8 Passengers: Youtuber's Take Son's Bed and Refuse to Give Daughter Lunch

[clueliss]

YouTube vlogger Slo4n had an interesting video up that had information bout the camp from someone who had been there.  But he’s one who got the cease and desist from Ruby and it’s been pulled.  He had heard of it before this because apparently he was raised Mormon.  Paraphrasing here but it sounded like the guides on the trail with them are NOT mental health trained.  Just for wilderness support.  

[FluffySnowball]

1 hour ago, Pleiades_06 said:

I was just reading more into “wilderness programs” and Anasazi. On the surface, they look fine-it can be a great experience to go and live in the wilderness. But then I read this: 

  Hide contents

The 49-day program aids families of youth with mild-to-moderate mood disorders, behavioral problems, attachment disorders and/or adjustment difficulties. These would include depression, anxiety; bipolar disorder; oppositional behaviors; substance abuse; relational problems with family, school, law enforcement and/or peers; self-harming behaviors (eating problems, cutting, etc.); poor social skills; lack of motivation; entitlement orientations and other similar problems related to a lack of self-regulation and moral identity

Source: https://www.anasazi.org/about-anasazi-foundation.html/

Um, no. We have some of those disorders in my family and I find it hard to believe this program would treat them. How would living in the desert help an ED or BPD?? The last phrase, “moral identity ,” is also a red flag. I think it’s code for religious induction.

That’s a gigantic red flag and leads me to believe that the entire program is highly toxic and definitely harmful. I cannot understand how such “treatments” are even legal.
You cannot pretend to essentially practice medicine when in fact, you are a religiously fanatic know-it-all lacking any real medical expertise and - even worse IMO - the honest intention to respect people’s mental health struggles and to try and support them with getting better. This is cultish and seems a little like the Mormon equivalent of how Alert was used on some of the Duggar boys. 
 

I have a question regarding the cease and desist letters the Frankes send out. Which implications do these letters have? Can they be fought (I’d guess so), do they immediately mean you receive a fine? What happens if you don’t agree to stay silent? I mean, these family vloggers cannot just show their lives on a public forum for everyone to see and then go against people’s right to exercise free speech as long as its critical but not actual hate speech. 

[clueliss]

This is KJs vlog on Slo4n getting the letter (that she later got)

Spoiler

 

 

And her tweet about the letter she received 

Quote

 

 

[Pleiades_06]

And how the hell are conditions like anxiety, depression, BPD, etc. mentioned in the same section as  moral identity?? One of these things is not like the other...

Edited June 19, 2020 by Pleiades_06

[Ozlsn]

7 minutes ago, Pleiades_06 said:

And how the hell are conditions like anxiety, depression, BPD, etc. mentioned in the same section as  moral identity?? One of these things is not like the other...

I'm pretty sure "moral identity" is code for "My child is/might be gay, or at the very least is not completely identifying as straight." In which case I could see where the anxiety and depression are coming from in the child. As to BPD - I don't think I would trust this mob to require an accurate diagnosis, and I certainly wouldn't trust the parents or anyone associated with this camp to diagnose anything.

[Pleiades_06]

3 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

I'm pretty sure "moral identity" is code for "My child is/might be gay, or at the very least is not completely identifying as straight." In which case I could see where the anxiety and depression are coming from in the child.

I never even thought about that. If it’s conversion therapy that  is beyond evil. It’s been outlawed in many US states (including Utah )but not Arizona, so it’s possible that’s what they mean.

[Pleiades_06]

It’s weird/interesting what this woman disciplines her kids for. In the “Chad’s Bedroom Reveal”  , she’s chastising his little brother for whining about wanting lights like Chad’s. It starts at 10:26.

Spoiler

 

I guess what bothers me is it’s like she’s trying to control his feelings? It’s hard to tell why she’s talking to him because his comments and reactions are edited out. But it feels like a character lesson, and it feels misplaced. “Whining about it means you feel entitled to it”, says Ruby. No, whining is an immature way of expressing oneself. I hate it too but what she’s doing is not helpful. Why lecture him on not feeling happy for his brother? Why not say “Save your money and you can get some too?”

I think Chad’s comments to Russell are actually more helpful than Ruby’s are. He acknowledges Russell‘s feelings and then says Ruby sounds “weird” for saying to Russell he needs to feel happy for Chad. He tries to mitigate Russell’s jealousy by saying he got the idea from friends and he doesn’t need to feel jealous of that. Then he says he understands Russell’s feelings and Ruby’s feelings. Seriously, I think he shows more emotional maturity than Ruby, who seems butthurt that her kid doesn’t like what she picked out for him.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Pleiades_06

[Gobsmacked]

Ruby really is a a terrible obnoxious person. She is over bearing, joyless, a kill joy, self centred, a know-all, loves the sound of her own voice, miserable cow, would hate having her as a next door neighbour, person who dislikes all persons who are not her type of person. 

Rant over. 

Ps Ruby, those kids are going to detest you when they are older and realise what you have done and said to them on camera  for all the world to see. You don't even look at them when chastising them. You look into the camera. You absolutely love yourself and only yourself. 

Rant really over now. 

[clueliss]

https://www.insider.com/8-passengers-youtube-drama-what-happened-franke-family-2020-6

The Franke family speaks about all of this

[CyborgKin]

On 6/20/2020 at 4:37 AM, Pleiades_06 said:

I was just reading more into “wilderness programs” and Anasazi. On the surface, they look fine-it can be a great experience to go and live in the wilderness. But then I read this: 

  Hide contents

The 49-day program aids families of youth with mild-to-moderate mood disorders, behavioral problems, attachment disorders and/or adjustment difficulties. These would include depression, anxiety; bipolar disorder; oppositional behaviors; substance abuse; relational problems with family, school, law enforcement and/or peers; self-harming behaviors (eating problems, cutting, etc.); poor social skills; lack of motivation; entitlement orientations and other similar problems related to a lack of self-regulation and moral identity

Source: https://www.anasazi.org/about-anasazi-foundation.html/

Um, no. We have some of those disorders in my family and I find it hard to believe this program would treat them. How would living in the desert help an ED or BPD?? The last phrase, “moral identity ,” is also a red flag. I think it’s code for religious induction.

Sounds to me like it's saying that mood and behavioural disorders are caused by the sufferer's lack of self control and by not being sufficiently devout.  i.e. victim blaming

[clueliss]

By the way, I came across another of the Chad stowed away with April & Davey Orgill's family on a trip to Lake Powell video - this one was them returning Chad to his family.  They praised him and how helpful he was.  The Orgills have been known to remove screens from their kids at times (because they fell that the kids focus too much on them and don't get outside and do things) but honestly - Chad fit right in with the crazy (good, fun crazy) that the Orgills seem to roll with.  I have to wonder if maybe Chad is just really high energy and Ruby doesn't necessarily know what to do with that.

[FluffySnowball]

32 minutes ago, clueliss said:

By the way, I came across another of the Chad stowed away with April & Davey Orgill's family on a trip to Lake Powell video - this one was them returning Chad to his family.  They praised him and how helpful he was.  The Orgills have been known to remove screens from their kids at times (because they fell that the kids focus too much on them and don't get outside and do things) but honestly - Chad fit right in with the crazy (good, fun crazy) that the Orgills seem to roll with.  I have to wonder if maybe Chad is just really high energy and Ruby doesn't necessarily know what to do with that.

I agree, I don’t think Chad is the real problem. His parents, on the other hand, are. My impression is that the majority of the abuse is driven by Ruby, with her husband being an enabler and supporter. But I might be wrong about that. 

[Glasgowghirl]

Seems like they are backtracking, Kevin said they took his bed from him because that is what the bootcamp done in a video now they are saying he chose the bean bag. Same with Eve's lunch she didn't make out she felt bad for her forgetting, she flat out said she hoped no one gave her food at school and no mention about not having time to drive to school to give her the lunch. Like the Stauffer's their attempts to justify their actions don't work. 

[can'tstopwatching]

Oh wow I did not know there was a topic about them here, this is my least favorite family on the internet and I could make a million BEC comments about Ruby but I promise I will try not to! I was pleased that when she uploaded the video revealing Chad's bed situation people finally saw in large numbers what terrible parents they are - they have flown under the radar getting away with shit for way too long with what horrible things Ruby CHOOSES to show to the internet regularly. Who knows what things she does that she deems too controversial to even show.

Ruby has completely rid herself of any parental responsibility at all and brags about it publicly, the whole 'victim mom' thing is absolutely ridiculous. But she's perfectly happy to exploit them on camera for profit, of course it's profit that only she ever sees and the kids get nothing of, when they earned it for her. Kevin has never taken any parental responsibility to begin with and spends as much time away from his family as he can. He is a smug and arrogant POS. Neither of them should have ever had kids.

I'll go through and read the conversation so far more closely but, the fact that she waited days of baby Russell constantly crying before bringing him in to the hospital when he broke his femur because she dropped him off a couch is one of the most shocking and concerning things she's shared, and yet very indicative of her overall as a parent.

[llucie]

21 hours ago, clueliss said:

https://www.insider.com/8-passengers-youtube-drama-what-happened-franke-family-2020-6

The Franke family speaks about all of this

They basically blame everything on Chad. Not surprising. This family is the most clear example of making one of the kids the black sheep i have ever seen, and i have been following JillRod for a while.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I wish these people would stop their channel after all this backlash but I know they won’t. I imagine they make a lot of money off of it. People will eventually forget and these jerks will learn how to hide their horrible parenting better. 

[Marmion]

6 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Seems like they are backtracking, Kevin said they took his bed from him because that is what the bootcamp done in a video now they are saying he chose the bean bag. Same with Eve's lunch she didn't make out she felt bad for her forgetting, she flat out said she hoped no one gave her food at school and no mention about not having time to drive to school to give her the lunch. Like the Stauffer's their attempts to justify their actions don't work. 

Sounds to me like gaslighting , in that case .  {  https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201701/11-warning-signs-gaslighting  ,  https://kitkennedy.com/2018/09/12/what-is-gaslighting/ } 

[Pammy]

On 6/25/2020 at 7:16 PM, clueliss said:

https://www.insider.com/8-passengers-youtube-drama-what-happened-franke-family-2020-6

The Franke family speaks about all of this

That article was so tone-deaf that it was almost funny. They really do think it's totally normal to (a) turn their son into a couch-surfer in his own home until he achieved a standard of behavour that was so challenging that it took him over half a year to accomplish it, and (b) openly express the hope that a tiny new first grader should not have her hunger relieved for an entire school day, plus 90 minutes of travel time: so that she will take her morning routine more seriously.

They really thought if they just explained the "context" that they were being openly cruel in order to modify their children's behaviour through "perfectly normal" consequences like hunger and having nowhere to sleep -- well, that's clearly not abusive, right? Because kids need to learn to handle their own meals at 6, and never bug their brothers ever-at-all as a teenager *somehow* right? How else were they supposed to get the results they wanted?

Well, in a way that's true that by some assessment criteria these things are 'not abusive'. As in: it's not the kind of criminal abuse that gets your kids removed from you or criminal charges laid. (Honestly, that takes pretty much clear and ongoing danger, a risk of life and limb.) It doesn't mean that it's not obviously weaponized psychological damage being intentionally inflicted on helpless youngsters by the parents they are forced to depend on.

And he may well have "chosen the bean bag" if the other choices were to flawlessly, daily, inflate/deflate a mattress, or pull out and reassemble a hide-a-bed, handling (and hiding) his bedding and leaving no evidence that he was doing any such thing. At least a bean bag he could just lay down on, and get up in the morning without the hassle. 

[DarkAnts]

They did not address making Chad pay to get his homework back. They are trying to set him up for failure in school. Poor Chad had to check his temper while his parents were holding his homework hostage. You know they wanted him to get upset and give them another reason to punish him, 

[clueliss]

@DarkAnts I saw that video and she arbitrarily imposed a new rule without warning on the kids.  

[can'tstopwatching]

2 hours ago, clueliss said:

@DarkAnts I saw that video and she arbitrarily imposed a new rule without warning on the kids.  

That video was terrible, it really showcased how much satisfaction Ruby gets out of upsetting her children. It was like she was on a manic high while in the van saying how cute Eve's art was and then shoving it into the trash bag. And making Chad pay to get his homework back was insane, Kevin changed it to that they could do chores to get their stuff back, but that's not much better either. Her justification was that the kids know they are supposed to bring their stuff inside from the van and they didn't. But they did not know about this new spontaneous "rule" that mom would trash their belongings if they didn't bring them in. That is hardly effective parenting at all, it does not encourage better future behavior from the kids, only to fear the volatility of their mother. That is merely a parent abusing their power over their kids for their own sadistic pleasure (and YouTube content of course).

[Ozlsn]

2 hours ago, can'tstopwatching said:

Her justification was that the kids know they are supposed to bring their stuff inside from the van and they didn't. But they did not know about this new spontaneous "rule" that mom would trash their belongings if they didn't bring them in.

Surely a natural consequence of leaving your stuff in the van is that you have to go and get it from the van? Trashing it just seems way over the top to me.

 

22 hours ago, can'tstopwatching said:

she waited days of baby Russell constantly crying before bringing him in to the hospital when he broke his femur because she dropped him off a couch 

That one I hadn't heard about. I can understand not realising initially that something serious is wrong, but if the child is still crying hours later? That's a pretty clear indication that something is actually wrong. I'm kind of surprised that that one didn't trigger a report from the hospital to be honest.

[can'tstopwatching]

13 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

Surely a natural consequence of leaving your stuff in the van is that you have to go and get it from the van? Trashing it just seems way over the top to me.

 

That one I hadn't heard about. I can understand not realising initially that something serious is wrong, but if the child is still crying hours later? That's a pretty clear indication that something is actually wrong. I'm kind of surprised that that one didn't trigger a report from the hospital to be honest.

It's one of the biggest issues that I haven't seen many people talking about, although I don't really watch many of the drama videos beyond just to see what people have picked up on.

In "Back to School PREP" at 12:24 Ruby says that Russell did not sit up or crawl until 18 months, and walked around 21 months. She says one of the reasons may have been because she dropped him off the couch when he wasn't even 6 months old. "After he didn't stop crying for a couple days" she took him to the hospital where they told her he broke his femur and it was already starting to heal. It is harder for babies to break bones than adults because they aren't as firm yet. The story is pretty fishy, especially why she wouldn't take him in for help sooner than after a couple days of constant crying.

What's rich is that in the video where she admits she 'neglected' Julie, she says it was because she was so focused on new baby Russell. Focused on dropping him off the couch, apparently.

[Marmion]

19 hours ago, Pammy said:

Well, in a way that's true that by some assessment criteria these things are 'not abusive'. As in: it's not the kind of criminal abuse that gets your kids removed from you or criminal charges laid. (Honestly, that takes pretty much clear and ongoing danger, a risk of life and limb.) It doesn't mean that it's not obviously weaponized psychological damage being intentionally inflicted on helpless youngsters by the parents they are forced to depend on.

And he may well have "chosen the bean bag" if the other choices were to flawlessly, daily, inflate/deflate a mattress, or pull out and reassemble a hide-a-bed, handling (and hiding) his bedding and leaving no evidence that he was doing any such thing. At least a bean bag he could just lay down on, and get up in the morning without the hassle

This sounds as if it might be what Dr. Janja Lalich has referred to as " bounded choice " .   

Spoiler

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20060920231308/http://www.csuchico.edu/pub/cs/fall_04 /feature_04.html  

[Gobsmacked]

On 26 June 2020 at 11:20 PM, llucie said:

They basically blame everything on Chad. Not surprising. This family is the most clear example of making one of the kids the black sheep i have ever seen, and i have been following JillRod for a while.

She is always going on at Evie. That poor girl never looks happy. Chad seems to have a good bond with Evie. It's possible he has realised that they are the two kids that Ruby dislikes for some reason. I suspect that once he hits 18 Chad will be out of there. I hope he can rescue Evie ASAP after that.