Tudors: Your Favourite and Why

[Anna Bolinas]

Yeah, it's sad how Jane is so often portrayed as being this backstabbing bitch when there's no real evidence that she accused her husband or her sister-in-law of anything. From what I've read, Jane was not accused of having a role in the fall of Anne Boleyn until George Wyatt (grandson of Thomas Wyatt) wrote his partial biography of Anne Boleyn and claimed that Jane had made the incest accusation. I don't think he gives any source about it though. It helped that Jane had been executed herself, so writers could portray her story as a cautionary tale. But really, from the actual evidence we have, Jane did try to help her husband while he was in the Tower (iirc, I think Ives said she sent letters to Cromwell). The fact that Jane moved on after the execution of the Boleyns doesn't prove anything, because she had to do that if she wanted to survive. I don't know why exactly she got involved with the Catherine Howard/Thomas Culpeper intrigues, but neither she nor Catherine nor the men executed alongside them deserved to die.

The best fictional portrayals of her imo are in the book Tarnish by Katherine Longshore and the play Anne Boleyn by Howard Brenton. Tarnish is kind of trashy and not particularly historically accurate, but Jane is portrayed as a shy, kind of awkward, but close friend of Anne's. In Anne Boleyn, she's also super close to Anne, and the reason she "testifies" against Anne and George is because Cromwell threatens her. The version of her in Showtime's The Tudors is god-awful. I don't understand how they can have George rape her on their wedding night and yet still paint her as this evil villain for wanting him to die. 

[Seahorse Wrangler]

I liked The Raven's Widow for a sympathetic fictional Jane and Julia Fox's bio of her is good as well.  And the Anne Boleyn Files has several articles and videos on Jane.

 

I am currently in a Catherine Parr phase. Intelligent, highly educated and charismatic, she was well-prepared by her previous marriage to blend a family together. Her ultimate success was in her step-children. It's a shame she never managed to have a happy family f her own following Henry's death.

 

 

[Anna Bolinas]

If only she had married someone else besides Thomas Seymour. I know they had a little flirtation going on before Henry proposed to her, but he was just not a good person, especially in his conduct towards Elizabeth. 

[viii]

23 hours ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

I liked The Raven's Widow for a sympathetic fictional Jane and Julia Fox's bio of her is good as well.  And the Anne Boleyn Files has several articles and videos on Jane.

Thank you for the Jane Boleyn recommendation; I just bought it for my Kindle. I've been torn on how to portray Jane in my own novel, so I'm hoping this will give me a little more clarity. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

I am finding this conversation so interesting as I take baby steps into learning about this period.

Are any of you familiar with a YouTuber named Dr. Kat?  I've been enjoying her videos on these topics a lot, but I don't know enough to vet her information.  Was wondering if you anyone knows of her and if she's credible.  I hope so as I really like the way she presents the material and she seems very reasonable in her opinions.  

 

[clueliss]

I'm familiar with Dr. Kat but don't know her creds.  I also like Claire Ridgeway who has a YouTube Channel.  (This Day in Tudor History)

https://www.youtube.com/user/AnneBoleynFiles

I enjoy both of them

[ADoyle90815]

I enjoyed the Julia Fox biography of Lady Rochford, and will definitely get that novel about her. Usually, she's been depicted as a scheming bitch in most movies and shows about the Tudor period, so it's interesting to see her as being just as much of a victim as anyone else at the time.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 hours ago, clueliss said:

I'm familiar with Dr. Kat but don't know her creds.  I also like Claire Ridgeway who has a YouTube Channel.  (This Day in Tudor History)

https://www.youtube.com/user/AnneBoleynFiles

I enjoy both of them

She was the other one I was going to ask about as I enjoy her videos, too.

When I get interested in a new topic I like to sample some videos, forums, etc. to get an overview before getting into the more in depth and academic type of reading.

Oh, I made a Tudor reference irl today.  I was setting up some IT stuff in  the conference room and someone quibbled with the way we were doing it and I just said think of me like Henry VIII 's French executioner.   I am told what needs to happen, I show up with the necessary implements and get the job done.  My French co-worker laughed, but the other one just rolled her eyes  

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy

[HerNameIsBuffy]

I spent the weekend binging Dr. Kat and Claire Ridgway and loved every minute of it.   

I'm especially fascinated by the phantom pregnancies of Mary.  I don't doubt she thought she was pregnant initially, but I wonder if she felt that until the end or if there was panic when she realized she was ill instead and rode it out as long as she could to put off the inevitable humiliation when it became public knowledge.  

What struck me was when, I think it was Claire, said that it's hard not to view the people of the time through our 21st century lens.  

[Kaylo]

Another Anne of Cleves here.

[FiveAcres]

Any fans here of the historical novels by Dorothy Dunnett?

[Jigsaw3]

OMG yes!  I like Lymond best. Niccolo is fun but more difficult to read (but still great books). They're getting harder to find, though -- I left my copy of Checkmate on a train a couple of years ago and I need to buy a replacement.

I have the Companion and should go through and find all the sources for the various literary quotes and allusions at some point; I get most of them but I'm sure I'm missing some.

[FiveAcres]

13 minutes ago, Jigsaw3 said:

OMG yes!  I like Lymond best. Niccolo is fun but more difficult to read (but still great books). They're getting harder to find, though -- I left my copy of Checkmate on a train a couple of years ago and I need to buy a replacement.

I have the Companion and should go through and find all the sources for the various literary quotes and allusions at some point; I get most of them but I'm sure I'm missing some.

Did you know that there is  at least one really fanatical fan group on the Internet?

[clueliss]

Yesterday I stumbled upon an interesting YouTube channel.  UsefulCharts.  They have family tree/charts for all royal lines and YouTube videos about these.  Heck there’s even trees of biblical family lines  and Game of Thrones.
 

The video below is of the Scot royal houses. 
 

 

Putting here for lack of a better place to toss this.

[DalmatianCat]

Thanks to this thread and a friend I finished “Wolf Hall” before it went off Amazon Prime!

[viii]

15 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

Thanks to this thread and a friend I finished “Wolf Hall” before it went off Amazon Prime!

What are your thoughts on it? I have yet to see it. 

[keen23]

I am partial to Anne of Cleves, and admit that most of my Tudor knowledge comes from the non-fiction writing of Alison Weir.

Lady Margaret Beaufort is also very interesting. Married off at nine (second marriage, childhood arranged marriage was annulled) . A pregnant widow by 13. Mother of a future King at 13. Outlived Henry VII, and saw to it that Henry VIII successfully took the throne. She died the day after Henry VIII turned 18.

[DalmatianCat]

8 hours ago, viii said:

What are your thoughts on it? I have yet to see it. 

Even for a history buff the first episode started incredibly slow, but Damien Lewis and Claire Foy are just so amazing to watch.

The downside to knowing the story is hoping that maybe it will have a different ending and Anne Boleyn will have a son and everyone can live happily ever after ?

The characters of Jane Seymour was done very well, I thought.

And the last shot of Thomas Cromwell at the end finally realizing he’d linked his fate with a madman...incredible acting.

[viii]

Ok I definitely need to watch this! 

[Anna Bolinas]

9 hours ago, keen23 said:

Lady Margaret Beaufort is also very interesting. Married off at nine (second marriage, childhood arranged marriage was annulled) . A pregnant widow by 13. Mother of a future King at 13. Outlived Henry VII, and saw to it that Henry VIII successfully took the throne. She died the day after Henry VIII turned 18.

Yes, she's incredibly interesting! She was able to survive the entirety of the Wars of the Roses despite all of the trials and tribulations she went through. Besides the ones you mentioned, she was also separated from her son for a lengthy period of time when he had to flee, with his paternal uncle, to the continent to escape the Yorkists. She married two more times after Edmund Tudor--first to Sir Henry Stafford and then, after his death, to Thomas Stanley, 1st Earl of Derby. She never had any more children, probably because of the trauma of having Henry at the age of 13. After her son ascended to the throne, he declared his mother a "feme sole," which meant she was treated like an unmarried/widowed woman, allowed to do things like own her own property and sue people in court. She was a huge influence on both her son and her grandson in the first few months of his reign. When Henry VII was negotiating with Scotland for the marriage between his daughter, Margaret (named for her grandmother) and James IV, Margaret Beaufort cautioned Henry against allowing his daughter to go to Scotland too early, fearing that the Scottish king would try to have sex with her too early. Obviously her own experiences loomed large in her mind when it came to the safety of her granddaughter. 

[Seahorse Wrangler]

Just waiting for my birthday/mother's day binge of Anne of Cleves books to hit the mailbox.

[Seahorse Wrangler]

@viii @Kylolo @ADoyle90815 @keen23

 

You might like "Anna Dutchess of Cleves" by Heather  R Darsie. it looks at the European side of the marriage of HVIII and Anna von Julich-Cleve-Berg-und Mark.

[Seahorse Wrangler]

Not sure if any-one has caught these yet The Boleyns: A Scandalous family

part one

part two

part three

[Seahorse Wrangler]

Walking Tudor England

 

This is part two East Anglia. Mary's stronghold.

[Seahorse Wrangler]

Another book on Jane Boleyn which I've downloaded but not read yet.