Two Women Murdered Outside Moab, Utah

[Howl]

The Gabby Petito missing person case brought a spotlight to the murder of two women outside of Moab, Utah. 

On August 18, a friend found the newly married couple (Kylen Schulte, 24, and Crystal Turner, 38) murdered near their campsite in the La Sal Mountains outside of Moab. Both women had been shot multiple times and their partially clothed bodies were found in a creek.  One of the murdered women had texted a  friend about a creepy, intimidating man near their campsite and if something happened to them, they were murdered. 

The couple were last seen in Moab on August 13, and a friend drove up to their campsite to check in on them on August 18, presumably because they were overdue at work/had stopped texting. 

The odd connection is that the original interaction between Gabby and Brian that led a bystander to call police took place in front of Moonflower Community Cooperative (food co-op), where one of the murdered women worked as a cashier. 

A month on, the Moab community mourns murdered couple: Local businesses offer reward, memorial service held Friday

Although absolutely clogged with tourists for a lot of the year, Moab is a very small town.  This sure as hell would put a damper on camping in the La Sals to escape the heat and I'm sure is still terrifying for locals, many of whom are outdoors oriented. 

Police at this point don't think there is a connection to Gabby's disappearance, although it was looked at carefully. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Coconut Flan

[Howl]

So sad and disconcerting that  two months have passed since this horrific crime and there are  zero leads or updates on who committed it. 

And scary.  We've done a lot of dispersed camping in National Forests in the past and it seemed perfectly safe.  Now...not so much. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Howl

[zee_four]

On 9/19/2021 at 3:24 AM, Howl said:

The Gabby Petito missing person case brought a spotlight to the murder of two women outside of Moab, Utah. 

On August 18, a friend found the newly married couple (Kylen Schulte, 24, and Crystal Turner, 38) murdered near their campsite in the La Sal Mountains outside of Moab. Both women had been shot multiple times and their partially clothed bodies were found in a creek.  One of the murdered women had texted a  friend about a creepy, intimidating man near their campsite and if something happened to them, they were murdered. 

The couple were last seen in Moab on August 13, and a friend drove up to their campsite to check in on them on August 18, presumably because they were overdue at work/had stopped texting. 

The odd connection is that the original interaction between Gabby and Brian that led a bystander to call police took place in front of Moonflower Community Cooperative (food co-op), where one of the murdered women worked as a cashier. 

A month on, the Moab community mourns murdered couple: Local businesses offer reward, memorial service held Friday

Although absolutely clogged with tourists for a lot of the year, Moab is a very small town.  This sure as hell would put a damper on camping in the La Sals to escape the heat and I'm sure is still terrifying for locals, many of whom are outdoors oriented. 

Police at this point don't think there is a connection to Gabby's disappearance, although it was looked at carefully. 

Thank you for posting this.

 

I do want to add some information to your last post. I do not believe the loxalbpolixe "looked at [the connection between Kylen and Crystal's sexually moreover murder and Gabby's disappearance, her body had not been found yet] carefully ".

 

The official Grand County SD announcement was within about a week or so. There is no way in hell a filled trained, staffed, experienced and professional staff like the FBI could have determined without a doubt that there was not a connection between two unsolved and very few brutal murders of women in a very isolated area  close in time. 

 

I, like much of the local Moab/Spanish Valley community, didn't believe there was a connection, due to the timing and location. That said the fact that Grand County said they had without a doubt proved no connection in that short time with no further details and were adamant about making the announcement so publicized, it was reported mire widely than anything about Kylen and Crystal murderers prior?

 

GCSD couldn't even find Kylen and Crystals bodies. I'm not making this shir up. They refused to look for the missing women and didn't take their mission person's report seriously. Then they claimed they searched and didn't find them. Fruends and family Cruelly eeent our and searched and found their bodies. They weren't far at all off La Sal Mountain Loop Road.

 

GCSD and MPD didn't do shit. They can't even control DV and DUI the main crimes in the area. Trust me my ex almost me in 2019 in Moab and after cracking my skull open he was s too drunk to drag me out of the house and called the cops to do it for him. One cop filed won't DV charges I was 4 months pregnant and my ex's 17 year old was down the hall in the trailer. He got out of jail within hours and since there's no local prosecutor some guy in SLC was the "prosecutor" and refused to talk to me, the victims advocate lied and the probably 1000 texts I sent about the graphic details of his abuse, the threats I got after he was released ROR, 4tc and said the prosecutor knew and would be making charges. Nope. Prosecutor never got the info and went ahead and dropped the charges saying that its clear I was emotional and making things up.

 

MY ex has a massive record of DUIs, assaults DV etc. I miscarried the next day because of the abuse at over 4 months. The small Moab Hospital made me wait for hours refused to look at my head injury which I was complaining about because I was literally blaming out for hours at a time, my vision was blurred, I had a hard time talking etc. Finally a nurse came in said your fetus is unviable on a cold indifferent tone and left. I followed her out begging for help and I guess I had a straight up meltdown in the hospital because next thing I remember is being on the concrete floor of a jail cell.

 

I wasn't arrested I wasn't charged with a crime I was on an indefinite "mental health hold". The two cops at the jail (there's like 4 cells. Aybe) taunted me the whole time. I scream ed in pain and cried and dry heaved begging for a doctor for any help as I miscarried alone, locked in a jail cell for no crime except being the victim of DV. It was horrific I was in and out of consciousness I guess I finally passed out so long they came to let me out because I "learned to shut the fuck up". There was blood all over the concrete, the jail clothes they put on me and my regular clothes

 I could barely walk and they pushed me out the door. I almost passed out again but the only good cop the one who helped me the night before and arrested my ex and got me the PO sitting with me for hours after my ex was taken away convincing me to fill out the PO because he said if not he knew I'd be dead by Christmas.

Anyway yeah, ex has nothing on his record during his 6 month unsupervised probation he drove home wasted from the only bar in town (this was after the Rio closed so only Woody's) everynight just like he did before.

 

The GCSD and MPD are like all near by rural are cops in UT and western CO. An old boys club, ignoring or more likely perpetuating and enabling DV, rape and other sexual violence against women and they get away with it all the time. They have no specialized training, don't investigate rape, there's no SANE kits offered, the kniw all the alcoholics who drive every night and don't pull them over. .

 

 

There's no way in hell they thoroughly investigated a case the FBI was still at the beginning of with few to no answers. Their adamantly announcing to the world media there is no connection nothing to see here, move along. Suspicious as all hell.

 

(Reposted in the Gabby murder case thread)

[Howl]

Update (Oct. 14): A private investigator is working the case pro bono: 

Private Investigator Believes Satellite Images Could Be Critical In Solving Moab Newlywed's Double Homicide   Private investigator Jason Jensen is also hoping help from the public could help solve the double homicide of Crystal Turner and Kylen Schulte.

Quote

“We’re hoping that satellite imagery in Moab will reveal a car in their camp area, at least a color, if (we’re) not be able from skyward to notice the make and model,” Jensen told Oxygen.com. According to Jensen, investigators used similar imaging to be able to determine where Lori Vallow’s children had been buried last year on Chad Daybell’s property, in another case that has captured the public’s fascination.

He’s hoping it could be a useful tool in learning more about the mysterious figure who had allegedly been camping near the women before they were killed and said even if the images only revealed the color of the vehicle, it could give investigators more to work with.

Jensen is working this case hard.  Might he be an ex police investigator or ex FBI?

Quote

Jensen said he's developed a “list of persons of interest” through his own investigation and talking with Schulte’s father, Sean-Paul Schulte, who ran a “clue booth” in a Moab park to gather potential leads in the case.

“Sometimes they went to police. Other times, you know, there’s plenty of people out there that don’t like to talk to police for various reasons,” he said of the tips they’d received.

It's also thought the "creepy guy"/murderer, was camping in the area from August 11 on. 

I hope this case gets enough traction to make it to one of the national news shows, maybe profiled on Good Morning America or other shows or featured in People magazine,  or SOMETHING. 

And one more thing: They were dispersed camping on Forest Service land, meaning people are allowed to camp wherever (as opposed to developed camp grounds) for a limited period of time, typically two weeks, before they have to leave or relocate to another area/new campsite.  The Forest Service has to monitor this, typically with a permit of some type.  I don't know how the Forest Service doesn't have information on the creepy guy, or a ranger or other Forest Service employee didn't notice something.  

Edited October 25, 2021 by Howl

[zee_four]

12 hours ago, Howl said:

Update (Oct. 14): A private investigator is working the case pro bono: 

Private Investigator Believes Satellite Images Could Be Critical In Solving Moab Newlywed's Double Homicide   Private investigator Jason Jensen is also hoping help from the public could help solve the double homicide of Crystal Turner and Kylen Schulte.

Jensen is working this case hard.  Might he be an ex police investigator or ex FBI?

It's also thought the "creepy guy"/murderer, was camping in the area from August 11 on. 

I hope this case gets enough traction to make it to one of the national news shows, maybe profiled on Good Morning America or other shows or featured in People magazine,  or SOMETHING. 

And one more thing: They were dispersed camping on Forest Service land, meaning people are allowed to camp wherever (as opposed to developed camp grounds) for a limited period of time, typically two weeks, before they have to leave or relocate to another area/new campsite.  The Forest Service has to monitor this, typically with a permit of some type.  I don't know how the Forest Service doesn't have information on the creepy guy, or a ranger or other Forest Service employee didn't notice something.  

There's actually very little USFS land in the area. Most of the SE Utah area is BLM  (Bureau of Land Management), a tiny bit BIA/Navajo (Diné) Nation (Bureau of Indian Affairs) or some NPS (National Parks Service) in Arches and Canyonlands but predominately BLM which has far less oversize. The same goes for Western Colorado which is included in the local BLM district which currently has a small office in Moab with a main one over in Junction. 

The Manti La Sal Nqtion Forest main district site is all the way up near Ephraim which is between Price and Provo way way north and a little west. There's a small NSFS office in Moab as well I used to live behind it on the south side of town just north of Spanish Valley/the San Juan County line on the west side of 191 along the Moab Rim. Theres on in Monticello too but that mostly covers east of Monticello into Cortez and the surrounding area in Colorado. 

Before I got railroaded on a drug charge my goal was to work for the USFS as a hydrologer/ranger. They are wildly underfunded, during Trump there was talk of closing down both the BLM and USFS offices in Moab and use on Junction and Price Canyon one. There are not a lot of rangers and they get very busy with the huge number of tourists in the area. Every weekend people from Denver and the ski towns come to Moab, over 1 million people moved just to the Denver metro in the last 10 years and Moab has become the "it" place to go especially in the Spring and Fall during the mountain mud seasons  There's constantly massive numbers of people camping and hiking and what have you and causing problems. Theres also been a huge influx in the whole #vanlife among the Gen Z/millennial outdoorsy types, so there's been an exponential increase in the number of long and short term transient types in these areas. Mid summer is busier than it ever was although the CO mtns and the Wasatch Front attract a lot of people away from the high heat but the end of August is when it starts to get real busy again like in the Spring. 

 

There's very few USFS resources in the Moab area, the office is tiny, because si much of the land is BLM. The bulk of the USFS land and therefore meager resources are north bear Price Canyon and Provo and south/southeast from Monticello/La Sal into the San Juan with Telluride, Ouray, etc.

 

There are so many sketchy weird guys passing through I honest to God would say they outnumber the non sketchy transients and campers. No exaggeration. The girls were last seen at Woodys the only actual bar in town where locals hang out (the rest are restaurants which have to close their bars way earlier because Utah- and are expensive, The Rio was once the other bar when I lived there but it was shut down in Winter 2019 for lots of reasons many sketchy) Thats where they said they said the weird sketchy guy. I used to be out everynight and all the locals know exactly other. We almost all work service industry so when you get off between 10-11 pm everyone goes to Woody's to get after shift drinks and close the bar down at 1 am because Utah. They have machines that dispense all hard liquor and record it and shut off at 1:00 am on the dot no getting around it, no doubles, etc. 

 

Anyway almost nightly I was hit on by strange weird guys some a lot more icky than others. Some told me what nasty sexual violations they wanted to do, others would insist on buying me drinks, etc. I was friends with almost all the bartenders and then eventually my life was so consumed with my super abusive boyfriend who I had to sit with everynight as he got wasted after work and closed the bar and I had to pay his tab, I didn't get approached as much. But before he would show up? Yep. Or if I went to the bathroom or inside to grab a round? Yep.

 

The transient nature and number of campers, vans and people passing through would be almost impossible to track, especially with all the windy side roads and dirt roads and open BLM land. Even if the USFS and BLM were funded even just a little bit better, their existing employees are caught up on permit filing, monitoring specific campsites and trails usually near town and trying to stop campfire violations and those kinds of offenses.

 

For an area that's among the most traveled so to speak among all the really rural areas (thanks to the La Sal Loop Road) its kind of known as being even less monitored than other places because of the jurisdictional issues, its NPS, USFS and BLM and mixed up in there and the road drives in and out and in and out of different jurisdictions.

 

They're even less capable of doing something that like than the local authorities and that's saying a lot. However there's much less corruption than the local authority too so at least there's that. 

 

But yeah with so many creepy transient guys, in such a rural unmonitored area where sexual violence against women isn't taken seriously in the slightest there's no way this could have been stopped once it was in play sadly. The sexual violence against women needs national consistent focus at the systemic issues that allow it and these types of men need to be stopped with their first crimes. They always have a laundry list of assaults, DUIs, DV but are always allowed to revictimize. This country thinks being a drug addict and/or selling dime bags to willing addicts is a horrific crime against humanity but beating, raping and abusing women is at most, a small mistake but usually just a crazy bitch overreacting and God forbid we let that ruin a man's life. 

 

The fucking police didn't even care enough to look for Kylen and Crystal. They were off one of the "main" roass for campsites and it took us as friends and family to organize a search to find their bodies. That's beyond reprehensible to me. That's probably why they were so insistent Gabbys disappearance wasn't connected they didn't want the feds who would inevitably come in because of a young, white, cis het, blonde woman from the East Coast and see all the cover ups and corruption and BS that goes on in Moab and GCSD, San Juan CSD, hell even Garfield and Mesa and Eagle CSDs on the Colorado side of the border. They might be forced to actually try to investigate the murder, it was just two poor dykes to them who cares. ***

 

*** ofc I don't believe that but thats truly how some of these backwards old boys clubs that make up county Sherrifs and small town police in these rural western areas, in areas with money from tourism that just means more cover ups to bit scare away tourists and to help themselves and resources to abuse not use 

 

[Howl]

I did pass through Moab a time or two before it was "discovered", which roughly coincided with the Raiders of the Lost Ark movie in 1981.  It was just a dumpy little no count town, supported by cattle ranching mostly; the uranium boom was over. The main drag in Moab was crazy busy the last time we were there, just mobbed with tourists.  Not pleasant. 

Still hoping that the murderer is tracked down soon, prosecuted and sent to prison for life. This can't be his first assault/murder.  

The pro bono investigator sounds skilled and focused; wishing him well. 

[Howl]

I think interest may be gradually building on this case, especially in Utah.  Maybe now that Brian Laundrie's remains have been found and there isn't any more compelling news on that front,  major news outlets will pick this up. 

Warrant seeks new information in Moab double homicide of Kylen Schulte, Crystal Turner

Oct. 3, East Idaho News  published this touching article: Unsolved murders and Petito case leave dark cloud over Moab

Kylen's father, Sean-Paul Schulte sitting at a picnic table in the town park in Moab: 

Quote

He brings cookies, flowers, pictures of his family, meticulously painted rocks, and two pairs of black boots from his daughter, Kylen Schulte, and her wife, Crystal Turner, who on Aug. 18 were found dead in the La Sal Mountains outside of town.

He also brings a clue box.

“There’s really only been two bogus ones,” he told the Deseret News, referring to the roughly 40 tips locals have brought him. “There was one point I was getting clues as fast as I could process them. But It’s been two days with no major clues or breakthroughs, so I think I might be done.”

This article also reports on Cindy Sue Hunter, who was determined to find the two women.  I'd assumed that Cindy Sue Hunter knew where they were camped and just went up to check on them, but that wasn't the case. She had to search and search until she located their campsite, and then spotted a body in the creek.  She didn't sleep for 10 days. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Howl

[Maggie Mae]

On 10/25/2021 at 6:22 AM, Howl said:

And one more thing: They were dispersed camping on Forest Service land, meaning people are allowed to camp wherever (as opposed to developed camp grounds) for a limited period of time, typically two weeks, before they have to leave or relocate to another area/new campsite.  The Forest Service has to monitor this, typically with a permit of some type.  I don't know how the Forest Service doesn't have information on the creepy guy, or a ranger or other Forest Service employee didn't notice something.  

National Forests are managed by the US Forest Services. I think they were camping on BLM (Bureau of Land Management) land. BLM is pretty much a "anything goes" kind of place, and even the established campgrounds are still often "self service" which means anyone can just pay the fee in cash and put in a fake name. Some campground managers might fill in license plate numbers if they left it blank but not all will bother. They were dispersed camping as well, and I get the impression that just anyone can pull up and camp anywhere, and there probably isn't anyone checking for permits as it's not a place like Denali National Park where you have to pass through a couple of check points and get a permit. You can just go and camp, like most of my state. And so can someone like Israel Keyes or Creepy McCreeperson or Tammy the Sketchy Meth Dealer. 

I find it strange how little information is out there about this case. 

I'm also a little weirded out about the age difference between Kaylen and Crystal. How did they meet? Did they live in Moab? The bartender said they were "regulars" but also said they only showed up once or twice a month. 

[Howl]

One of them (Kylen I think) worked in a little food co-op in Moab for four years.  I think (not sure) but she and Crystal had met there. 

Thanks for clarification re: camping.  I'm more familiar with Forest Service dispersed camping in SW Colorado.  In the Durango area dispersed camping is prohibited until you get quite a few miles out of town, far enough that it's not really convenient to drive into town to work every day. 

 There were bad scenes developing with marginal people group camping on a semi permanent basis with trash everywhere + polluting creeks with human waste.  It was a mess. Camping in La Plata Canyon was shut down completely for this reason and may still be.  Pretty sure the Forest people all of that carefully.  I'll be in SW CO  in a few days and will talk to my friends about the current scene. 

I'd assumed with the huge tourist scene, people working low-wage jobs in Moab with no way to afford living in town, the general attraction to the area that something similar was happening in the La Sals and was being managed with permits.  Sad that it isn't.  My direct experience with BLM had to do with cultural resource management as part of oil and gas prospecting in SE Utah,  in San Juan County.  We rarely did any work in Grand County. 

I do know when Moab first started being a tourist and climbing mecca,  BLM was caught flat footed and had zero plans in place to manage the influx, starting with climbers.  Then came mountain biking.  Four wheeling has always been big.  Maybe they've just never caught up. 

 

[zee_four]

On 10/26/2021 at 7:33 AM, Howl said:

I think interest may be gradually building on this case, especially in Utah.  Maybe now that Brian Laundrie's remains have been found and there isn't any more compelling news on that front,  major news outlets will pick this up. 

Warrant seeks new information in Moab double homicide of Kylen Schulte, Crystal Turner

Oct. 3, East Idaho News  published this touching article: Unsolved murders and Petito case leave dark cloud over Moab

Kylen's father, Sean-Paul Schulte sitting at a picnic table in the town park in Moab: 

This article also reports on Cindy Sue Hunter, who was determined to find the two women.  I'd assumed that Cindy Sue Hunter knew where they were camped and just went up to check on them, but that wasn't the case. She had to search and search until she located their campsite, and then spotted a body in the creek.  She didn't sleep for 10 days. 

I'm actually friends with Cindy Sue. There's a really active public Facebook group named "Remembering Kylen Schulte and Crystal Turner (Beck)" The direct link for anyone interested is behind the cut.

 

Spoiler

Link to Public FB Group

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1255222544943612/?ref=share

 

[Howl]

Brian Entin of News Nation is in Moab investigating the Schulte/Turner murders. 

Apparently he did an excellent job covering Petito/Laundrie and that raises hopes that this will become a national story covered by major media, bringing more attention and pressure to  investigate more deeply. 

[PoppyPeace]

5 hours ago, Howl said:

Brian Entin of News Nation is in Moab investigating the Schulte/Turner murders. 

Apparently he did an excellent job covering Petito/Laundrie and that raises hopes that this will become a national story covered by major media, bringing more attention and pressure to  investigate more deeply. 

I think you are right. I am feeling a bit uneasy with Brian Entin though. I do think he did a great job covering the Petito/Laundrie case, but I also feel like as soon as Laundrie was found and the story died a bit, he hoped to keep it alive, which brought him to follow Gabby's last days. I know he plans on doing a show to bring attention to other missing persons and I gather that is going to involve missing persons of color, etc, I decided to stop following him as often.  I don't dislike him, but I did need to take a break. Still, I truly hope that brings attention to this case and others. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

This influx of tourists and new residents in rural areas in Rocky Mountain States has been a big learning curve. Flagstaff, where I went to NAU, has seen devastating wildfires caused by the transient communities campfires. Payson and the surrounding area were devestated for years by dual fires started by an out of work firefighter and a lost hiker. The cost of living has jumped in areas dominated by low paying tourist and hospitality related jobs. My thoughts are with these women's families and all the missing women we aren't hearing about. 

[Howl]

2 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

This influx of tourists and new residents in rural areas in Rocky Mountain States has been a big learning curve.

I'm in SW Colorado right now looking for real estate and costs in this town of less than 10,000 people are insane.  here's a big influx of people who have been priced out of Durango and other towns like it.  

The only thing even remotely affordable is an undeveloped double lot in a very mixed, mostly trailers,  neighborhood.  I saw it Sunday and will try to sign a contract tomorrow.   First I'm going to the police dept early tomorrow to check and see if there are any problem houses nearby in the neighborhood. 

I saw a literal shack in a little town 10 miles away listed for $499,000.  

Edited November 2, 2021 by Howl

[zee_four]

On 11/1/2021 at 2:25 PM, Howl said:

I'm in SW Colorado right now looking for real estate and costs in this town of less than 10,000 people are insane.  here's a big influx of people who have been priced out of Durango and other towns like it.  

The only thing even remotely affordable is an undeveloped double lot in a very mixed, mostly trailers,  neighborhood.  I saw it Sunday and will try to sign a contract tomorrow.   First I'm going to the police dept early tomorrow to check and see if there are any problem houses nearby in the neighborhood. 

I saw a literal shack in a little town 10 miles away listed for $499,000.  

I grew up in Eagle County CO and have lived in Moab, Junction, Leadville and Buena Vista. I ADORE Durango. My dad, who is Native Hawaiian (like indigenous Polynesian) went to Vietnam and after the army didn't go right back to the islands. He moved to Avon, CO in the early 1970s and bought the tiny 2 bedroom 2 bathroom apartmenr/condo me and my brothers were raised in for $10k. Its a town 12 miles west of Vail about 30 miles north of Leadville which the railroad through there ran through Avon which was the main thing outside ranching, lettuce growing (though that was dying out the area that is now Beaver Creek and Bachelors Gulch ski resorts were once lettuce farms in the late 19th and early 20th century) Vail had only opened much smaller than it is now, no more than 5 years before and it would be almost 10 before Beaver Creek opened its first lift. He sold it in the late 90s for over $300k. Since then Avon and Minturn prices have skyrocketed as the rich people from Vail and Beaver Creek are forced down mountain and valley because of the need for space.

 

All of Western CO is out of control for COL and house and land prices except like Junction and Craig. My dad said it started in the 70s when all the rich Texans and Hollywood celebrities types started buying their fancy big ranches in places like Carbondale, Telluride, crested Butte and areas outside existing ski areas, which was the first time a lot of money went into these rural areas. It was so bad in the late 70s early 80s before the economy haulted my dad said you'd see "If God wanted Texans to ski He would have made bullshit white " and other derogatory slurs and statements written in bathroom stalls, walls, lockers on ski hills, bumper stickers etc.

 

Things picked back up in the 90s and while the Front Range was dealing with an influx of California's into cookie cutter developments and suburban sprawl,  in the mountains first the ski town and adjacent areas began to boom in population. All the well off privileged kids who moved to these areas after college to be trustifarian type ski bums decided to stay. The ones who started buying homes has access to money outside their minimum wage paychecks from restaurants and ski instructing and combined with the factors from earlier that were sitll going on prices skyrocketed. Areas that were once trailer parks with working class Latinos became new developments to keep up. Avon where I grew up has a year round population like at least 4 times bigger than when I was a kid. Eagle and Gypsum down on the east side of Glenwood Canyon are  like 5-6 times bigger with neighborhoods that look like they're from Highlands Ranch. Bedroom communities for ski towns became expensive upper middle class places, quirky little towns with old houses from the mining Era like Minturn that once held local wotking class families have now been bought and either torn down and rebuilt or totally remodeled into million dollar properties like you're seeing in Denver.

Except the people doing this aren't second home owners or out if state people looking for  vacation  homes and extra property.  This is their kids now in their 30s 40s and even 50s, who are transplants who claim they're locals and they live and work fulltime. Their wages wouldn't allow them to afford their houses and properties though and many co sign with parents have trust funds (and yes a small trust fund you can only live like "a year max" off of frugally is still a trust fund, yea I've heard that excuse from some of these people) etc. And the COL and housing prices continue to skrocket.

Then we hit the 2010s. This is when Denver gentrified like crazy and 1 million new residents moved to the Denver metro area alone between then and now. This is when the towns outside ski areas, not bedroom communities that are still growing, but I'm talking places like Buena Vista and Salida and the surrounding land, Silverton, Dolores, Bayfield, South Fork, etc. Tiny rural areas outside tiny towns. A lot of baby boomers are retiring and they don't need to work so they can make places without well paying jobs or even jobs at all. They cans sell their house in California or New York for just under a million and that's "middle to upper middle' class. Tiny houses on less than 1/4 acre in Salida on the south side of 24 not anywhere near the Arkansas River with like 2 beds 2 baths tops were going for over $400k when I last was staying in Buena Vista. People who live and work in these towns cannot afford their homes anymore. The result of retirees on prices is some of the worst because unlike Vail or Telluride where there's tons of work but the COL is so crazy high with the low wages most of these jobs have you can't afford it, these areas don't even have jobs to begin with! Whatever work has been small like ranching, commuting to larger towns, etc.these locals are to quote JRod SEVERELY impacted.

 

Thars all bad enough but COVID made things even worse. It seems like in general, those who have good paying jobs with benefits are those most likely to be able to work remotely. Those with lower paying jobs have to work in person. So even more disparity was added with quarantine. It was made worse when all these relatively privileged individuals decided they were going to move to Aspen, Hawai'i, Ouray, places they vacation and their AirBnBs and vacation homes have already upped housing prices but the fact that the really high paying jobs aren't available in these areas have kept these people living in cities and suburbs fulltime. 

Now that they can work from wherever, they're pricing the working class locals who have lost so much work because restaurants are closed, there's no new construction, hotels are closed for maids and front desk and everyone else. Most of these COVID transplants shop online too they contribute nothing to the local economy except raising housing costs even higher. Thanks Karens.

 

So 50 years of transplants coming in and raising housing costs and overall COL has reached a fever pitch. I couldn't afford to stay thus the moving around, even though I always come back home to try. .

 

On 10/26/2021 at 8:43 AM, Maggie Mae said:

National Forests are managed by the US Forest Services. I think they were camping on BLM (Bureau of Land Management) land. BLM is pretty much a "anything goes" kind of place, and even the established campgrounds are still often "self service" which means anyone can just pay the fee in cash and put in a fake name. Some campground managers might fill in license plate numbers if they left it blank but not all will bother. They were dispersed camping as well, and I get the impression that just anyone can pull up and camp anywhere, and there probably isn't anyone checking for permits as it's not a place like Denali National Park where you have to pass through a couple of check points and get a permit. You can just go and camp, like most of my state. And so can someone like Israel Keyes or Creepy McCreeperson or Tammy the Sketchy Meth Dealer. 

I find it strange how little information is out there about this case. 

I'm also a little weirded out about the age difference between Kaylen and Crystal. How did they meet? Did they live in Moab? The bartender said they were "regulars" but also said they only showed up once or twice a month. 

The age difference was kind of eh. There's something about places like ski towns, Moab, outdoorsy areas, that are Neverlands. My friend group has always been 20s-50s some guys are even in their 60s. We work the same jobs, do the same activities , date and sleep with the same people, etc. In my early 20s I regularly dated guys in their 40s and it wasn't that weird. They weren't guys or girls (though I only sleep with and date guys myself) that were married at 22, worked their way up a corporate job ladder, had 2 kiss who are now teenagers and lived in the burbs, suddenly dating girls just over their daughters age. Nope those generational and experiential gaps that make it weird aren't there. I cant explain it very well but age differences like that are more than norm than an outlier in outdoorsy touristy areas. Having four guys in their 40s and 50s, who are single or dating, teach snowboarding for a living and have a hot tub in their living room is normal not weird for an example. 

 

Kylen worked at MoonflowerCo-op a grocery co-op in town. Crystal worked at McDonald's actually. They both worked part time and camped and hiked and everything else in their spare time. They weren't paying rent they didn't need to work that much.

Again that's not out of the norm especially in places like Moab, Buena Vista/Salida Colorado in the summer, places where you can camp. Ski towns its leas common but you can't live outside in the Rockies in winter (though the #vanlife thing is advancing even into that climate) Hell my first month in Moab I lived in a tent, just me and my big German Shepherd, near Castle Valley. Right at the small camping area south of Priest and Nuns (red rock formation super popular for rock climbing) I felt completely safe, I worked at night drove back to my tent about 30 minutes drive along 128 and the Colorado River mostly from the restaurant I worked in on the south side of Moab. In retrospect I'm fortunate to have not had any issues. Alvin my dog helped. When I decided to stay I looked for housing though.

They met just being in the same kind of transient social group. Not uncommon at all, for awhile thats how I met all my boyfriends, one night stands and my son's father/ex fiance who walked out on me like 2 days before our wedding (not bitter still promise >.>) the mountain and the local bars where everyone knows everyone

 it's a different culture forbsure.

On 11/1/2021 at 10:16 AM, PoppyPeace said:

I think you are right. I am feeling a bit uneasy with Brian Entin though. I do think he did a great job covering the Petito/Laundrie case, but I also feel like as soon as Laundrie was found and the story died a bit, he hoped to keep it alive, which brought him to follow Gabby's last days. I know he plans on doing a show to bring attention to other missing persons and I gather that is going to involve missing persons of color, etc, I decided to stop following him as often.  I don't dislike him, but I did need to take a break. Still, I truly hope that brings attention to this case and others. 

My issue is that Kylen and Crystal disappeared and were found murdered before Gabby disappeared and before Brian was pulled over north of town by Utah Highway Patrol.  If he cared so much about it he shouldn't have put Gabby first.  I understand even if I don't like why National and outside news did it. But local news should have focuses on the local girls and local crime. It infuriates me.

[Howl]

I follow a facebook page for the Kylen/Crystal murders. There has been exactly zero progress on the case, or at least anything that LEO wants to share. 

There are strong efforts to get a personality with a TV show or national following interested like Dog the Bounty Hunter, America's Most Wanted, Nancy Grace, anyone to bring more attention. 

A private investigator donated time and the father of one of the women is still in Moab, trying to keep the story alive. 

One odd offshoot on fb and reddit is a firm belief by some people that Brian Laundrie is the murderer.  One of the murdered women worked at the Moonflower food co-op in Moab and is thought to have witnessed the DV scene between Gabby Petito and Brian Laundrie that took place on the sidewalk in front of the Moonflower. 

Apparently, the night Laundrie was put up in a hotel in Moab is within the time frame the women were murdered.  Of course, Gabby had the van so he had no transportation...some of the reasoning gets very convoluted. 

Other people think a guy named Colt did it. Colt was cleared early on, but again, others remain convinced he's the perp.   They identify Colt by first and last name and post photos of him on facebook, which seems dangerously libelous to me.  I have zero idea if Colt is aware of online speculation about him as a murderer. 

It seems there would have to be DNA but perhaps there was no match in a database. 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Howl

[Howl]

Well, a little good news! Police now have persons of interest in Moab double murder case

Quote

MOAB, Utah — The Grand County Sheriff’s Office says they have several persons of interest in the Moab double murder of Kylen Schulte and Crystal Turner.  However, they say online speculation is hindering their investigation. And they’re asking the people of Moab to be more careful about what they post on social media.

While there may be persons of interest, officials from the Grand County Sheriff’s Office say they haven’t narrowed their focus to one specific suspect.  They posted a statement to their Facebook page saying they’re still getting help from the FBI to analyze forensic evidence, videos and behavior analysis.

The statement reads, “GCSO continues to examine and analyze evidence by utilizing third-party and FBI crime labs.”

The Sean-Paul Schulte, the father of Kylen Schulte, is in Moab and keeps a facebook page open for people to offer tips, but wants people to stop speculating about Brian Laundrie and John Freeman Colt as possible murderers.  Both have been completely ruled out by law enforcement. 

Please let this be solved soon and the murderer rapist brought to justice.   It's such a brutal, horrific crime and the longer the perp is loose, there's a possibility he could strike again and more innocent women will die.  

 

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Howl

[Howl]

It's been confirmed by the medical examiner that no sexual assaults took place. 

[Howl]

This is the first movement towards identifying a suspect since it was announced a month ago that persons of interest have been identified. 

This particular article would not name the suspect, but a search warrant was served on a 27-year-old man currently living out of his car in the Moab area. 

Unsealed search warrant reveals possible suspect in Moab murders

Text of article in the spoiler: 

Spoiler

MOAB, Utah (ABC4) –  A newly unsealed search warrant has revealed a possible suspect in the double murder of two Moab women.

Kylen Schulte and Crystal Turner were brutally murdered while camping near the La Sal Loop Road in August 2021. Their killer has yet to be found.

But in a newly unsealed document, authorities have questioned one man from the very beginning.   ABC4 will not release the name of this person because he has not been arrested nor charged by the Grand County attorney

The search warrant claimed the 27-year-old was pulled over on August 17, a day after the two women were reported missing.  A sheriff’s deputy stopped him on a routine traffic stop.  The man is from out of state but now lives in Moab.  According to the deputy, the person was “unnerving” for someone who had been pulled over for speeding.

They soon learned the 27-year-old routinely sleeps in his vehicle. 

One person told authorities that he often “makes unwanted advances towards women and makes them feel uneasy.”

A previously released search warrant indicated that Schulte and Turner told friends of a “creepy” man visiting them prior to their disappearance.

The man was questioned further a couple of days later and was asked if he knew the two women.  He said he had “seen (Kylen) in the Moon Flower regularly.”  He was vague in his response when asked about his interactions with her, according to the warrant.

The deputy was of the impression that the 27-year-old was “mentally ill.”

He did tell the deputy that he “didn’t know” they were married and said he had “nothing against gay people.”   When asked if he killed the two women he said “No.”

When asked about his whereabouts on those nights in August, the 27-year-old said he couldn’t recall where he was at.  He did tell the deputy that he would “often sleep out in the open” by himself including along the La Sal Loop Road. That’s near the area where the two women were killed.

Authorities also found two blankets and a jacket with “blood” on it at his campsite.

Another cellphone was also found at the campsite belonging to the two women.  It did not belong to them, according to deputies.  [To clarify the last two sentences: a cellphone was found at Kylen and Crystal's campsite that did not belong to them.]

Currently, this man has no criminal history in Grand County and he was never arrested for the double murders.

 

[Howl]

This article has more details about the suspect; turns out he had been hired at the Moonflower Food Co-op where Kylen worked just a few days before the murders and also admitted to having seen Crystal and Kylen at the McDonalds where Crystal worked, but denied having killed the women. 

A few hours before the bodies were found, a veteran deputy stopped the guy (not a suspect at that point) for speeding and was so unnerved by the suspect's affect that he didn't write up a speeding ticket because he didn't want to take his eyes off the guy.  "The warrant said the deputy felt the man 'acted oddly for being pulled over for speeding almost a combination of euphoria and that he had been caught doing something wrong.'"

Also this: "...one person had asked him 'to leave her place of business as he makes unwanted advances towards women and makes them feel uneasy.'"

From FOX 13 in Salt Lake: Possible suspect revealed in new documents surrounding Grand Co. murders

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Howl

[Howl]

Well, somebody got ahead of the story:  Man cleared, no longer suspect in murder of Crystal Turner and Kylen Schulte

This is distressing.  There is a murderer still wandering around...

[Howl]

I checked on Websleuths to see if there was any updated information. 

• The FBI has declared that Brian Laundrie was not involved in the murder of these two women. 
• The father of Kylen Schulte has requested months ago that people stop speculating on SM about Brian Laundrie's possible involvement. 

However, a poster on Websleuths seems convinced that obsessed with the idea that Brian Laundrie murdered these two women and was possibly a serial killer.  

My brief foray onto Websleuths related to the lost (and subsequently found) father and daughter in West Texas led me to realize there is some fairly grounded stuff and some incredibly bizarre speculation on Websleuths. 

[zee_four]

Telling the people of Moab to be careful? I'm sorry its not us its mostly outsiders (not you guys ofc but the Websluthes) Locals have been adamant about stopping the overt speculation mostly revolving around that scumbag who killed Gabby. They don't like we're sharing how that civilians had to do their job and find our friends bodies because they didn't. 

I don't think any of us ever thought that Gabby's killer killed Ky and Crystal (I'm part of #NoNotoriety ever since my friends were killed in the Aurora theater shooting and don't like naming these murderers monsters once we know who they are. It's a great organization you should check out that really got  started by my friend Alex Teves mom Caren who is like a second mom. Alex was killed protecting her girlfriend in the theater shooting. A lot of friends from the Columbine survivor community are also big proponents like another close friend Coni Sanders whose dad was the only teacher killed at Columbine but yeah side note on that)

And while the cops say they may not have been sexually assaulted by police standards but they were found undressed from the waist down shot execution style. I know this as a fact because our friend found them because the cops refused to look and he took pictures incase the cops wouldn't do anything. Thats how much faith locals had with GCSD and MPD. But that seems very sexually oriented to me even if someone didn't PIV rape them.

I'm glad they're finally doing something but I'm still not happy all this hoopla around Gabby and that murdering scumbag took away from two "lesser" women by society's standards.

I know I can't be objective here because I only recently left Moab because of severe DV and I was friends with Kylen and Crystal but

 

Mahalo nui to everyone here for keeping this post updated and alive and showing that people do care. It means a lot. ♡

Edited March 3, 2022 by zee_four
Autocorrect blues

[Howl]

@zee_four, are you familiar with the individual who was interviewed early on but subsequently cleared?  Do locals continue to be suspicious of that individual? 

 

[zee_four]

On 3/3/2022 at 2:57 AM, Howl said:

@zee_four, are you familiar with the individual who was interviewed early on but subsequently cleared?  Do locals continue to be suspicious of that individual? 

 

Last time I talked to people about the case, the early suspects were not well known locals, but transient types who aren't really part of the community. Half the people that live in the area at any given time are transient campers, van life types or more traditional houseless transient and don't settle down in housing and work FT year round, have families, etc. Probably more than half in spring and fall. But so far there hasn't been actual local under suspicion officially or unofficially.

Here's the most recent case related post from a family run public access FB group,

 

"

If you saw a vehicle....

8/12 arriving at crime scene
8/13 leaving the crime scene and then coming back later
8/14 frantically driving down the mountain or over the top of the mountain just before noon

Contact my PI Jason K Jensen PI 

THIS IS HUGE EVERYBODY WE NOW KNOW THAT YOU MAY HAVE WITNESSED THE VEHICLE OR EVEN THE PERSON WHILE YOU WERE GOING UP THE MOUNTAIN JUST BEFORE NOON IN BROAD DAYLIGHT. 

FORESTRY ROAD 4651
FR4651
OVER GYSER PASS
DOWN SAND FLATS ROAD
THROUGH PARADOX
LOOP ROAD. SOUTH ON 191
NORTH ON 191
NORTH ON RIVER ROAD
EAST TOWARD GATEWAY CO

THIS DID NOT HAPPEN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT THIS BASTARD KILLED OUR GIRLS IN BROAD DAYLIGHT AND THEN DROVE PAST A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE. 

If you have any information on any additional 
9 mm handguns that could have been dumped hocked stolen ditched thrown in the river someone might have asked you if you could get rid of one someone might have asked you if you wanted to buy one on the down low we need to know about it

🌻🌹🌻🌹🌻🌹🌻🌹🌻🌹🌻🌹🌻🌹🌻🌹🌻🌹🌻🌹🌻🌹🌻🌹🌻🌹🌻🌹🌻🌹"

 

Its sad it's PIs being paid for by low income families because MPD and GCDD won't do anything unless there's national attention. Unfortunately for Ky and Crystal they weren't perfect victims so  only family and friends seem to give a shit. Knowing that MPD and GCSD can mobilize like they did for Gabby by but aren't is even more heartbreaking. The girls were murdered in the middle of the day in a fairly well accessible and traveled area by Moab standards right when fall busy season was starting up.  They might not have been assaulted PIV, or "raped" as authorities say with no qualifying or explanation, but they were stripped naked from the waist down which seems like sexual violence in some capacity against these loving caring amazing women and shot in broad daylight and the cops wouldn't even bother to find them, friends and family had to search and find them.

The fact that MPD and GCSD can give press releases orete ding they're working this but family is telling all locals, friends, etc. to contact PIs shows the truth.