Meghan and Harry 2: Now with Archie

[PlentyOfJesusFishInTheSea]

On 8/16/2019 at 10:25 AM, viii said:

 However, she doesn't step an expensive heel out of line much anymore.

That's kind of sad, isn't it?

I mean, isn't it just a little more fun when they do something human and we can all gossip about it?

Also, a token point-out that the cheating rumours are rumours and should be taken with a lot of salt.

[viii]

The cheating rumours are rumours, but I personally believe there’s been enough of them over the years. Where there is smoke, there’s generally fire. Just my opinion though, and in no way fact. 

[front hugs > duggs]

Very interesting:

Prince Harry + fam used Elton John's private jet to go to his home in Nice.  In addition to not paying for it, "to support Prince Harry’s commitment to the environment, we ensured their flight was carbon neutral, by making the appropriate contribution to Carbon Footprint™."

As the famous Taylor Swift once said, haters gonna hate.

https://people.com/royals/elton-john-tweets-prince-harry-meghan-markle-nice-france-vacation/

 

[tabitha2]

To be honest Both William and Kate But esp William grew up in social set where a certain amount of discrete cheating for both sexes was an open secret. So I don’t think it’s absolutely unimaginable one or both could stray sooner or later.

[viii]

2 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

To be honest Both William and Kate But esp William grew up in social set where a certain amount of discrete cheating for both sexes was an open secret. So I don’t think it’s absolutely unimaginable one or both could stray sooner or later.

I don’t think it’s EVER been okay in their social circles for women to cheat and have it be an open secret that everyone is cool with. I would be shocked if it came out that Kate Middleton ever cheated on William. 

[tabitha2]

It’s historical fact that Noble/Society Married women cheated and took lovers almost as frequently as the men did. It was the culture where marriages were made To give the man heirs and the woman security. After they had heirs they just had to be discreet.

[acheronbeach]

2 hours ago, viii said:

I don’t think it’s EVER been okay in their social circles for women to cheat and have it be an open secret that everyone is cool with. I would be shocked if it came out that Kate Middleton ever cheated on William. 

With the King or Crown Prince?  I respectfully disagree... a lot of women openly had liaisons and benefited from it.  Bessie Blount? Hortense Mancini?  Jennie Jerome? Thelma Furness?  Wallis Simpson (at least until David decided to marry her).

There's an interesting discussion in the book "To Marry An English Lord" about how many dollar princesses were shocked by the tacit, silent acceptance of spouses cheating by the British aristocracy. 

[just_ordinary]

13 hours ago, front hugs > duggs said:

Very interesting:

Prince Harry + fam used Elton John's private jet to go to his home in Nice.  In addition to not paying for it, "to support Prince Harry’s commitment to the environment, we ensured their flight was carbon neutral, by making the appropriate contribution to Carbon Footprint™."

As the famous Taylor Swift once said, haters gonna hate.

https://people.com/royals/elton-john-tweets-prince-harry-meghan-markle-nice-france-vacation/

 

There is no such thing as „carbon neutral“ from a scientific point of view. It’s just a feel good lie because the damage is done no matter if you plant a tree or not. (On a side Note: using Elton John‘s jet will not help their PR).

Can I just say: people seem to forget how much bashing William and especially Kate got. And they still do, Meghan and Harry are just the new show horse. When this settles down in approximately 1-2 years  the bashing will be split more evenly again. I find it very tiresome if people claim Kate and Will never got/get a similar treatment. And as this is a thread about Harry and Meghan. It’s to be expected that it’s mostly about them. I certainly wouldn’t post here to complain about w&k going to Mustique again (and I am criticising them a ton for it- for several reasons). There is no denying that many new royals watchers from the USA do so because of Meghan- that’s why you won’t find much about the others (good and bad) unrelated to them when you stick to USA based sources.

Lastly- I think it’s ridiculous to criticise them for taking their baby with them. He might spend lots of time with the nanny but that is still better than not spending time with his parents at all in my opinion. I certainly wouldn’t have a calm second to leave my almost still newborn in a different country. Furthermore, can you imagine the headlines if they left him behind? Times changed and I don’t think it would go over well. I just remember how they ripped William apart when he missed Charlotte’s first Easter to visit an ex girlfriends wedding in Kenya. When it came out, very fast and suddenly some charity work appeared on his schedule but the damage was done.

[tabitha2]

Then it’s going to be a palaver when William and Kate are King and Queen consort( or Even Prince/cess of Wales)and must travel much more. The Children will be in school presumably Eton most of the year for the Boys and some co Ed for the Charlotte and they can’t just pull them out constantly  to go oversees for work or vacation. It’s not a stretch to say the same will apply to the Sussex’s if/when they step it up 

 

[front hugs > duggs]

Now also Ellen DeGeneres has come out in support for them, saying they are down to Earth and trying to make the world a better place.

I wouldn't say I am a "fan" of them or the Royal Family. I'm someone who tends to just keep up with world news, politics, and entertainment as best as I can. I personally don't remember hearing this much bullshit about William and Kate. However, I will be the first to admit that I was in college when they got married and maybe I was just too preoccupied with my own life when they were in their early stages of marriage. For some reason, it just seems different now for H+M than it was then.

[Cleopatra7]

As a cynical, ultra left leaning American, the complaints about Meghan’s spending and jet setting don’t make any sense. The British social contract has decided that a constitutional, heredity monarchy is desirable for the foreseeable future. There is also a small but very noisy contingent of conservatives on both sides of the pond who revel in monarchical excess and imperial aesthetics. You know, the sorts who lament the retiring of the papal tiara or the Royal Yacht Britannia, but think state investment in education or healthcare is money wasted. So given all this, I don’t really see how Meghan’s lifestyle is really that out of the ordinary, given that the UK has already decided that they want to use their taxpayer money to employ a certain family to wear fancy outfits and make small talk (and most the time, they can’t even manage to do these minor tasks right). Okay, fine. One could argue that if your country is really committed to the monarchy thing that you might as well go full on balls to the wall about it. 

As for the plane thing, air travel in general is bad for the environment. Even if Harry and Meghan flew coach with the plebs, it would still be environmentally problematic. I think if they really wanted to do something for the environment, they could commission a royal clipper ship that would drastically reduce carbon emissions:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mashable.com/2016/08/03/carbon-free-shipping-movement.amp

This move would be good for the environment and make the royal groupies happy, not to mention publicize a promising new/old technology.

[Thorns]

@acheronbeachThank you for giving me a new book to read about dukes and lords which is not written by a Quinn or Burke, and does not include Ravished/Seduced by a Lord/Baron/Earl/Rake/Rouge in its title. I feel som much more smarter now!

And I once was on the same plane as the King of Norway going to London. He was very discreet. I did not notice him coming in, and would not have noticed him leaving either if not for the pilot adding "your Majesty" in his security brief. 

[tabitha2]

Ya know if they had just kept Royal Britannia which as just had a huge overhaul and was good for many more years anyway maybe some of this hoopla could have been avoided.  The Danes still have a Royal Ship they use constantly.

[Screamapillar]

I think they got a lot of bashing about the private plane travel because they did it so recently after they high-horsed a bit about how people need to limit their carbon foot print. Not having more than two children for the sake of humanity, etc...

If I make a statement about how we shouldn't eat meat and dairy because of the environmental impact and the very next day am seen scarfing down a Big Mac and Chocolate shake, I'm going to get a lot more snark about it than if I make the statement and it's a year later before I'm seen with burger on my hands.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

I think the biggest issue with Harry & Meghan is that they want all the perks of royal life, with none of the downfalls, i.e. press and intrusion into their private lives. The reports came out that they went 2.7 million pounds over budget on their home the day before they said "sorry not sorry but Archie's Christening will be private", they want it both ways and on the tax payer dime people will be pissed.  

Being old like I am, I recall Prince Andrew and to a lesser extent Prince Edward had troubles transitioning into adulthood/royal responsibility from their semiprivate upbringings.  These two, much like Harry were raised very differently than Charles and William, the latter 2 have been raised, since birth, as the heir apparent(s) and having the weight of the monarchy on them, they get essentially everything, and everyone else will be at their discretion, that puts a lot of tension on a family.  

Harry & Andrew, as the 2nd born sons, had a lot of jealousy that their older brothers were the golden sons and they were essentially the "spare heir" When Harry was born he and Will were literally dubbed, at one point, "The Heir & the spare".  Can you imagine being labeled the spare sibling, and knowing you have no real use unless your brother dies before having children?  Now this was much more so for Andrew than it was for Harry, mostly because of Diana, but she died when Harry was SO YOUNG, and to Charles's credit he did step up and finally become the father BOTH boys needed, but Harry did lose his chief champion in his mother at 12 years old.  Edward being so far removed from the throne by the time he reached royal responsibility age (Will & Harry as well as Bea & Engine had all been born) that he knew he was just along for the ride. 

Add all this to the fact that the Queen with either kick off or be forced to retire in the next few years and Philip could be dead any day now (he's 97 FFS) and Prince Charles wants to kick his brothers & sister, and their families off the Royal dole and Andrew is having a fit as his girls have the HRH title and haven't really had to work. For their parts Anne & Edward seem to be keeping their heads down, doing the work their parents ask and have the kids prepping (for Edwards teenage children) or been prepped (Anne's adult children) for the real world, and Harry must wonder if William won't do the same to him some day.

There will be a lot of growing pains as Elizabeth & Philip pass on. Andrew & Edward weren't born until more than a decade after Elizabeth took the throne, and I doubt Charles and Anne remember much what it was like before she was queen. QE has been on the throne for more than 65 years, and it is what much of her country and most of her own family, has ever known.  For Andrew and Edward their entire upbringing may be taken from them as well as their parents, depending on what kind of asshole Charles turns into when he FINALLY becomes King. 

[tabitha2]

Edward and His wife mostly live a very Quiet  life of Royal Duties with out fuss or scandal. I don’t see Charles bothering to much with them esp.Sophie Wessex seems to be family favorite. Same with incredibly hardworking Ann. 

Andrew will likely be told to quietly retire and not be seen at public events, dinners, etc  as Charles does not need his skeevy rep putting a shadow on the new reign 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

Edward and His wife mostly live a very Quiet  life of Royal Duties with out fuss or scandal. I don’t see Charles bothering to much with them esp.Sophie Wessex seems to be family favorite. Same with incredibly hardworking Ann. 

Andrew will likely be told to quietly retire and not be seen at public events, dinners, etc  as Charles does not need his skeevy rep putting a shadow on the new reign 

Yeah Andrew never really seemed to quiet down from his party days, even after he married Fergie, who seems to be every bit as wild, if not more so, than her not so ex, Ex.

Didn't Edward and Sophie have some trouble early on when they tried to work for a living, before they had kids? I don't remember all those details as I was too busy raising kids myself to pay much attention to the royal family after Diana died, but I do remember thinking that the Brits needed to figure it out, did they want the royal family off the tax dime and working jobs or did they not, when I heard complaints about some kind of production/PR company(?) people complained they used their "positions" to gain work, its been a long time now so I don't remember all the details, and might be completely miss remembering all this, as from about 1998 to 2003 was a completely blur of babies and toddlers. 

A lot of my point is I think Harry & Meghan will settle down and find the right mix of royal/private life. I also wonder if a lot of the trouble is the palace trying to take the popular shine off of the Sussexs? Harry is such a charming charismatic man and Meghan is a beautiful American TV actress and they have much more freedom to be themselves as opposed to Kate & William.  I also think there is some jealousy both ways from the brothers, William is jealous of the freedom Harry has had to be himself, while he's saddled with the responsibility of the monarchy and Harry since he is just "the spare kid"

[tabitha2]

Yeah, Sophie unrealistically thought she could keep her old job and then unwisely tried to use her connections to the Royal family. She learned the hard way and has been pretty exemplary as a working Royal spouse ever since.  She learned from her mistakes. Edward  Tried his hand at Being a documentary maker but that failed as well.  But that was a very long time ago and they can safely be forgiven i think.

 

 

 

 

[just_ordinary]

3 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Yeah Andrew never really seemed to quiet down from his party days, even after he married Fergie, who seems to be every bit as wild, if not more so, than her not so ex, Ex.

Didn't Edward and Sophie have some trouble early on when they tried to work for a living, before they had kids? I don't remember all those details as I was too busy raising kids myself to pay much attention to the royal family after Diana died, but I do remember thinking that the Brits needed to figure it out, did they want the royal family off the tax dime and working jobs or did they not, when I heard complaints about some kind of production/PR company(?) people complained they used their "positions" to gain work, its been a long time now so I don't remember all the details, and might be completely miss remembering all this, as from about 1998 to 2003 was a completely blur of babies and toddlers. 

A lot of my point is I think Harry & Meghan will settle down and find the right mix of royal/private life. I also wonder if a lot of the trouble is the palace trying to take the popular shine off of the Sussexs? Harry is such a charming charismatic man and Meghan is a beautiful American TV actress and they have much more freedom to be themselves as opposed to Kate & William.  I also think there is some jealousy both ways from the brothers, William is jealous of the freedom Harry has had to be himself, while he's saddled with the responsibility of the monarchy and Harry since he is just "the spare kid"

If you read back a view pages- I wrote some about Sophie‘s huge misstep that forced her to step down from her firm/job. It was right the call because she took advantage of her royal position. 

I don’t think the BRF is concerned with the popularity or disdain of the Sussexes. They have the stamina to sit this out because it’s always just a moment till another royal will be paraded up and down the magazines. They sat the whole smear campaign against Kate and Kate and Wiliam out and look who can do no wrong right now.

I do think Meghan and Harry would be wise to raise Archie not to be a working royal. Hopefully, them declining a title at this point is a sign. He will still be extremely privileged and rich but probably don’t have to do more than some obligatory engagements. I think the BRF under Charles will go a similar route as the Spanish one. That would be a massive cutback though. On second thought maybe the change won’t be as drastically but slimming down is a great idea.

[tabitha2]

They do need enough working Senior Royal adults to do Royal duties , take up worthy patronage’s and go on royal tours though. He can’t just have his two children and their wives. The Wessex's and Ann need to stay put. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

14 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

They do need enough working Senior Royal adults to do Royal duties , take up worthy patronage’s and go on royal tours though. He can’t just have his two children and their wives. The Wessex's and Ann need to stay put. 

I agree, I think the Wessex are young enough that they can probably keep working until George ,Charlotte & Louis are old enough to step in, in 20/25 years, Ann maybe not so much isn't she 70 or close to it? I imagine she would want to slow down a bit as she get into her older years, but I could be wrong, look at her mother.  Do the Wessex children have royal titles? I can't remember? 

[VelociRapture]

I think eventually the Sussexes will figure things out. Meghan only just started doing official events as a working royal recently (compared to other members of the family at least) and they’re still very new parents. Big life changes can take some time to adjust to and they’ve had several pretty big ones - like an international move, marriage, and parenthood - all in a short period of time. 

I think there’s definitely room to criticize them on some of their choices, especially how they choose to use tax payer money. I do still think there’s a fair bit of racism and classism involved in some of the criticisms though*. If I remember right, Catherine dealt with a good deal of classist comments at first and those eventually died down. I’m not so sure if the same will be true for Meghan though, simply because she’s a mixed race American divorcée and Catherine is a not previously married white as snow English woman. A lot of people have really ugly beliefs about that kind of stuff and I can easily see it becoming something they have to constantly deal with, which is unfair for so many reasons. It’s especially unfair that people have made racist statements about their infant son, who did not choose to be born into this family and who shouldn’t e a target of hate like that. 

*Not saying anyone here is doing this, just speaking generally. 

1 minute ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I agree, I think the Wessex are young enough that they can probably keep working until George ,Charlotte & Louis are old enough to step in, in 20/25 years, Ann maybe not so much isn't she 70 or close to it? I imagine she would want to slow down a bit as she get into her older years, but I could be wrong, look at her mother.  Do the Wessex children have royal titles? I can't remember? 

No, they don’t. The Wessexes and Princess Anne all declined to have their children granted royal titles if I remember right. 

[tabitha2]

No. They chose to give their son and daughter Titles of Earls children just to take the Royal pressure off them  and the Queen agreed so it’s Lady Louise and James, Viscount Severn. In actually they are Still legally Prince James and Louise Princess of Wessex.  But the chances they will ever officially do Royal work are slim at best. 

[WiseGirl]

Let the comparisons begin. Catherine, William, and family flew a commercial flight. (Probably booked before the Harry/Meghan flight flap). Although it is the Daily Fail https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7383133/Prince-William-wife-Kate-Middleton-children-seen-boarding-budget-flight-Scotland.html

[Cat Damon]

I do wonder when people that are currently giving Meghan the benefit of the doubt (being new to not only Great Britain but marrying into the royal family) are going to stop being so nice about her and Harry's missteps? Overall I like them, they seem to really love each other and (at least on the outside) care about the charities and work they've chosen to do.

On the other hand sometimes I just think- give me a break, she's 38 years old and while it's hard to adapt to new situations, she's not a child who doesn't understand what's going on or how things work. She has tons of people willing to give her advice and she just doesn't seem interested. I'm an American so maybe I don't get it? It isn't my taxes going towards their lifestyle (and I'm not 100% sure that anyone's are? Charles pays for their livelihoods right? Please correct me if I'm wrong), but the spending, especially on her wardrobe, is getting a little old.

As far as the most recent brouhaha about their traveling, I don't really care if they fly private and I'm jealous that they can do that, but is no one telling them how that looks? Or do Meghan and Harry just not care what people think?

Edited August 22, 2019 by Cat Damon