent into Hell.”

[Sabine]

5 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

Yeah, last week a sociology professor was fired for suggesting we need to refer to pedos as their preferred identity “Minor Attracted Persons.” I’m suspicious that suggestions like that or support groups indirectly normalize it.  

They also advocated for 'dolls' to be used so that they had an outlet. You can listen to that professor on youtube - yes, their drivel is still on youtube - and its not pretty. I just recently read an article about a guy in Holland i think who makes these dolls - very much like reborn dolls - and one can send any picture and he will make a one to that image. So many tings so very very wrong, and the MAP chorus is echoed by many Child rapists rights groups. I don't even want to use the word 'pedophile' as it literally just means youth lover.  Equally despicable was a lady from the UK who opinionated that we should get young people to view 'entry level porn' rather then the hard core stuff they find online. Never mind that for all that porn, someone actually has to be the 'actor/actress'. 

Something has gone very wrong i fear. Or maybe i am just not porn positive enough. 

https://gript.ie/journalist-someone-needs-to-create-porn-for-children/

i know its the daily fail, but then not many outlets really went into that much detail. As the old saying goes, a broken clock is twice correct, and this was not too bad an article. - It seems that the Professor has resigned since. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10212633/Trans-professor-placed-leave-defending-pedophiles.html 

As for pedophile dolls, don't search for it, unless you have the stomach for it. 

[scoutsadie]

Just saw a post on FW dated Nov 27 with a photo of Ma Keller at TTH, attending a rally for Jim Bob's campaign. I hope for Anna's sake that she's still in town. While I think the Kellers are awful for marrying off their child to someone they had been told (by his family) had fondled his sisters, and I can't fathom Anna having had more kids with him after things came out in 2015, I still feel for what she must be going through sitting through this trial. I'm guessing that having her mom around right now must be some comfort.

[PinkGreyBrown]

Pretty sure child molesters also like 'pedo____' terminology since it literally means 'child lover' (which is why I avoid it).

[waltraute]

I wonder what is going on in JB and Michelle's marriage right now. I'd gotten the impression that they weren't always on the same page regarding how they should deal with Josh. I wonder if blame is being placed or fingers pointed. Are they united on how to handle court or the fallout?

I'm really curious. 

[Idlewild]

The world of child sex dolls is vile- England introduced laws about importing them a few years ago and I had to look into it- I came away feeling very grubby.

[SorenaJ]

I think porn is probably not the healthiest dopamine-releasing outlet, as it can create unrealistic expectations about what women look like, making them feel inadequate for not living up to that.  

I feel the same about most social media. 

[SorenaJ]

Quote

FTND claims they use "peer reviewed science and research" to back their information. A "sex/porn addiction" diagnosis does not exist in the DSM-5, which was explicitly rejected for "lack of scientific evidence."

@Antimony It exists in the ICD-11 as a compulsive sexual behaviour disorder. 

[Jinderella]

9 hours ago, SamanthasMom said:

I also don’t think it’s a given that Anna and the kids will continue to be supported. Both sets of parents are missing from the trial, and so much is coming out how much worse would it be if Anna did spill the beans? It is about as bad as it can get now. They might want to wash their hands of Josh’s whole family. I would not want to plan on continued support from cheapskate JB.

JB didn't want to pay for Samuel's birth, despite knowing Derick would love to spill all the beans. I don't see him doing more for Anna than offer her and the M's a (shared) bed in the TTH and use of the pantry. Anna could take up laundry duty, the in house cleaning lady. I don't see JB doing free money, especially after the negative press and loss of TLC Josh put him through. 

I always wonder how the supporting of JB's offspring works after the gift of a house at marriage, I don't see him handing over his money very easy at all. Do the married kids have to ask every month? Do they need to provide evidence of not making it on their own? Does JB judge how much they spent? Does he invent jobs to let them earn the money? 

[3KidsAndStopped]

4 hours ago, SorenaJ said:

I think porn is probably not the healthiest dopamine-releasing outlet, as it can create unrealistic expectations about what women look like, making them feel inadequate for not living up to that.  

I feel the same about most social media. 

This. A thousand times this.

[Queen Of Hearts]

Happy Monday! I feel this is going to be a very good week for justice!

[FiveAcres]

I am feeling for the jurors driving to the courthouse right now thinking "What fresh hell today?"

[lilwriter85]

10 hours ago, PinkGreyBrown said:

From previous discussions it had sounded like Josh would most likely end up in a federal penitentiary (or portion thereof) dedicated to sex offenders & others needing to be kept in protective custody / away from general population (convicted former law enforcement, I guess, maybe), & would be interacting with that population. So that's more what I had in mind.

& about what JB & Michelle might want kept secret: probably ordinary information such as what they're like when they're angry, if they yell or are mean. They're such control freaks who've put so much effort into presenting what they seem to think of as a perfect front, it's gonna be all the many ways they fall short of that image they have of themselves. Way more likely than the JB-is-money-laundering & similar speculations floating around.

I joined FJ during the Yuku days in 2011 before the move to here.  I sort of recall there were discussions about someone who posted on TWOP that she knew a former neighbor of the Duggars who said that Michelle was known to yell at the kids constantly that people in the neighborhood would hear her. 

 

 

 

[3KidsAndStopped]

Just a thought before the trial resumes. It seems Jill and Jed may testify today. 

Just my opinion, but if, as parents, you do not go to the court physically to support your child testify to the abuse they suffered at the hands of their sibling with the whole world watching, you are a shit parent.

Sending strength today, particularly to Jill.

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Jinderella said:

JB didn't want to pay for Samuel's birth, despite knowing Derick would love to spill all the beans. I don't see him doing more for Anna than offer her and the M's a (shared) bed in the TTH and use of the pantry. Anna could take up laundry duty, the in house cleaning lady. I don't see JB doing free money, especially after the negative press and loss of TLC Josh put him through. 

I always wonder how the supporting of JB's offspring works after the gift of a house at marriage, I don't see him handing over his money very easy at all. Do the married kids have to ask every month? Do they need to provide evidence of not making it on their own? Does JB judge how much they spent? Does he invent jobs to let them earn the money? 

The problem is in JB thinking it’s all his money. The kids worked, many of them all their lives, for that money. In the CO years they did 99.9% of the work. In modern day America, even in the TV world, neither kids nor young ADULTS work so that their parents can take and lord over the profits. There absolutely need to be laws that protect the assets and educational/working hours of kids participating in reality TV.

Edited December 6, 2021 by SassyPants

[Father Son Holy Goat]

10 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

I predict that it will be the 5 yr minimum. 😕 I also worry about Matthew Waller's testimony in that it may sow a seed of doubt. If he is acquitted, I think that the town would rage against the entire Duggar family which wouldn't be fair for people that are non-Josh./non-JB

Are they popular in the town? 

[imokit]

6 minutes ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

Just a thought before the trial resumes. It seems Jill and Jed may testify today. 

Just my opinion, but if, as parents, you do not go to the court physically to support your child testify to the abuse they suffered at the hands of their sibling with the whole world watching, you are a shit parent.

Sending strength today, particularly to Jill.

I hope we see the Duggar parents supporting their younger (still adult) children.   Even if Jill's on the outs with them, they should support Jed.  Whatever he's there to talk about, he's probably freaking out (I would be). I doubt we'll see them.  JB has already been humiliated by that judge, he's not going to show his face again.

I wonder if we'll see more Duggar siblings their to support Jed & Jill, even if we don't see JB or M.

[SongRed7]

Good morning, FJers.  Are we ready for this again? I've never hoped for the weekend to get over this fast before...but I want to see justice done this week. 

Does anyone have the link to that website that posts the legal documents? I can't find the link. Wanted to see if any new documents were posted. 

 

 

[Jinderella]

4 minutes ago, imokit said:

I hope we see the Duggar parents supporting their younger (still adult) children.   Even if Jill's on the outs with them, they should support Jed.  Whatever he's there to talk about, he's probably freaking out (I would be). I doubt we'll see them.  JB has already been humiliated by that judge, he's not going to show his face again.

I wonder if we'll see more Duggar siblings their to support Jed & Jill, even if we don't see JB or M.

Jed may be testifying for the defense, and if that's the case, I hope he doesn't get any support at all. But fingers crossed I'm judging him wrong. 

Parents that don't support their daughter when she is testifying about her abuse are no parents. A financial disagreement shouldn't matter. 

[Howl]

10 hours ago, JMO said:

Psychopaths are born that way and aren't necessarily "evil" but don't have natural empathy/remorse so it's easier for them to be cruel/abusive to others. Sociopaths are created through the culture they were raised in or were exposed to in formative years. They do have empathy. 

I've thought all along that Josh suffers from a sexual compulsion.  Stephen Sitler (at Doug Wilson's outfit) was referred to as a fixated pedophile.  No amount of counseling or psychiatric treatment could change that orientation.   Where would a sexual compulsion fit into the sociopath/psychopath model? Or is it a totally different thing?  Josh abused his sisters, went to a prostitute, joined Ashley Madison, and views images and video of child sexual abuse  and that's just what we know about.  There could be much much more.  He's been acting out sexually since pre-adolescence. 

From the ever awesome Julie Anne Smith: 

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Howl

[lilwriter85]

11 hours ago, SamanthasMom said:

I also don’t think it’s a given that Anna and the kids will continue to be supported. Both sets of parents are missing from the trial, and so much is coming out how much worse would it be if Anna did spill the beans? It is about as bad as it can get now. They might want to wash their hands of Josh’s whole family. I would not want to plan on continued support from cheapskate JB.

I was wondering about this last week in the event Josh is convicted. She has 7 kids and IIRC, the only time she ever worked was the periods when she said was taking care of the books for the car lot. JB and Michelle may not want to be on the hook for having to completely support 8 other people for several years. 

I wonder if Anna would seek help from non-profits that aid spouses and children of inmates even if Josh is convicted or would she be too proud or embarrassed to get help from the organizations. Or, maybe she would move to Florida to be be near or with her parents.

Another thing I wonder about is if JB would financially support Josh via commissary deposits if ends in prison. I can picture Joshy calling or writing JB to buy him a TV for his cell or one of those JPay tablets which are allowed in some federal and state prisons. I can picture cheapskate Jim Bob immediately bitching about the prices prison commissary charge for TV, tablets, music players, snacks, extra clothes etc.