[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 33: Ohhh Honey It Is Already a Disaster.....

[Jesquire]

As a kid, I was explained the concept of trinity or  a"triune God"  as just like an apple. There are different explanations for the three parts, but for me, 

Core= God the father

meat/flesh of the apple= Holy Spirit

Outside skin= Jesus as the one visible to the outside world.

You need all three parts to be an apple, like 3 parts as God.  I have also heard of using an egg to illustrate the concept too.

[Mirla]

12 hours ago, Alisamer said:

[snip]

That doesn't have to mean he did it in six literal 24 hour days and that evolution never happened. We know the Earth is older than that, and that evolution happened and is still happening.

[snip]

I don’t understand why any measurement of time, much less a 24 earth-hour day, would have any meaning to a God who is all-seeing and all-knowing and never-changing and Omni-present prior to the creation of anything that could measure time.  How did God measure a day when there was no light or rotation to base that on?  How did God measure time when there was nothing that changed to base it on?  No heartbeats to count.  No sand or water flowing to measure.  No sub-atomic particles vibration to count.  Being Omni-present, there is no distance to cover so nothing like a light year (and there wasn’t light yet).  Why would God have a reason to measure time before anything existed?  And if a 24 hour period is something sacred, why has the length of a day varied over time, exactly which “hour” should we treat is sacred?  And yet several churches require people to believe in the literal 6x24 creation, even though they know it is a stumbling block to many, and not anything we are required to believe for salvation.

[formergothardite]

8 hours ago, Mirla said:

And yet several churches require people to believe in the literal 6x24 creation, even though they know it is a stumbling block to many, and not anything we are required to believe for salvation.

The way I was taught was that if we didn’t take it literally, then it is a slippery slope to saying the salvation story isn’t literal. Once you allow people to start thinking in non literal terms and believing science, they might decide they don’t need to be saved. 

One fundie I know church VBS theme this year is that evolution is wicked. From what I saw, it was nothing but spreading lies about what evolution really is and telling kids it it a lot easier to understand the creation story. 

[Four is Enough]

I've said it before, I think evolution can exist in the framework of the creation story.. because, what it time to God? We were an idea, we have evolved, it all works together..

 

[Smee]

On 7/20/2021 at 2:41 AM, Jesquire said:

As a kid, I was explained the concept of trinity or  a"triune God"  as just like an apple. There are different explanations for the three parts, but for me, 

Core= God the father

meat/flesh of the apple= Holy Spirit

Outside skin= Jesus as the one visible to the outside world.

You need all three parts to be an apple, like 3 parts as God.  I have also heard of using an egg to illustrate the concept too.

The one I’ve always heard used (and I like) is that it’s like H2O - you can have water, ice or steam and they all behave in different ways and have different uses, but they’re all different expressions of the same essence (elements).

[Expectopatronus]

58 minutes ago, Smee said:

The one I’ve always heard used (and I like) is that it’s like H2O - you can have water, ice or steam and they all behave in different ways and have different uses, but they’re all different expressions of the same essence (elements).

I’ve heard that one a few times but most the three leaf clover comparison: three parts, one source, all connected. It’s a hard concept to explain and I think it’s one that gets more confusing the more one tries to logically understand it. I’m not sure that it is a concept that can be fully understood. Just my thoughts though. No doubt Bro Gary understands it perfectly. 

[NonSOTDRT Teacher]

I had never even heard of Young Earth Creationism until I was in college in 2009 and an episode of (17?) kids and counting was playing in the background where they were at the creation museum. I was thankful that even though I grew up Southern Baptist, my parents also believed in science. I was taught as a child that the days of creation were indefinite periods of time. Even as a Non-Denominational Moderate Christian now, I don’t think creationism and evolution have to go against each other. Who’s to say God didn’t use the Big Bang and evolution to create the world? Just my beliefs.

[feministxtian]

39 minutes ago, NonSOTDRT Teacher said:

I had never even heard of Young Earth Creationism until I was in college in 2009 and an episode of (17?) kids and counting was playing in the background where they were at the creation museum. I was thankful that even though I grew up Southern Baptist, my parents also believed in science. I was taught as a child that the days of creation were indefinite periods of time. Even as a Non-Denominational Moderate Christian now, I don’t think creationism and evolution have to go against each other. Who’s to say God didn’t use the Big Bang and evolution to create the world? Just my beliefs.

I grew up in the buckle of the bible belt (near Virginia Beach, VA, the home of Pat Robertson) and was aware of young earth creationism for years. I grew up and was educated in the Catholic schools of my hometown and well...I do not remember anything being said about creationism in my religion classes. I agree about the big bang...I used to have a bumper sticker that read "The Big Bang Theory: God said it and BANG it happened". I do believe there is an intelligence behind the universe however, HOW it all came about is not my problem. God did it and I'm good with that. 

[Jinder Roles]

Grew up baptist in the Caribbean and young earth creationism wasn’t a prominent thing. Most people were Christian but also not averse to obvious science. 
 

I’m seeing more young earth creationism in my home now (thanks to American evangelicals exporting their agenda) 

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, NonSOTDRT Teacher said:

I had never even heard of Young Earth Creationism until I was in college in 2009 and an episode of (17?) kids and counting was playing in the background where they were at the creation museum. I was thankful that even though I grew up Southern Baptist, my parents also believed in science. I was taught as a child that the days of creation were indefinite periods of time. Even as a Non-Denominational Moderate Christian now, I don’t think creationism and evolution have to go against each other. Who’s to say God didn’t use the Big Bang and evolution to create the world? Just my beliefs.

During my second year teaching at a large state university, I had a student write, “this author is clearly one of those people who believe in ghosts, reincarnation, and evolution.”

Twenty-three or four years later, I still haven’t recovered from the juxtaposition of ghosts and evolution in the same “classification.”

In my Victorian lit and culture class, I would generally assign some Darwin.  There were always a couple of students who were ready to debate evolution vs creationism the minute they saw Darwin on the syllabus, even though the first reading was usually not about evolution but about observation.  It was a lot like being drawn back into the Victorian period where the arguments about evolution started.

I suspect that the problem is not with how long it took to create the earth but with the way evolutionary theory suggests that humans might not have been “created in God’s image.”  If science weren’t challenging that part of the creation story, it might be easier to accept that God’s seven days are longer than ours. ?
 

[Smee]

I grew up with atheist scientist parents and converted to Christianity (baptist, evangelical) when I was about 14 but right from the start I was comfortable with the idea that God and evolution are perfectly compatible. I knew some people at my church were iffy about macro evolution, but as far as I thought, full on Young Earth Creationism in six literal days was a wacky American fringe and I didn’t think I knew anybody who believed that. But either I was blind or its influence has spread in the past decade or two, and now I’m pulling my kids out of Sunday school because they’re doing an “answers in Genesis” program ??. The stupid thing is, I spoke to another couple at the church who are considering pulling their kids too, and he’s a church elder who sometimes preaches. Why the hell they’re letting the kids church ministry be overtaken by such a controversial doctrine when the church leadership doesn’t even believe it, I do not know.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Smee

[livinginthelight]

14 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I suspect that the problem is not with how long it took to create the earth but with the way evolutionary theory suggests that humans might not have been “created in God’s image.”  If science weren’t challenging that part of the creation story, it might be easier to accept that God’s seven days are longer than ours. ?
 

I agree. Some Christians can't stand the idea that there was no literal Adam and Eve and no specific Garden of Eden, which would be the case if evolution were true. It feels to them that we'd be throwing out the Bible, which is very threatening to their faith.

I'd be upset too if I read all parts of the Bible in a literal way. But it seems to me very clear that, at minimum, the first 11 chapters of Genesis are allegorical rather than factual. Especially as the name "Adam" in Hebrew can translate to "mankind".

[Jinder Roles]

@Smee Oh it has definitely spread in the past few decades along with other topics (e.g: abortion)

[livinginthelight]

14 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Twenty-three or four years later, I still haven’t recovered from the juxtaposition of ghosts and evolution in the same “classification.”

 

This sentence made me laugh.

[Jess]

My family was young earth creationist to such an extent that I was pretty old before I realized you could believe in evolution and be a Christian. The only positive thing I remember anyone in my family ever saying about evolution was my mother once saying she believed that evolution worked now because you could breed different kinds of dogs, but that she was positive it was not how god created the universe. My family firmly believed god put everything how he wanted it on earth about 6,000 years ago and things started evolving then. The first time I heard about the days might work differently for god I thought it was a new (good) idea this guy had come up with. I was probably already 12ish and becoming increasingly skeptical about God/Christianity that argument alone probably gave me a few more months as a christian believer. I had no idea at the time it was something so widely believed. 

[Travelfan]

It’s interesting how growing up in Christian circles we all have different things that hung us up and different things we accepted blindly with no doubt. I grew up as a young earth creationist. The creation happening in 6 literal days was one of those things for me that I had no issue with. I figured if god was god he could do anything and if he could create an entire universe he could do it instantaneously. In fact I figured each “day” it only took him 1 second to create what he created that day. I had no problem with him just saying let there be blank and snapping his fingers and it just fully existed complete in that very moment. I kinda wondered why he spread it out over 6 days instead of just doing it all 5 minutes. I also wondered why he needed a “rest” after ? The thing I couldn’t get past was that I just couldn’t really truly believe he actually existed at all. I always thought “how do we REALLY know it’s the truth. Of course that kind of doubting just made me think I was going to hell since I was always taught heaven was for those who believe and hell was for those who doubt or full out reject. I’m in a MUCH better mental place as an atheist now!

Edited July 24, 2021 by Travelfan

[NancyDrewFan1989]

Out of curiosity, but is anyone else starting to get annoyed with these tabloid stories about Anna Duggar. Almost everyday there seems to be one or two new ones that focus on Anna and what she is doing with an anonymous source who claims to be close to the Duggars. Anna has yet to break her silence, then again, she probably can't until Josh's trial is over. Plus, most of them are, as I said, tabloids that are known for not being too reliable like The Sun. It just seems to be getting a little out of hand with the tabloid stories about Anna because so many people want the inside scoop on her life right now. I do believe that Anna will break her silence and more will come out about her life right now, but not until Josh's trial is over. 

[Anna Bolinas]

1 hour ago, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

Out of curiosity, but is anyone else starting to get annoyed with these tabloid stories about Anna Duggar.

And then they get morphed into fact and everyone gets tied into knots over something that may or may not be true. Like the most recent story about Anna staying over at the Reber house. Could she be sleeping over? Yes. Is she sleeping over? We don't know for sure. And it just seems like a waste of energy to get so upset over a hypothetical. There are plenty of things that Anna has actually done that can be criticized, but there's no point in taking this tabloid stories at face value.

[Dandruff]

I wonder how things are going with Josh and the Rebers.  I would think they'd have reached some sort of equilibrium by now, if equilibrium is possible.  OTOH, it looks like the little house pest is going to be around for much longer than initially anticipated and that may or may not be sitting well with the pest-sitters.

I'm curious as to what's going on in Josh's head.  Is he feeling confident or does he have a sense of impending doom?  Is he, on any level, enjoying being with the Rebers?  What does he do all day?

[Gobsmacked]

13 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I wonder how things are going with Josh and the Rebers.  I would think they'd have reached some sort of equilibrium by now, if equilibrium is possible.  OTOH, it looks like the little house pest is going to be around for much longer than initially anticipated and that may or may not be sitting well with the pest-sitters.

I'm curious as to what's going on in Josh's head.  Is he feeling confident or does he have a sense of impending doom?  Is he, on any level, enjoying being with the Rebers?  What does he do all day?

Hopefully they have him doing something useful. Redecorate the whole house, Gardening ? Something useful that is going to benefit them once he has gone to jail. 

[Nothing if not critical]

On 7/24/2021 at 3:51 PM, Travelfan said:

I figured if god was god he could do anything and if he could create an entire universe he could do it instantaneously. 

I had a similar problem with the whole dogma of Mary’s virginity (I grew up Catholic, so it was kind of a big deal). I distinctly remember one conversation with my R.E. teacher at school where he asked me why I thought such a thing was beyond God’s power. And I replied that I had no issue at all with God being able to have a virgin birth happen. Clearly, if he’s all powerful, that’s no big deal. I just couldn’t for the life of me figure out WHY he’d want that to happen and why I should be impressed by it. It was the implications that bothered me.

[Travelfan]

10 hours ago, Nothing if not critical said:

I had a similar problem with the whole dogma of Mary’s virginity (I grew up Catholic, so it was kind of a big deal). I distinctly remember one conversation with my R.E. teacher at school where he asked me why I thought such a thing was beyond God’s power. And I replied that I had no issue at all with God being able to have a virgin birth happen. Clearly, if he’s all powerful, that’s no big deal. I just couldn’t for the life of me figure out WHY he’d want that to happen and why I should be impressed by it. It was the implications that bothered me.

Regarding the virgin birth I was once at a ladies dinner where the speaker was talking about the birth of Jesus and mentioned Joseph delivering the baby.  She was making a point of how Joseph had never “known” Mary yet. This struck me as funny and I wrote on a small piece of paper “poor Joseph had to deliver a baby and he had never even seen a naked woman before” and passed it around the table I was at. Soon all of my friends were laughing hysterically.  I tried so hard to keep it together but we were all losing it. I should mention I was the pastors wife…

[JDuggs]

On a random google search tonight, I was reminded of a child pornography arrest in my city back in 2017. I couldn’t find any information about his sentencing, but I do see him currently on the sex offender registry. Could anyone PM me to help me find his sentence online or is it not that easily accessible?

[EmCatlyn]

On 7/25/2021 at 10:19 PM, NancyDrewFan1989 said:

Out of curiosity, but is anyone else starting to get annoyed with these tabloid stories about Anna Duggar. Almost everyday there seems to be one or two new ones that focus on Anna and what she is doing with an anonymous source who claims to be close to the Duggars. Anna has yet to break her silence, then again, she probably can't until Josh's trial is over. Plus, most of them are, as I said, tabloids that are known for not being too reliable like The Sun. It just seems to be getting a little out of hand with the tabloid stories about Anna because so many people want the inside scoop on her life right now. I do believe that Anna will break her silence and more will come out about her life right now, but not until Josh's trial is over. 

I remember well during the previous Josh scandal how there were reports that Anna was here, there, over there… contemplating divorce, staying near the rehab place, staying with her parents, at some hotel with her mother, planning this, doing that…  

Turned out she was staying in the girls’ room at the TTH, and she had no intention to make the situation a disaster, etc.   I expect it will be the same this time.

[CarrotCake]

2 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

Turned out she was staying in the girls’ room at the TTH, and she had no intention to make the situation a disaster, etc.   I expect it will be the same this time.

But will she live in the TTH again? Or is it close enough for them to be in the warehouse on the premise? I don't think a women is allowed to live alone right? It will be about 10 years before the oldest son is an adult and she does not have any single brothers anymore to join her.