(Possible Child Sexual Abuse Content) Josh and Anna 34: Plea Deal in the Making?

[Bluebirdbluebell]

16 hours ago, Howl said:

Prison could be very good for Josh IF mandatory SECULAR counseling/treatment specific to child sex offenders is part of  it.

He's only done Jesus (pray away the problem) counseling up to this point that I'm aware of and most of the rest of the family and his wife are clueless, as they have been since it was revealed that he molested his sisters.

The Duggars/Anna are still steeped in the IBLP/ATI idiocy that gives zero insight into his problem.  Never, ever forget that Bill Gothard himself and at least one brother were sexual perverts/deviants/abusers.  

But back to Josh: his sexual compulsions have manifested in so many different ways over the years, and those are only the ones we know about...

At some point (likely 8 to 18 years in the future based on this thread) everyone will be better off when  he's released from prison on probation with at least some insight on how to address and reign in those compulsions.  

I agree that Josh would benefit from secular counseling. With any luck, it might help him to see getting a divorce is a good idea if Anna doesn't divorce him before that.

I think his family is more than just clueless. I think they are willfully ignorant. Real counseling might cause him to question his beliefs and make him realize he doesn't believe most of what his upbringing taught him.

3 hours ago, Grace said:

Oh.....ohhhhh noooooo. I have only just this moment realized I could possibly get called up for that jury pool. No. Please no. I do not want to be subjected to details. Do you think "I'm a member of Free Jinger"  could get me disqualified???? Please?

Tell them you aware of the facts of the case and with Josh's family. It may be hard to find people who don't know the Duggars, but theoretically juries are supposed to be made of people with no prior knowledge of the crime. If you say "I know Josh molested his sisters", you will be disqualified as you are prejudiced against the defendant.

It probably won't go to trial and probably only people in the area will be called as jurors.

[Sajdeb]

On 9/5/2021 at 9:13 PM, Flossie said:

I had a relative that was on a jury, and I couldn't believe she voted to acquit.

The Defendant was accused of trying to run over the alleged Victim.  The Defendant had found out the Victim had had an affair with Defendants wife, and also sold him some fake drugs.

The Victim was in his driveway when the Defendant came roaring down the street honking and yelling "You motherfucker!", so the Victim ran around his house to the back yard.  He didn't want to go into the house because his children were in there and he didn't want them to see their father assulted or killed.  

The Defendant drove onto the Victims lawn, and drove around the house, taking down the fence in the process.  Then he drove the car around into the back yard and drove at the Victim, who was hiding behind a tree.  After ramming the tree at a high rate of speed, the Defendant was knocked unconscious and the Victim ran into the house, grabbed his kids, and ran out the front door to the car, where they drove off to the nearest police station.

The Defendant claimed that his brakes failed and he had to use the tree to stop his car; later a mechanic checked the car out and found the brakes worked just fine.  The Defendant claimed he was just going to his friends house to warn him that his drug supplier was cheating him.  The Defendant didn't want his good buddy to lose his rep as a trustworthy drug dealer, I guess.  As for honking and calling the Victim a motherfucker, the Defendant claimed that was always how they approached each others houses and calling each other names was just good clean fun.  The Defendant also claimed he didn't know of the alleged affair at the time, and wouldn't have believed it anyway.  The gun found on the floor of the car had been under the seat and was intended solely for protection, and was dislodged when the car hit the tree.

My relative, as I said before, voted to acquit.  She couldn't believe someone would try to commit such a crime in broad daylight.  Everyone else on the jury voted to convict.  My relative was quite offended that everyone else was amazed that she believed such a stupid defense.

Trust me, everyone is amazed at your stupid defense as well. You truly are B,A and S.

[imokit]

Aren't prisons hives of religious fundamentalism and indoctrination? Its where people find god to try and make themselves feel better about prison life (and what happened to get them there).  Its also where religious outreach groups (such as the one led by Anna's dad) go and talk to people and going to those groups is a nice break from prison life. 

I wouldn't expect prison to make Josh secular.

I also don't think any of us have a clue what Josh actually believes.  Josh has been all about himself, he clearly doesn't follow all the families religious principles (which is why he's in this mess), but he's also motivated by self interest.  He'll do what he needs to do for an easier life.  It hasn't been about belief for him for years.  If he got secular counselling in prison and came out an atheist, we are unlikely to know as he'll come out and say what he's supposed to say (unless offered a huge financial deal for a tell all - in which case he'd say whatever the people paying him said). 

[Four is Enough]

3 hours ago, imokit said:

Aren't prisons hives of religious fundamentalism and indoctrination? Its where people find god to try and make themselves feel better about prison life (and what happened to get them there).  Its also where religious outreach groups (such as the one led by Anna's dad) go and talk to people and going to those groups is a nice break from prison life. 

While it's true that a lot of evangelism is attempted at prisons, the reasons prisoners attend are varied. (I know this because one of the Four is a seasoned prison veteran.)

They go to get out of their cell. It's time separate from exercise or meal time.

They go to get "points". If they show up for religious meetings, it goes on their record as a plus.

They go to get snacks. Sometimes the preachers are permitted to bring in sealed snacks.

What they generally don't go for is the word of God..

[FiveAcres]

20 hours ago, Jess said:

Jury selection would probably begin that day. I know of a couple judges where the first day is making sure there are not any outstanding pretrial issues and that they are really going forward for sure before the jury is called in the next day. I wouldn’t expect jury selection for this case to be a multi day affair. It’s very common for jury selection to only take a few hours and opening statements to start the first day. It’s only in those very high profile cases where everyone has heard about the facts in detail and they need to go through hundreds of people to get a jury that it takes a long time. People have said the Duggar’s are not really that popular in Arkansas. So, for normal standard things it’s more like ask Juror No. 1 couple relevant questions okay good to go. Juror No. 2 makes it clear you better let them out do this or they will make you pay by giving ridiculous answers. No. 3 good to go ect.

 

Re Juror #2. When I was empaneled on a jury for a civil trial for malpractice, one guy stood up and started giving this free association speech about doctors and health care for several minutes. It was bizarre, and I couldn't tell if he actually thought that way or just wanted to avoid being on jury.  He was excused from serving.

[AprilQuilt]

12 hours ago, Grace said:

Oh.....ohhhhh noooooo. I have only just this moment realized I could possibly get called up for that jury pool. No. Please no. I do not want to be subjected to details. Do you think "I'm a member of Free Jinger"  could get me disqualified???? Please?

surely. It wouldn't just be about what your membership of FJ said about your beliefs, or how FJ might influence you, there could also be a question of what info you might pass back to the snark community (not saying you would, of course), possibly jeopardising the trial. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by AprilQuilt
my comment posted twice

[SassyPants]

True story. I was called for JD in the 90s for what turned out to be a murder trial. At one point I was seated in the box of 12 potential jurors.  I Remember one of the questions asked was confirming my address- WTH. Anyhow, about 1/2 hour into VD, the door opens and this woman, a potential juror, came running in. She stood in the aisle and stated to the judge” this is the same room where by brother was convicted of murder.” I must have had a visible response, because at the next opportunity the defense excused me.

I’ve also been called twice where the bailiff comes in and excuses everyone d/t a plea deal, day of…what a waste of time.

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

True story. I was called for JD in the 90s for what turned out to be a murder trial. At one point I was seated in the box of 12 potential jurors.  I Remember one of the questions asked was confirming my address- WTH. Anyhow, about 1/2 hour into VD, the door opens and this woman, a potential juror, came running in. She stood in the aisle and stated to the judge” this is the same room where by brother was convicted of murder.” I must have had a visible response, because at the next opportunity the defense excused me.

I’ve also been called twice where the bailiff comes in and excuses everyone d/t a plea deal, day of…what a waste of time.

Quoting myself here. Yes @giraffe, that must have been the look on my face that got me dismissed from the case. And seriously, you expose my address with a potential murderer within earshot?

Edited September 16, 2021 by SassyPants

[Travelfan]

I’ve always wanted to be on jury duty. It seems interesting. My dad was in one almost 20 years ago and it was one where they all had to be sequestered in a hotel for a week. I got close one time, we were in the courtroom waiting for jury selection to start and they reached a plea deal…

[church_of_dog]

15 hours ago, Grace said:

Oh.....ohhhhh noooooo. I have only just this moment realized I could possibly get called up for that jury pool. No. Please no. I do not want to be subjected to details. Do you think "I'm a member of Free Jinger"  could get me disqualified???? Please?

The one jury I was on was a grandfather accused of molesting his granddaughters.  At the very beginning of jury selection the judge acknowledged this is a topic some people feel they can't handle dealing with discussion/testimony on the subject.  IIRC we had two potential jurors excused for that reason.

 

[EmiSue]

I was on jury duty 7 months pregnant. I thought for sure no one would want a visibly pregnant woman on a jury, but I made the cut and even became the presiding juror, so my signature is on the official verdict. The case was assault of a guard at the jail where the defendant was being held for another assault. The guard almost died and had to retire early. Evidence was hard to sit through, so I spent a lot of time focusing on my son squirming away while I sat in the jury box. The other jurors including the alternate dubbed themselves "12 honorary godparents" to my son and the alternate kept asking how likely preterm labor was since the trial extended to the week of Thanksgiving. It was interesting, but the timing was terrible and I would have enjoyed it more if I weren't pregnant.

[Alisamer]

28 minutes ago, EmiSue said:

I was on jury duty 7 months pregnant. I thought for sure no one would want a visibly pregnant woman on a jury, but I made the cut and even became the presiding juror, so my signature is on the official verdict. The case was assault of a guard at the jail where the defendant was being held for another assault. The guard almost died and had to retire early. Evidence was hard to sit through, so I spent a lot of time focusing on my son squirming away while I sat in the jury box. The other jurors including the alternate dubbed themselves "12 honorary godparents" to my son and the alternate kept asking how likely preterm labor was since the trial extended to the week of Thanksgiving. It was interesting, but the timing was terrible and I would have enjoyed it more if I weren't pregnant.

Apparently my mom got called for Jury Duty when I was three, my younger sister was almost a year old, and she was just over a month from her due date with my youngest sister - and middle sister had showed up a month early so she really thought she could give birth any time. Her sister was a paralegal at the time, and apparently knew who to speak to, because she got out of going that time, and didn't get called again for literal decades!

[HereticHick]

9 hours ago, Sajdeb said:

Trust me, everyone is amazed at your stupid defense as well. You truly are B,A and S.

Why hasn't this utterly delightful human being been banned yet?

[Destiny]

2 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Why hasn't this utterly delightful human being been banned yet?

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Destiny

[Bad Wolf]

I was called 3 times before I became a citizen. I ended up finally going to the courthouse armed with passport and green card. Mr. Wolf was called for the first time at 72. He was quite excited, but the case was dismissed, or pled out or something. Anyway, he has never served.

[SweetLaurel]

My favorite jury duty story - I've been called 4 times- had to go for a week, every time.  Served on a couple trials but most of them either didn't get picked or they pled.  But one - they were quizzing people and asked if anyone knew the guy on trial or the victim or anyone else associated with the trial.  I said, yeah, I knew the prosecuter, he took my puppy class.  The other lawyer said, yeah, I took your puppy class too.  The judge said, yeah, I took your puppy class too. I said 'you all look different out of formal attire'.   And I still freaking got picked!   

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, Alisamer said:

Apparently my mom got called for Jury Duty when I was three, my younger sister was almost a year old, and she was just over a month from her due date with my youngest sister - and middle sister had showed up a month early so she really thought she could give birth any time. Her sister was a paralegal at the time, and apparently knew who to speak to, because she got out of going that time, and didn't get called again for literal decades!

When I was nursing my then 6-month-old son (he is 32 yrs old now), I was called for jury duty but was exempted for the next 10 years because I was the “primary caregiver of minor children.”  This was more exemption than I needed, but there wasn’t a one or two year exemption for nursing mothers.🙄

[Howl]

5 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I’ve also been called twice where the bailiff comes in and excuses everyone d/t a plea deal, day of…what a waste of time.

I've been called for jury duty multiple times for civil trials.  Thee times we (the jury pool) were sitting in the hallway, scrolling on cell phones, reading, working crossword puzzles, and someone comes out of the court room to tell us we're dismissed because the case had just been settled. 

 

[Karma]

Neither my husband, 60, or myself, 54, have ever been called for jury duty. Friends have been called multiple times. Maybe our names never made it to the database?  I’m terrible at making decisions, and I’m very squeamish, so I’m relieved I haven’t been called!

[Antimony]

23 hours ago, starfish said:

His attorneys need to be talking to him about the reality of his prison time.    

Not to make an easy dunk, but nobody has been able to explain reality to Josh yet. 

Re: Prison Programs and Services: Honestly, it is a fundamental core belief of mine that there could be a way to rehabilitate pedophiles and understand pedophilia in a way that protects us as communities. But, I also believe what those programs would look and function as is so fundamentally opposed to the Duggar Way of Fucking Around and Hoping You Don't Find Out that Josh has no chance. Some people do. But, most programs are underfunded, overworked, excessively limited by prison red tape, etc. 

Re: Religion in Prison - Depends. I've been pretty open here that I do prison activism, I have prison pen-pals, etc. In my experience of opening hundreds of letters from incarcerated people, the prevalence of religion seems a lot higher than it does to me in my day-to-day life. I am part of a religious prison ministry but they are explicitly non-evangelizing, so you know, it's all chill. (Abolition Apostles, if you're wondering.) I can certainly see why this is the case and @Four is Enough brings up some good points as to why. Also, haven't been called for jury duty but I suspect my general beliefs and prison activities disqualify me from many, many, many, many, many cases. I guess I'll see. 

[forgetmenow]

I live in a very large and populous county so I used to get called for jury duty 3 years to the date of the last summons.  The first time I was called I was 18 and working for minimum wage during my summer break and the company did not pay for jury duty time.  I was a broke college student and summer was the only time I could make money for the entire year.  I went and was sent to a courtroom for a civil case where the judge made it clear that it would be a lengthy trial and if this was a hardship to let him know.  I actually brought my last paystub with me and told them I just couldn't afford not to work.  After looking at my check with a mixture of shock and pity, they excused me.

I was disheartened at how many people told me just to tell the judge I was racist (not true, btw) and couldn't possibly be openminded in a trial.  And I live in a VERY blue state.  For the record (not that anyone here would do it) it doesn't work.  One guy tried it during voir dire for a criminal case while I was there and was ordered by the judge to attend every day of the trial and sit in the front row, even though he couldn't seat him on the jury.  That made me very happy.

[mpheels]

I posted earlier about a civil case where I was impaneled on the jury. I actually went through voir dire for a different case first. It was a gun possession charge, stemming from a traffic stop. The judge estimated they trial would take 1-2 days total. Knowing the city and race dynamics, it was fairly obvious the defense would argue the traffic stop was racially motivated (it probably was…). I walk up, a white woman from the South (place of birth is listed on the juror form) living in a big northeastern city, and the prosecutor was visibly excited and the defense attorney wasn’t happy. Then they asked me about police/community relations, and I said I felt police in our city are sometimes overly antagonistic and creat unnecessary conflicts. I didn’t say that to get out of jury duty. I truly believe that, and was quickly dismissed and sent back to the jury room. From there, I got called to be in the jury pool for a civil case, along with everyone else that had been dismissed from other cases. And that’s how I ended up on jury duty for two weeks… 

TL,DR: if you get dismissed from from the jury pool for one trial, you might end up impaneled in the jury for an even more onerous trial.

[BlackberryGirl]

I was called for jury duty a few years ago and I called to be excused because of my severe hearing impairment. I am unable to use hearing aids, and I don’t sign. I read lips. The officer said no. She said the jury box wasn’t that far from the witness stand or the judge. So I told her “fine, as long as I will be no more than 3 feet away from any person speaking, and that any person speaking is instructed to face me directly whenever they are speaking, we would be just fine.” I got a letter 2 days later with a permanent exemption.

thing is, I would actually like to serve on a jury. I find the idea fascinating. 
 

[Bad Wolf]

I think that if Josh is going to plead out, he would wait until the last minute. He would want to spend as much time as possible as a free man. He might want to hold out until M7 is born. Just as long as he doesn't have enough time to make M8.

[starfish]

34 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

I think that if Josh is going to plead out, he would wait until the last minute. He would want to spend as much time as possible as a free man. He might want to hold out until M7 is born. Just as long as he doesn't have enough time to make M8.

He will be on the Federal District Court Judge's schedule--not Duggar time. I'm sure he wants to delay this as long as  possible but it's tougher to do in federal court.