Spanky Sproul 5: Grace for Me but Never for Thee (Unless Thou Payest Me)

[Howl]

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"Take, for example, your Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Victim Complex..." 

Yup, throwing some major shade on Lisa, and I'm assuming this comment can't be removed. 

[Banyan]

11 minutes ago, Howl said:

I'm assuming this comment can't be removed. 

I wouldn't know. But with Lisa's history of deleting comments... Here's another screen shot in the same YouTube thread.

[Howl]

3 minutes ago, Banyan said:

Here's another screen shot in the same YouTube thread.

There's a serious implication that The Very Reverend DUI took a payout from the Sitler fam...to KEEP QUIET ABOUT THE MOLESTATION OF SPANKY'S OWN CHILDREN.   I had never heard  that before. Holy Frijoles!

That said, the Sitlers and Doug Wilson went to huge lengths to (successfully) keep Stephen from serving a lengthy prison sentence.  I can't remember if Sitler did any prison time or just served his time in jail. 

I'd assume that the parents of various victims were strong armed by Doug Wilson to stay quiet; I'd never contemplated that payouts could be involved.  What played out makes more sense when that's considered as a possibility. 

[Banyan]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

I'd assume that the parents of various victims were strong armed by Doug Wilson to stay quiet; I'd never contemplated that payouts could be involved.  What played out makes more sense when that's considered as a possibility. 

From everything I've read (and there's a ton of it out there) the parents in Doug Wilson's church were strong armed by Doug Wilson. I haven't seen anything though indicating any of the parents received payoffs. What has been said on several sites is that it's likely Doug Wilson and RC Sproul Jr received payoffs from the wealthy Sitler family to coerce the victim families of their churches to not report Sitler's crimes or cooperate with the police.

In RC Sproul Jr's Steven Sitler Pedophile Cover Up, they explain why it's only logical to assume Wilson and Sproul received payoffs. Two different pedophiles were molesting children in Wilson's church at the same time. They were treated very differently though, but not in the way we'd expect. Steven Sitler molested dozens of children, and Jamin Wight molested one 14 year old. But who got the greater support from Wilson? Steven Sitler did. Wilson's defense of Sitler continued for years, up to and through encouraging Sitler to marry, and even after Sitler had a son and molested the boy.

The only way this story makes sense is if Doug Wilson took a payoff from the wealthy Sitler family. Once you arrive there it follows that Doug Wilson arranged a Sitler family payoff for RC Sproul Jr to buy his silence too. Everything about RC Jr's actions about Sitler are completely consistent with a man who was bought off.

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Those of us who know RC Jr well know him to be a greedy, duplicitous, unscrupulous man. Would RC Jr accept a bribe, even if it meant selling out his own children? Yes, and we have no doubt about it.

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Banyan

[hoipolloi]

46 minutes ago, Banyan said:

The only way this story makes sense is if Doug Wilson took a payoff from the wealthy Sitler family. Once you arrive there it follows that Doug Wilson arranged a Sitler family payoff for RC Sproul Jr to buy his silence too. Everything about RC Jr's actions about Sitler are completely consistent with a man who was bought off.

It does make sense. Given Spanky's long history of grift & outright thievery over the decades of his "ministries," him taking a bribe to remain silent about Steven Sitler's abuse while in VA is quite believable.

 

[Katzchen24]

3 hours ago, Banyan said:

I wouldn't know. But with Lisa's history of deleting comments... Here's another screen shot in the same YouTube thread.

Lucky you did this. From the looks of things, the final two comments by @useratusername are gone. I don't know if Lisa would have been able to delete them or if it was the original poster.

It turns out our dear Professional Victim Lisa turned up on Yogioabs next video about Ravi Zacharias being cancelled. 

Spoiler

It really worries me that she's watching this asshole's videos. It lines her quite firmly up with the worst of repressive christian patriarchy. It makes me wonder where Spanky's beliefs are heading too.

 

[Howl]

2 hours ago, Banyan said:

Wilson's defense of Sitler continued for years, up to and through encouraging Sitler to marry, and even after Sitler had a son and molested the boy.

Was this proven?  Did Sitler end up back in jail? Considering the fact that Sitler was considered to have an untreatable compulsion to molest children, I assumed that he did eventually and may still be molesting his son, in spite of the bizarre chaperon requirement. I'm not aware that he and his wife had more children, though. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Howl

[Banyan]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

Was this proven?  Did Sitler end up back in jail?

Yes, and no. Judge Stegner ordered Sitler be remanded to the custody of Idaho State for life, and to serve a minimum of 5 years in prison. But Wilson intervened and pleaded for leniency. Sitler spent a grand total of just 20 months in the Latah County Jail before being paroled. He never went to the State Pen as would have happened in normal pedophile cases. While incarcerated he was regularly released unsupervised for appointments including counseling, which scared a lot of Moscow residents since they were never informed when a known predator would be on the loose. Stegner also approved Steven Sitler's marriage to Katie Travers, the "courtship" of which Wilson had a lot to do with arranging in the first place. Wilson performed the marriage ceremony. Many in Moscow were enraged not just with Wilson but also Judge Stegner for his lenient rulings in the Sitler case. Stegner approved a plea deal in which Sitler pled guilty to just one count of lewd conduct with a child under 16 when he was aware Sitler had molested dozens of boys and girls ages 2-12. The big problem in bringing additional charges was getting Christ Church parents to cooperate in the police investigations. Not uncommon in cults where a cult leader holds the threat of "church discipline" over the heads of his followers. It seems clear Wilson intimidated parents from having their children testify.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Banyan

[Giraffe]

4 minutes ago, Banyan said:

...But Wilson intervened and pleaded for leniency. Sitler spent a grand total of just 20 months in the Latah County Jail before being paroled...

This enrages me! There are certain crimes leniency shouldn't be an option!

[Banyan]

16 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

This enrages me! There are certain crimes leniency shouldn't be an option!

Can you even imagine how the good people of Moscow Idaho feel about it all? Well, no need to wonder. From everything I've read (and there's an awful lot of it) they're absolutely furious. The blow back over Doug Wilson's duplicity in the Steven Silter scandal has been so intense that several CREC pastors around the country pulled their churches out of the CREC.

Here's a quote from Spinderella Sproul,

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The Latah County Sheriff's office made many attempts at interviewing the parents of child victims they'd positively identified. Their investigative efforts were hampered when confronted with the fortress psyche of a sociological cult. It was apparent Wilson was using the confessions he extracted from Sitler to make contact with parents of victim children and dissuade them from cooperating with the Sheriff's office. Wilson informed victim families Sitler would deny his earlier confessions and take the case to trial. Wilson conveyed that Sitler's defense attorney, Dean Wullenwaber (who was also NSA's attorney), would compel any child victims to take the stand in court and subject them to harsh cross-examination. In Wilson's words this would "re-victimize the victims." The fact is any child victims would not have been subjected to such intimidation tactics in court or anywhere else. Wilson well knew it but, as a direct result of his "Let's protect the victims" campaign, no parent, other than the father who originally reported Sitler, cooperated with the Sheriff's investigation. Phone calls to victim parents were never returned, letters were never answered, and interviews could never be conducted. Under Doug Wilson's duplicitous leadership Christ Church circled the wagons. Wilson used the victims as human shields, all under the guise of "protecting them." In reality Wilson was only protecting himself and the child molester.

In my view Wilson should have been charged with obstruction of justice.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Banyan

[hoipolloi]

This 2016 account indicates that Sitler is supposedly on probation for life, with reporting requirements and various restrictions, including not residing with his wife and child. 

According to the Idaho sex offender registry, Sitler is currently in compliance & still living in Moscow. It isn't clear if he's been allowed to resume living with his wife & child or if he still has to live apart from them.

[Katzchen24]

27 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

According to the Idaho sex offender registry, Sitler is currently in compliance & still living in Moscow.

That photo...... I don't know if I'd be smiling if I was on a sex offender registry

[Columbia]

1 hour ago, Banyan said:

Judge Stegner ordered Sitler be remanded to the custody of Idaho State for life, and to serve a minimum of 5 years in prison. But Wilson intervened and pleaded for leniency. Sitler spent a grand total of just 20 months in the Latah County Jail before being paroled.

I still can’t believe Wilson pulled that off. Do you know if the judge had connections to Christ Church?

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

27 minutes ago, Katzchen24 said:

That photo...... I don't know if I'd be smiling if I was on a sex offender registry

It looks like they probably used his driver's license photo. 

[Removed incorrect information about address. Sorry.]

(Side note, a convicted murder/pedophile who was caught in Idaho died recently. Goodbye and good riddance Joseph Duncan.)

Edited March 29, 2021 by WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?
mistake

[Banyan]

13 minutes ago, Columbia said:

Do you know if the judge had connections to Christ Church?

I'd wondered about that too. But there doesn't appear to be any evidence that Judge Stegner has any affiliation with Wilson or Christ Church. The best description I've seen so far of Wilson's influence with Judge Stegner is this,

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Team Sitler, led by Pastor Douglas Wilson of Christ Church, played Judge John Stegner like a gullible mark in a con game. He never saw it coming. What he lacks in street smarts he compensates with naivety.

Judge Stegner took Wilson for a pastor, not realizing he was dealing with a malevolent cult leader. The Sitler scandal apparently didn't harm his relationship with Gov. Otter who appointed Stegner in 2018 to the Idaho Supreme Court.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

Just now, Banyan said:

The Sitler scandal apparently didn't harm his relationship with Gov. Otter who appointed Stegner in 2018 to the Idaho Supreme Court.

Butch Otter has never struck me as being particularly bright. I base that on over 30 years of reading/hearing about him in the news, not on any direct experience. 

[Howl]

Sitler, diagnosed as a fixated pedophile,  was allowed to live with his wife and infant child with a bizarre chaperone scheme in place, where he was supposedly NEVER ALLOWED TO BE ALONE WITH HIS OWN CHILD.  For awhile, the Sitler parents and others were at the house to make this possible; I have no idea what transpired as time went on.  A fixated pedophile is one who cannot be rehabilitated. 

I think I'm remembering this correctly, but I don't recall if it was at the behest of Wilson or the actual families.  Does anyone else recall this?

1. As time went on, at least one family with children who had been molested by Sitler requested that he be allowed to come to family events because the children he molested had grown past his preferred victim age 
2. This would be OK because they were too young to remember the original molestation

There is so much entrenched evil with Doug Wilson and the CREC that it's truly hard to fathom. 

[hoipolloi]

3 hours ago, Howl said:

Does anyone else recall this?

Unbelievably, in December 2015, the court allowed Sitler to re-establish contact with some of his victims and their families:

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“The Defendant shall have no contact of any nature whatsoever with his victims, or with the immediate families of those victims, unless that victim or that victim’s family desires to have contact with the Defendant and that desire has been made know in writing to the Idaho Department of Probation and Parole or this Court.”...

“Per the Court’s order dated 12/23/15 you will be allowed contact with victim or victim families that provide documentation in writing that they wish to have contact with you. . . .”

 

Also, it appears that as of August 2017, Sitler was living with his wife and child again.

[butterfly girl]

8 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Unbelievably, in December 2015, the court allowed Sitler to re-establish contact with some of his victims and their families:

Also, it appears that as of August 2017, Sitler was living with his wife and child again.

What kind of women does not divorce and prosecute a man who molests her child?  Then to let him move back in as if this all did not happen?  That child should be removed from her custody!

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by butterfly girl

[MamaJunebug]

5 hours ago, butterfly girl said:

What kind of women does not divorce and prosecute a man who molests her child?  Then to let him move back in as if this all did not happen?  That child should be removed from her custody!

 

An already insecure woman who’s been told by everyone she holds dear that divorce is wrong and that forgiven is forgiven. 
I just pray for that little boy.

[Howl]

40 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

An already insecure woman who’s been told by everyone she holds dear that divorce is wrong and that forgiven is forgiven. 
I just pray for that little boy.

A sheltered woman in a patriarchal family and church who was SET UP (courtship, i.e. arranged marriage) to marry a pedophile.  There is no good news in any part of this grotesque immorality play. 

For those following the horrible story of Kamp Kanakuk on the Fundy Walk of Shame & Crimes thread, same kind of dealio.  Years into Newman's abuse, somebody thought that maybe he should just get married. He got married, fathered two children, didn't spend much time with his family, and continued to abuse young boys. Problem solved. NOT. 

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Howl

[Banyan]

Two very good comments on Spinderella Sproul, the first claiming that "in a sense" Lisa Sproul is a victim of RC Jr's spiritual and sexual abuse, the second comment not quite so sympathetic of Lisa. I think both comments make valid points.

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Frustrated said...

In regards to footnote 4 above, what this really amounts to is spiritual/sexual abuse because of the power structure existing between RC (pastor) and Lisa(pastoral counselee).If he was grooming her through counseling, that is spiritual abuse. If he solicited sexual gratification from her during that time, it is sexual abuse, no different than what Ravi Z did to Lori Thompson. The difference, or course, is that he married her, and this after apparently encouraging her to divorce her husband. She may be an awful person, but in a sense, she is a victim of his, because he misused his position to sexualize her. At least all of this seems possible.
Patriarchal church systems cannot have their cake and eat it too. If we are to accept that men such as this have some sort of "authority" over others because of their position/education/claimed calling, etc, then they need to be held to the standard of not using that authority to take advantage of those "lower" than them in the system. That this even needs to be pointed out is sad.
I realize that RC has been defrocked and mostly discredited, yet here he is, trying to start an entire ministry. Those who know what he is should be shouting it from the rooftops. Thanks for trying to do something.

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Userofusername said...

Frustrated, really interesting that you say, "no different than what Ravi Z did to Lori Thompson." Lisa Sproul has been posting comments on a YouTube thing called Why I Don't Believe Lori Anne Thompson. Something about Lori Anne has got Lisa extremely triggered. Lisa and I got into a couple debates there, but she abruptly pulled out and deleted most of her comments. Mine are still there.

I agree with you that RC Jr used his power and position to take advantage of Lisa. Lisa didn't need much in the way of encouragement anyway. The way she's written about it it's obvious she was the one who first pursued him. So to me it's hard to make a case that Lisa is a victim, although that doesn't change the fact that RC Jr took advantage of his position. The real victim in all of this is David Ringel. He was trying his best to reconcile with Lisa and patch up his marriage. RC Jr sabotaged it. He took advantage of his position as Lisa's counselor to steal Lisa away from her husband. I can't remember ever hearing of a pastor using marriage counseling as a platform to steal another man's wife away from him. RC Jr is the worst of the worst. A conniving duplicitous schemer.

 

[Katzchen24]

This is from Spanky's blog post "New Theses, New Reformation" dated 31 Mar 21.

Spoiler

 

When he speaks about "serving the church under deep persecution" I assume he's been on an overseas mission somewhere? You know, sticking his Jesus in where it's not wanted instead of actually being helpful. He better not be talking about America because I just don't understand why these people think Christians are an oppressed minority there. Christians are responsible for suppressing and oppressing more than any other group I can think of. 

He also quotes 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10 in another blog post in the context of condemning homosexuality. Honestly, these two have so little capacity for self reflection it's astounding.

“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral (sexting and dick pics?), nor idolaters (how many churches did Spanky have to try before he found one that let him do what he wanted with Lisa), nor adulterers (how many times is Queen Lisa allowed to divorce?), nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy (just leaving this one here), nor drunkards (Spanky's specialty), nor revelers, nor swindlers (leaving this one here too, grifter's gonna grifter) will inherit the kingdom of God” 

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Katzchen24

[MamaJunebug]

21 hours ago, Katzchen24 said:

When he speaks about "serving the church under deep persecution" I assume he's been on an overseas mission somewhere?

I'm no Spanky Scholar but I've never remembered hearing about him ministering {sic} overseas.  

I've heard it said that one of the reasons Christianity grew as a religion in the earliest days was exactly because of the persecution.  People saw others believing in Something/Someone so deeply and devoutly that they would submit to suffering horrific deaths rather than deny.

That said, Spanky's snide references to various '-ianisms' is as disgusting as he can get with his pants on: He, himself, has caused so much turmoil by nit-picking scripture to defend his stupid approach to his own alcoholism, his own criminal neglect of his family, his own arrogant disregard for scripture and the office of the ministry.

I keep up with this topic just to see if he ever gets a true comeuppance, but I always feel grimy from the time I see there's a new post, to a few moments until after I've been able to turn my mind to something good .... like Henry Golding, or cute puppies.

Edited April 2, 2021 by MamaJunebug

[hoipolloi]

15 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

I'm no Spanky Scholar but I've never remembered hearing about him ministering {sic} overseas.  

I agree. Pretty sure Spanky has spent his entire adult life working at religious grifting in the US.