(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 41: Will the Rebers Continue their B&B for Child Predators After the Trial?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, Emma said:

A couple of years ago I read a fascinating article, in the Atlantic, I believe. A scientist was studying brain scans of prisoners diagnosed as psychopaths to see if there were physical differences in their brains. He decided there  were and as a control did brain scans of himself and his family. Much to his horror he saw a psychopathic brain in his family. He broke the anonymity protocol to find out who it was. And it was himself! He talked to his friends and family saying well, I’m totally normal. And his friends and family replied, umm, not really. They said he did have a few of those psychopathic tendencies, albeit more mildly. His theory ended up being, yes, there are physical differences in psychopathic brains, and being brought up in a loving family, rather than a chaotic violent family, can temper these tendencies and allow these people to be productive members of society rather than violent criminals.

I posted that article a hundred years ago during some previous Josh scandal.  It's fascinating.  

[Emma]

This may be where I found it.  

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Do JB and M have a PR firm or do they manage their own media presence?  

Since they aren't showing up to Josh's trial do you think they'll show up Thursday when another court is ruling on the victims lawsuit against the county (?) for the improper redactions?

[Antimony]

9 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I posted that article a hundred years ago during some previous Josh scandal.  It's fascinating.  

Re: Psychopathy, perhaps one of the most sensationalized disorders, The Sociopath Next Door is a good look at this if I'm recalling this book well, because points out the banality of psychopathy. Maybe most sociopaths are jerks and bad dates, but most aren't murders or attackers, etc. because there is relatively little benefit to self for being those things. 

What is interesting and is kind of emerging, and could turn out to be trash, is that there is a noticable link between famously violent behavior (I mean our Netflix special serial killers) and head injuries. The previous "warning signs" (bed wetting, hurting small animals, etc) might be bunk but head injuries might be causitive-to-contributive. Here is a meta-analysis on ASD and head injury. It's hard to get more hits on searches like this, though, because the True Crime Social Media Industry has mucked most of it up and I have to catch a train in a few minutes. 

(Caveat: I last read The Sociopath Next Door at approximately age 16-17, so it may now be outdated or disliked by other psychologists, but it's one of those books that shows up if you read enough Oliver Sacks and people think, "Hmm...what are some other books this person might like?")

[Beermeet]

10 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I posted that article a hundred years ago during some previous Josh scandal.  It's fascinating.  

Would you mind finding it again or providing info so I can Google it?  Por favór?   I remember watching a Discovery Channel type show about the same type of thing.  It was broader than just psychopaths,  scans of all kinds of people, football players too.  Well, as much as they can study brains of course.  But, yes, there was a difference.   It is fascinating.  Emotions aside, it really is.  Same with genetics. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

Would you mind finding it again or providing info so I can Google it?  Por favór?   I remember watching a Discovery Channel type show about the same type of thing.  It was broader than just psychopaths,  scans of all kinds of people, football players too.  Well, as much as they can study brains of course.  But, yes, there was a difference.   It is fascinating.  Emotions aside, it really is.  Same with genetics. 

Sure

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-neuroscientist-who-discovered-he-was-a-psychopath-180947814/

 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

13 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Do JB and M have a PR firm or do they manage their own media presence?  

Since they aren't showing up to Josh's trial do you think they'll show up Thursday when another court is ruling on the victims lawsuit against the county (?) for the improper redactions?

Since there's money involved, JB might be there.

[gustava]

55 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Glory Light Baptist

I've heard of foot washin' Baptists, Primitive Baptists, First Baptists, Southern Baptists, Independent Baptists.....but NEVER Light Baptists😁

[Bluebirdbluebell]

59 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

likely meaning Glory Light Baptist. 

The Duggars go to Gospel Light Baptist church not Glory Light Baptist.

[mpheels]

I’m sure someone else has thought about this at some point in the past, but it just occurred to me that the timeline of the Howlers births coincided with Josh’s abusive behavior as a teenager. I have to wonder if JB and Michelle took that run of boys as a sign that it was OK to keep having babies because they were only being given babies that would be “safe” (in their minds). 

[Beermeet]

30 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Sure

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-neuroscientist-who-discovered-he-was-a-psychopath-180947814/

 

Very interesting. 

I kind of feel like that time my dad ( while discussing religion, we have a "good discussion" relationship)  asked me "what if the worst of the worst, Hitler even, had zero consequences after death?  Even welcomed into heaven by God"   I was a believer of the Catholic faith at the time ( he was protestant and once wanted to be a missionary in HS, but was over it by then) and that challenge of thought messed with my mind and my view of what I had been taught.  It opened my mind, that question is ultimately responsible for my interest of culture and religion,  why I landed up here.  

After reading that and hearing every one here, other articles recently shared, life experiences, everything on the subject; what if it can be prevented and a lot of people could become the monster.  We just don't want to believe it.  Just like it can be unfathomable our actions here on Earth don't matter one little bit.  Food for thought, at least. 

[Hera]

14 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

Very interesting. 

I kind of feel like that time my dad ( while discussing religion, we have a "good discussion" relationship)  asked me "what if the worst of the worst, Hitler even, had zero consequences after death?  Even welcomed into heaven by God"   I was a believer of the Catholic faith at the time ( he was protestant and once wanted to be a missionary in HS, but was over it by then) and that challenge of thought messed with my mind and my view of what I had been taught.  It opened my mind, that question is ultimately responsible for my interest of culture and religion,  why I landed up here.  

After reading that and hearing every one here, other articles recently shared, life experiences, everything on the subject; what if it can be prevented and a lot of people could become the monster.  We just don't want to believe it.  Just like it can be unfathomable our actions here on Earth don't matter one little bit.  Food for thought, at least. 

What made me start moving away from religion was the realization of sort of the opposite - that per the church of my childhood, Anne Frank, a child who had done no wrong and was brutally murdered by a horrific government (this was back when even conservative Christians agreed Nazis were bad) would have gone to hell because she wasn’t saved. It sat so wrong with me that I just … well, that realization and how utterly fucked it was was the thing made me just, I don’t know, see it all for the ridiculousness and hatefulness it is. And once you start to see it, you can’t unsee it. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Hera
Formatting

[onekidanddone]

42 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Since there's money involved, JB might be there.

Who gets the money? I’m sure JB has found a way to get his grubby greasy paws on whatever he can get off his daughter’s pain. Maybe not from Jill though since she now knows him as the snake he is. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

Who gets the money? I’m sure JB has found a way to get his grubby greasy paws on whatever he can get off his daughter’s pain. Maybe not from Jill though since she now knows him as the snake he is. 

I don't know - I've been away for a bit so Idk if it was discussed on one of the other Duggar threads.  

Legally though they are all adults and the courts aren't TLC so any payouts will go to the women and if JB gets any of it it's because they turned it over.

[smittykins]

49 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

The Duggars go to Gospel Light Baptist church not Glory Light Baptist.

Do the Duggars not “home church” anymore?

[Peaches-n-Beans]

Re non offending pedophiles, I remember years and years ago listening to this segment on NPR 

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/522/tarred-and-feathered

the second act covers pedophiles, and from what I remember (now I haven’t listened to the episode in the seven years since it aired) there was a part where they talk to the leader of support group for pedophiles who did not want to offend and were holding each other and themselves accountable. I do t know what became of the members or anything beyond my vague recollection of the episode but I do recall it being an interesting listen.  

[Beermeet]

14 minutes ago, Hera said:

What made me start moving away from religion was the realization of sort of the opposite - that per the church of my childhood, Anne Frank, a child who had done no wrong and was brutally murdered by a horrific government (this was back when even conservative Christians agreed Nazis were bad) would have gone to hell because she wasn’t saved. It sat so wrong with me that I just … well, that realization and how utterly fucked it was was the thing made me just, I don’t know, see it all for the ridiculousness and hatefulness it is. And once you start to see it, you can’t unsee it. 

That was the thing for me. I had questions, lots of them and most of all, why does He let children suffer.  No one can make sense of it. My family and the clergy I would ask on occasion when brave enough always pointed me to faith or we can't understand His ways.  So, no answer.  To hear the opposite, if the extra bad humans had no consequences,  no big punishment of any sort, well!  Damn. I wanted to see what other religions thought.  Maybe that's why plenty of believers still sin their asses off. Maybe "we" subconsciously, inherently, don't believe in he'll like that. I mean, apparently seriously religious folks need to be reminded very frequently to be decent and make a show of it and mainly be reminded of the threat daily.  

[livinginthelight]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Sure

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-neuroscientist-who-discovered-he-was-a-psychopath-180947814/

 

Here is an hour long YouTube lecture by this same guy. I just watched it. Very interesting. Tells his story and talks a lot about nature/nurture. It's part 1 - not sure where part 2 is.

He is very open about his lack of caring for other people. He's learned to be nicer by watching  what his friends do but he doesn't actually feel any connection. It's exhausting for him to be kind, but he does it because he knows that's what he's supposed to do. Pretty fascinating.

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by livinginthelight

[justmy2cents]

2 hours ago, FiveAcres said:

I am speculating that the blanket training that Jim Bob and Michelle are suspected to have employed with their children is the reason for the weird passivity of the Duggar offspring. Why initiate if it might lead to punishment? I also wonder if Josh was responsible for "blanket training" his younger siblings. If he had some dubious tendencies towards enjoying the sufferings of others, he was probably overjoyed when he graduated to being the inflictor rather than the receiver. The joy would have been powerfully reinforcing, emphasing his tendencies. 

 

Not sure Josh would have been blanket trained since JB & M started following Gothard when he was closer to 2 yo. But I agree if he was responsible for blanket training he probably took a sick pleasure in doing it.

[LilMissMetaphor]

I find it curious that people say Josh looks like an alcoholic/drug user.  IMO he looks just like a relative of mine who eats terribly (fast food daily, oversize portions, nothing unprocessed ever), has constantly interrupted sleep, and spends much too much time in front of a computer.  That's really all it takes to make you look like crap.  

[front hugs > duggs]

During a Hebrew Talmud study once, I learned about a concept that out of being All-Good, All-Knowing, and All-Powerful, God can only be two out of three (ex: if he knew bad was going to happen and didn’t stop it, he can’t be all good; if he was all good and all powerful, and bad things still happen, he can’t be all knowing; etc.). This has still resonated with me almost a decade later, even if just as a really interesting (to me) theory. 

[Beermeet]

7 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

During a Hebrew Talmud study once, I learned about a concept that out of being All-Good, All-Knowing, and All-Powerful, God can only be two out of three (ex: if he knew bad was going to happen and didn’t stop it, he can’t be all good; if he was all good and all powerful, and bad things still happen, he can’t be all knowing; etc.). This has still resonated with me almost a decade later, even if just as a really interesting (to me) theory. 

Judaism never fails to provoke thought and different angles.  TY for sharing that concept. 

[luv2laugh]

I still can't get over this. I can't get over that not only is Josh a pedo, that was a shock for me but the shock wore off after what we learned in April--- but he is a sadistic pedo who enjoys watching those unable to consent to suffer, and that this man has 7 children.  I can't get over that Anna, after learning all of this information (she hasn't seen the images but can we assume she has at least read the graphic descriptions of them?) is not deeply disturbed.  She has to know this was not Matt Waller... If Anna told JB & Michelle that she was creeped out and needed to stay at their home with the kids and live separately from Josh until she had clarity on what the facts were, I feel JB & Michelle would allow a separation for awhile. But she hasn't. She walks into court arm in arm like a puppy clinging to him for dear life.

Edited December 6, 2021 by luv2laugh

[JermajestyDuggar]

25 minutes ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

I find it curious that people say Josh looks like an alcoholic/drug user.  IMO he looks just like a relative of mine who eats terribly (fast food daily, oversize portions, nothing unprocessed ever), has constantly interrupted sleep, and spends much too much time in front of a computer.  That's really all it takes to make you look like crap.  

I’ve met a lot of drug and alcohol users in my life and I would agree that it could just be an unhealthy lifestyle. I can see what people are saying about his swollen face but I’ve come across plenty of long time alcohol abusers with very thin pale faces too. I suppose it just depends on the person and how much they are using. With Josh, I doubt he could get away with extensive daily alcohol use when he’s constantly around abstainers. They smell it. And any whiff of alcohol on his breath is not ok with the Duggars. I bet he has been drunk before when away from family for longer periods of time. But daily alcohol use probably isn’t going to happen. Especially now that he lives with the Rebers. I do think he probably lives a very unhealthy lifestyle and that contributes a lot to his looks. 

[Hera]

Yeah, Josh looks like a middle aged dude who eats too much processed garbage and doesn’t exercise to me. Absent hardcore drug use, in my experience people his age, even serious but functional drinkers, don’t show the obvious physical effects yet.