Spanky Sproul 5: Grace for Me but Never for Thee (Unless Thou Payest Me)

[Banyan]

RC Jr's claims of Lisa's alleged "beauty for ashes" makes a mockery of the saving grace of the Christian gospel he says he values. Should Junior ever come to his senses perhaps he'll direct such "beauty for ashes" praises on his adult children like Maili Sproul? After reading Maili's article, Responsibility, I'm just blown away.

Quote

The way they decide to abuse me is not a reflection of who I am as a person. The way they choose to treat me is not my responsibility. The way they act is not my fault... If someone is struggling with mental health issues that are affecting you, then you can recommend them to get help from a professional. You can do your best to make decisions that may benefit them, but you cannot heal them. You cannot just fix whatever mental illnesses they may have. It is not your responsibility. It is not your fault.

So much wisdom, grace and maturity for a 19 year old. Must have a lot to do with the good genes she inherited from her mother, Denise.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Banyan

[older than allosaurs]

On 3/20/2021 at 12:24 PM, hoipolloi said:

  Reveal hidden contents

By implication, Lisa's dismissal of Lori Anne extends to the adult Sproul children, some of whom say they were victims of Steven Sitler's abuse while he was at Spanky's Highland Ministries.

I'm guessing this is what's behind this latest burst of malice. Darby has tweeted that she's considering writing a book. She looks to have the writing skills, connections, and social media savvy to have some impact if she chooses to tell her story more widely. Meanwhile, Doug Wilson and his pedophile-enabling ways are getting a bunch of evangelical scrutiny on the Examining Doug Wilson and Moscow, Idaho Facebook page, and you can't follow that thread very far without ending up back with the Sprouls at Highland Ministry. I think RC and Lisa are polishing up the "professional victim" straw man (can you polish a straw man?) to have it ready in case his family starts speaking out.

[AnnaSofia]

On 3/20/2021 at 3:24 PM, hoipolloi said:

Yes. She has also been trashing a primary accuser of Ravi Zacharias, Lori Anne Thompson.

[CW: Spoiler hides screenshot of Lisa's monstrous FB statements about child abuse that may be triggering to some.]

  Reveal hidden contents

By implication, Lisa's dismissal of Lori Anne extends to the adult Sproul children, some of whom say they were victims of Steven Sitler's abuse while he was at Spanky's Highland Ministries.

R.C. Sproul, Jr and Lisa Sproul are complete fucking monsters.

The ever raging narcissism of Lisa

It's like her spidey sense tingles:

"What? Someone, somewhere is getting attention? I should get attention! They had a terrible thing happen to them? I had a terrible thing happen to ME! Only mine was way, way worse!! And they're not even doing it right! I had a perfect, godly response to MY horrible abuse! And I do it all while tirelessly performing my duties as first Lady of the Sproul home, and Queen of my community college, 1996!!!"

You are truly example to us all, Lisa.

 

[Banyan]

1 hour ago, older than allosaurs said:

Darby has tweeted that she's considering writing a book. She looks to have the writing skills, connections, and social media savvy to have some impact if she chooses to tell her story more widely.

And unlike her dad, Darby hasn't burned all her bridges. If anything her list of admirers appears to be growing. So I have no doubt her book will sell well (unlike her dad's last two books which have seemingly flopped). My hope is that she doesn't just play the victim but brings her readers some valuable life lessons. If Darby is anything like Maili I'm sure it will be an edifying book.

1 hour ago, older than allosaurs said:

I think RC and Lisa are polishing up the "professional victim" straw man (can you polish a straw man?)

Never underestimate RC-Lisa's Professional Victim resourcefulness. There's a Mythbusters episode that asks the question, "Can you polish a turd?" They proved it could be done. So, yes, considering how full of crap they are I'm sure RC-Lisa can polish a straw man.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Banyan

[mountaineer]

Oh I would buy the hell out of Darby's book, or a book cowritten by several Sproul sisters. 

I remember seeing a tweet of Darby's, years ago, that included condemnation of "sodomites." Who knows what beliefs she still holds privately, but she at least has the sense to refrain from using the type of vocabulary that used to make her look like a complete ass right alongside her ass of a father. And I think it's likely many of those beliefs have softened or changed a lot. I think she has it in her to write well about the abuse perpetrated by Junior specifically and by the religious movement she was raised in more generally. I see evidence of significant courage and growth in her, and I would love to read about it in long form.

[Banyan]

Quote

"One of those key differences is here- boys protect girls. This is not cultural, for it began at the beginning."

Plenty in the article to pick apart, including the fact that RC Jr never served in the military which, in my mind, disqualifies him from speaking on this subject. But what really pisses me off about the above quote is how miserably the boy RC Sproul Jr failed to protect the girls in his life. Say like his own children from a pedophile. Just another example of why Sproul just needs to shut up.

[Katzchen24]

It's interesting that Spanky has a fairly recent blog post about people making accusations from behind an alias. His point seems to be that anonymous accusers are of little to no account to him. He's gotten some pushback on that.

My not-very-well thought through response is that if there had been justice done for the victims of Steven Sittler and for the victims of Doug Wilson and Spanky's cover-up of paedophiles in their homes and church, then there wouldn't need to be anonymous accusations. The accusations would have been made and addressed in public and before the law so that everyone could see that justice was served. For Spanky and Lisa to use Jesus as their get out of jail free card is a further abuse that totally disregards the pain of the survivors. 

Spanky isn't entitled to a redemption narrative because he hasn't paid the price for his abuses.  

[older than allosaurs]

1 hour ago, Katzchen24 said:

It's interesting that Spanky has a fairly recent blog post about people making accusations from behind an alias. His point seems to be that anonymous accusers are of little to no account to him. He's gotten some pushback on that.

I  think the identity of the poster is less relevant than the reliability of the information. When the poster is the source, then anonymity is more of an issue and there had better be some additional avenues to check veracity.  But if, for example, I am posting verifiable financial information, my own name doesn't matter much.

More snarkily, I wonder how that works with sock puppets -- Schmoopy, 241, Reformed Pub, and probably others come to mind. Is RCJR a-ok with those? And how about using your own name to post lengthy outpourings of slavish devotion from the couple children who still depend on you for food and shelter? I would bet my stimulus check those conversations never actually happened.

[Howl]

On 3/21/2021 at 1:14 PM, Banyan said:

After reading Maili's article, Responsibility, I'm just blown away.

I'm a little confused on the timeline.  Did Maili live with the Astoundingly Reverend Dr. DUI and his Hot Consort Lisa?  If so, it can't have been long, since Jr. and Lisa haven't been married that long. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Howl

[LilMissMetaphor]

23 hours ago, mountaineer said:

Oh I would buy the hell out of Darby's book, or a book cowritten by several Sproul sisters. 

I remember seeing a tweet of Darby's, years ago, that included condemnation of "sodomites." Who knows what beliefs she still holds privately, but she at least has the sense to refrain from using the type of vocabulary that used to make her look like a complete ass right alongside her ass of a father. And I think it's likely many of those beliefs have softened or changed a lot. I think she has it in her to write well about the abuse perpetrated by Junior specifically and by the religious movement she was raised in more generally. I see evidence of significant courage and growth in her, and I would love to read about it in long form.

After typing "Darby" into the search bar here to see what would come up, I saw (I'd forgotten) that she's actually posted on FJ, in 2011 and 2012.  At the time, she defended her choice to persecute women outside abortion clinics, and stated that her father was not thinking of remarrying.  And some people said that he definitely was, maybe not right that second, but that it was going to happen.  (And of course it did, in 2016).    

[Banyan]

4 hours ago, Katzchen24 said:

His point seems to be that anonymous accusers are of little to no account to him.

Yes, that's what he claims. It strikes me as contradictory though that he spent so much time and effort composing an article just to tell us he disregards anonymous "heroic journalists." Not the first time he's done it either.

4 hours ago, Katzchen24 said:

He's gotten some pushback on that.

Yes he has, especially from James Horn who did a masterful job eviscerating Sproul's stupid legal theories here and here.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Banyan

[Columbia]

20 hours ago, Banyan said:

Say like his own children from a pedophile.

Wow, I had no idea Steven Sitler was also a member of Sproul’s church. I always just associated him with Doug Wilson. 
 

i haven’t been following Spanky’s screeds too closely, but does anyone know if he’s gone after Wilson yet? As despicable as Doug is, I don’t think RC’d stand a chance against him. 

[Banyan]

23 minutes ago, Columbia said:

i haven’t been following Spanky’s screeds too closely, but does anyone know if he’s gone after Wilson yet? As despicable as Doug is, I don’t think RC’d stand a chance against him. 

Dr. Pastor Rev. RC Sproul Jr, D.Min. hasn't ever and won't ever go after Doug Wilson, anymore than he ever went after Doug Phillips, Esq.  Wolves in sheep's clothing don't go after wolves in sheep's clothing. It's called "professional courtesy."

[MamaJunebug]

49 minutes ago, Banyan said:

Dr. Pastor Rev. RC Sproul Jr, D.Min. hasn't ever and won't ever go after Doug Wilson, anymore than he ever went after Doug Phillips, Esq.  Wolves in sheep's clothing don't go after wolves in sheep's clothing. It's called "professional courtesy."

Good one! 

But I’m also keeping in mind the concept of “no honor among thieves.”  A man [sic] who betrays his children will betray anybody. 

While I believe that vengeance is The Lord’s, I also quietly hope for a bunch of these guys to go after each other. It’s happened before, among criminals in every walk of life. Just let one of them perceive a slight, and watch what happens. 

[AnnaSofia]

19 hours ago, Howl said:

I'm a little confused on the timeline.  Did Maili live with the Astoundingly Reverend Dr. DUI and his Hot Consort Lisa?  If so, it can't have been long, since Jr. and Lisa haven't been married that long. 

If I have my timeline straight, it would have been from October of 2016, when Spanx and Lisa married, until March of 2020, when Maili turned 18.

Btw, Happy 19th to Maili! I think it was just a few days ago.

IIRC, there were 4 minor children still at home when Spanx married Lisa, Erin Claire, Maili, Reilly, and Donovan. Initially, they all lived with them, and Lisa formally adopted them.

Before the ink was dry on the adoption, Erin Claire, who was still 17, fled the home and went to live with Darby. Spanx and Lisa then all but locked up Maili to keep her from doing the same, made her quit her job, confiscated her phone and her driver's license, etc. Fortunately she somehow managed to leave the day she turned 18, and went to live with Vesta.

[Howl]

Maili would have first experience of how crazy it was being with Jr. and Lisa over a number of years.  That poor girl.  Ish. 

[Columbia]

1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

But I’m also keeping in mind the concept of “no honor among thieves.”  A man [sic] who betrays his children will betray anybody. 

While I believe that vengeance is The Lord’s, I also quietly hope for a bunch of these guys to go after each other. It’s happened before, among criminals in every walk of life. Just let one of them perceive a slight, and watch what happens. 

That’s my thought, too. These are very proud, very insecure men. It wouldn’t take much for them to be at each others’ throats. 

[Howl]

The Right (!) Reverend DUI probably realizes that Doug Wilson could eviscerate him and throw his entrails to the wolves without a second thought. 

Doug Wilson is magnitudes more vicious, mean and Machiavellian than Spanks, because being a professional asshole/manipulator/user is Wilson's specialty and he's very very good at it.  Also, Spanky is lazy and Wilson is not. 

Really, Spanky would be chump change for a pro like Wilson. 

[DomWackTroll]

7 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

I also quietly hope for a bunch of these guys to go after each other. It’s happened before, among criminals in every walk of life. Just let one of them perceive a slight, and watch what happens. 

Doug Wilson and Tim Bayly have (seemingly) fallen out completely over mask wearing. I hate Tim for many other reasons, but I have to admit my surprise at how reasonable he's been on that issue. 

[hoipolloi]

13 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

I also quietly hope for a bunch of these guys to go after each other.

A colleague, now deceased, referred to this as his first rule of conflict: Let the assholes get in a fight with each other.

They always do.

[Howl]

My fave: 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Howl

[Banyan]

10 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

A colleague, now deceased, referred to this as his first rule of conflict: Let the assholes get in a fight with each other.

Rev. Pastor Dr. RC Sproul Jr, D.Min. referred to himself as a "Doug Wilson groupie." As if that's not sycophantic enough he's even said he's "a Doug Wilson lick spittle" and "suck up." That was back around the time of his 2006 defrocking when he was scheming to have Doug Wilson clean his filthy ecclesiastical laundry, which Wilson did. Since leaving the CREC in 2010 for James McDonald's CPC, and later bailing on the CPC in 2016 so he could marry the 3X divorcee Lisa, from what I've seen RC Jr has had nothing to say about Doug Wilson, good or bad. My theory is that whatever negative things Sproul might think about Wilson he's kept to himself on the off chance Wilson might re-ordain him in the CREC. Keeping his options open would be the smart play. But thinking Sproul plays things smart is probably giving him too much credit. After already throwing his own children and late wife under the bus we've recently seen Sproul throw many of his former ministry associates under the bus too, including even his own mother Vesta who sits on Ligonier Ministries' board of directors and holds the keys to Ligonier's cash vault. RC-Lisa seem fixated on blowing up all their bridges, whether with friend or foe. Everybody these days is on RC-Lisa's radar-lock, perhaps even Doug Wilson. If RC-Lisa do throw Doug Wilson under the bus they'll have to carefully avoid bringing up any mention of their shared scandals, such as pedophile coverups.

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, Banyan said:

RC-Lisa seem fixated on blowing up all their bridges, whether with friend or foe.

The dumping on Vesta makes me think there's been some major change in her will, and it's not in Spanky's favor.

It's possible that Vesta may also be able to influence the Ligonier board when it comes to payouts for family & favored friends. 

[Banyan]

On 3/24/2021 at 3:42 PM, hoipolloi said:

It's possible that Vesta may also be able to influence the Ligonier board when it comes to payouts for family & favored friends. 

From reading comments on Spinderella Sproul, including from a couple former Ligonier employees, it does sound like Vesta exercises far more than just influence, especially where it concerns hiring and paying family members. She's always called those shots.

Spinderella exposed the RC-Lisa sexting story last October. They asked donors to call and write letters of complaint to Lig's board and officers. A former Lig employee posted a comment saying it was having a big impact. In December, right around the time Ligonier was due to upload their 2019 tax return to their web site, they deleted all their tax returns in an all too obvious attempt to avoid RC Jr's 2019 independent contractor pay being confirmed.

Quote

Former Lig Man said... I'm told your article has brought pressure to bear on Ligonier's management. Donors are phoning in angry, as they should be. Ligonier absolutely hates this kind of public exposure.

You know you're right over the target when they start deleting evidence. That's what Ligonier has been doing in the past two days. On December 28, 2020 they deleted their 2008-2014 990 tax returns from their web site (compare Wayback Machine to Google cache). Then today, December 29, 2020, Ligonier removed all remaining 990 tax returns from their web site. Now all that remains are puff-piece Financial Statements, which of course tell us nothing about who was paid what. I've been keeping an eye on Ligonier's site because now is around the time that tax exempt religious orgs typically post their tax returns from the previous year. I figured they might pull a stupid stunt just like this one. Ligonier is so predictable. They never disappoint, and the timing can't be a coincidence. They're attempting to hide the evidence contained in their 2019 tax return that they're still paying RCJr as an independent contractor.

In one of his SMUF podcasts RC Jr said his mother "cut me off." It's safe to assume he was "cut off" from his six figure independent contractor deal. Apparently that was terminated sometime in 2019. What we don't know is whether "cut off" also includes being cut out of the family will. My guess is he was.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Banyan

[Banyan]

On 3/20/2021 at 2:24 PM, hoipolloi said:

Yes. She has also been trashing a primary accuser of Ravi Zacharias, Lori Anne Thompson.

Also trashing Lori Anne Thomson in YouTube comments. "userofusername" takes Lisa to the woodshed.