Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein

[tabitha2]

All this fuss and pearl clutching and bitching for nothing. 
 

On the next manufactured horror!1 

 

[Jackie3]

4 hours ago, formergothardite said:

The man is Trump level gross. If the royal family is smart they will stick him in at one of their obscure properties and do everything they can to keep him from being seen in public. 

The poor woman was grieving and looking for comfort, and she has to deal with being groped by her dad. She didn't seem surprised, either, or pull away. I hope she isn't used to it. 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Jackie3

[HerNameIsBuffy]

On 9/12/2022 at 7:03 PM, Jackie3 said:

The hecklers were arrested, like they would be in a dictatorship.  Doesn't Britain have a right to free speech? A heckler like that would be allowed to continue in the US

One was arrested after calling Andrew a "sick old man." Another was arrested for carrying a sign that said, "Not my King."

One of the great thins about the US is the ability to speak even if your speech is offensive to some.

Of course, there are limits (no shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre) but that isn't applicable here.

Andrew will be allowed to wear his military uniform, even though he was stripped of his military honors. (Harry will not be allowed).  Rape is apparently a forgiveable sin.

This is so tone-deaf that I think it will turn public opinion against the Palace. I think the monarchy is trying to end itself!

Charles will probably wear a uniform even though he never stepped foot on a battlefield, with a chest full of meaningless metals. 

I don't think they are trying to end themselves, but I hope their approach to this opens the eyes of some who think this is a harmless institution.

The young man who got arrested for calling Andrew a sick old man was beaten by two men prior to arrest.  For shouting the truth.

Sure it would be terrible to do to a private family, even if deserved, but they have vast wealth for being public figures and you can't have it both ways.  Seems like they want to rule over the people who worship them and believe they are some kind of chosen ones, while silencing those who find the divine right to rule an insult.  And many people do find the entire concept an insult to equality.

I've been reading a lot about this and there are many people in Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales who do feel the entire institution is oppressive and should be abolished and in Scotland some of those saying so online are being tracked and questioned by law enforcement.

I know it's an unpopular opinion in this forum, but I fail to see how their construct is much different than the patriarchs skewered here.

I'm not going to go on about this here, I truly like so many of you and this difference of opinion doesn't change that but it leaves me absolutely bewildered that anyone can support that institution.

Their NHS is in financial trouble.  They have a serious economic crisis which led Scotland to start working on plans to set up warming banks for people who will not be able to afford to heat their homes this winter.   It's projected that by the end of winter another 1.6 million people will join the ranks of the millions now under the poverty line.

Out of "respect to the queen"  they are cancelling medical appointments, funerals, shutting FOOD BANKS, on the day of her funeral.

People in poverty will not be able to access food banks, because it's more important to show respect to an elderly multi billionaire.  

There are people in the UK truly, desperately hurting and it's going to get worse but spending billions on her funeral and his coronation and changing the money and such is a better use of money than helping combat hunger and lack of access to timely health care?  Not insulting Andrew is more important than the $12 mil she gave him to pay off his victim?  

If someone could explain to me why that's not evil I am open to a civil discussion about it.  I'm happy to have it in PM or a new thread as I don't want to disrupt these threads.

Fwiw I'm not a troll, nothing here I haven't said in these threads many times before and I'm not going to belabor it here because even if I don't understand it I do respect that some of you are hurting and I don't want to detract from that.

[treehugger]

@HerNameIsBuffy oh I know you are not a troll, and I think most of us would love to have a reasonable discussion about the monarchy and it’s many, many issues, but having a discussion with a certain person is like trying to discuss politics with my trumpian uncle, who hates everyone but the sainted one, is disingenuous, and moves goalposts faster than the speed of light. Also, I will happily discuss issues with systems, but I will remember that there are people underneath those crowns, and I refuse to stoop to the low levels of our troll when it comes to being a complete jerk.

I appreciate the points you brought up though. 

Edited September 16, 2022 by treehugger

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Out of "respect to the queen"  they are cancelling medical appointments, funerals, shutting FOOD BANKS, on the day of her funeral.

People in poverty will not be able to access food banks, because it's more important to show respect to an elderly multi billionaire.  

I agree. There are other elderly people who can't get the medical care they need, because they are "showing respect" to a single, highly privileged, woman.  For all we know, some of these elderly may die as a result of these closures. 

What medical appointments are cancelled on Elizabeth's funeral? Are there people in chronic pain, seeking help? Or a refill of their meds? Children who need eye surgery? Cancer patients? They all have to wait a day, and hope for the best?

Food banks are closed, so children will go hungry? That's considered OK? I can't imagine Elizabeth would've wanted people to go hungry on the day of her funeral.

In fact, I suspect she'd be uncomfortable with the giant piles of flowers--all that money could've been better spent on the pensioners in Britain, who live on so little. I'm surprised Elizabeth didn't make such a suggestion before she died.

I think the royal family survives because of the pomp and showiness of their weddings and their funerals. Elizabeth --in her death-- is being used to promote the royal brand. Would she have wanted food banks to be shut? Would she have wanted people to be silenced with their freedom of speech violated?

Elizabeth was not the only elderly woman in Britain. Some of them are in horrible nursing homes right now, sitting in their own waste. Instead of worshiping one wealthy, privileged woman, why not take better care of the elderly, the poor and the sick who are alive? 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

Yelling at Andrew in a huge crowd of monarchy supporters was probably a bad plan in general. And very unfortunate to heckle during any funeral procession. 

I have been wondering who pays for these 24/7 guards and all the security etc etc. Bad economic times. 

I was also wondering if monarchy was abolished....there would probably be many years of tourism $ related to the "former royal Xyz" points of interest. So would it really lose tourism $?

[Jackie3]

3 hours ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

I was also wondering if monarchy was abolished....there would probably be many years of tourism $ related to the "former royal Xyz" points of interest. So would it really lose tourism $?

People don't expect to see Charles if they travel to England.  They go for other reasons. There are MANY travel to England, like the gorgeous scenery, Shakespeare's home, Oxford, Cambridge, the Lakes, Cornwall, Yorkshire, theatre, museums, London, etc. 

3 hours ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

Yelling at Andrew in a huge crowd of monarchy supporters was probably a bad plan in general. And very unfortunate to heckle during any funeral procession. 

 

Maybe so. But in a democracy, it should be his right to have a dissenting opinion.

[KnittingOwl]

6 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I've been reading a lot about this and there are many people in Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales who do feel the entire institution is oppressive and should be abolished and in Scotland some of those saying so online are being tracked and questioned by law enforcement.

I have a friend in Scotland - who voted for independence in 2014 - who is irate over the arrests over the arrests and tracking that’s happening right now. It’s pushing more of the Scottish people to demand another independence referendum. I think Northern Ireland is having its own set of problems with Brexit and it’s relation to Ireland. I think there are some precarious positions that don’t necessarily have to do with the monarchy, but the monarchy isn’t really helping right now

[Jackie3]

16 hours ago, KnittingOwl said:

I think there are some precarious positions that don’t necessarily have to do with the monarchy, but the monarchy isn’t really helping right now

I think the monarchy is abolishing itself by denying people their freedom of speech.

[Anna Bolinas]

On 9/16/2022 at 12:20 AM, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

I was also wondering if monarchy was abolished....there would probably be many years of tourism $ related to the "former royal Xyz" points of interest. So would it really lose tourism $?

France, Austria, and Russia have all abolished their monarchies while still making bank on tourists who come to see the former palaces.

[Mrs Ms]

7 hours ago, Anna Bolinas said:

France, Austria, and Russia have all abolished their monarchies while still making bank on tourists who come to see the former palaces.

Neuschwanstein in Germany is so popular they based Disney castles on it. People flock from all over the world to visit it. Wasn’t even of a ruling king. 

[prayawaythefundie]

On 9/19/2022 at 11:44 AM, Mrs Ms said:

Neuschwanstein in Germany is so popular they based Disney castles on it. People flock from all over the world to visit it. Wasn’t even of a ruling king. 

True but we have to send Frank-Walter Steinmeier to represent us abroad. Have you noticed him at yesterday’s funeral? No? That‘s exactly the point. He’s elected but not charming at all.
I’m sure everyone recognized the king and queen of Spain though. You know their faces, they sell.
 

People are much less impressed by some old man elected for a few years than they would be by a royal couple with cute kids they can see grow up. It‘s all PR but it works. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by prayawaythefundie

[SoSoNosy]

I didn't see the King and Queen of the Netherlands, but I'm sure they were there.  This is one of those times I miss Sartorial Splendor the most; we would have seen pictures of all the royalty in up close detail.  Willem-Alexander adored Elizabeth.

 

[tabitha2]

Yes they went and his mother Princess Beatrix. Virtually All the reigning monarchs were there. Embarrassingly a mix up in the protocol office meant While the Crown Prince and Queen of Denmark were were invited the Crown Princess was not and She stayed home

Edited September 20, 2022 by tabitha2

[viii]

12 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Yes they went and his mother Princess Beatrix. Virtually All the reigning monarchs were there. Embarrassingly a mix up in the protocol office meant While the Crown Princess  and Queen of Denmark were were invited the Crown Princess was not and She stayed home

It's an unfortunate mistake but given the large magnitude of this funeral, if that was the only mistake then I think BRF did really well with organization. 

Also, thankfully we are no longer in the days where Denmark would be so offended they're declare war. 😂

[tabitha2]

It could have been cleared up with a simple phone call but maybe she wanted to stay home with kids. 

[hoipolloi]

45 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Embarrassingly a mix up in the protocol office meant While the Crown Prince and Queen of Denmark were were invited the Crown Princess was not and She stayed home

Oops. 

Then there's the bizarre situation with the Spanish royals. 

Quote

 

Spain's official delegation is led by King Felipe and his wife Queen Letizia. Felipe came to the throne when his father abdicated in 2014 amid a series of scandals.

But Juan Carlos, who was related to the late Queen Elizabeth, received a private invitation to attend, a British government source confirmed.

His attendance alongside Spain's official delegation has raised eyebrows since he now lives in exile in Abu Dhabi.

On Sunday, Juan Carlos, 84, and his estranged wife Queen Sofia were photographed at a reception in Buckingham Palace in London. The Spanish Royal Household said Sofia, who still lives in Spain, would travel to London with the king and queen...

 

 

[SoSoNosy]

People.com has some good pictures of various royalty.  And another news site says that Mary was mistakenly invited because Frederick was his mother's plus-one.

[tabitha2]

Juan Carlos is family like Most of those monarchs are her relatives and extended family goes go funerals as a rule  . It is what it is. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by tabitha2

[noseybutt]

5 hours ago, prayawaythefundie said:

True but we have to send Frank-Walter Steinmeier to represent us abroad. Have you noticed him at yesterday’s funeral? No? That‘s exactly the point. He’s elected but not charming at all.
I’m sure everyone recognized the king and queen of Spain though. You know their faces, they sell.
 

People are much less impressed by some old man elected for a few years than they would be by a royal couple with cute kids they can see grow up. It‘s all PR but it works. 

The concept of monarchy is offensive but this is also accurate. The BRF do PR and ceremonial splendor like few other institutions. 

[viii]

1 hour ago, noseybutt said:

The concept of monarchy is offensive but this is also accurate. The BRF do PR and ceremonial splendor like few other institutions. 

Which is why I hope Charles goes for fuuuuuuulllllllllll pageantry for his coronation. Reminds us why you're better than the rest of us peasants!!! 

[noseybutt]

30 minutes ago, viii said:

Which is why I hope Charles goes for fuuuuuuulllllllllll pageantry for his coronation. Reminds us why you're better than the rest of us peasants!!! 

I can't imagine the angst that is going to go into all the decisions. Full pageantry is not likely to play well across the Commonwealth. People liked the Queen as a person but the institution not at all.

ETA Or, this:

Edited September 20, 2022 by noseybutt

[viii]

Oh, a full coronation with all the pomp and circumstance would likely not go down well, considering the UK is in such a housing crisis. However, as a lover of history... my loyalties are torn. 

[noseybutt]

2 minutes ago, viii said:

Oh, a full coronation with all the pomp and circumstance would likely not go down well, considering the UK is in such a housing crisis. However, as a lover of history... my loyalties are torn. 

I think The Crown should take artistic license and we call it good.

[viii]

The Crown will end shortly. They said they'd never get to modern day but then they've also cast adult William and Kate soooooo maybe we could see Harry and Meghan's exit, plus Andrew's scandals and the queen's death.