Alyssa and John 7: Laura Ingalls, Something, Something...

[JermajestyDuggar]

The housing prices went up during the pandemic because everyone seemed to want a bigger house with a home office and with a bigger yard since they were all spending so much time at home. A house across the street just sold for 445k and it’s only 1,750 sq ft. But it’s completely remodeled. It also has a pretty small yard in my opinion. But it looks really nice inside. 
 

We bought our house 11 years ago when the housing market was in the toilet and paid WAY less than the new neighbors across the street. Way less.

Edited March 9, 2021 by JermajestyDuggar

[JanasTattooParlor]

4 hours ago, PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea said:

Housing prices are never not fascinating to me. Southern Ontario is in a giant bubble and average detached homes just hit $900k CAD this month in my area. We bought a few months ago and paid way less than that but way more than $300k USD in a "high cost of living" area (ha!).

So my question is, what do y'all pay for mortgages? Ours are stupid low, 1.75 percent!

I know where I live is not high cost of living compared to other areas, but its one of the highest in my state because of all the companies that are moving here and creating jobs. Our house is at a 3.125% interest rate. We were originally approved in November for 2.75%, but that expired right before our offer was accepted on our house. We also have to pay private mortgage insurance since we don't have the 20% for a down payment. 

1 hour ago, CarrotCake said:

The average(!) housingprice in the Netherlands at the moment is 486k€ (which is 578k$).

And the avarage size house here is 65m2 (700 square feet) on a 130m2 lot (1400 square feet), for which you would pay around 350k€ (416k$)

See as an American, this blows my mind! My apartment that my husband and I lived in with our dog was 900 sqft and it felt so small, even though I've lived in smaller places. Our house is almost 3000 sqft on a .25 acre lot and we will never move again because we will grow into the house as we get older and have kids. 

53 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The housing prices went up during the pandemic because everyone seemed to want a bigger house with a home office and with a bigger yard since they were all spending so much time at home. A house across the street just sold for 445k and it’s only 1,750 sq ft. But it’s completely remodeled. It also has a pretty small yard in my opinion. But it looks really nice inside. 

This is exactly why my husband and I bought a house. My husband works from home and in our 1 bedroom apartment we didn't have a place for him to work other than our tiny breakfast table. Couple that with having a puppy that needs more space to roam, and we were in desperate need of a new place. 

[Jackie3]

3 hours ago, wendy-sparkles said:

Alyssa's upbringing to me seems incredibly deprived in attention,  education, and opportunity and even though we're going to make fun of her 'dinning room' or whatever, what it actually is is a symptom of the shit hand she was dealt.

I think Alyssa doesn't know what she doesn't know. She doesn't know learning can be exciting. She doesn't know that it's a lot of fun to do educational activities with four little girls. I had a such a good time when my kids were little, making playdoh, learning to cut and paint, going to science museums, the list goes on. 

She also seems to lack intellectual curiosity. She's not in Kelly's house anymore. She can read any book she likes, now! She can make up for her lack of education through classes or videos. Instead, she seems to focus on building  a large stilletto collection (over 30, when she showed us her closet), putting on makeup, and waiting for her girls to be old enough to do the same. That's why I think life will be difficult for her when she starts to get older and lose her youthful prettiness. She doesn't have much else.

John, on the other hand, seems just plain stupid and smug. He's just so dumb! He only has one job (they closed their cleaning business) but seems to be working hard on that renovation. Still, he works for his dad so he really has not had to struggle the way most people do. Unless his dad is a mean jerk, John doesn't have to worry about losing his job, which is a great position to be in.

It amazed me that these two faced ONE problem--Alyssa's heart issue--and started questioning their faith. Their faith must not be very deep at all.

 

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

3 hours ago, treehugger said:

Southern Ontario blows my mind.  All our family lives there, and they are always hinting that they would like for us to move back, but honestly, it’s cheaper for us to live in the downtown core of Montreal and have the lifestyle we enjoy.

Congratulations on being able to buy a house there though!  It’s a tough market to break into.  

   

Stay in Montreal - what a great city!

Thanks! We are loving the house and were very sure we can afford it even if mortgage rates skyrocket, one of us is unemployed etc. (Basically we got something relatively modest but in good shape.) I worry about all the people who don't have that cushion...

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, Jackie3 said:

I think Alyssa doesn't know what she doesn't know. She doesn't know learning can be exciting. She doesn't know that it's a lot of fun to do educational activities with four little girls. I had a such a good time when my kids were little, making playdoh, learning to cut and paint, going to science museums, the list goes on. 

She also seems to lack intellectual curiosity. She's not in Kelly's house anymore. She can read any book she likes, now! She can make up for her lack of education through classes or videos. Instead, she seems to focus on building  a large stilletto collection (over 30, when she showed us her closet), putting on makeup, and waiting for her girls to be old enough to do the same. That's why I think life will be difficult for her when she starts to get older and lose her youthful prettiness. She doesn't have much else.

John, on the other hand, seems just plain stupid and smug. He's just so dumb! He only has one job (they closed their cleaning business) but seems to be working hard on that renovation. Still, he works for his dad so he really has not had to struggle the way most people do. Unless his dad is a mean jerk, John doesn't have to worry about losing his job, which is a great position to be in.

It amazed me that these two faced ONE problem--Alyssa's heart issue--and started questioning their faith. Their faith must not be very deep at all.

 

I think parents like Kelly and Gil and JB and Michelle nullified and likely punished all intellectual curiosity. Plain and simple, with different parents these adults likely would be very, very different people. Of course as adults with autonomy, they are now pleased to do as they wish. The only one of those combined 38 kids to make different choices is Jill Dillard. Even Michaela going to nursing school was a consolation prize choice. If she had been pumping out kid after kid, I doubt she would have attended nursing school. Psychologically speaking, I wonder if having that curiosity squelched at key developmental stages seriously prevents one from every regaining such skills?

 I don’t think John is smug. I think he’s your average Joe who is easily led by others.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

16 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Add the whole European area and enormous areas in other continents. Broadly speaking, it is difficult for a young worker and a SAHM to buy a house. But a 4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, swimming pool house is not usual at all. 

She has 2 sisters older than 30 who don't own their houses. It's rude to use the word FINALLY. 

Erin won't be 30 until May, but your point stands. 

[irish_dancing_canadian]

I’m originally from Southern Ontario but could never live there again. My entire family is still there and I hear lots of complaints about housing costs and well... Doug Ford ? If I were to move back to Canada I think I’d move to Québec but not entirely sure. In Germany most people rent until they die and anyone I know that owns a house, inherited it (a couple exceptions apply). 

To be fair, Alyssa is taking advantage of the “Youtuber vlogger mommy” trend and it is a creative enough way to earn some income. Plus I can’t blame her for doing all those sponsorships. Another “easier” way to earn money. It’s just what people do these days.

I wish she would put her daughters in a private Christian school. Alyssa is not capable of properly homeschooling.

[nausicaa]

9 hours ago, wendy-sparkles said:

Alyssa's upbringing to me seems incredibly deprived in attention,  education, and opportunity and even though we're going to make fun of her 'dinning room' or whatever, what it actually is is a symptom of the shit hand she was dealt. I don't think a single person on this website is impressed with Alyssa's parenting but she was raised as a fundie, where she was taught she has to have children whether she wants to or not and she's not allowed to send those children to school - of course she's not passionate about parenting and homeschooling.

I agree with you on Alyssa's upbringing and think she is Exhibit A in how this Fundie early marriage culture leads to problems down the line. However, at this point she has four kids and is 26 and I think it's fair to start holding her responsible for some of her recent choices. 

And she does have some options even within the rigidity of her Fundie life to improve things. She and John could use the rhythm method or just pull out. Unlike her older sisters, she went to one semester of Crown and dropped it saying college wasn't for her. Which is a valid choice. But then she needs to acknowledge that she may not be adequately educated to homeschool her children. Or else she should have gritted her teeth and tried to get an education degree from Crown if homeschooling was so important to her. And her religion and culture don't force her to stick her kid in front of videos all day. We see plenty of fundie moms who do fun, interactive activities and did a good job educating their kids.

Edited March 9, 2021 by nausicaa

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

9 hours ago, CreationMuseumCurator said:

Living in the Midwest, I know our housing prices are cheap, but this still blows my mind. I grew up in a small town where homes are dirt cheap and moved to a city with a state university. Our housing prices here feel ridiculous to me...until I get reality checks like this one.

We bought last summer at 3.375%. 

I'm so jealous. Ontario is basically the Midwest but with universal health care. So why are the houses like 4 times the price?!

[nausicaa]

4 hours ago, SassyPants said:

 I don’t think John is smug. I think he’s your average Joe who is easily led by others.

I agree. Which is part of my frustration with Alyssa. I don't get the vibe he rules with an iron fist. I don't think he'd care if she started taking some early childhood education classes at the local community college or started pushing the rhythm method (probably be relieved with the latter). 

And as for Alyssa's innate personality v. her upbringing: it's hard to say. Some people are just kind of vapid and I think it's hard for the rest of us to understand.

Alyssa reminds me a lot of my cousin's wife who wasn't raised fundie and even went to college. For her 40th birthday, she did a photo shoot in a tutu with a board behind her of her likes and dislikes. "Likes" consisted of her family, shopping, makeup, and Real Housewives. "Dislikes" included... "reading." Not a specific genre, just the written word in general. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

Alyssa had almost a 3 year gap between daughters #3 and #4, so they probably know how to prevent pregnancy. 

I think Alyssa may not value education and that's for her girls.  She may think they just need a man to support them. 

 

[AussieKrissy]

1 hour ago, irish_dancing_canadian said:

I’m originally from Southern Ontario but could never live there again. My entire family is still there and I hear lots of complaints about housing costs and well... Doug Ford ? If I were to move back to Canada I think I’d move to Québec but not entirely sure. In Germany most people rent until they die and anyone I know that owns a house, inherited it (a couple exceptions apply). 

To be fair, Alyssa is taking advantage of the “Youtuber vlogger mommy” trend and it is a creative enough way to earn some income. Plus I can’t blame her for doing all those sponsorships. Another “easier” way to earn money. It’s just what people do these days.

I wish she would put her daughters in a private Christian school. Alyssa is not capable of properly homeschooling.

why take away money for her shoes, matching dresses and take away by paying for an education.....

[maple802]

23 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Also, I love how she said "we FINALLY" bought our own house. Girl, you are 26. Everyone on the East and West Coasts and the Chicago metro area would kindly request that you take a seat. 

Amen. I (with my husband) bought my first house last year at age 39; we live in a HCOL area. 

[QuiverFullofBooks]

I don’t want to defend the #superficialtwit, but she did work in a florist shop as a teenager.

[Jackie3]

3 hours ago, AussieKrissy said:

why take away money for her shoes, matching dresses and take away by paying for an education.....

This may be why they took "so long" to buy a house. 

[AmericanRose]

5 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I think Alyssa may not value education and that's for her girls.  She may think they just need a man to support them. 

 

My mother has never been a fundie, but she still told my teenage self I would need a man to support me. Granted, it was the rural midwest, but there are some non-fundie places where that thinking still holds.

On another note, I hope Tikki (Tikky?) and Alyssa have a friendship beyond "she sends me things" that we just don't see.

[FluffySnowball]

I could imagine that after a childhood of having to go without (adequate food and other needs and wants), Alyssa is a fan of instant gratification. Education doesn’t pay off right away and she might really crave the pleasant aspects of life right now. 
I love reading and such, but after teenage years in frumpers, maybe I’d prioritize pretty clothes as much as she does. Who knows?
Mind you, though, that it doesn’t need to be an “either or” and to some extend, you can have and enjoy both - at least that’s what I do. I enjoy clothes and makeup but sometimes buying a book is just as fun. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by FluffySnowball

[Jackie3]

10 hours ago, FluffySnowball said:

Education doesn’t pay off right away and she might really crave the pleasant aspects of life right now. 

That's what I meant. She doesn't see education as one of the pleasant aspects of life. She sees it as drudgery, or something you do for a career. It's no surprise, because Gil and Kelly's workbook method of school ("Let's do school so we can go to the park!") would convince anyone that learning was a chore.

10 hours ago, AmericanRose said:

On another note, I hope Tikki (Tikky?) and Alyssa have a friendship beyond "she sends me things" that we just don't see.

I dunno. I don't send my friends expensive gifts on a regular basis. In a normal friendship between peers, gifts are for birthdays and special occasions. Even when it's time for a gift, I keep it simple so there's no obligation to reciprocate. For example, I usually buy my friend coffee when it's her birthday, coffee and a pastry if she wants one.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Jackie3

[SassyPants]

18 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

That's what I meant. She doesn't see education as one of the pleasant aspects of life. She sees it as drudgery, or something you do for a career. It's no surprise, because Gil and Kelly's workbook method of school ("Let's do school so we can go to the park!") would convince anyone that learning was a chore.

I dunno. I don't send my friends expensive gifts on a regular basis. In a normal friendship between peers, gifts are for birthdays and special occasions. Even when it's time for a gift, I keep it simple so there's no obligation to reciprocate. For example, I usually buy my friend coffee when it's her birthday, coffee and a pastry if she wants one.

True and have we ever heard any of these women boasting about what they have given someone else?  Authentic friendships work both ways.

Edited March 10, 2021 by SassyPants

[AmericanRose]

17 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

I dunno. I don't send my friends expensive gifts on a regular basis. In a normal friendship between peers, gifts are for birthdays and special occasions. Even when it's time for a gift, I keep it simple so there's no obligation to reciprocate. For example, I usually buy my friend coffee when it's her birthday, coffee and a pastry if she wants one.

It's entirely possible that Tikky is trying to win Alyssa's approval / friendship... that's what this reads like to me. My friends have never sent me clothes and food deliveries. ?

[front hugs > duggs]

13 minutes ago, AmericanRose said:

It's entirely possible that Tikky is trying to win Alyssa's approval / friendship... that's what this reads like to me. My friends have never sent me clothes and food deliveries. ?

I want a friend like Tikky when I come out of quarantine. I've donated most everything that isn't athletic wear and at some point I'm going to want to look nice while leaving the house ?

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

True and have we ever heard any of these women boasting about what they have given someone else?  Authentic friendships work both ways.

Yes, is Alyssa buying Chipoltle for another family of six (admittedly, there are probably only three real eaters)?

[Bluebirdbluebell]

While I agree school can be fun, I have to say that there was plenty of times were it wasn't fun. I went mainly to public schools and we did plenty of worksheets, homework, papers, etc. This is not to say it was never fun, but mostly it was work and a lot of tedious chores that needed to be done. 

It seems to me that fundies are often surprised by the amount of work to be done when they start school. I'm not sure fun is the problem. 

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

While I agree school can be fun, I have to say that there was plenty of times were it wasn't fun. I went mainly to public schools and we did plenty of worksheets, homework, papers, etc. This is not to say it was never fun, but mostly it was work and a lot of tedious chores that needed to be done. 

It seems to me that fundies are often surprised by the amount of work to be done when they start school. I'm not sure fun is the problem. 

Oh, and no matter what fundie parents say about why they homeschool, I think the #1 reason is because they’d never be able to manage all that comes with sending your child to school: having to be on time, neat and clean, with required materials and a lunch, activities associated, homework done...Could Michelle or Kelly ever have managed the schedules of 19 children? Get real.

As an example, M is for Mama who has 10 kids and homeschools +1 day COOP school, always puts on her busy to do Monday list, getting the kids ready for and out the door to school. I take it that having to get them somewhere first thing in the morning is a major PITA for her.

Edited March 10, 2021 by SassyPants

[Mama Mia]

On 3/9/2021 at 7:17 AM, SassyPants said:

As a reference, a house like the Websters just purchased would be 2 million plus in my town (on Monterey Bay south of San Francisco). It’s not so much the structure that costly here, but the land. We live on a postage stamp sized lot with a tall and skinny multi-level home, much smaller than the Ws and we could probably sell for 1.5 million. Move our house to rural Arkansas and it’s probably 250,000. Our house does have many beautiful features and updates, and having the ocean in your backyard raises the costs.

Same area, and my late 30’s, long time educator daughter and son-in-law can’t afford a basic condo in their area - the lowest priced, most basic ones are 650k plus, and condo fees on top of it. They make $150 k a year between them.  My other kids in the area aren’t even looking. Conversely I have another kid who is early 30’s, SAHM, husband works an average job, they bought a nice 3 bedroom suburban home in what some consider a high cost area - but it was only $350k.