[CW: Child Sex Abuse] Josh&Anna 28:Does anyone wonder how many times JB has phoned up Mike Huckabee?

[ma_demoiselle]

2 minutes ago, closetcagebaby said:

Tbf I would also be uncomfortable having him in my home BUT I ALSO WOULD NOT VOLUNTEER FOR THAT TASK. 

Sounds like she was probably coerced - er, I mean “guided by her headship” - into volunteering. 

[blackkatya]

3 minutes ago, purple_summer said:

And they own guns and the wife is uncomfortable being alone with him because he’s male???

Read the Reddit recap and it 100% feels like husband is pushing her to do it. I hope the judge sees they aren't appropriate supervision.

[purple_summer]

Spoiler

Defense First Witness Maria Reaver:

She’s Asian. Did not expect that

“Are you aware of the charges brought against Mr. Duggar?” “Some”

Aware of the two charges here

No criminal history

Has a place where Josh can live in her house

Lives in Washington County

Has a mother-in-law kind of suite in her home that Josh should live in

Would be willing to abide by any conditions given by court

Would report any broken conditions to the court

(Defense attorney Travis Story is….not as good as Gelfand. Lots of stumbling and unclear wording. The reason my summary of this testimony is so choppy is because that’s how it’s being presented. Reaver giving pretty much just one word answers)

Adult daughter teaches piano at the Reaver home

A few minors come over for piano lessons

Location of piano lessons could be moved to a different place

Has a place to move the fire arms if need be

Mr. Reaver leaves for work at 6:30am and gets home at 4pm

Ms. Reaver and her daughter would be alone at home with Josh. The daughter would come and go throughout the day, possibly leaving Ms. Reaver home alone with Josh.

Ms. Reaver would be OK being alone with Josh.

Wants to be the third party custodian to help the family and “minister” to them

Story just says “That’s admirable.” and i laughed bro you’re not the one testifying here??

Ms. Reaver is willing to serve as third party custodian regardless of whatever rules the court chooses to impose. 
 

CX of Maria Reaver:

Reavers have neighbors, but each of them have about 5-10 acres of land so they’re pretty spread out.

Known the Duggar family for 5-6 years. From time-to-time would interact with Josh.

They’ve been inside the Duggar home. And been to a couple of weddings.

Never had a one-on-one conversation with Josh.

Never been alone with Josh.

Attended church them in 2015 when the sexual abuse allegations first came out, but wasn’t fully aware of them. Is aware of them now.

AUSA asks “Can you tell me what you know about the allegations?” Reaver pauses, is silent, and then says “Give me a minute.” Story objects, judge overrules.

“I don’t fully know everything but from my understanding there was some, uh, when he was younger, I’m not sure how old, maybe a teenager, that there was inappropriate touching of some of the minors.”

Was not aware that one of the minors was 5-years-old

“Does knowing that there was a 5 year old involved change your decision to serve as a third-party custodian?” “I’m looking at is as we are here to be as help, to the family, to Josh and Anna. To minister to them.”

Jim Bob called her husband and asked them to be the third party custodian because her husband and Jim Bob are good friends.

“Did you feel any pressure or obligation to serve as the third-party custodian?” “My husband has made the decision and I’m here to support that decision.”

More talk about ministry and serving others

If the conditions were violated she would alert the court before notifying her husband

Would not leave her adult daughter alone with Josh

“We don’t have internet-internet, our internet is in our phone, it’s like a hotspot. There’s no wifi. We don’t have cable. There is no hard wiring.” (side note: wtf?? It’s 2021)

Phones are password protected

Understands that if Josh is released to her home he could be there for 6 months.

Redirect of Maria Reaver:

Re iterates that she would alert the court directly if the conditions were violated

Questions from the judge:

First call if the conditions were violated would be to the US probation office (“Not your husband, not Jim Bob Duggar, not elders in the church”)

Daughter has been spoken to regarding relocation of the piano lessons

“This case has gotten a lot of publicity. And the last thing Mr. Duggar needs is an incident with a firearm.” Reaver says she’d remove firearms.

 

first defense witness

Edited May 5, 2021 by purple_summer
Add description

[xenobia]

1 minute ago, Galbin said:

Maria Reaver: "My husband has made the decision and I am here to support that decision."

She clearly is steeped in fundamentalism!

I was just about to quote the same thing. The suggested third party custodians wife doesn't seem to have a clue about what Josh has been up to. But it wouldn't matter anyway for her since her husband made the decision. Yuck. For the millionth time today. 

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by xenobia
double post

[QuiverFullofBooks]

4 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

How were Amy and other Duggar relatives able to get access to the Zoom link?  

We don’t know. It’s possible that they’re going to testify.

[jakesykora]

2 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Before today's hearing?  But she's still volunteering to have him in her home?

They (witnesses) were sequestered today, I believe it said, so I'm not sure she even knows what's going on currently!

Her reply was a total minimization of the molestation and even that she hardly seemed to know about. (This really sounds like someone who has no idea what her husband is getting her roped into...)

It didn't even read like she totally knew the current stuff (let alone the extent of that!)

[OrchidBlossom]

10 minutes ago, purple_summer said:

And they own guns and the wife is uncomfortable being alone with him because he’s male???

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by OrchidBlossom
I was wrong, I went and re-read

[ofDany]

Not only did she not know what she was signing up for, she may not have had any choice since she also says that Hhr husband made the choice and she is respecting his decision.  They were asked by JB.  No pressure there...

They want to "help" and "minister" to Josh and Anna.  They do NOT seem like an appropriate choice.  The space is one he can leave without their knowledge (exterior door).  They own guns and have piano lessons with little kids there.

[bettertomarry]

4 minutes ago, purple_summer said:

First call if the conditions were violated would be to the US probation office (“Not your husband, not Jim Bob Duggar, not elders in the church”)

What's the likelihood of that happening? /s

[luv2laugh]

WTF. Josh is your kid. JB can live alone with Josh in one of his many houses he owns! WTF. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by luv2laugh

[seraaa]

10 minutes ago, jakesykora said:

Yes and the judge specified that if it had been handled in juvenile court it would have been sealed but the Duggars have been public about it and it was in the not too distant past, and safety of the community is the judge's concern.

They weren't public about it by choice, and now it's being used to potentially deny him bail. So that's potententially another layer of emotional complexity around the issue for his sisters to grapple with.

This whole thing is awful.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, seraaa said:

They weren't public about it by choice, and now it's being used to potentially deny him bail. So that's potententially another layer of emotional complexity around the issue for his sisters to grapple with.

This whole thing is awful.

No, that's one of the few things about this that's actually good.  I don't see what's complex about that.  If they don't take it into account and others get hurt it's not going to alleviate their trauma.

[seraaa]

9 minutes ago, Galbin said:

Maria Reaver: "My husband has made the decision and I am here to support that decision."

She clearly is steeped in fundamentalism!

I hate it.

[Antimony]

Just now, seraaa said:

They weren't public about it by choice, and now it's being used to potentially deny him bail. So that's potententially another layer of emotional complexity around the issue for his sisters to grapple with.

This whole thing is awful.

They were public by choice to a degree. The original identification of the files wasn't -- that's fair. But going on Megyn Kelly? A choice (made by Jim Bob, we're sure). It's a good point -- if the parents had handled it legally to begin with, it would actually be sealed. 

[seraaa]

2 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

No, that's one of the few things about this that's actually good.  I don't see what's complex about that.  If they don't take it into account and others get hurt it's not going to alleviate their trauma.

Complex in the sense that they probably sincerely prefer it had never happened, because it emotionally harmed them when it did, but it also as you say is now being used in service of protecting others.

Edited May 5, 2021 by seraaa

[QuiverFullofBooks]

2 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

I’m mad JB called the Reaver husband. WTF. Josh is your kid. JB can live alone with Josh in one of his many houses he owns! WTF. It’s obvious the SAHD that teaches piano and wife didn’t want this.

There’s no way the court would approve Jim Bob as the custodian. It’s not like he’s been able to control Josh during the past 19 years.

[SnarkyLawyer]

16 minutes ago, jakesykora said:

Second witness testimony thread has been added now, as well, by the person viewing on the stream summarizing after watching and posting on reddit.

I'm not sure how you do the spoiler thing so I'll let someone else bring it over who can.

It includes proposed 3rd parties to babysit Josh.

FWIW: I believe the person doing the summary to be credible. Too many details and basic legal knowledge to be able to make this up.

Assuming that's true, I freaking KNEW Travis Story was going to try and bumble his way through. Also, I'm really surprised Jim Bob didn't go out of his way to find a 3rd party custodian that prosecutors wouldn't object to. In fact, I would have thought that would be at the forefront of all conversations between Defense and Prosecutor, over the last several days.

[luv2laugh]

I’m confused.

Edited May 5, 2021 by luv2laugh

[Jinderella]

6 minutes ago, ofDany said:

Not only did she not know what she was signing up for, she may not have had any choice since she also says that Hhr husband made the choice and she is respecting his decision.  They were asked by JB.  No pressure there...

They want to "help" and "minister" to Josh and Anna.  They do NOT seem like an appropriate choice.  The space is one he can leave without their knowledge (exterior door).  They own guns and have piano lessons with little kids there.

Does JB really want him out on bail?

[Giraffe]

I’m taking it as a really good thing that the wife was honest about why she agreed! Hopefully the judge uses it to deny bail!! It also gives the judge some idea of what a shit human JB is, too. 

[blackkatya]

Just now, luv2laugh said:

Questions from the judge:

First call if the conditions were violated would be to the US probation office (“Not your husband, not Jim Bob Duggar, not elders in the church”)

This judge seems to know what's up and that makes me hopeful.

[purple_summer]

1 minute ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

There’s no way the court would approve Jim Bob as the custodian. It’s not like he’s been able to control Josh during the past 19 years.

I don't think they're making a good case for the reavers either

[ofDany]

The second defense witness summary has been posted on reddit.  I don't know how to add it, so I won't.  But it was ridiculously short, hopefully because the judge is not seriously considering these people to be his guardians.

[jakesykora]

Second defense witness (if someone will please spoiler it. TIA!)

Defense second witness: LaCount Reaver

Has firearms in the house, but would be willing to relocate them outside the house

Willing to serve as third-party custodian along with his wife

????THAT’S IT?? Literally 3 questions

CX:

Was aware of Duggars’ charges specifically

Was not aware of all the details, such as that toddlers were involved

But does not change his opinion of being the third party custodian

Jim Bob Duggar was the one who reached out to them first

JB asked if it was something he could think about, pray about, being a part of

JB referenced Reaver’s involvement with prison ministry as making him a potentially good third-party custodian

Has known the Duggars for 6-8 years

Knew them in 2015

Didn’t know the exact details but was familiar with “some charges” related to him

Knew that the minors resided in the house where Josh resided

Was not part of the church in 2005.

No hesitation about leaving his daughter or wife alone with Josh

No implication that he would get anything in return for housing Josh

He’s a volunteer chaplain at Washington County jail but that’s been halted because of COVID-19

Not necessarily interested in offering counseling for Josh

Willing to call US Probation directly if Josh violates conditions

Has “phone internet” and “uses that for the computer.”

Says he’s a “3 or 4” on a scale of 1-10 of tech savviness

Phone is locked with a pin

Did not know Josh is tech savvy

Last time he spoke with Josh one-on-one was more than a year ago

Not sure if his wife has ever had a one-on-one conversation with Josh

“Is it common practice in your marriage that when your wife interacts with men that there should be a chaperone there?” “I think that would be best.”

Says that his wife should be around Josh with another person, not necessarily a male, could be a daughter

Is a family, they discuss things, they both prayed and decided to do it

“When a family is in need and they ask you for help, I think that’s something anyone would do”

Questions from the judge:

Willing to remove firearms if Josh is released to his custody

Will under no circumstances reveal his password to his phone or computers to Josh

“If you or your wife or your daughter observe or learn about a violation by Mr. Duggar I need to hear you say that your first call will be the US probation officer who’s supervising this case?” He says yes.

Judge: “The time for prayer, and conversations with Jim Bob, and with the elders of the church, that will happen after calling the probation office.”

Defense closes case. Closing arguments now.

[Angelface]

59 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

If you're a member of the jury or judge trying the case, yes.  Members of the public have no such obligation and lecturing people on his presumption of innocence right now is....tone deaf.

 

Apologies. Now edited.