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fundiefollower

Andrea Mills of YouTube infamy Had Cancer and Died

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Tired
unsafetydancer

The views on things like 9/11 definitely not harmless but I still think they deserve sympathy over the loss of Andrea and the uncertainty they now face. I've noticed that a lot of people with religious beliefs on the extreme side of things tend to double down on those beliefs when tragedy hits. It isn't always helpful and I hope that they are receiving support from a bereavement counsellor or other qualified person who can help them navigate their feelings in a healthy way.

Whatever horrible things they have said or done in the past, whether they were done out of malice or just some misguided beliefs, they deserve compassion over what has happened. They're human beings.

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formergothardite
Just now, unsafetydancer said:

The views on things like 9/11 definitely not harmless but I still think they deserve sympathy over the loss of Andrea and the uncertainty they now face.

I don't think anyone is saying they don't deserve sympathy. We just shouldn't make Andrea into someone she wasn't.  There is no sense in turning her into some sort of a kind, harmless soul when that wasn't who she was. 

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Koala
1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

The last thing this family needs right now is donations of "clothes, canned goods and toiletries."  If any of them had watched Andrea's channel they would know that there is literally nowhere to store those things in that tiny hoarded up house.  And I am not being mean.  It is tiny.  And it is hoarded up up to the rafters with stuff and children, albeit in an "organised" way. 

Yeah, that's just crazy talk.  They lost their mom, not their house.  They already had clothes, and this hasn't changed that.  I'm sure whoever asked means well, but it's going to create an unnecessary burden for the family.

The sad thing that I was thinking about, is that for a long time they will probably be eating things that Andrea made and froze, and using items (laundry pods and the like) that she made with her own hands. When they get to the bottom of that supply, it's probably going to be crushing.  Or an odd mix- crushing to have it, and crushing to run out of it.  

It's not like she was sick for a long time, and had relinquished control of the home- she was keeping house as recently as last week, from the sounds of things.  She is still everywhere they turn, and that has to be something else... I can't imagine.

I have no shortage of sympathy for those children.  Not many things sadder, than a group of little ones losing a parent.  I'm glad Tom's planning to spend some time off work to be with them and figure things out.  It's hard to think of a workable solution for many of the problems they now face.

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Meh
Dandruff
6 hours ago, formergothardite said:

This is  a woman who made a video bashing the Sandy Hook parents as being liars.

There may be a metaphor here...she spewed poisonous bile then died of it.

I have no tolerance for attacks on the Sandy Hook parents.  I do have some sympathy for her having to leave the family she loved without warning...but I have a lot more sympathy for the kids.

Tom may have been getting pressure from multiple directions to take the money and donations while they're available.  It sounded that way to me in earlier videos.

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Palimpsest
38 minutes ago, unsafetydancer said:

Whatever horrible things they have said or done in the past, whether they were done out of malice or just some misguided beliefs, they deserve compassion over what has happened. They're human beings.

Well, other than the people Tom claims sent him horrible emails and death threats over showing his wife's dead body, who is not showing compassion?  I think the reaction here on FJ has been overwhelmingly compassionate towards the family.  

Discussing their extreme Fundamentalist beliefs and unconventional way of life and showing compassion are not mutually exclusive. 

And discussing extreme Fundamentalist beliefs and how destructive they can be is what we do on Free Jinger.  For example, I'm afraid think there is a snowball's chance in hell that those poor children will receive proper grief counseling from a qualified professional.  It is far more likely that Tom will tell them it was all God's will that their mother died.  She's safe in Heaven with Jesus now.  So suck it up and forget about any dreams of college or striking out on your own.  Knuckle down and keep smiling because you have to raise your younger siblings while Daddy makes youtube videos to continue her legacy.  I hope this doesn't happen, but there it is.  This family, because of their beliefs, is hostile to secular interventions.  And this family, because of their beliefs, may indeed double down on those beliefs after this trauma.

A lot of people here have talked about how important it is not to judge the way people grieve.  Sometimes the survivor's outward behavior does not indicate their true feelings or reflect the depths of their loss.  Sometimes people are in shock, or try to dissociate from the immediate pain with focus on trivial things, or keep a stiff upper lip only to collapse and process the loss 6 months or years later, and so on.

But the important thing is to let people grieve in their own way.  Telling someone not to grieve is destructive.

53 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I don't think anyone is saying they don't deserve sympathy. We just shouldn't make Andrea into someone she wasn't.  There is no sense in turning her into some sort of a kind, harmless soul when that wasn't who she was. 

I'm going to go a step further with this.  Not specific to the Mills family, but grief and loss are complex.  And they bring up very complex emotions. 

Whitewashing and making someone into what they were not is also destructive.  People are complex and not everyone is nice.  Some people are actually as mean as snakes for whatever reason. 

No-one should be glorified or their lives edited to just the good bits after they have died, because that denies reality for the survivors.

If a "difficult" person, or an abusive spouse or parent dies, then it doesn't help the survivors to tell them how wonderful the deceased was and fail to acknowledge or deny the negative parts.  The survivors may feel ambivalence as well as loss.  They may feel loss of the dream of a happy functional family.  They may feel relief that they never have to deal with that person again.  They may be cringing to hear others praise the departed.

When it comes to helping grieving people you take them "where they are." And that means allowing them to process many different emotions, some of them negative and not "socially acceptable" without judgement.  But sometimes that isn't easy.

I went through the training to become a hospice volunteer and did volunteer for several years.   It isn't an easy volunteer position, but not because you see dying, death, and grief all the time.  You see all sorts of reactions to death and you try never to sit in judgement.  Not on the way people go through the process of dying.  And not on the reactions of the survivors.  But sometimes it isn't easy.

If anyone is interested, this is hard but also rewarding volunteer work.  I did a 5 day intensive training, but this may vary according to the program.  They also ease you into the job carefully.  You are more likely to be sitting with a hospice patient for a couple of hours while the primary caregiver takes a break than attending or witnessing a death.   I should get back to it but, as a volunteer, if you have a loss yourself you are asked to take a year off direct volunteering.  Whenever I gear up to go back it seems someone else in the family dies. :(

 

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Alisamer
8 hours ago, AliceInFundyland said:

I admit to not watching any of the videos.

The Bible blasting at all times and the tragedy denial seem fairly blatant in their message. Maybe they aren't door to door proselytizing, but if they are in a community - their church? Believes this nonsense and they are just like everyone else.

Leading to the nice people (likely nonviolent), same noxious beliefs pickle 🥒 that plagues so many of us when it comes to the fundies.

This thread is shifting in the wind.

Unpopular Opinion: I am glad she was absolved of trying to carry that baby. I am relieved for the sake of the family that it didn't appear to have an impact on her condition.

And I am sad that the kids don't have their mom. She does sound like she had good qualities. I can't hate them possibly breaking this cycle and going to school. I am judging and the kids need to go to school.

I agree totally with this whole post. I was so relieved when I read she had miscarried, because if this had been a treatable cancer, I'm positive she would have refused treatment for the baby's sake, no matter that it meant they both died. I'm sure they were devastated by the miscarriage, but my relief was of the "oh good, now they can treat her aggressively if they need to!" variety. I'm sad for the kids, sympathetic for the family, and also hoping that the kids get get some real education and dad doesn't try to keep things just exactly as they were, homeschooling wise at least.

I really can't blame the dad for taking the money that's coming in - with that many kids, Scamaritan as health "insurance", a sudden funeral to plan, etc. Just the medical and travel costs will eat up most or all of the GFM money that's come in so far, I'd bet. Add in a funeral and his time off work, and they'll need the money.

I may come off as cold here, but I'd take it too. I'd probably also monetize that channel in half a second the very first chance I got - this is the sort of story likely to hit the news and draw in curiosity seekers, and I'd milk that for all it was worth if I had that many mouths to feed and that many huge expenses looming over my head. Does it look bad? Sure. It looks like "using" her death to earn money. But I know a lot of times the outpouring of support slows to a trickle quickly. Six months from now, the notoriety will have died down. Dad will be expected to have figured out how to live without all the everyday help they're going to get at first. And the bills will all be coming in - tons and tons of them. With real health insurance it can be a near full-time job dealing with a major emergency like this, and I can't imagine it's going to be tons better with Samaritan or whatever they have. 

As awful as their beliefs are, their kids are still kids. So I hope they end up with enough money to at least get by without adding a sudden financial hit to the chaos. I hope they can keep the kids fed and clothed in a way at least similar in level to what they are used to. I hope that their dad doesn't have to try and raise them all while also dealing with impending bankruptcy or something like that. Extreme stress doesn't make for good parenting, and he's going to be struggling enough alone. 

Hopefully he'll use what money comes in wisely, pay off the bills, put the kids in school, and use some of it for good counseling because they're all going to need it!

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Meh
Dandruff

Where is the recent video where Tom is discussing the Go Fund Me?  The last one I can find on YouTube is at the hospice after she passed away.

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formergothardite
30 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

really can't blame the dad for taking the money that's coming in - with that many kids, Scamaritan as health "insurance", a sudden funeral to plan, etc.

I hope that Scamaritan doesn't just take most of the money and leave them hanging because they were counting on GFM to pay bills. . In the fine print of Scamaritan it says that if Go fund me is used then they deduct how much they will cover. Hopefully they can say that the GFM wasn't for medical bills and they will then not deny coverage, but who knows. That is such a shitty "insurance" company. 

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louannems
Posted (edited)

Before her death, during an update, Tom said Andrea did have life insurance. Who knows how much, but life insurance is rather cheap for a young, healthy female. Also, Tom said an uncle Randy was paying for the return flight home.

Between Scamitarian, life insurance, uncle Randy, and Go fund me, the medical, transportation and funeral cost should be paid with something left while Tom takes time off work.

At least, money wise, Andrea did not have an expensive, long drawn out, cancer treatment plan.

Also, Andrea strikes me as someone who would choose a simple, low cost cremation, instead of an expensive funeral.  Direct cremation can be very inexpensive.  My husband and I already have ours paid for!

Edited by louannems

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Tired
unsafetydancer

@Palimpsest I now wonder if you volunteered where I work or somewhere very like it. 

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Tim-Tom Biblethumper
14 hours ago, unsafetydancer said:

The place where I work is bringing in some new people as volunteers, most of them are retired nurses or clergy, to sit with people near the end if they don't have family or if their family needs to step out for a bit. I think it's a lovely idea.

That is a wonderful idea!  I lost my mother in May, and although I was able to care for her at home until the last week (I had to have surgery of my own), no one offered to sit with her those last 24 hours for me to even grab something to eat and I was afraid to leave her.  I am/was her only family. 
Now I'm being selfish and thinking of what happens to me when that time comes (no family left).  You've eased my mind a little.  Thank you.    

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Cleopatra7
51 minutes ago, louannems said:

Also, Andrea strikes me as someone who would choose a simple, low cost cremation, instead of an expensive funeral.  Direct cremation can be very inexpensive.  My husband and I already have ours paid for!

Does whatever branch of Protestant fundamentalism that the Millses belong to believe in cremation? Catholic traditionalists remain deadset against it as a “pagan” and anti-Catholic practice, but I’m not sure about fundamentalist Protestants. 

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Briefly
46 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Does whatever branch of Protestant fundamentalism that the Millses belong to believe in cremation? Catholic traditionalists remain deadset against it as a “pagan” and anti-Catholic practice, but I’m not sure about fundamentalist Protestants. 

I am United Methodist. We don't really have anything about it, it's mostly left up to the individual/family.  Personally, I want to be cremated and my ashes spread somewhere in my beloved Texas.  Possibly at the beach somewhere.

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Palimpsest
2 hours ago, unsafetydancer said:

@Palimpsest I now wonder if you volunteered where I work or somewhere very like it. 

Probably somewhere very like it.  IIRC you are in the UK,  The hospice programs I have encountered (as a family member consumer and as a volunteer) were similar to the UK model.  And they are wonderful.

 

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mollysmom

I was raised Independent Fundamental Baptist (ugh) and they are very much against cremation. They have verses from the Bible to back up their opinion but it was such bullshit to me that I can't remember what it was.

I bolded "opinion" because the older I get the more I realize that is literally what they forced down our throats. Their OPINIONS. Disguised as God's law. 

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EmainMacha
Posted (edited)

@unsafetydancerNow I'm wondering if you work where I used to work.

Doesn't Scamaritan also make you look at every opportunity to get your hospital bill reduced by essentially bargaining with the hospital? Are these things still expected of a grieving family? 

Edited by EmainMacha
Forgot tag

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Quiver Full of Kittens
1 hour ago, Briefly said:

I am United Methodist. We don't really have anything about it, it's mostly left up to the individual/family.  Personally, I want to be cremated and my ashes spread somewhere in my beloved Texas.  Possibly at the beach somewhere.

I don’t think my church body has any official position. I’m leaning towards donating my body to a medical school. My best friend is a pathologist and when she was at Johns Hopkins often spoke of her cadaver. It just seemed like a really interesting process for her and really enhanced her learning. At the end, everyone was cremated and given back to the families. 

 

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ViolaSebastian
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, EmainMacha said:

@unsafetydancerNow I'm wondering if you work where I used to work.

Doesn't Scamaritan also make you look at every opportunity to get your hospital bill reduced by essentially bargaining with the hospital? Are these things still expected of a grieving family? 

I know that they ask it of the parents of premature babies. It wouldn't shock me in the least if they expect grieving people to haggle, too. 

Edited by ViolaSebastian

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Seahorse Wrangler
On 8/20/2019 at 7:39 PM, SweetLaurel said:

 

And honestly - when my husband died, even more unexpectedly than this, I was a hot mess for days. Weeks. I have been told how 'cold' I was the night he passed - I kept thinking, I have to be strong for the kids, the kids, think of the kids - and his parents.  

This..so much this. My BIl and his wife were weeping and wailing, I was supporting our children, making sure we had hot meals, calling family and friends. Sorting out the cremation details,dealing with his work-mates,

 

It took me four months before I grieved properly because I had so much to do to support other people.

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ViolaSebastian
Posted (edited)

I'm also going to venture to say that Tom is living a lifestyle and in a geographic place that has a culture that discourages men from expressing their emotions. I think we have to keep traditional masculine expectations in mind when we make observations about his behavior.

17 minutes ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

It took me four months before I grieved properly because I had so much to do to support other people.

I have a good friend who lost her husband a year ago. It was an unexpected death and people were devastated--to the point where she, as his wife, had to comfort and take care of other people. It was a really strange dynamic I hadn't experienced before. 

Edited by ViolaSebastian

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SilverBeach
16 hours ago, formergothardite said:

This is  a woman who made a video bashing the Sandy Hook parents as being liars.

WTF. I knew nothing of this woman before this thread, and I'm glad I didn't. 

8 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

It was an unexpected death and people were devastated--to the point where she, as his wife, had to comfort and take care of other people.

Some of my mother's caregivers really loved her and were devastated when she died. I found myself comforting them. It was oddly reassuring to me to do this, because it confirmed what a beautiful person she was. 

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Cleopatra7

To me, the Millses situation illustrates how these fundie advocates of hyper fecundity don’t take into account the possibility that one parent might die and leave the other behind as a single parent, especially when there is this insistence that the quiver be homeschooled and isolated. Since a lot of the parents in these families seem to be estranged from extended family who disapprove of their choices/theology, the most obvious support system that could help is severed.

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apandaaries
Posted (edited)

On one video, Tom mentioned how disconnected our culture is from death, and how because of this, people wind up needing therapy after a loss. I really hope he’s not thinking that because the children were there at the end and after (while he filmed), they won’t require therapy. But I am suspicious.

As with the Duggars, I wonder about how such large brood truly feels about all the videotaping and publicizing of their lives. That they ALL enjoy it all the time (especially just after their mother passed) seems highly unlikely. I know we all grieve differently, and these people absolutely made choices for that I never would (no one will see me start a YouTube channel anytime soon!).  Their “normal” is not at all like mine.

But I still really hope he puts the camera down for awhile and concentrates on the kids. 

Edited by apandaaries

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Tired
unsafetydancer
3 hours ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

It took me four months before I grieved properly because I had so much to do to support other people.

This is sort of like what happened to me when my dad died. Everyone else was really messed up and I ended up sorting things like having his company car removed from our driveway and letting various companies know he had died so we didn't get mail. I even figured out how to memorialise his facebook so that we didn't get birthday alerts for him. 

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