Tudors: Your Favourite and Why

[Seahorse Wrangler]

@viii, if you are still looking for books on Tudor women, I have just ordered Ladies in Waiting and Gertrude Courtney from Sylvia Soberton.  I already have Great Ladies and the other two Forgotten Tudor Women books.

[Love2Cruise]

I’ve really enjoyed reading through this today.  Just so happens, I am currently in London and spent the day at Windsor Castle and St. George’s.

Lots of discussion about all these individuals today.  Very interesting.  

BTW:  I think Lady Jane Grey might be my favorite Tudor right now.  Her family used her for their own gain.

[TN-peach]

I found this website- William and Harry are direct descendants of Mary Boleyn from the Queen Mother and the Spencer line. I thought it was pretty interesting that the Boleyn line did live on and eventually did become Queen. 
 

https://www.theanneboleynfiles.com/how-prince-william-and-prince-harry-descend-from-mary-boleyn/  

[Loveday]

36 minutes ago, TN-peach said:

I found this website- William and Harry are direct descendants of Mary Boleyn from the Queen Mother and the Spencer line. I thought it was pretty interesting that the Boleyn line did live on and eventually did become Queen. 
 

https://www.theanneboleynfiles.com/how-prince-william-and-prince-harry-descend-from-mary-boleyn/  

I remember reading this some years ago, I used to follow Claire Ridgway on FB, but had forgotten about it. I've often wondered how it might feel to know you're descended from someone so famous in history (or INfamous, depending on who it was!). I reckon when you're born to it all you don't think twice about it, though.

And of course much has been written speculating on whether Henry Carey, Mary Boleyn's son, was actually Henry VIII's son and not William Carey's. No way of knowing now, I suppose, but considering Henry's lack of luck in male heirs, it's doubtful.

[hoipolloi]

I am still hoping that C3 authorizes a new examination & mtDNA testing for the skeletal remains said to be the princes in the Tower, sons of Edward IV, a Plantagenet. His mother rejected previous requests to do so.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

2 hours ago, Loveday said:

I remember reading this some years ago, I used to follow Claire Ridgway on FB, but had forgotten about it. I've often wondered how it might feel to know you're descended from someone so famous in history (or INfamous, depending on who it was!). I reckon when you're born to it all you don't think twice about it, though.

And of course much has been written speculating on whether Henry Carey, Mary Boleyn's son, was actually Henry VIII's son and not William Carey's. No way of knowing now, I suppose, but considering Henry's lack of luck in male heirs, it's doubtful.

Some people speculate that Mary’s daughter Catherine was fathered by Henry as well. That would make William and Harry direct descendants of Henry VIII. I know that Harry’s red hair and - let’s call it impetuousness - come from the Spencer side, but I could really see him as a Henry VIII throwback.

[Seahorse Wrangler]

Courting Scandal, The Rise and Fall of Jane Boleyn< Lady Rochford by James Taffe.

Boils down to she was a conniving biotch who deserved what she got .

[Father Son Holy Goat]

On 5/8/2023 at 3:47 PM, Loveday said:

I remember reading this some years ago, I used to follow Claire Ridgway on FB, but had forgotten about it. I've often wondered how it might feel to know you're descended from someone so famous in history (or INfamous, depending on who it was!). I reckon when you're born to it all you don't think twice about it, though.

And of course much has been written speculating on whether Henry Carey, Mary Boleyn's son, was actually Henry VIII's son and not William Carey's. No way of knowing now, I suppose, but considering Henry's lack of luck in male heirs, it's doubtful.

I think if it was long ago the person would probably be okay with it, whereas the relatives of Hitler are probably less okay with that connection. 

[viii]

On 5/8/2023 at 1:47 PM, Loveday said:

And of course much has been written speculating on whether Henry Carey, Mary Boleyn's son, was actually Henry VIII's son and not William Carey's. No way of knowing now, I suppose, but considering Henry's lack of luck in male heirs, it's doubtful.

Henry had three sons that he acknowledged and two daughters that were acknowledged. Neither of Mary’s children were openly acknowledged as royal bastards so it’s hard to say, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility. Both Katherine and Anne Boleyn had miscarriages of sons, so Henry actually had more sons than he did daughters, the daughters just lived the longest. 

[Loveday]

11 hours ago, viii said:

Henry had three sons that he acknowledged and two daughters that were acknowledged. Neither of Mary’s children were openly acknowledged as royal bastards so it’s hard to say, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility. Both Katherine and Anne Boleyn had miscarriages of sons, so Henry actually had more sons than he did daughters, the daughters just lived the longest. 

I tend to the theory that Henry Carey WAS Henry VIII's son, doubtful though it may be. Henry couldn't really acknowledge any possible bastards via Mary Boleyn while he was trying to get the Pope to annul his marriage to Katherine of Aragon so he could marry Mary's sister! If Mary's children were Henry's, even Henry would have realised that acknowledging them would not advance his case!😆 

[viii]

I also believe that both Mary’s children were royal bastards. I think if Henry had been born before Catherine, then Henry VIII would have acknowledged him. However, by the time Henry was born, Henry VIII was already obsessed with Anne and couldn’t afford to acknowledge the paternity. 

[hoipolloi]

Edward IV is technically a pre-Tudor, but it's interesting that a new theory has emerged on his cause of death in 1483:

Quote

 

King Edward IV was only 40 when he passed away in early 1483, leaving the throne to his 12-year-old son Edward V who died just months later as one of the ill-fated princes in the Tower of London. Many theories have been put forward through the years over his mysterious cause of death, including malaria and even being poisoned.

But now historians believe they may have cracked the case, as new research appears to show the monarch lost his life not in battle or glutton-related illness, like many of his ancestors and descendants - but to syphilis. The disease was common in the Middle Ages and was usually contracted through unprotected sex.

The STI was initially thought to have broken out in the British Isles 10 years after the King's death, brought back by Christopher Columbus' crew on the landing of their America voyage in 1493. But new research shows its parent disease treponematosis was prevalent throughout Europe and Africa since ancient times.

 

There has long been discussion & debate about the origins of syphilis and its place among treponemal diseases since symptoms vary in each of the infections. Notably, syphilis has also been called the "great imitator" so it's not surprising that it may not have been recognized as such in the 15th century.

I will say that E4's skeletal remains would show evidence that he suffered from a treponemal infection but I somehow doubt that C3 would consider that an acceptable scientific inquiry! Still holding out hope, though, that Charles will approve DNA testing for the remains attributed to E4's son(s). 

Edited August 4, 2023 by hoipolloi
Clarity

[QuiverFullofBooks]

22 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Edward IV is technically a pre-Tudor, but it's interesting that a new theory has emerged on his cause of death in 1483:

There has long been discussion & debate about the origins of syphilis and its place among treponemal diseases since symptoms vary in each of the infections. Notably, syphilis has also been called the "great imitator" so it's not surprising that it may not have been recognized as such in the 15th century.

I will say that E4's skeletal remains would show evidence that he suffered from a treponemal infection but I somehow doubt that C3 would consider that an acceptable scientific inquiry! Still holding out hope, though, that Charles will approve DNA testing for the remains attributed to E4's son(s). 

His traditional cause of death is that he went fishing, got wet, and caught a cold that became pneumonia. It’s hard for us to comprehend nowadays, but that sort of thing happened a lot before antibiotics. That being said, he was very promiscuous, and had likely picked up some STDs. 

[viii]

On 8/4/2023 at 1:18 PM, hoipolloi said:

Still holding out hope, though, that Charles will approve DNA testing for the remains attributed to E4's son(s). 

Yes!! That would be amazing. I would love more details on those poor boys. 

[Father Son Holy Goat]

I’d love them to do enough DNA testing to figure out where the pretender snuck in.