8 Passengers: Youtuber's Take Son's Bed and Refuse to Give Daughter Lunch

[Petronella]

1 hour ago, teachergirl said:

holy cow, as a teacher, that would warrant a phone call to CPS or at the very least, talking to admin, guidance counselor, school nurse...and I would never let a child go hungry no matter what their parents said.

You're not quoting who you're referring to, is it the anecdote way back about a kid forgetting their lunch? I think a ten or twelve year old? You would call CPS on a family for a kid forgetting their lunch???

I totally understand the people saying they would help the kid get some lunch, rather than the consequences the parent asked. I understand urging the parent to be more involved in helping the kid to remember, rather than leaving it entirely up to them. But calling CPS?? That seems well over the top. The parent, after all, isn't refusing to provide lunch in the first place; they're providing it and the kid is forgetting it. Again, I would urge the parent to be more proactive about helping them remember. But CPS??

Edited June 9, 2020 by Petronella

[Kailash]

@Petronella I believe @teachergirl is referring to the post about Eve, the kindergartner who forgot her lunch. 

 

[Aine]

20 hours ago, feministxtian said:

Introvert and socializing: I'm a serious, homebody introvert. I LOVE being by myself. Now I'm teaching 4 hours a day 4 days a week. I came home today and crashed. While I love teaching and I love what I'm teaching, it's exhausting to have to run my mouth for a couple hours of class every day, interact with students, all that stuff. Oh well...it's mostly fun and it pays well. I like it better than being in an office

 

This is me. When I come home from work, I've been doing therapy across all ages and levels all day (my patient load right now ranges in age from 4-72, from moderate intellectual disability to one patient who maxed out the IQ scale on her cognitive assessments, from mild depression or adjustment disorder to patients debilitated by multiple comorbidities and complex environmental stressors and barriers to them making progress), and I literally cannot be talked to when I first get in the door. Every person I've ever lived with has had to learn that I ideally need 30 mins to get changed, cuddle with my dog, and just be alone before I can interact or else I become completely overwhelmed and agitated. I don't have any social anxiety or shyness but I am very much an introvert. Sometimes people think that because I can be social and enjoy time with others, that I'm an extrovert. But being around others, especially lots of them, completely drains me. I recharge alone.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Aine
typo

[Aine]

That Instagram post about "taking responsibility" gets so close to a healthy conversation but completely misses the actual message that I'd be giving Eve. For starters, way to out a prospective friend on your very public IG who is clearly going through something. Honestly, sometimes it's really difficult to find the right headspace to write a message to someone you presumably don't know that well to explain what's happened in your life that has made it stressful. I imagine the constant messaging only increased that woman's anxiety/guilt about not responding immediately. It's also entirely possible that they had very loose possible plans and Ruby took it as an "appointment". Who has "appointments" with friends? Bloody hell...that woman probably dodged a bullet when she didn't feel up to spending time with someone she just met.

But back to Eve...one of the biggest things we do when it comes to nervousness or anxiety in kids as therapists is to teach their parents to gently encourage their child, to assure them that some anxiety/nervousness/worry is normal but we won't know if we should be scared of it if we don't try and do it anyway and be brave (if the thing isn't actually dangerous obviously). It's not a philosophy of "throw the kid in the deep end" when they're afraid of water but more of the parent going with the kiddo to do thing they are scared of or if that isn't possible, reassuring them and talking about it beforehand (e.g. "I bet it will be a little scary meeting all these new kids today at church! Just remember that you're doing something brave and you'll get to make lots of friends and they will be lucky to get to meet you too!"). One of the biggest ways that anxiety is transmitted to children is more through modeling then genetic risk. Anxious parents are more likely to hang back from groups of other parents or avoid certain things or more likely to coddle their child and tell them it's okay not to do thing they're scared of ("Maybe next time you'll feel better about it" kind of thing) or give too much comfort to them when they're nervous about something not dangerous. For example, a shy or anxious kid might not want to approach a group of kids playing at the playground and if a parent is socially anxious themselves, they're more likely to not encourage the kid to go ahead and see if they can play with the other kids or hug them/comfort them and unintentionally reinforce the kid, which increases anxiety because it's sending the message that they are justified in feeling fear- this this situation is fearful (pos reinforcement of comfort, neg reinforcement by letting them avoid the situation). An anxious parent is less likely to go with the child to the playground equipment, play with their kid, and then maybe guide the process of joining in the other kids' game (e.g. "Are you all playing tag? Jane loves playing tag, don't you Jane?! Is it okay if she joins in?"), which models how Jane can do that herself in the future and models that the situation is nothing to be afraid of.

I *think* maybe Ruby was going for that with her conversation with Eve but it doesn't seem like she's modeling it for her kid and given what I have seen now in their videos, I'm sure Eve got punished for her "misbehavior" at the new church class by Ruby and Kevin. Also, painting it as 'responsibility' rather than 'it's good to make new friends, even though it can be a little scary sometimes! Let's try again next week!' puts an added level of pressure on Eve the following week and maybe Eve will now think that the other kids/teacher think she's a "bad kid" already and that will only increase anxiety.

I really dislike this woman. Honestly, I think the damage she is doing to her children through her emotional abuse is worse than many fundies we follow who have all these rules and restrictions. At least the expectations in many of those families is somewhat consistent and doesn't change day to day. I'm prone to telling parents that all house 'rules' really come down to just two rules- 1) Show respect to others; 2) Show kindness to others. Pretty much any rule you can come up with that's a negative (e.g. "Don't do ______________") will be covered by those two. Long lists of "Don't dos" aren't effective and don't tell the kids what to do. It's assuming they will do all those "Don't dos" with no clear guiding values they should keep in their mind when dealing with life.

[llucie]

4 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I imagine Chad knew his private school sucked and preferred public school. He likely has way more freedom there. I can see him making a run for it when he graduates. These parents seem like the type that would treat adult children still living at home like they are preschoolers. 

She has actually said she doesnt want them to keep living in the house once they are 18. Aparently her parents did the same with her. She meet and married her husband in her first year of college at 18.

She also has said that if any of the kids wants to go to university they will only pay for it if its the mormon university the father works at. Any other university they are on their own.

So basically if they want to follow any other path than be mormon and marry young they are pretty screwed.

 

[Marmion]

22 hours ago, clueliss said:

It’s anasazi Foundation.  I scrolled thru the Instagram account and a post has a link.  
 

  Hide contents

I think I might have heard of them before .  From what I have read , there have been suspicions of possible abuse .  

Quote

ARIZONA

Anasazi Foundation located in Mesa, AZ was founded by Larry Dean Olsen, a long-time associate of Steve Cartisano, is likely abusive. Please read: http://www.nospank.net/bacon2.htm (On any page, you can click on "edit", "find (on this page)", and enter in a word such as "Anasazi" to find it on the page.) Please contact us if you were abused or had your rights violated by Anasazi. We highly suspect Anasazi Foundation of being an abusive program. For staff and background info, click here.

 

- https://teenchallengeinternational.blogspot.com/2013/11/    

http://www.nospank.net/bacon2.htm  

[Exchange Atheist]

8 hours ago, FluffySnowball said:

I saw another clip (different video, IIRC) in which Kevin goes on and on about how unnecessary the word “l” is, that it shouldn’t even be a part of the English language and how much better it would be if people just thought of themselves in their family unit as a collective “we”.

That’s rich. I’ve just watched three videos of them and I’m fairly sure that the mom hasn’t spent a single sentence talking about something other than herself. It’s all MY house, MY kids, MY time as a mother, MY van, MY time in health class. 

[clueliss]

Video of Ruby registering Chad for public school about 6 months ago.  (Note, he has a bed in this video)

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And this is his first day of school.  He gives her grief about him not having a backpack.

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[akinom]

15 hours ago, clueliss said:

 

i found this one interesting,  She flooded the house. She eventually gets into the entire story of what happens. But this person study to be a life coach can’t remember to pay the water and electric bill.

 

 

In the name of fairness, shouldn’t there be consequences for flooding the house? No showers? Too much of a punishment for everyone else perhaps ?She forgot to turn the water off because she vlogged and had a snack, so - no vlogging and no snacks! 

[HereComesTreble]

9 hours ago, Petronella said:

You're not quoting who you're referring to, is it the anecdote way back about a kid forgetting their lunch? I think a ten or twelve year old? You would call CPS on a family for a kid forgetting their lunch???

I don't think the poster's CPS reference was in regard to forgetting the lunch.  I believe it was because the mom told the teacher not to feed the kindergartener.  

Personally, it's an iffy call. CPS can really screw up a family's life and the process can be truly terrifying for the kids.  One missed lunch isn't going to hurt a child--so maybe it's best to leave the situation alone.  On the other hand, teachers are mandated reporters.  They can legally get in trouble for not reporting signs of abuse.  Not feeding your child is abuse (neglect) and the mother directly told the teacher not to replace the kindergartener's missing lunch.  Also, if a mother is brazen enough to say to a teacher "my kindergartener needs to learn a lesson, so don't feed her," what type of things are said/done at home when no one else is around?

[Petronella]

17 hours ago, clueliss said:

At some point in here Eve forgets her lunch,  “lies” about having packed her lunch and Ruby gets a call from teacher,  tells teacher to not feed her.  Eve is in kindergarten.  

Ah, I have gone back and found it. Thank you all for responding.

I have been reading many threads, and mistakenly thought this was in reference to a different (but oddly similar) situation in which a middle-school age child had forgotten lunch. (Maybe in the discussion about “Love and Logic” in the Hephzibah House thread?)

It is indeed a kindergartner being discussed here. Apologies for my misunderstanding.

[Ozlsn]

11 hours ago, Aine said:

For starters, way to out a prospective friend on your very public IG who is clearly going through something.

I read that more as a prospective client who was trying very hard to ghost her. Seriously, if she hasn't answered three texts about a "very important appointment" maybe it's not that important to the client? Just send a "let me know when it's a better time" text and write it off (this is possibly why I am not in sales, granted.)

I can't blame the prospective client either, I'd be a bit dubious about paying this particular woman for life coaching too.

9 hours ago, llucie said:

She has actually said she doesnt want them to keep living in the house once they are 18. Aparently her parents did the same with her. She meet and married her husband in her first year of college at 18.

She also has said that if any of the kids wants to go to university they will only pay for it if its the mormon university the father works at. Any other university they are on their own.

So basically if they want to follow any other path than be mormon and marry young they are pretty screwed.

So can they keep living at home if they go to that specific university, or do they have to leave at 18 anyway? I hope Chad and the younger kids can get scholarships if they want to study further afield.

[Pleiades_06]

Oh man-Ruby recommends people read The Coddling of the American mind. The authors are two white, Ivy League educated dudes who think minorities pointing out microagressions and trigger warnings about content like rape are “coddling.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/

This is a review stating how one-sided these authors are. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2018/sep/20/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind-review

It’s ironic that these elite white men are arguing against “safe spaces “ for minorities and women. It seems like they just want to protect their precious white world from criticism.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Pleiades_06

[clueliss]

This one is Chad getting suspended from school for a day for clowning around and goofing off therefore I am leaning towards uptight Mormon school with rigid rules.  Timing is around January 2019.  
 

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[llucie]

10 hours ago, clueliss said:

Video of Ruby registering Chad for public school about 6 months ago.  (Note, he has a bed in this video)

And this is his first day of school.  He gives her grief about him not having a backpack.

 

The backpack situation is also very problematic. Obviously not as bad as not giving him a bed, but a backpack is a necessity for going to school. And its not like they cant afford it. Seems really petty not to buy him one and make him stand out in his new school on purpose, maybe as punishement for not wanting to go to mormon school. All the other kids got backpacks.

[BookwormExtraordinaire]

I haven’t watched this family before since I try to stay away from family vloggers and not give them views and revenue, but then I realised that Ruby is the sister of Ellie who has a YT channel along with her husband that I watched for a while many years ago when they were about to have their first baby. Apparently nearly all of Ellie’s (and Jared’s?) siblings have more or less active YT channels, so pimping their kids out on the Internet seems to be a family activity. Well, I guess I have zero self-discipline because I got curious and watched a few videos to get an idea of the family, and one thing really stood out to me.

Ruby just doesn't seem to enjoy being a parent very much. I understand that all parents (especially those with many kids) are tired, frustrated and irritated sometimes, but that seems to be her normal. She picks on (at least some of) her kids constantly and almost seems to want them to misbehave so that she can punish them. The punishments often seem quite extreme, like taking away someone's phone for six months after getting a bad grade in school. 

If Ruby had been born in a different environment instead of one where having kids and preferrably lots of them is pretty much mandatory, I wonder if she would’ve had any at all. She strikes me as being unsatisfied with her own life and taking it out on her own children who never seem to be good enough. The fact that she has apparently said that she expects them to be out of the house and on their own as soon as they turn 18 just reinforces this. 

I haven’t seen enough of the dad (Kevin?) to form an opinion about him, but he obviously supports Ruby’s decisions and punishments even if he is not always present in the vlogs. The big decisions, like sending their eldest son away to that wilderness camp and then removing his bed for several months when he comes back, are clearly mutual.

Regarding the incident with the youngest daughter forgetting her lunch, I find it strange that Ruby seems to focus on how the teacher is uncomfortable with a 5-year-old not eating for a whole day and not on how it affects her own child. And then saying that she hopes that no one gives the girl food so that she learns a lesson! Seriously!

IMO this family is a perfect example of why family vlogging is just altogether awful. Most of the content is based on the kids, and a lot of it seems to be stuff that could be embarrassing to have on the Internet for any teen. Although the kids are the main reason to why the channel is doing so well, all the money seem to go straight into the parents' pockets and not into college funds for the kids.

[FluffySnowball]

7 hours ago, llucie said:

The backpack situation is also very problematic. Obviously not as bad as not giving him a bed, but a backpack is a necessity for going to school. And its not like they cant afford it. Seems really petty not to buy him one and make him stand out in his new school on purpose, maybe as punishement for not wanting to go to mormon school. All the other kids got backpacks.

I would say that in these circumstances, this is a form of abuse.

Of course most parents can’t afford to buy their children everything they want and also, parents shouldn’t just buy anything and everything. But I get the impression Kevin and Ruby enjoy shaming and embarrassing their children, they like withholding things because they themselves take pleasure in seeing their kids unhappy. Many things they do aren’t done with the intend to create a healthy, respectful, and loving home environment, and this is one example IMO.

In a way, this instance reminds me of the Dursleys in the "Philosopher’s Stone”. They could have bought Harry a new school uniform for the muggle school the wanted to send him to, but they chose not to because embarrassing him and saving a buck was more important than  treating him properly. His well-being didn’t matter. 

I’m just glad they (the Frankes) don’t homeschool! 

[Ozlsn]

1 hour ago, BookwormExtraordinaire said:

She picks on (at least some of) her kids constantly and almost seems to want them to misbehave so that she can punish them.

I haven't watched any of the videos, but one thing that struck me from the description of one of them is that it sounds like she essentially plays her kids off against each other. I could be completely wrong here, but that was my strong impression - and if it's the case that is really unhealthy.

[Marmion]

On 6/9/2020 at 11:30 AM, FluffySnowball said:

She and Kevin seem to push the idea that the individual means nothing and the family unit means everything. I saw another clip (different video, IIRC) in which Kevin goes on and on about how unnecessary the word “l” is, that it shouldn’t even be a part of the English language and how much better it would be if people just thought of themselves in their family unit as a collective “we”. That’s emotionally unhealthy and absolutely sucks!!! 

Quote

After a cult has successfully thrown away your old life and replaced it with a new one, they focus on reshaping your identity. They break down your conception of yourself as an individual and replace it with the group. You are no longer the name you received at birth. You are now, for example, a disciple of the People's Temple. This tactic is discussed in an article published by San Diego State University about Jim Jones and his psychological revolution. The article reads, "The cost for Jones' followers was to further lose their independence of thought and opinion." The cult's identity consumes your own, and there becomes no difference between you and the rest of the group .

https://www.grunge.com/47584/cults-trick-believing/   

[Marmion]

3 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

I haven't watched any of the videos, but one thing that struck me from the description of one of them is that it sounds like she essentially plays her kids off against each other. I could be completely wrong here, but that was my strong impression - and if it's the case that is really unhealthy.

Quote

Siblings Not Encouraged to Be Close. In healthy families, we encourage our children to be loving and close to each other. In narcissistic families, children are pitted against each other and taught competition. There is a constant comparison of who is doing better and who is not. Some are favored or seen as "the golden child," and others become the scapegoat for a parent's projected negative feelings. Siblings in narcissistic families rarely grow up feeling emotionally connected to each other.   

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-legacy-distorted-love/201105/the-narcissistic-family-tree

Edited June 11, 2020 by Marmion

[Pleiades_06]

I like the interaction between Chad and Eve here. They have similar rebellious personalities.

Eve was sent home for not wearing her uniform the right way. She walked away from the person talking to her about it. And she doesn’t keep her room clean. So Ruby announces no more extracurricular activities/no more dance for Eve. 

I’m glad my parents validated my feelings about having to wear a similar uniform as a child and then pulled me out of that school when they saw it was stressing me out.

[katilac]

2 hours ago, Pleiades_06 said:

I like the interaction between Chad and Eve here. They have similar rebellious personalities.

I watched literally less than a minute (I'm very impatient with videos, lol), but still have a question: why is the child's mouth literally stuffed with food?  Did mom give her a giant spoonful of peanut butter and then quickly start filming so she couldn't respond, lol? 

[Melissa1977]

@feministxtian @Aine

My eldest child (teenager) is like you describe youselves. He socializes well, but it drains him.

I would really really appreciate if you give me some tips to help him. Thank you in advance!!!

[clueliss]

@Pleiades_06 I noticed the other girls tried to explain why Eve wore it that way.  And I think there is an older video that Ruby has tagged (haven’t watched) that Eve doesn’t like uniforms.  She’s in kindergarten.  She went from a free spirited preschooler who got to wear what she wanted to uniforms.  And am I picking up that this is a kid in all day kindergarten on top of it?  Did she had preschool experience or was she just dumped into full days of school four to five days a week.  I don’t object to all day kindergarten but for crying out loud, cut the kid some slack.  
 

Ruby clearly doesn’t know what to do with a non compliant child.  I think she was killed into a false sense of parenting because Shari is a mostly obedient straight A student.  And she’s trying to get everyone else to act the same way.  
 

Amd with each video I see my mind goes back to “and you want to be a life coach.”

[JermajestyDuggar]

10 minutes ago, clueliss said:

@Pleiades_06 I noticed the other girls tried to explain why Eve wore it that way.  And I think there is an older video that Ruby has tagged (haven’t watched) that Eve doesn’t like uniforms.  She’s in kindergarten.  She went from a free spirited preschooler who got to wear what she wanted to uniforms.  And am I picking up that this is a kid in all day kindergarten on top of it?  Did she had preschool experience or was she just dumped into full days of school four to five days a week.  I don’t object to all day kindergarten but for crying out loud, cut the kid some slack.  
 

Ruby clearly doesn’t know what to do with a non compliant child.  I think she was killed into a false sense of parenting because Shari is a mostly obedient straight A student.  And she’s trying to get everyone else to act the same way.  
 

Amd with each video I see my mind goes back to “and you want to be a life coach.”

Kindergarten was a big transition for some kids in my older child’s class. Luckily the teachers at his school saw it that way and cut a lot of kids some slack. My son had a pretty good transition because he had done all day preschool the year before. A lot of kindergarten is just getting the kids adjusted and used to a full day and schedule. My younger son is going into K this year and I am slightly worried. He only did morning preschool. He’s going to have a hard time with a full day of school. Especially after being at home for 6 months straight due to the pandemic.