Spanky Sproul 5: Grace for Me but Never for Thee (Unless Thou Payest Me)

[Katzchen24]

It's on their FB now. 

Why do I feel like they're using "sexual confusion" as a euphemism for anyone LGBTQI+, regardless of the point they're at in their journey? For an example, I think Spanky and Lisa would call an out lesbian of 25 years standing sexually confused because they don't accept anything other than cis-het as valid, 

Just as a reminder Spanky and Lisa, things that are none of your damn business include:

1) Which genitals are attached to your loved one,

2) Which genitals your loved one wants attached to them, and

3) Who your loved one shares those genitals with*. 

If you have trouble dealing with any of the points above, the best person to speak to is a properly qualified counsellor who can help you to not be such a pair of bigoted assholes.

This has put me into a fury about the Spanky and Lisa brand of Christian who can't bear that consenting adults may have their own ideas about how sex and relationships work for them YET DO THEIR LEVEL BEST TO CONCEAL AND PROTECT PAEDOPHILES AND ABUSERS WITHIN THEIR OWN CHURCHES. Spanky is such an unbelievable hypocrite. 

 

Edit* I realised after I posted that I should have said that sexuality is way more than just genitals, but I'm going to leave it there because I was trying to make a point.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Katzchen24
Because I came across like a bit of an asshole myself.

[Banyan]

15 hours ago, Katzchen24 said:

Spanky is such an unbelievable hypocrite. 

I think we're all sometimes capable of hypocrisy. But the Sprouls have normalized hypocrisy. Almost everything that comes out of their mouths is hypocritical in the extreme. I wonder what cluster of personality disorders it takes to get to such extraordinary levels of habitual hypocrisy? I'm sure Pathological Liar and NPD play a part. But is there more?

Contributing to Rev. Pastor Dr. RC Sproul Jr's hypocrisy is his frequent characterizing of his marriage to Lisa as "sacred." But as a commenter noted on Spinderella Sproul, Rev. Pastor Dr. RC Sproul Jr took advantage of his position of marriage counselor to steal Lisa away from her husband.

Quote

I agree it's sinful that RC Sproul Jr is trying to scam Christians. But it's just money which is a lot less horrible than stealing something really important like someone's wife.

"In addition to Lisa Ringel's 3 divorces, it came to the attention of RC Jr's Presbytery that he'd been giving Lisa what amounted to marriage counseling since 2013, all without her husband's consent, participation, or knowledge. Ultimately RC Jr encouraged Lisa to divorce her third husband, David Ringel. Within days of Lisa filing for divorce RC Jr traveled to Fort Wayne to propose marriage."

Stealing another man's wife is about as wicked as it gets. But what RC Sproul Jr did is the lowest sneakiest most dastardly wife stealing scheme imaginable. And he was a pastor at the time too, which makes it a hundred times worse.

But, yeah, Rev. Pastor Dr. RC Sproul Jr's marriage is "sacred." Anyone who says otherwise shall be destroyed, especially his own children and their deceased mother.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Banyan

[MamaJunebug]

@Katzchen24 : Hear, hear!

And hear, hear! some more!!!

 

[hoipolloi]

18 hours ago, Katzchen24 said:

Edit* I realised after I posted that I should have said that sexuality is way more than just genitals, but I'm going to leave it there because I was trying to make a point.

Well, for many fundies, genitals are all that matter. It is a profoundly ironic as well as an incredibly ridiculous position to take, when you consider the reality:

Each of us has seen or encountered probably thousands of people in our lives, nearly all of whom clearly present to us as identifiable males or females, which we don't question at all. In the cases of only an infinitesimally small number of those thousands have we also seen their genitals -- partners/spouses, our children, maybe athletic team mates, a few more if you're a nudist.

Consequently, for the vast majority of the other humans we see, then, we accept their presented identities without needing to see their genitalia. We have no difficulty doing so, and this even includes fundies. Unless they are arguing that we should be able to see others' genitalia at all times in order to "be sure" of presented identities, the fundies' position has no merit or logic -- except, perhaps, to highlight once again the fundie obsession with other people's bodies and how to control them.

Edited February 27, 2021 by hoipolloi

[Katzchen24]

There's another episode of Whine About Your Children up on Spanky's YouTube channel. I think this one is called "Throw your children under the bus vii". I read a tiny bit of the transcript but got as far as Spanky saying that the Devil was involved before noping out of there. Seriously, why won't these two just shut up like adults and behave with some kind of dignity??

[Howl]

1 hour ago, Katzchen24 said:

Spanky saying that the Devil was involved

I'm pretty sure the Devil is involved, but NOT in the way that Lisa and The Spanks assume. 

[Banyan]

5 hours ago, Katzchen24 said:

There's another episode of Whine About Your Children up on Spanky's YouTube channel.

Thanks for the heads up.

Something interesting from the transcript.

Quote

09:08 "In the course of that conversation, one of these conversations, uh my mother tells me that she's gonna cut me off. I don't know that was that was just huge. Just very very painful and very very hurtful and not something that we had you know wanted to go and shout out to the world. For one thing it's embarrassing to me but that's what happened."

Pastor Rev. Dr. RC Sproul Jr proceeds to trash his mother, and for some reason his sister too. "Cut me off" implies Mother Sproul terminated his six figure independent contractor agreement. Spinderella Sproul has said that happened sometime in 2019.  Yes, it must be very very hurtful for Pastor Rev. Dr. RC Sproul Jr to have to face the reality that just because your name is Sproul you're not entitled to a six figure income for doing nothing.

It's worth posting a screen shot of a comment that's not likely to last long over there.

[Katzchen24]

22 minutes ago, Banyan said:

Something interesting from the transcript.

Pastor Rev. Dr. RC Sproul Jr proceeds to trash his mother, and for some reason his sister too. "Cut me off" implies Mother Sproul terminated his six figure independent contractor agreement. Spinderella Sproul has said that happened sometime in 2019.  Yes, it must be very very hurtful for Pastor Rev. Dr. RC Sproul Jr to have to face the reality that just because your name is Sproul you're not entitled to a six figure income for doing nothing.

Wow, that's a big bit of news. I wonder if this was what sparked his interest in building his own church? As for the comment, it will either not last long, or one of our heroes will respond with a long reason why it's not their fault. Spanky and Lisa just can't keep their mouths shut. In fact, I can picture them showing up on one of those old super-trashy daytime shows like Jerry Springer, spewing their venom and then feeling hard done by when everyone boo's them. 

[older than allosaurs]

According to the transcript, the final straw for Vesta was that RCJR not only retracted his blessing for Delaney and JTits' wedding, but tried to stop it entirely. His reasoning was that any child so sinful as to talk to her siblings about their new stepmother would make a bad wife, and any fiance so lacking in command as to let her talk that way would make a bad husband. Somehow he seems to think that telling this to the world will gain him points.

I remember that way back then he was lecturing someone on Facebook that since he and Lisa were one flesh, she was now the God-given mother to all of his children -- including the adults kids already out of the house -- and everybody had better get used to it. As a parent and stepparent, I didn't think that was likely to be a winning strategy.

It makes me unreasonably happy that the acronym for these Sacred Marriage podcasts is SMUF.

[hoipolloi]

11 hours ago, Katzchen24 said:

There's another episode of Whine About Your Children up on Spanky's YouTube channel. I think this one is called "Throw your children under the bus vii".

Listened to this and wow -- seems like the only person they haven't thrown under the bus yet is RC Sr. 

Good for Vesta for sticking up for Delaney & JTits. While you KNOW there was a lot more to Spanky's conversations with his parents at that time, I'll bet it's true that Vesta said she'd cut him off. It also seems highly unlikely that RC Sr & Vesta would have had different opinions on this situation.

What did Doug & Be-All think about Spanky telling their son the following?

Quote

...Any daughter who will treat her father, the authority in her life, the way she's treated me i don't feel comfortable giving to you, because she will not honor you. So I want you to take a year, I want you guys to work this thing through ... and then we can talk...

This makes that all-family wedding photo from their 2017 nuptials that much more interesting:

 

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by hoipolloi
Clarity

[Katzchen24]

@Banyan called it. The comment from Cheap Scott is gone from the Smurf vii post. I'm so happy I could dance though because I kind of called it too - there's a new comment and it's a beauty. I've put it under the spoiler for your entertainment.

Spoiler

 

This profile had only been existence for 8 hours when I checked it. Can't decide if it's Lisa trying to be anonymous, or a genuine sycophant! 

 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

11 minutes ago, Katzchen24 said:

Can't decide if it's Lisa trying to be anonymous, or a genuine sycophant! 

Or maybe Lisa found someone to post her words/ideas, but in a less overwrought way with better writing? That seems way too well written (imo) to be Queen Lisa.

[Banyan]

2 hours ago, Katzchen24 said:

@Banyan called it. The comment from Cheap Scott is gone from the Smurf vii post. I'm so happy I could dance though because I kind of called it too - there's a new comment and it's a beauty. I've put it under the spoiler for your entertainment.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

This profile had only been existence for 8 hours when I checked it. Can't decide if it's Lisa trying to be anonymous, or a genuine sycophant! 

 

My money is on RC Jr. Too well written to be Lisa. Reformed Pub is an all too obvious plagiarism of reformedpub.com and The Reformed Pubcast. The two young hosts, Les and Tanner, spent much of their time focused on craft beer and "Christian liberty" i.e. getting liquored up. RC Jr, being a favorite of their Young, Restless, and Reformed audience, and the leading promoter and expert on "Christian liberty," not to mention being one of those rare pastors who threw church keggers, was a regular guest. Les and Tanner were fans of Ligonier and did do a live broadcast from the Ligonier conference 5 years ago. Not long after that their podcast channel went silent and their web site went offline. Les and Tanner earned a frat boy reputation over their obsession with Christian liberty. The nail in their coffin appears to have coincided with RC Jr's Christian liberty drunk driving arrest. Does it make any sense for Les or Tanner to create a new account just today only to post a comment joining RC Jr in bashing his mother and children? Not unless they were drunk. Yes, they're YRR (or maybe they've matured and aren't anymore?), but they don't appear to be douche bags eager to bash someone else's mother and kids. Also, taking their ages into account it's unlikely either one are old enough to have "served in leadership alongside" RC Sproul Sr or to have been "an attendee of Saint Andrews for almost two decades" (RC Sr's church). I call BS.

EDIT: Reading it again I'm now convinced it was a joint project. First draft written by Lisa but copy edited by Spanky. There are way too many Lisa-tells (including oblique praise to herself for "the enormous change in" RC Jr since marrying Lisa), to have been written by Spanky alone, but there are too few typos to have been written by Lisa alone.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Banyan

[MamaJunebug]

21 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Listened to this and wow -- seems like the only person they haven't thrown under the bus yet is RC Sr. 

Good for Vesta for sticking up for Delaney & JTits. While you KNOW there was a lot more to Spanky's conversations with his parents at that time, I'll bet it's true that Vesta said she'd cut him off. It also seems highly unlikely that RC Sr & Vesta would have had different opinions on this situation.

What did Doug & Be-All think about Spanky telling their son the following?

This makes that all-family wedding photo from their 2017 nuptials that much more interesting:

 

 

The younger brothers are absent from the photo. Lousy move, Spanks & Lisa!!!

[older than allosaurs]

22 hours ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

Or maybe Lisa found someone to post her words/ideas, but in a less overwrought way with better writing? That seems way too well written (imo) to be Queen Lisa.

Here's another theory from a frequent commenter:
 

Quote

 

Sam Adams 8 hours ago

Les? Tanner? Good to see you guys! Are you ever going to bring back The Reformed Pubcast?

 

 

[Banyan]

13 hours ago, older than allosaurs said:

Here's another theory from a frequent commenter:

And a reply to Sam Adams with a theory of their own:

Mr. and Mrs. Rev. Pastor Dr. RC Sproul Jr have so thoroughly burned all their bridges that the only vocal supporters they have left are their sock puppets.

[Sarcastically spinster]

On 3/3/2021 at 8:21 PM, Banyan said:

Reformed Pub is an all too obvious plagiarism of reformedpub.com and The Reformed Pubcast. The two young hosts, Les and Tanner, spent much of their time focused on craft beer and "Christian liberty"

I've been familiar-ish with the Pubcast for some time.  That comment doesn't at all look like a fit for the hosts of the podcast.  My money is on someone trying to use the name for added credibility/visibility.  

[bea]

Craft beer and Christian liberty.

I guess you can start a podcast about ANYTHING.

[Howl]

On 3/2/2021 at 10:10 PM, older than allosaurs said:

the final straw for Vesta was that RCJR not only retracted his blessing for Delaney and JTits' wedding, but tried to stop it entirely. 

and 

Quote

Any daughter who will treat her father, the authority in her life, the way she's treated me i don't feel comfortable giving to you

Spanky is that nasty Venn diagram where the narcissist, the dry drunk alcoholic, the patriarchal authoritarian all overlap in one massively toxic personality. 

And this horror -- Spanky thinking he'll have the final say in the marriage, because...see paragraph above: 

Quote

So I want you to take a year, I want you guys to work this thing through ... and then we can talk...

And might I say that I think Lisa is behind ALL of this?

One more thing...do y'all think that when RC Jr. says Vesta cut him off, does that mean: Relationship? Financial? Both? 

I can easily see a scenario where Vesta just couldn't take Lisa + Spanky any more, but Spank-Li are still on the Ligonier dole, because the health and well being of Vesta's grandchildren are involved and she wants to keep a roof over their heads.  

I have to contemplate this because you have a household of two adults w/ two growing boys,  big mortgage, groceries, utilities, phone/internet bill, maybe car payments, clothing, health insurance, all the damn things that suck money, and neither adult is working or has a way to make money, other than grifting and Spanky doesn't have the kind of followers who will keep that leaking ship afloat. 

I'll wild guess their burn rate at from $3,500 to $5,000/month. 

I'm also going to wild guess that Jr.'s DUI (lawyer's fees, court costs, rehab, fines, car repairs), set them back between $50,000 and $100,000 or more. 

 

 

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

I can easily see a scenario where Vesta just couldn't take Lisa + Spanky any more, but Spank-Li are still on the Ligonier dole, because the health and well being of Vesta's grandchildren are involved and she wants to keep a roof over their heads.

Excellent point and, sadly, probably true. There is no evidence that Queen Lisa has any gainful employment, her MaryKay business & whatever else notwithstanding. Spanky only grifts -- that's all he knows how to do now.  

1 hour ago, Howl said:

And might I say that I think Lisa is behind ALL of this?

It absolutely originates with Queen Lisa, and Spanky is happy to go along. What a toxic pair. 

[Banyan]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

Spanky is that nasty Venn diagram where the narcissist, the dry drunk alcoholic, the patriarchal authoritarian all overlap in one massively toxic personality. 

I never considered how these things overlap and feed off one another until you brought it up. But you're so right! I found a fascinating article: 11 Ways Narcissists and Alcoholics are Similar. It describes Rev. Pastor Dr. RC Spoul Jr to a tee. Recovery from either one alone seems extremely challenging. But when they come packaged together? And then on top of that being married to an enabling narcissist like Lisa? No hope. Lost cause.

Lisa and Spanky, umm I mean "Reformed Pub," receive yet another reply to Throw Your Family Under The Bus VII (it's actually episode VIII, but with the alcohol psychosis he's finding math hard):

Edited March 5, 2021 by Banyan

[MamaJunebug]

10 hours ago, Banyan said:

And a reply to Sam Adams with a theory of their own:

Mr. and Mrs. Rev. Pastor Dr. RC Sproul Jr have so thoroughly burned all their bridges that the only vocal supporters they have left are their sock puppets.

I know you didn’t mean to, but you missed a couple  It’s actually:

Their Royal Majesties King RC and Queen Lisa, Mrs. and Mr. Reverend Doctor Pastor Bon Vivants Sproul. 
 

You can pay me (out of gratitude) later.  

[Banyan]

On 3/5/2021 at 11:02 AM, Howl said:

One more thing...do y'all think that when RC Jr. says Vesta cut him off, does that mean: Relationship? Financial? Both? 

Probably both. But getting cut off financially would be far more hurtful to him than getting cut off relationally. After all he's had no qualms about publicly trashing and cutting off his own children, which also means he has nothing to do with his own grandchildren. Rev. Pastor Dr. RC Sproul Jr's track record proves he values money far more than relationships. Relationships are only of value to him so long as they can be used to lead to more money. A comment posted last November from a former member of Rev. Pastor Dr. RC Sproul Jr's church says he was cut off financially from Ligonier in June 2019:

Quote

I was able to confirm with a source at Ligonier Ministries (they agreed to speak if I promised to not repeat their name) that RC worked as a Ligonier independent contractor in 2019 but his contract ended in June. Since then he hasn't worked for Ligonier. They didn't know if Ligonier would be giving him any additional projects in the future.

From another source I learned that RC and Lisa have been subsisting off food stamps and welfare. They also beg for donations, raising money to supposedly buy land and build a church building. The fund raising isn't going too well (people are rightly skeptical he's just pocketing the money).

But I think getting "cut off" probably goes beyond Spanky losing his six figure Ligonier Ministries independent contractor shakedown. Getting "cut off" probably also means he was written out of the family will, potentially costing him millions. Spanky's outrageous behavior has forced Vesta to side with her grandchildren. With his horrific track record he obviously can't be trusted with money. So it would make sense for Vesta cut him out of the will and give it to his children instead.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Banyan

[hoipolloi]

56 minutes ago, Banyan said:

Getting "cut off" probably also means he was written out of the family will, potentially costing him millions. Spanky's outrageous behavior has forced Vesta to side with her grandchildren. With his horrific track record he obviously can't be trusted with money. So it would make sense for Vesta cut him out of the will and give it to his children instead.

Wonder if Vesta's will changed recently, or if Spanky & Lisa just became aware of such changes?

They've been hideous to the adult Sproul children all along but there seems to be a more recent spate of abuse directed at them and it now includes Vesta specifically. 

[LydiaAnn]

Well, guess who has ANOTHER book coming out....? It’s a pop up on Lisa’s blog. 

https://thepurposedrivenwife.com/motherhood/f/unspoken-truths