[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh&Anna 28:Does anyone wonder how many times JB has phoned up Mike Huckabee?

[rexasaurus_nirb]

Are they done for the day? 

[nelliebelle1197]

Just now, OrchidBlossom said:

The reddit law student says they worked past tense for a DA. It's common for law students to work internships over the summer but study full time in the semesters. Personally, I did summer internships on top of summer classes, but only did one internship during a semester, as a 3L. So it's entirely possible that they got the link through unrelated means.

Right, but this federal, so I wonder if she is currently with the US Attorney's office. She could be an extern. We get a lot of 2L and 3L externs during the semester.

[justoneoftwo]

Why are we sure its closed? Federal hearings are usually open to the public, and I thought this person just signed up to go and got a password. I agree that they were not supposed to publish it on social media until it was done.

[HarleyQuinn]

I guess I assumed since these charges involve CP it would be closed?

[OrchidBlossom]

1 minute ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Right, but this federal, so I wonder if she is currently with the US Attorney's office. She could be an extern. We get a lot of 2L and 3L externs during the semester.

That *is* a fair point, but at the same time there is NO WAY if they're with the USDA they didn't get a stern talking to about privacy before a link was distributed. Maybe it wouldn't deter them, I guess, but most law kids are neurotic about CYA during internships!

[closetcagebaby]

Just now, HarleyQuinn said:

I guess I assumed since these charges involve CP it would be closed?

I don’t think this would be the case as there as no named victims. 

[justoneoftwo]

Just now, HarleyQuinn said:

I guess I assumed since these charges involve CP it would be closed?

There are no minor names being included so I would assume it wouldn't be

[FiveAcres]

Emily Baker (Youtube "Lawyer Reacts") said that there would be details only if the prosecution and the defense couldn't agree on a release plan. Perhaps the prosecution thought the proposed guardian was ludicrous and refused to agree. 

[ofDany]

Closing arguments were posted on reddit.  The prosecution's argument is well constructed, logical, and makes sense to me, but the defense seems really confident, especially given their brevity.  Really hoping the judge is sensible and takes everything into account. 

[front hugs > duggs]

So when Beto tries to take away all the guns, people freak out, but Josh Duggar is allowed to (indirectly) take away the guns and all is well?

[HarleyQuinn]

I mean wtf do I know? I use this site to shit on fundies.  

Also closing arguments link

Spoiler

https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/n5sij0/bond_hearing_closing_arguments/

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by HarleyQuinn

[MayMay1123]

I wonder if jb asked others before the rebers and was turned down. Maybe they were just the first to say yes after a long list of 'no f-ing way's.

[feministxtian]

Slightly OT...this has totally screwed me up...I teach class remotely. I have my Zoom on one screen and constantly refreshing FJ on the other...Do y'all think you can stop posting from 2 to 6 pm mountain time??? Pretty please???

I'M JOKING!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ofDany]

Spoiler

BOND HEARING: CLOSING ARGUMENTS

THE PEST ARREST

Judge asked both sides to keep closing arguments to ~5 minutes since it was getting late.

Prosecution closing:

Nature and circumstances of charges:

Josh intentionally used Bit Torrent to receive CP.

Intentionally used linux partitions to hide what he was doing

Covenant Eyes does not pick up on what’s going on behind the partition

Josh took steps to conceal his activity by doing it on his work computer and avoid the recognition of Covenant Eyes.

-description of how horrific the CP found on Josh’s computer was-

Emphasized that the partition was password protected using a password linked with Josh’s other accounts which indicates that Josh, and not another employee, was behind the partition

Timeline in Exhibits 3 and 4 demonstrate that Josh was the one using the computer in May to download CP and throughout the day texting his family and using the computer for other uses

Discussion of Josh committing sexual abuse when he was a teenager.

Josh’s lack of movement in the past 17 months does not necessarily mean he wont be a flight risk now that circumstances are different

Nature and seriousness of the danger to the community:

We know the extent and the steps Josh will take to hide his actions. We know the kind of material depicted in the CSA that Josh had. We know he has a sexual attraction to children.

Not sure if the Reavers, Ms. Reaver in particular, understand the task that she would have to take on as third-party custodians.

Ms. Reaver doesn’t generally wanna be alone with a male. They have guns. They have minors at their place for piano lessons. Doesn’t make sense that they’d want turn their entire life around to do a favor for a family friend.

We know Josh has a history of “hands on” abuse, we’ve seen how sneaky he can be, AUSA asks that he be detained.

Defense closing:

Josh is presumed innocent of what hes accused of. A detention hearing is not the place to try this case.

Two prongs under Bail Reform Act: 1) Flight risk

DHS executed search warrant in November 2019, 17 months ago, but Josh has not fled since then. Voluntarily surrendered without issue.

Not a danger to the community. If law enforcement thought that he was a danger they could’ve detained him back in 2019, but they didn’t.

Probation officer Nguyen testified he has been fully compliant since he’s been arrested.

Judge asked the Reavers point blank if they were willing to report to the probation office first, and they said yes.

Law unambiguously points against detention, and the facts point against detention.

Court taking brief recess to collect thoughts and look through evidence. Asks Josh if he’s doing OK, or where he is in the detention center. He says “Sitting on a metal stool, Your Honor.”

First attempt at a spoiler - closing arguments from Reddit poster.

[xenobia]

8 minutes ago, J'Lurker said:

Well, the law student probably won't use the last four digits of their birthyear as a password so maybe it'll be okay.

I read the Reddit recap, and I got the impression that the password included - but wasn't only - his birthyear. If it was just the year, he could possibly have claimed that someone else hacked his account. Now that I think about it he will probably do that anyway. 

[SnarkyLawyer]

2 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

The reddit law student says they worked past tense for a DA. It's common for law students to work internships over the summer but study full time in the semesters. Personally, I did summer internships on top of summer classes, but only did one internship during a semester, as a 3L. So it's entirely possible that they got the link through unrelated means.

Concur with this. She would only put herself at risk if she obtained the link, through unethical methods. I kept a lot of contacts open, when I interned. 

[Jess]

1 minute ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I guess I assumed since these charges involve CP it would be closed?

No, I don’t believe there would be a reason to keep it closed. However, she shouldn’t be posting because the judge said not to. Based on what I have read I think she is just figuring reddit is not social media and it will be fine. I am sure if the judge finds out she did it and who she is they will not be amused. She will likely be talked to and the law school may talk to her as well. I don’t think they would do anything formally. If they complained formally it could in theory be used to delay her admission to the bar (I mean probably not because judges understand law students are people). I don’t think it would warrant preventing her from eventually be admitted.

[Rachel333]

6 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

Why are we sure its closed? Federal hearings are usually open to the public, and I thought this person just signed up to go and got a password. I agree that they were not supposed to publish it on social media until it was done.

That was my impression. I saw that WACB got on the zoom too, and that there were >100 people attending. 

[onekidanddone]

33 minutes ago, purple_summer said:

  Hide contents

Defense First Witness Maria Reaver:

She’s Asian. Did not expect that

“Are you aware of the charges brought against Mr. Duggar?” “Some”

Aware of the two charges here

No criminal history

Has a place where Josh can live in her house

Lives in Washington County

Has a mother-in-law kind of suite in her home that Josh should live in

Would be willing to abide by any conditions given by court

Would report any broken conditions to the court

(Defense attorney Travis Story is….not as good as Gelfand. Lots of stumbling and unclear wording. The reason my summary of this testimony is so choppy is because that’s how it’s being presented. Reaver giving pretty much just one word answers)

Adult daughter teaches piano at the Reaver home

A few minors come over for piano lessons

Location of piano lessons could be moved to a different place

Has a place to move the fire arms if need be

Mr. Reaver leaves for work at 6:30am and gets home at 4pm

Ms. Reaver and her daughter would be alone at home with Josh. The daughter would come and go throughout the day, possibly leaving Ms. Reaver home alone with Josh.

Ms. Reaver would be OK being alone with Josh.

Wants to be the third party custodian to help the family and “minister” to them

Story just says “That’s admirable.” and i laughed bro you’re not the one testifying here??

Ms. Reaver is willing to serve as third party custodian regardless of whatever rules the court chooses to impose. 
 

CX of Maria Reaver:

Reavers have neighbors, but each of them have about 5-10 acres of land so they’re pretty spread out.

Known the Duggar family for 5-6 years. From time-to-time would interact with Josh.

They’ve been inside the Duggar home. And been to a couple of weddings.

Never had a one-on-one conversation with Josh.

Never been alone with Josh.

Attended church them in 2015 when the sexual abuse allegations first came out, but wasn’t fully aware of them. Is aware of them now.

AUSA asks “Can you tell me what you know about the allegations?” Reaver pauses, is silent, and then says “Give me a minute.” Story objects, judge overrules.

“I don’t fully know everything but from my understanding there was some, uh, when he was younger, I’m not sure how old, maybe a teenager, that there was inappropriate touching of some of the minors.”

Was not aware that one of the minors was 5-years-old

“Does knowing that there was a 5 year old involved change your decision to serve as a third-party custodian?” “I’m looking at is as we are here to be as help, to the family, to Josh and Anna. To minister to them.”

Jim Bob called her husband and asked them to be the third party custodian because her husband and Jim Bob are good friends.

“Did you feel any pressure or obligation to serve as the third-party custodian?” “My husband has made the decision and I’m here to support that decision.”

More talk about ministry and serving others

If the conditions were violated she would alert the court before notifying her husband

Would not leave her adult daughter alone with Josh

“We don’t have internet-internet, our internet is in our phone, it’s like a hotspot. There’s no wifi. We don’t have cable. There is no hard wiring.” (side note: wtf?? It’s 2021)

Phones are password protected

Understands that if Josh is released to her home he could be there for 6 months.

Redirect of Maria Reaver:

Re iterates that she would alert the court directly if the conditions were violated

Questions from the judge:

First call if the conditions were violated would be to the US probation office (“Not your husband, not Jim Bob Duggar, not elders in the church”)

Daughter has been spoken to regarding relocation of the piano lessons

“This case has gotten a lot of publicity. And the last thing Mr. Duggar needs is an incident with a firearm.” Reaver says she’d remove firearms.

 

first defense witness

Gotta be some kind of special stupid to willingly have that trash in your house. Just because there are no children he is still a very dangerous sicko. No reason to believe that he won’t attack an adult when there are no children around 

[JenniferJuniper]

Just want to thank those who are posting the reddit stuff.  I can't navigate it at all.  Either it's too old or I'm too old, I haven't decided. 

[OrchidBlossom]

2 minutes ago, SnarkyLawyer said:

Concur with this. She would only put herself at risk if she obtained the link, through unethical methods. I kept a lot of contacts open, when I interned. 

Not me, earlier today, getting an email to catch up with someone who supervised me on an internship 6 years ago ?

[nelliebelle1197]

5 minutes ago, OrchidBlossom said:

That *is* a fair point, but at the same time there is NO WAY if they're with the USDA they didn't get a stern talking to about privacy before a link was distributed. Maybe it wouldn't deter them, I guess, but most law kids are neurotic about CYA during internships!

You never know. The temptation might be too much. If she gets caught in a (assuming it's) closed federal magistrate's courtroom doing this, I would not want to be her!

[Idlewild]

1 minute ago, MayMay1123 said:

I wonder if jb asked others before the rebers and was turned down. Maybe they were just the first to say yes after a long list of 'no f-ing way's.

Quite possible- I also think most of their friends would have children or grandchildren and would tell JB to get fucked.

It seem utterly ridiculous to me that a man who is accused of exploitative behaviour would be placed in the custody of someone who admits she is submissive to men. If he says he’s going out, meeting his wife or using her iPhone, what’s she going to do other than phone her husband?

[HarleyQuinn]

1 minute ago, Rachel333 said:

That was my impression. I saw that WACB got on the zoom too, and that there were >100 people attending. 

Is WACB Without A Crystal Ball? She took time off from stalking Tati Westbrook? Wow.

[sableduck]

2 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

Gotta be some kind of special stupid to willingly have that trash in your house. Just because there are no children he is still a very dangerous sicko. No reason to believe that he won’t attack an adult when there are no children around 

It also sounds like maybe Jim Bob wasn’t entirely forthcoming about the specifics of the past assaults as well as the current charges. Color me shocked.