[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh & Anna 30: LaCounting On to His Trial Date

[dawbs]

11 minutes ago, gustava said:

Does anyone know what's in the LLC's that are in Anna's name?  Are the contents worth anything?

I don't vouch for the accuracy of this, because I clearly didn't write it, but according to this redditt list:

-Cambridge Arbor LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company- Filed on September 2019 - Used to buy real estate in February 2020 for $35,000

-Glasgow Drive LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company - Filed on July 2020 - Used to purchase real estate in July 2020 for $2,000

-Lexington Contractors LLC - Josh and Anna Duggar - Filed on July 2017 - So far, nothing

-Ravenglass North LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company - Filed on July 2020 - Used to purchase real estate on July 2020 for $2,000 - Owned by the same person from N°10

-Ravenglass South LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company - Filed on July 2020 - Used to purchase real estate on July 2020 for $2,000 - Owned by the same person from N°10

-Soli Deo Gloria LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company - Filed on April 2019 - Used to purchase real estate in July 2019 for $257,078. It was owned by Jim Bob since 2016.

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, dawbs said:

I don't vouch for the accuracy of this, because I clearly didn't write it, but according to this redditt list:

-Cambridge Arbor LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company- Filed on September 2019 - Used to buy real estate in February 2020 for $35,000

-Glasgow Drive LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company - Filed on July 2020 - Used to purchase real estate in July 2020 for $2,000

-Lexington Contractors LLC - Josh and Anna Duggar - Filed on July 2017 - So far, nothing

-Ravenglass North LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company - Filed on July 2020 - Used to purchase real estate on July 2020 for $2,000 - Owned by the same person from N°10

-Ravenglass South LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company - Filed on July 2020 - Used to purchase real estate on July 2020 for $2,000 - Owned by the same person from N°10

-Soli Deo Gloria LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company - Filed on April 2019 - Used to purchase real estate in July 2019 for $257,078. It was owned by Jim Bob since 2016.

 

Damn.  Someone needs to tell JB if you aren't shady you don't need a separate LLC for every business transaction.

So women aren't smart enough to be breadwinners, but they are good enough to slap their names on multiple businesses.  Sure, that makes sense.

[MamaJunebug]

5 minutes ago, dawbs said:

Soli Deo Gloria LLC

The gall!  This means “to God, alone, the glory” as I’ve been taught anyway. The barefaced gall of JB to put that name to one of his lousy deals.  

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Or if he had no kids ever, which would be my preference.

He absolutely can make decisions, as he's shown us, but he makes his own decisions when he thinks he can get away with it.  To choose to limit family size, leave the cult, whatever....even if he wanted to that would result in having to be self-supporting and clearly he won't choose any path that will result in Mommy and Daddy no longer paying his bills.  

And there is no indication he ever wanted to make a healthy decision.  He may well want the fundy public life and have his secret depravity on the side.  He wouldn't be the first or the last person to want to live a double life.  

See JB is always at the root. JB and M are responsible for some of this. Their choices along the way helped to create and reinforce who Josh would ultimately become. And for some reason, Josh has never viewed himself as being able to stand up to his parents. Where his parents are concerned he seemingly can not act or reason like an adult. JB created and fostered that dependence.

[feministxtian]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Damn.  Someone needs to tell JB if you aren't shady you don't need a separate LLC for every business transaction.

I don't understand this. Is there something he's trying to hide? My son has one LLC for his various businesses. I do think that if he and my DIL end up opening the nail spa they want to, that might come under a different one as he is the sole proprietor (or whatever you call it) for his current businesses and the nail spas would be co-owned...

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, EmCatlyn said:

The decisions you identify as “healthy” are not decisions that would be approved of by his community.  He has no reason to see them as good decisions. He probably doesn’t get a vasectomy or divorce Anna because he sees no advantage to it.  Staying married and having lots of kids are things for which he gets approval, even when he is getting stern, grieved, angry or disgusted looks for everything else he does.

I would not be surprised if Josh divorces (or at least leaves Anna and his family) someday.  He just has to get to the point where leaving feels better than staying.

It will be interesting to see when JB passes if things change. I think JB and the $ keep him in line. If Josh had to actually care and provide for those kids on his own volition, he’d have been gone or snipped a long time ago-

[Jess]

2 hours ago, Grumpy Grandma said:

An "if" question- If he were convicted, or plea bargains, is there a chance he will be prevented access to his kids upon release? Do the courts put some sort of safeguard in place for the kids post-release (assuming Anna remains married to him)? 

Yes there is a chance. There is likely (and any investigation would be separate) a separate child welfare case. This case will not be available to the public. So, the federal judge just decided what his terms for pretrial release are. My reading from the court summary was she decided as part of his pretrial release that the children be interviewed. So, Josh would have signed something to that effect before leaving jail. “Insider sources” (who knows about reliability have said Anna doesn’t want them interviewed. I assume they will get done as Josh won’t want to risk his pretrial release.

 

A state family court judge in a separate matter would decide if he is permanently barred from unsupervised access to his children. If an investigation shows abuse/neglect they will get a case plan. Termination would only result if they could show that they are both legally unfit by clear and convincing evidence. I have never known a court to terminate one parents rights if they are not terminating both since you are not liable for child support once terminated. So, if Josh was found legally unfit by clear and convincing evidence, but not Anna they would get a court order either giving him only supervised visitation or no contact until 18. We would probably never know. The court orders would be sealed to protect the children. The Duggar’s are unlikely to advertise it. They would probably just make it seem like Anna and the kids are living somewhere else and sometimes do see Josh or something. I just don’t see them ever admitting anything no matter what the family court decides.

Trying not to be to technical, but if Anna were to divorce him it would be easier to deny him unsupervised access because then a judge is deciding between two parents and using best interest of the child to decide who is better to have legal/physical custody. 

1 hour ago, Whipple said:

Brilliant posts today about nature-nurture! Sociopathic tendencies are inherited. My sister and I had a similar upbringing--same parents, both were slightly sociopathic but not criminal and we were both neglected. I ended up being dependent in terms of my attachment style, and she went off on her own. She is a true sociopath (maybe even a psychopath) in and out of prison for being a con artist, and  I am an empath who to this day needs reassurance from people if I am not in the proper state of mind.  I think the difference is in our DNA. For some reason I did not inherit the sociopathic tendencies, and with my sister all of it not only lined up, but was amplified. Knowing that these traits are inherited and knowing that we cannot choose our parents, does that mean that we might have a degree of empathy for sociopaths and psychopaths? Maybe to some degree, the answer is yes. At the extreme end, until there is more understanding about treatment and prevention, it is too unsafe for these predators to be outside of society, people like Josh need to be locked up as they are too damaged for redemption to be effective. It's just like Jill says, "all so very sad."

Incidentally, my sister's criminal story is being featured on Entertainment Tonight today--not derailing the thread by giving any more detail so don't ask. Anyway, the fact that my sister's life is blowing up because she decided to go a step too far, does explain my obsession of late with Josh and with the Duggar's and why I am back to posting after years of being sporadic. Back to work.

Interesting my mother and sister are having a huge falling out right now. They keep posting about how the other one is a sociopath they had to cut out of their life on Facebook. I have often wanted to point out they are probably both sociopaths. 

[luv2laugh]

9 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

If that were all, then Jill would be talking about “how she actually feels” since she has already been given the “Jill treatment by JB.”   

Not necessarily. Jill's always avoided stirring the pot so I never expected her to say much. She lets Derick do the talking.

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

In an ideal world kids would always have happy and emotionally available parents, but from the beginning of time parents have had to deal with very real life problems while raising kids.  it sucks but if that turned kinds into child predators there would be a lot more of them. 

I agree with this. Nearly all kids have to deal with family problems, problems like alcoholism, drug addiction, etc, and most do not turn out to be deviants.

With that said, we don't know what Michelle and JB were like after Caleb. Did they suffer mild sadness, or was Michelle in bed with clinical depression? Did it cause them to be more patient with him or did they rabidly start enforcing "obedience"? Did it cause them to spoil him or did they ignore him for hours in his crib? Or perhaps he was parented appropriately, and this perversity was something he was born with.

There's a huge range of possibilities, so you really can't say "Well, other people with your background don't turn out that way" because we don't know what that background was. We weren't there. 

 

7 minutes ago, Jess said:

For some reason I did not inherit the sociopathic tendencies, and with my sister all of it not only lined up, but was amplified. Knowing that these traits are inherited and knowing that we cannot choose our parents, does that mean that we might have a degree of empathy for sociopaths and psychopaths? Maybe to some degree, the answer is yes. At the extreme end, until there is more understanding about treatment and prevention, it is too unsafe for these predators to be outside of society, people like Josh need to be locked up as they are too damaged for redemption to be effective. It's just like Jill says, "all so very sad."

Wow. I'm so sorry. This must be an enormous stress, not just today but throughout your life. Give yourself credit for having personal strength as well as good DNA.

[Xan]

 

48 minutes ago, dawbs said:

I don't vouch for the accuracy of this, because I clearly didn't write it, but according to this redditt list:

-Cambridge Arbor LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company- Filed on September 2019 - Used to buy real estate in February 2020 for $35,000

-Glasgow Drive LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company - Filed on July 2020 - Used to purchase real estate in July 2020 for $2,000

-Lexington Contractors LLC - Josh and Anna Duggar - Filed on July 201 - So far, nothing

-Ravenglass North LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company - Filed on July 2020 - Used to purchase real estate on July 2020 for $2,000 - Owned by the same person from N°10

-Ravenglass South LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company - Filed on July 2020 - Used to purchase real estate on July 2020 for $2,000 - Owned by the same person from N°10

-Soli Deo Gloria LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company - Filed on April 2019 - Used to purchase real estate in July 2019 for $257,078. It was owned by Jim Bob since 2016.

 

These are correct.  State corporations lists are public.  I went to the Arkansas site and here's a list of all the Duggar corporations.   I tried to copy from a list but it won't carry over.  I'll try again later.  They have a lot of corporations.

ETA:

Spoiler

 

Most of them are standard limited liability corporations.  They protect assets from lawsuits and you can use the corporation accounts to buy stuff.  I'd be surprised if Jim Bob buys anything that he doesn't run through a corporation and call a "business expense".

As you can see, some are in female Duggar names.  I guess Jim Bob's religious beliefs go out the window when he's trying to shield his money.

(Meid Choppers is a typo.  It should be Medic Choppers.)

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Xan

[Alisamer]

37 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Damn.  Someone needs to tell JB if you aren't shady you don't need a separate LLC for every business transaction.

So women aren't smart enough to be breadwinners, but they are good enough to slap their names on multiple businesses.  Sure, that makes sense.

Does Anna know about all these?

JB is so shady I've got to wonder. Also - did I read that right that there are NONE in Josh's name? Even Jana has an LLC, but the ones in Anna's name... I have to wonder if they were Josh's and were transferred to Anna once it became clear Josh was a potential liability. It seems odd that all the adult male Duggar sons have one just about, except Josh. And none in the other daughter-in-laws' names either. Also interesting that none of the married daughters or sons-in-law have anything in their names... too risky that they might pull a Dillard and JB might lose control of it? Or maybe they just didn't come up under "Duggar". 

Still... JB is shady. I have no doubt he's got shenanigans going on transfering money and property wherever he feels like it's best protected. I wouldn't be surprised if Josh literally had not so much as a car in his own name, and everything is in Anna's - because they knew Josh was going to screw up big time at some point.

[Drala]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I'm not sure what you're saying, that due to their grief over a miscarriage could have impacted toddler Josh to cause this?

I didn't intend to imply that JB &  M's unresolved grief over the miscarriage led directly to the creation of a monster.  I've long thought that refusing to use birth control and then birthing 18 children suggests a huge over compensation to a miscarriage and is probably an expression of unresolved grief.  JB & M's preoccupation with baby making likely contributed to Josh's psychopathology, but how that happened is guesswork.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Drala

[Xan]

24 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

Does Anna know about all these?

JB is so shady I've got to wonder. Also - did I read that right that there are NONE in Josh's name? Even Jana has an LLC, but the ones in Anna's name... I have to wonder if they were Josh's and were transferred to Anna once it became clear Josh was a potential liability. It seems odd that all the adult male Duggar sons have one just about, except Josh. And none in the other daughter-in-laws' names either. Also interesting that none of the married daughters or sons-in-law have anything in their names... too risky that they might pull a Dillard and JB might lose control of it? Or maybe they just didn't come up under "Duggar". 

Still... JB is shady. I have no doubt he's got shenanigans going on transfering money and property wherever he feels like it's best protected. I wouldn't be surprised if Josh literally had not so much as a car in his own name, and everything is in Anna's - because they knew Josh was going to screw up big time at some point.

I think Anna has to know because there are things she'd have to sign.  Whether she understands how much anything is worth or what she's signing is another matter entirely.  And, yes, I get the feeling that they started out with Josh being the registered agent but then were moved to Anna's name.  Jim Bob is clever about money and he'd know that, if Josh had anything solely in his name, it would be an asset that he could lose by being sued.  I was surprised that there was so much in Jeremiah's name.  It might be that Jim Bob uses him as a placeholder for the corporations until the younger sons come of age.  

Edited May 10, 2021 by Xan

[SassyPants]

17 minutes ago, Drala said:

I didn't intend to imply that JB &  M's unresolved grief over the miscarriage led directly to the creation of a monster.  I've long thought that refusing to use birth control and then birthing 17 children suggests a huge over compensation to a miscarriage and is probably an expression of unresolved grief.  JB & M's preoccupation with baby making likely contributed to Josh's psychopathology, but how that happened is guesswork.

I tend to agree. At some point along the way Josh would have been able to understand that he and his siblings were being abused in the form of neglect (emotional, nutritional, educational, shear time),AND had to some how integrate that fact with the very realization that his parents would not stop having kids. So JB and M didn’t seem to care that the basic needs of their already born kids weren’t  being met, Yet they kept adding to the pile, AND turfing the responsibilities to their oldest kids. Who knows how that childhood reality affects some minds-

[quiversR4hunting]

1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

The gall!  This means “to God, alone, the glory” as I’ve been taught anyway. The barefaced gall of JB to put that name to one of his lousy deals.  

and considering that is Latin and Catholics use it in some songs I can't believe they are appropriating it since they hate Catholics. 

[Giraffe]

What stuck out to me with that list is none of them are only in Anna’s name. She can’t make off with them because they’re all co-owned by another entity. JB is shady af. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

and considering that is Latin and Catholics use it in some songs I can't believe they are appropriating it since they hate Catholics. 

They aren't.  I thought that at first too, but google says it's from the protestant reformation declaring salvation is only through God as opposed to the Catholic church.  The sentiment itself is in opposition to Catholicism.  So their Catholic hating cred is still good.

[Silas]

I have a theory that's not only most likely wrong but also probably unpopular.

I think it's possible both Jimbob and Anna eventually drop Josh like a hot potato once they truly realize there's no coming back from this. Jimbob loves money, Anna loves being in the spotlight and being smiled upon. Josh isn't good for either of those things and I think they love those things more than they love Josh tbh. Perhaps it won't click until he's actually convicted and serving time or perhaps upon his release, but at some point I could see everyone pretty much being done with him once they realize how bad he is for their brand. At some point JB has gotta do the math and realize Josh is a lost cause and while he can't save face, he can at least save cash. Right? One would think so anyway. (ha jokes on me...these people don't think) And Anna? She has no backbone and once Josh is in the slammer pretending he doesn't exist will be far easier than dealing with him.

Again I'm probably wrong because these foolish fools always surprise me with their foolishness but I'm going with it because why not? If I had to put money on one though I think Jimbob would disown him before Anna though.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Silas
i'm bad at words

[Browneyed Girl]

Just wanted to say to everyone thanks for being a safe place throughout the awfulness of it all.

I will be back Wednesday- I still need a break.  Too much of this keeps running through my head and it’s not a good idea to hurl at my desk - and trying to say it’s Josh Dugger not COVID will only get me weird looks,

Besides the Bruins play their final 2 games of tea season tonight and tomorrow- and then it’s the playoffs!!!

See you Wednesday 

[viii]

2 hours ago, allyisyourpally5 said:

I don’t deny that Josh had a likely shit and pretty neglected upbringing in many ways  that likely contributed greatly to the path he took. He was deprived of real attention, education and knowledge. They all were. Also agree that it seems to stem further back.

But this doesn’t excuse his crime at all. Plenty of others have equally shitty or worse situations and don’t do this. 

This is what I keep coming back around to. I tend to feel pretty sympathetic for people like Josh and Anna because I know what it's like to be raised in a cult and how much that can affect you as an adult. However, there are a LOT of other people out in the world that have survived worse than what Josh Duggar experienced, and they didn't commit such awful, heinous crimes. 

No matter your upbringing, eventually you have to learn to take responsibility for yourself and your actions. 

[Alice in Fundieland]

As others have said, it’s probably a bit of nature and nurture. Josh was probably born with a predisposition to this deviant behavior and his upbringing did nothing to help the situation.

I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t see anything changing with the family after this. I think Josh will serve his time in jail and will be quietly welcomed home upon his release. 

[Jess]

1 hour ago, dawbs said:

I don't vouch for the accuracy of this, because I clearly didn't write it, but according to this redditt list:

-Cambridge Arbor LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company- Filed on September 2019 - Used to buy real estate in February 2020 for $35,000

-Glasgow Drive LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company - Filed on July 2020 - Used to purchase real estate in July 2020 for $2,000

-Lexington Contractors LLC - Josh and Anna Duggar - Filed on July 2017 - So far, nothing

-Ravenglass North LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company - Filed on July 2020 - Used to purchase real estate on July 2020 for $2,000 - Owned by the same person from N°10

-Ravenglass South LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company - Filed on July 2020 - Used to purchase real estate on July 2020 for $2,000 - Owned by the same person from N°10

-Soli Deo Gloria LLC - Anna Duggar and a financial company - Filed on April 2019 - Used to purchase real estate in July 2019 for $257,078. It was owned by Jim Bob since 2016.

 

I would like to point out that this is a list of LLCs where she is the registered agent or an officer. You do not have to own shares to be either. The registered agent is just who you serve with papers if you are suing the LLC it does not mean the person owns the company. Same with officers it’s just the person listed as an officer it does not mean they are a shareholder. Anna could own 0% of these companies or just a small amount. Conversely she could own 100% of an LCC that does not list her as an agent/officer. I wouldn’t be that shocked if JB owns a large percentage of these companies.

[Drala]

I was a practicing Catholic in the early 1990's when our parish priest was accused of molesting a young teenage boy.  (With that age group, it's called ephebophilia.). Since I was involved in lay ministry, the situation was much too close for comfort.  It was the major influence on my decision to leave the RC church.

It wasn't so much the priest's crime that pushed me out:  It was the reaction of the parish.  Far too many ordinary people in the pews rationalized, minimized, deflected, and outright denied the facts in front of their faces.  The institutional cover-up of priest paedophilia by the church's hierarchy is a well documented phenomenon. What's discussed much less often are the ways in which the laity collude to enable abusive priests.  I hope that toxic patriarchal culture has changed in the 25 years since I left, but I'm skeptical.  As long as women hold little if any institutional power in the organization, the church will be a potentially dangerous environment for vulnerable children.

[Meggo]

2 minutes ago, Drala said:

I was a practicing Catholic in the early 1990's when our parish priest was accused of molesting a young teenage boy.  (With that age group, it's called ephebophilia.). Since I was involved in lay ministry, the situation was much too close for comfort.  It was the major influence on my decision to leave the RC church.

It wasn't so much the priest's crime that pushed me out:  It was the reaction of the parish.  Far too many ordinary people in the pews rationalized, minimized, deflected, and outright denied the facts in front of their faces.  The institutional cover-up of priest paedophilia by the church's hierarchy is a well documented phenomenon. What's discussed much less often are the ways in which the laity collude to enable abusive priests.  I hope that toxic patriarchal culture has changed in the 25 years since I left, but I'm skeptical.  As long as women hold little if any institutional power in the organization, the church will be a potentially dangerous environment for vulnerable children.

(raised Catholic, left the church at 18, but my son does go to a Catholic school because it's RIGHT across the street) I've never been comfortable with the pedestal priests are put on. Called my mom yesterday for Mothers Day and heard all about the medical woes of their parish priest and how they're all going to throw him a fathers day party next month. She discusses his medical stuff like he's a relative- like I've met him, and like I care that he can't take coagulants. (never met the guy - I'm sorry he's in the hospital but...)  I remember priests being given full run of stores owned by parishioners (and driving his fancy car) and having people fall all over themselves to wait on him, to get him what he needs etc.. I'm sure it's not the norm - but ... they're not God. They're men. Flawed humans. Just like the rest of us. 

It's just never sat well with me. I left the church for a host of other reasons - but that's a big one. 

[HereticHick]

Here's an article about one of the LLCs listed--Mt Kessler RV Resort LLC.

[for our European readers, a "RV" is a recreational vehicle, aka a camper van or motorhome]

approved in 2018 but I can't find any indication that the resort is operational. There was a lot of local press about it when the zoning plans were approved. In retrospect, I bet the Duggars regret not opening the place in time for the pandemic camping boom.

https://woodallscm.com/126-site-high-end-arkansas-rv-resort-gets-ok/