8 Passengers: Youtuber's Take Son's Bed and Refuse to Give Daughter Lunch

[JanasTattooParlor]

4 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

@feministxtian @Aine

My eldest child (teenager) is like you describe youselves. He socializes well, but it drains him.

I would really really appreciate if you give me some tips to help him. Thank you in advance!!!

I’m not either of the people you mentioned, but I very much relate to them and your son. My best advice as someone who was not ever allowed their decompress time as a teen because my parents thought it meant I was being mean and didn’t want to spend time with them (which I never do now because they’ve never respected my personal boundaries, but that’s a whole other can of worms) is when he comes home from school or going out with friends or any event is to ask if he’d like some time to unwind afterwards and to not immediately bombard him with questions about how it was and the like. This shows that you understand his need to decompress and that he’s allowed to have that time. I know for me, I have a social limit that once I hit it, I need to leave wherever I am and start unwinding otherwise I get really cranky and overwhelmed. So make sure to watch him in highly social settings to see if you can see when he hits that limit, and if you see that he has, gently suggest he find a place to relax and maybe only talk to one person instead of several. I always found back porches when my parents took me to their friends’ houses for parties or found one person I knew and just talked to them. The big thing is letting him know you understand and respect that he needs space to decompress and that you allow him to do that in whatever way he needs it. I’m a teacher, so I’m literally socializing for hours on end, and when I come home I have to sit on the couch for a half hour and catch up on FJ or I tear my fiancé’s head off when he tries to talk to me when he comes home from work. 

[Alisamer]

7 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

@feministxtian @Aine

My eldest child (teenager) is like you describe youselves. He socializes well, but it drains him.

I would really really appreciate if you give me some tips to help him. Thank you in advance!!!

I'm not either of them, but I also get drained by too much social interaction. I think the fact you understand that it CAN be draining is a very good start! I still sometimes have to tell my mother "OK, I love you people, but I need to go sit at home by myself for a while."

So I think letting him know you understand, and that he can tell you "OK, I need some decompression time now" will go a long way toward helping him. Making sure he knows that you don't consider it an insult if he needs to go be by himself after a family gathering will help. Not assuming something's wrong if he's being quiet will help.

Maybe try to notice if there are certain times of day he really needs some alone time, and help him get that. Like for me, I like that I work about a 20 minute drive away, because I really need that alone time on the way home, especially if I have to go somewhere after. I personally really don't want to talk to anyone at all the first 20-30 minutes after I wake up, either. 

And if there are ways he can recharge while in a crowd, helping him do those will help, too. For example, if I'm feeling drained but am on a bus or something, I'll pull out my phone and read or play a game, something where I'm not interacting with any other people. Just letting me be inside my own mind for a bit helps, even if I'm just staring out the window.

[Four is Enough]

On 6/9/2020 at 3:16 PM, Petronella said:

You're not quoting who you're referring to, is it the anecdote way back about a kid forgetting their lunch? I think a ten or twelve year old? You would call CPS on a family for a kid forgetting their lunch???

I was the mother of the 9 year old who conveniently "forgot" his lunches for a spell in third grade. His school did not have lunch service, and he knew that, and had been packing his lunch with supervision since first grade. I would NEVER have wanted him to be left without food as a kindergartner. As a 9 year old, however, I figured he'd had breakfast and would eat as soon as school ended, and he could wait that long.

I am, however, also the mother of  people whose doors were not removed, but whose doorknobs were, for a time. Did you know that a door cannot slam with that big hole where the doorknob was whooshing air through it? There will be no door slamming in my house.

Ditto, if you put your fist or your foot through my drywall, you will get a lesson or six in how to repair and cover the mess.

You will notice that doorknobs were not removed permanently, and privacy was permitted, and the repair was the natural result of the damage done.

[SunnySide]

This all makes me angry but the lunch thing for the five year old keeps sticking with me. The mom touting that “it’s her lunch, her responsibility” honestly can a 5 year old even really make a proper lunch? Secondly if you’re trying to teach the child the consequence of “no lunch no food” that’s idiotic because most adults I know just buy a quick or cheapie lunch if they forget. So that’s not really a life lesson. Not to mention going too hungry too long will affect her education. Can you imagine how dumbfounded the school staff must have been at a parent saying “don’t feed my kid!” It’s like she has these kids and now she’s mad she needs to raise them...free all the kids!

Edited June 11, 2020 by SunnySide
Typo

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, SunnySide said:

This all makes me angry but the lunch thing for the five year old keeps sticking with me. The mom touting that “it’s her lunch, her responsibility” honestly can a 5 year old even really make a proper lunch? Secondly if you’re trying to teach the child the consequence of “no lunch no food” that’s idiotic because most adults I know just buy a quick or cheapie lunch if they forget. So that’s not really a life lesson. Not to mention going too hungry too long will affect her education. Can you imagine how dumbfounded the school staff must have been at a parent saying “don’t feed my kid!” It’s like she has these kids and now she’s mad she needs to raise them...free all the kids!

I totally agree. My son forgot his lunch when he was 6 and I brought it to school for him. It only happened that one time. He can be forgetful, but he’s such a picky eater, I think it helps him remember. I think he doesn’t like what they serve for lunch 90% of the time. Of course he approves of pizza day. But he doesn’t even bother buying lunch on pizza day since he likes his packed lunch more. Even though he eats lunch at school, he still comes home at 3 ready to eat. I imagine if he went all day, he would be starving and not paying attention to his work. 

[Walking Cat Bed]

My friends who are teachers, especially of little kids, would give up (pre-packaged) parts of their own lunch rather than let a kindergartener go hungry. And would have serious concerns if the parent told them to let said kid go without because "their lunch is their responsibility". 

[Marmion]

17 hours ago, Pleiades_06 said:

I like the interaction between Chad and Eve here. They have similar rebellious personalities.

Eve was sent home for not wearing her uniform the right way. She walked away from the person talking to her about it. And she doesn’t keep her room clean. So Ruby announces no more extracurricular activities/no more dance for Eve. 

I’m glad my parents validated my feelings about having to wear a similar uniform as a child and then pulled me out of that school when they saw it was stressing me out.

This may be overkill , and I might be stating the obvious , but controlling such things as clothing and hairstyle is characteristic of the behavior control of a cult .  https://freedomofmind.com/bite-model/   

Quote

You can modify people's behavior just by putting them in a certain kind of dress," says Carolyn Jessop, a former spiritual wife of Merrill Jessop, the bishop of the Texas FLDS enclave. "It is a uniform. You have nothing about you that's individual. You're just a part of a whole."

The homespun prairie styles - most can be traced to modest Mormon pioneer fashions - are intended to make polygamists stick out from the rest of us and band together.

"By dressing the same, you have this solidarity," says Janet Bennion, an anthropology professor at Lyndon State College in Vermont who has studied fundamentalist Mormon polygamists.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-lowdown-on-fundamenta_b_96786    If this family is any indication , I would concur with those whom would deem the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to be a cult . {  https://freedomofmind.com/the-bite-model-mormonism-an-exploration-with-john-dehlin/   , https://freedomofmind.com/the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/ }    So if  this YouTube channel was trying to put a pretty face on Mormon family life , it has failed miserably .  

[Mirla]

My kids’ school feeds kids in K-6 even if their parents don’t pay.  The kids may not like what they’re fed, but food is put in front of them.  I’ve seen teachers discreetly pass out Lunchables for kids who forgot their lunch on field trips too.  Older kids risk not getting lunch, but not the littles.  I expect the teachers would be mortified if they were asked not to feed a kindergartener.

I always made a best effort to bring important things my kids forgot to school. But if I couldn’t, I taught them that it was ultimately their responsibility.  I made a best effort to help them, but they had to deal with the natural consequences if I couldn’t, and I refused to accept blame for it, which seems pretty fair to me.  Actively preventing a kindergartner from eating lunch as a punishment does not.

 

[Marmion]

14 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

@feministxtian @Aine

My eldest child (teenager) is like you describe youselves. He socializes well, but it drains him.

I would really really appreciate if you give me some tips to help him. Thank you in advance!!!

I'll just let this YouTuber address this . She like me , is an introvert .  

Spoiler

 

 

[feministxtian]

15 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

@feministxtian @Aine

My eldest child (teenager) is like you describe youselves. He socializes well, but it drains him.

I would really really appreciate if you give me some tips to help him. Thank you in advance!!!

1. Don't force him into social interactions

2. Respect when he shuts down (sleeps, solitary pursuits)

3. Let him be him

I'm currently teaching...4 hours a day with people, having to be "on" and listening to myself talk drains me. I come home and head for a nap. I need at least 2 hours of snooze time to recharge and then I spend the rest of the day with myself. School SUCKS when you're an introvert. It's hard to be "on" for that long. Let your kid figure out how they recharge best. Don't fuss if the kid shuts down (won't talk, is "off into outer space"). If they sleep, let them sleep. Give time on weekends to pursue solitary things (reading, video games, etc). Above all, RESPECT his introversion. It's not a bad character trait, it's not bad. It's just different. 

[DarkAnts]

On 6/9/2020 at 2:32 PM, Aine said:

That Instagram post about "taking responsibility" gets so close to a healthy conversation but completely misses the actual message that I'd be giving Eve. For starters, way to out a prospective friend on your very public IG who is clearly going through something. Honestly, sometimes it's really difficult to find the right headspace to write a message to someone you presumably don't know that well to explain what's happened in your life that has made it stressful. I imagine the constant messaging only increased that woman's anxiety/guilt about not responding immediately. It's also entirely possible that they had very loose possible plans and Ruby took it as an "appointment". Who has "appointments" with friends? Bloody hell...that woman probably dodged a bullet when she didn't feel up to spending time with someone she just met.

But back to Eve...one of the biggest things we do when it comes to nervousness or anxiety in kids as therapists is to teach their parents to gently encourage their child, to assure them that some anxiety/nervousness/worry is normal but we won't know if we should be scared of it if we don't try and do it anyway and be brave (if the thing isn't actually dangerous obviously). It's not a philosophy of "throw the kid in the deep end" when they're afraid of water but more of the parent going with the kiddo to do thing they are scared of or if that isn't possible, reassuring them and talking about it beforehand (e.g. "I bet it will be a little scary meeting all these new kids today at church! Just remember that you're doing something brave and you'll get to make lots of friends and they will be lucky to get to meet you too!"). One of the biggest ways that anxiety is transmitted to children is more through modeling then genetic risk. Anxious parents are more likely to hang back from groups of other parents or avoid certain things or more likely to coddle their child and tell them it's okay not to do thing they're scared of ("Maybe next time you'll feel better about it" kind of thing) or give too much comfort to them when they're nervous about something not dangerous. For example, a shy or anxious kid might not want to approach a group of kids playing at the playground and if a parent is socially anxious themselves, they're more likely to not encourage the kid to go ahead and see if they can play with the other kids or hug them/comfort them and unintentionally reinforce the kid, which increases anxiety because it's sending the message that they are justified in feeling fear- this this situation is fearful (pos reinforcement of comfort, neg reinforcement by letting them avoid the situation). An anxious parent is less likely to go with the child to the playground equipment, play with their kid, and then maybe guide the process of joining in the other kids' game (e.g. "Are you all playing tag? Jane loves playing tag, don't you Jane?! Is it okay if she joins in?"), which models how Jane can do that herself in the future and models that the situation is nothing to be afraid of.

I *think* maybe Ruby was going for that with her conversation with Eve but it doesn't seem like she's modeling it for her kid and given what I have seen now in their videos, I'm sure Eve got punished for her "misbehavior" at the new church class by Ruby and Kevin. Also, painting it as 'responsibility' rather than 'it's good to make new friends, even though it can be a little scary sometimes! Let's try again next week!' puts an added level of pressure on Eve the following week and maybe Eve will now think that the other kids/teacher think she's a "bad kid" already and that will only increase anxiety.

I really dislike this woman. Honestly, I think the damage she is doing to her children through her emotional abuse is worse than many fundies we follow who have all these rules and restrictions. At least the expectations in many of those families is somewhat consistent and doesn't change day to day. I'm prone to telling parents that all house 'rules' really come down to just two rules- 1) Show respect to others; 2) Show kindness to others. Pretty much any rule you can come up with that's a negative (e.g. "Don't do ______________") will be covered by those two. Long lists of "Don't dos" aren't effective and don't tell the kids what to do. It's assuming they will do all those "Don't dos" with no clear guiding values they should keep in their mind when dealing with life.

I gave a friends son a worry eater monster earlier this year. The kid is 4. He was having a difficult time feeling safe after an earthquake. He kept his coat on in the house because he was afraid he would have to run outside. The worry eater monster has helped him learn to express his fears and find comfort. Each night his parents sit in bed with him and discuss the day. They write them down his worries on paper and let the monster eat them. It has helped so much. 
 

I forgot lunch once in third grade. I had to go to the principals office and ask to borrow some lunch money. He checked in to make sure I had enough to eat at home. He then gave me a few suggestions on what I can do so I don't forget my lunch again. Going to the principals office was enough to make me  remember my lunch. I had to use my allowance to repay the lunch money. My parents helped me write a check list of things I needed to remember to take to school. No extreme punishment was needed.

Edited June 12, 2020 by DarkAnts

[Ozlsn]

3 hours ago, Marmion said:

This may be overkill , and I might be stating the obvious , but controlling such things as clothing and hairstyle is characteristic of the behavior control of a cult .

Heh, in that case pretty much every Australian school is a cult - uniforms are pretty standard here. How strict they are about it depends a lot on the school, and on the age of the child - and on whether it's a state or private school.  Most of them though would work with the parents for a kindergarten kid in their first year of school who was having trouble over anything, whether that was sensory issues with the uniform, struggling to adapt to the new routine or whatever. The main thing my son had issues with was "No hat, no outside play" in terms 1 and 4 - but we found him a hat he was happy with and made sure he had sunscreen on and he's happy to now grab it, put it on his head and tear out the door.

I very much doubt a kindergarten kid would be sent home over uniform issues, ffs.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Ozlsn

[Pleiades_06]

4 hours ago, Marmion said:

This may be overkill , and I might be stating the obvious , but controlling such things as clothing and hairstyle is characteristic of the behavior control of a cult .

Eh, if that’s how we define cult, then the Catholic Church is one too.

I think it’s overkill to call it a cult but it’s definitely controlling.

[Alisamer]

11 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

Heh, in that case pretty much every Australian school is a cult - uniforms are pretty standard here. 

LOL! I really think there's a huge difference between wearing a uniform a few hours a day for school or a job, and wearing strictly prescribed clothing 24/7 because otherwise you'll go to hell.

[Hane]

@Pleiades_06, I was a devout Catholic for the first 50+ years of my life, and never encountered control of clothing or hair styles. Are you specifically referring to Catholic school uniforms? That’s a whole different subject.

[Pleiades_06]

10 minutes ago, Hane said:

@Pleiades_06, I was a devout Catholic for the first 50+ years of my life, and never encountered control of clothing or hair styles. Are you specifically referring to Catholic school uniforms? That’s a whole different subject.

I’m referring to my own Catholic school experience from grades 1-3. Not all parishes all the same. My school and parish was controlling and old school.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Pleiades_06

[HereComesTreble]

I don’t buy the “she lost extracurricular activities privileges” bit.  The parents were over dance classes.  They used this minor uniform issue as an excuse to stop paying for & driving to dance class.

I mean, really, dance class!?! Talk about learning self-discipline, structure, working with a team, listening, etc.  Right—take a class like that away for a behavior issue...

[Marmion]

10 hours ago, Alisamer said:

LOL! I really think there's a huge difference between wearing a uniform a few hours a day for school or a job, and wearing strictly prescribed clothing 24/7 because otherwise you'll go to hell.

Well put .  Yeah , it's sort of like how in many dojo ( training halls) students will be required to wear a gi ( uniform) , even in ones that aren't necessarily martial arts cults .  That one aspect doesn't in and of itself cause the organization to constitute a cult . It's the culmination of comprehensive characteristics , described in these videos , in relation to the analogous example I gave 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

However , while uniforms don't necessarily automatically make something a cult situation , it certainly can still factor in .  Like think of how uniforms have played into the ACE schools we've mentioned before , such as in the Hephzibah House thread , for example .  https://www.patheos.com/blogs/leavingfundamentalism/2014/04/14/my-life-in-an-ace-school/  But it's not any one thing along that makes something a cult .  

[Aine]

On 6/11/2020 at 9:26 PM, DarkAnts said:

I gave a friends son a worry eater monster earlier this year. The kid is 4. He was having a difficult time feeling safe after an earthquake. He kept his coat on in the house because he was afraid he would have to run outside. The worry eater monster has helped him learn to express his fears and find comfort. Each night his parents sit in bed with him and discuss the day. They write them down his worries on paper and let the monster eat them. It has helped so much. 
 

I forgot lunch once in third grade. I had to go to the principals office and ask to borrow some lunch money. He checked in to make sure I had enough to eat at home. He then gave me a few suggestions on what I can do so I don't forget my lunch again. Going to the principals office was enough to make me  remember my lunch. I had to use my allowance to repay the lunch money. My parents helped me write a check list of things I needed to remember to take to school. No extreme punishment was needed.

This is the kind of parenting from your parents, and the kind of adult influence with you giving your friend's kid a Worry Eater Monster and parenting from your friend and their partner for the 4 yr old that I dream of achieving for so many of my kid patients and their parents. ??

Not shame or punitive punishment, natural consequences. And with anxious kiddo, teaching him to express his worries rather than internalizing them and feeling ashamed. His parents get an opportunity to problem solve with him and partially expose him to his fears by talking about them! And you helped by facilitating that and giving him some exposure to sitting with them to write them down as well. I love this!

[clueliss]

At least three YouTube personalities have received cease and desist letters from Ruby.  Kendall Rich, Slo4n and Katie Joy (without a crystal ball).  

[CyborgKin]

On 6/8/2020 at 7:38 AM, Aine said:

I'm a psychologist and we don't diagnose ADHD that young because most symptoms of ADHD are normative for children younger than 6. In fact, it's an exclusionary criterion for an ADHD diagnosis. However, the prescribing of ADHD medications has become much more controlled and most primary care doctors and pediatricians now require a diagnostic assessment from a psychologist or psychometrist before they prescribe these medications now days. An ADHD assessment uses many standardized assessment tools, multiple informant measures and interviews (parents, kid, teachers etc), and observation to rule out and rule in appropriate diagnoses. For example, common differential diagnoses can be learning disorders (e.g. dyslexia), cognitive impairments, anxiety disorders, behavioral issues etc. or contextual factors that impact behavior (e.g. being bullied at school, overly lax discipline, absence of structure and routine).

Unfortunately, there used to be a huge problem with the over-diagnosis of ADHD and the gold-standard treatment is medication and behavioral supports (e.g. teaching the kid or adult or parent of kid strategies to minimize the symptoms of ADHD) but the stimulants prescribed for ADHD will make the behaviors of kids who don't actually have ADHD worse because you've just given a kid who doesn't have a neurological condition that causes them to be constantly under stimulated a stimulant! *face palm*

Your ex-boss sounds awful. I hope that kiddo grew up and got out of there

Thanks for that info!

I remember a fundy anti-school documentary which was pushing the narrative that "they're diagnosing and drugging all our boys just for being normal boys"  Sounds like the people claiming that don't even know what's used to treat ADHD.

[ADoyle90815]

On 6/12/2020 at 7:25 AM, Alisamer said:

LOL! I really think there's a huge difference between wearing a uniform a few hours a day for school or a job, and wearing strictly prescribed clothing 24/7 because otherwise you'll go to hell.

This! In Mormonism, people who go to the temple are required afterwards to wear special underwear called garments, as if they don't they're not going to get to the higher levels of heaven. They're also designed in a way that those who wear them have to dress very modestly to cover them, which is why Mormons don't wear sleeveless items, or shorts that hit above the knee. Wearing a uniform for school or job is different, since you're only wearing it while on campus, or at work. When not at school or working, you can wear whatever you want. I'm one of those who does wear a uniform at work, but since we've been shut down, I wear regular casual clothes, and my work uniforms have been hanging in the closet since March.

[Hane]

@ADoyle90815, in another forum, a woman who had grown up Mormon talked about this. She was very short, and said that it is forbidden to alter garments to make them shorter, because it would mean cutting off the sacred markings embroidered on the knees. She was annoyed that taller girls and women would buy the petite sizes in order to bypass the wardrobe limitations that longer garment bottoms would cause.

[Glasgowghirl]

On 6/18/2020 at 2:44 AM, clueliss said:

At least three YouTube personalities have received cease and desist letters from Ruby.  Kendall Rich, Slo4n and Katie Joy (without a crystal ball).  

I can't stand Katie Joy at all but Ruby can't be mad at people reporting and commenting on the stuff she has put online for all to see. People are concerned for the welfare of those children especially Chad and Eve, the two children that always seem to be the scapegoats for everything. 

Ruby reminds me of Kate Gosselin a lot she seems to take pride in hurting her children's feelings, the few clips I have watched with her in it make me feel sick. 

[Pleiades_06]

I was just reading more into “wilderness programs” and Anasazi. On the surface, they look fine-it can be a great experience to go and live in the wilderness. But then I read this: 

Spoiler

The 49-day program aids families of youth with mild-to-moderate mood disorders, behavioral problems, attachment disorders and/or adjustment difficulties. These would include depression, anxiety; bipolar disorder; oppositional behaviors; substance abuse; relational problems with family, school, law enforcement and/or peers; self-harming behaviors (eating problems, cutting, etc.); poor social skills; lack of motivation; entitlement orientations and other similar problems related to a lack of self-regulation and moral identity

Source: https://www.anasazi.org/about-anasazi-foundation.html/

Um, no. We have some of those disorders in my family and I find it hard to believe this program would treat them. How would living in the desert help an ED or BPD?? The last phrase, “moral identity ,” is also a red flag. I think it’s code for religious induction.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Pleiades_06