Meghan and Harry 2: Now with Archie

[acheronbeach]

1 hour ago, viii said:

Harry, Meghan and Archie just flew to Ibiza on a private jet. This is what I mean by tone deaf. 

Hard to believe that there was a time when Harry (and William) were spotted flying budget airlines like Ryanair and Easyjet.  

[viii]

The royal family has flown commercially before, and that was before their big global, climate speeches. They can certainly do it again. 

[tabitha2]

She is a little bit Hollywood, He is a little bit Royalty and they both think they are more than a little bit more important than they are apparently. 

[Blahblah]

Carbon footprint aside, it’s ostentatious. But we don’t hear anything about how Kate & William travel. Are they hopping around in private jets too? If so, why we aren’t picking on them too? If not, good on them. Either way, Meghan and Harry could learn how to travel appropriately and/or discreetly.

[Smash!]

The royal family has flown commercially before, and that was before their big global, climate speeches. They can certainly do it again. 

They don't have to fly budget airlines but business or even first class on a decent airline would certainly cost less?

[ViolaSebastian]

Maybe I'm way off base, but isn't Ibiza known as a party spot, and thus a weird choice to take a two-month-old to?

[tabitha2]

You don’t think the Duchess will actually be doing most of the child tending do you?  Presumably they have a nursery suite and Nanny installed.  It’s what the Cambridge’s do when they vacation.

[ViolaSebastian]

3 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

You don’t think the Duchess will actually be doing most of the child tending do you?  Presumably they have a nursery suite and Nanny installed.  It’s what the Cambridge’s do when they vacation.

I don't. But that's all the more reason to leave the little guy behind in familiar surroundings.

[Gobbles]

4 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Maybe I'm way off base, but isn't Ibiza known as a party spot, and thus a weird choice to take a two-month-old to?

Certain areas, same with the sister island Mallorca. Media likes to portray it as a mass tourism party hot spot, but on both islands are more then enough areas with not a single tourist even in the middle of August. (You do need a rental car though!)  So it totally depends on where you are going. 

[tabitha2]

44 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I don't. But that's all the more reason to leave the little guy behind in familiar surroundings.

 

I agree. But in a few months they will be carting this baby on a tour of Africa so they obviously don’t care about that.

[viii]

17 hours ago, Blahblah said:

Carbon footprint aside, it’s ostentatious. But we don’t hear anything about how Kate & William travel. Are they hopping around in private jets too? If so, why we aren’t picking on them too? If not, good on them. Either way, Meghan and Harry could learn how to travel appropriately and/or discreetly.

I agree with this, I wish more articles would talk about how hypocritical William and Kate are. Of course, we know exactly why the magazines don't. 

[VelociRapture]

41 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

 

I agree. But in a few months they will be carting this baby on a tour of Africa so they obviously don’t care about that.

What did you think about William and Catherine bringing infant George with them to Australia? He was only a little older than Archie will be when he travels to Africa with his parents. It seems like it’s kind of “standard” for royal parents to bring their young children on the tours now (or maybe just standard for William and Harry’s families.)

[tabitha2]

I don’t think infants and very small children need to be on these tours frankly. It’s extra expense and serves no purpose, the kids don’t get much out of it at that age.  but to look good for the cameras. If Meghan does not want to leave her baby fine so she she can stay behind.The Queen and Margaret stayed with their Grandparents as did the Queens children.

[formergothardite]

William has spoken out about needing to take care of the environment and he, Kate and the kids jetted off on a private plane to vacation on a private island recently. I'm not sure why posters are not jumping all over them.  A quick look seems like they tend to use private planes to go off on vacation despite also lecturing people on the environment yet they do not get called out like Meghan and Harry. I wonder why? 

[ViolaSebastian]

5 hours ago, formergothardite said:

William has spoken out about needing to take care of the environment and he, Kate and the kids jetted off on a private plane to vacation on a private island recently. I'm not sure why posters are not jumping all over them.  A quick look seems like they tend to use private planes to go off on vacation despite also lecturing people on the environment yet they do not get called out like Meghan and Harry. I wonder why? 

For the sake of this discussion, I brought it up because Prince Harry is currently much more vocal about how we all need to be greener (except for himself and his family, naturally) than Prince William. If Prince William started jetting down to give talks on climate change at Google Camp and broadcasting self-congratulatory interviews with Jane Goodall, I would take the time to criticize him as well. 

However, if people think I'm a bigot, they should come out and say it directly, rather than insinuate it. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by ViolaSebastian

[viii]

6 hours ago, formergothardite said:

William has spoken out about needing to take care of the environment and he, Kate and the kids jetted off on a private plane to vacation on a private island recently. I'm not sure why posters are not jumping all over them.  A quick look seems like they tend to use private planes to go off on vacation despite also lecturing people on the environment yet they do not get called out like Meghan and Harry. I wonder why? 

If you bother to scroll up, you will see that people have commented on it. 

[FluffySnowball]

15 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

 

I agree. But in a few months they will be carting this baby on a tour of Africa so they obviously don’t care about that.

Entirely unrelated to the royal fam and Harry/Meghan/Archie but I just detest the notion parents should leave their children when going on vacation. My parents did that when I was fairly young (a bit older than baby Archie though, I was between 3 and 7) and it’s something I never forgot. If you have kids, you ought to include them into your life and not just leave the for weeks on end to have a nice child free time while citing that flying might be a little exhausting for a little one. 

14 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

I don’t think infants and very small children need to be on these tours frankly. It’s extra expense and serves no purpose, the kids don’t get much out of it at that age.  but to look good for the cameras. If Meghan does not want to leave her baby fine so she she can stay behind.The Queen and Margaret stayed with their Grandparents as did the Queens children.

The Queen’s children stayed behind for half a year, not seeing their parents at all. 

Kids don’t remember most of their early childhoods. So, you’d also agree young infants don’t need toys and a good treatment cause the former costs money and the latter won’t be remembered? That’s ridiculous. 

If someone, royal or commoner, decides to have a child/children, then yes, money needs to be spent for them and they need to receive care and love, regardless of their abilities to remember specific instances later on. 

[formergothardite]

9 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

For the sake of this discussion, I brought it up because Prince Harry is currently much more vocal about how we all need to be greener (except for himself and his family, naturally) than Prince William. If Prince William started jetting down to give talks on climate change at Google Camp and broadcasting self-congratulatory interviews with Jane Goodall, I would take the time to criticize him as well. 

However, if people think I'm a bigot, they should come out and say it directly, rather than insinuate it. 

Prince William gave talks this year on the environment while at the same time his family was jetting around on vacations. I don't think people are bigots if they criticize Meghan and Harry, but it seems like they get criticized way more, not just here, but everywhere, than Will and Kate, when even when Will and Kate are doing pretty much the exact same thing. 

'I wonder why? Is it because she is American? She not doing well on the learning curve for being a royal? Harry being kind of a doofus? If I wanted to call someone a bigot I would, I've posted here long enough that people should know that. But reading these threads it really seems like people pick on Meghan and Harry while not treating Will and Kate the same way and I really don't know why. 

8 hours ago, viii said:

If you bother to scroll up, you will see that people have commented on it. 

I did, but it really isn't talked about at the same level as Meghan and Harry. Will and Kate don't have a thread where people point out every single thing they do wrong. And it isn't just FJ, lots of places focus on the things Meghan and Harry do wrong while glossing over what Will and Kate do.

[Smash!]

I did, but it really isn't talked about at the same level as Meghan and Harry. Will and Kate don't have a thread where people point out every single thing they do wrong. And it isn't just FJ, lots of places focus on the things Meghan and Harry do wrong while glossing over what Will and Kate do.

I think the reason isn't necessarily because she's American or out of racism. What I've seen so far is that Kate's behaviour in public is what people expect from her. They do all this nasty stuff like jetting around in a private plane while lecturing others about sustainability in private where people won't notice it so easily. Whereas Meghan's public attendances seem to be carefully chosen in order to get maximum coverage in magazines and social media. At least that's my impression. Wimbledon, hugging Beyonce on the red carpet at a film premiere, the Vogue cover and so on. If she does all this stuff so publicly, being criticized it's the logical consequence. Especially if she oversteps the boundaries on what a working member of the RF is expected to do, as someone ([mention]Acheronbeach[/mention]?) explained so well in a post above.

[viii]

Kate has gotten her fair share of bad press in the past. However, she doesn't step an expensive heel out of line much anymore. She does her (bare) minimum of engagements, has popped out three heirs, and has perfected her smile despite her straying husband. The attention has turned to Meghan, who is a different woman than Kate, and didn't prepare her entire life for this. I think some criticism of her is fair, since a lot of it could be easily remedied, but I do think the intense discussion of her on various news sites or sites like royal dish come from a place of hatred. 

[formergothardite]

1 hour ago, viii said:

I think some criticism of her is fair, since a lot of it could be easily remedied, but I do think the intense discussion of her on various news sites or sites like royal dish come from a place of hatred. 

I agree. The baby shower event was something she could handle. Along with the weird behavior at Wimbledon. But it seems like she can't do anything right. She is literally getting criticized for taking her baby with her when she goes on vacation and not wanting to leave him when she travels for long periods while working!  If she left the little tot to jaunt off on a vacation she would have gotten criticized for that. 

 

2 hours ago, Smash! said:

What I've seen so far is that Kate's behaviour in public is what people expect from her. They do all this nasty stuff like jetting around in a private plane while lecturing others about sustainability in private where people won't notice it so easily. Whereas Meghan's public attendances seem to be carefully chosen in order to get maximum coverage in magazines and social media.

There were several articles about Kate and Will taking a private plane to a private island, so it not like they hid what they did. The media reaction to it was different though, which made it look more private. The titles for articles about both instances are so different. So, while Meghan may behave in different ways than Kate, when she behaves in pretty much the same way it is criticized in a way Kate isn't. 

[Palimpsest]

21 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

What did you think about William and Catherine bringing infant George with them to Australia? He was only a little older than Archie will be when he travels to Africa with his parents. It seems like it’s kind of “standard” for royal parents to bring their young children on the tours now (or maybe just standard for William and Harry’s families.)

Yes, but it's been common for a while.  Charles and Diana started it when they took baby William to Australia.  William and Kate took baby George to Australia and also took Charlotte to Canada when she was quite tiny.  Prior to that, QEII left the kids at home.  And got slammed for staying away from Charles and Anne for 6 months shortly after becoming Queen. 

The Royals can be damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

The private planes are not about security.  The royals take plenty of commercial flights and have been spotted on budget airlines.  They also take charter flights on some royal tours, if necessary, but they usually fly commercial airlines when travelling at government cost.  They all get smacked by the press if helicopter trips or private travel is thought unnecessary while on the job.  If they want to take private planes to vacation spots and cover their own costs, fine.

But it is pretty darn stupid to spout off about the environment one minute and jump on a private jet the next.  They deserve to get their royal knuckles rapped.  Harry, I am looking at you!  Silly boy.

4 hours ago, viii said:

Kate has gotten her fair share of bad press in the past. However, she doesn't step an expensive heel out of line much anymore. She does her (bare) minimum of engagements, has popped out three heirs, and has perfected her smile despite her straying husband. The attention has turned to Meghan, who is a different woman than Kate, and didn't prepare her entire life for this. I think some criticism of her is fair, since a lot of it could be easily remedied, but I do think the intense discussion of her on various news sites or sites like royal dish come from a place of hatred. 

 Wait, does William stray?  He's been called an idle layabout in the past but that one is new to me.

I agree, people forget.  Kate had a steep learning curve and has had plenty of criticism in the past.  She's been slammed for lacking work ethic and not knowing anything about her patronages (possibly deserved).  People also used to be very nasty about her wardrobe malfunctions but she seems to have learned to put weights in her skirt hems these days.  She's rather boring nowadays.

Some of this is just that "Meghan the married in American" is simply the latest target.  But there is a definitely a racist undercurrent in the press.  And sometimes it isn't an undercurrent, it is as overt as stink.  And Piers Morgan can STFU.

Megs should cultivate a friendship with Emma, Lady Weymouth.  Emma's been through the wringer.  If anyone needs a rabbit hole on one of the strangest and dysfunctional British aristocratic families, look into the Loins of Longleat (Lord Bath) and his wifelets.  And how Ceawlin Thynn (Viscount Weymouth) banned his mum from his wedding for overt racism.

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Palimpsest

[ViolaSebastian]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

Prince William gave talks this year on the environment while at the same time his family was jetting around on vacations. I don't think people are bigots if they criticize Meghan and Harry, but it seems like they get criticized way more, not just here, but everywhere, than Will and Kate, when even when Will and Kate are doing pretty much the exact same thing. 

'I wonder why? Is it because she is American? She not doing well on the learning curve for being a royal? Harry being kind of a doofus? If I wanted to call someone a bigot I would, I've posted here long enough that people should know that. But reading these threads it really seems like people pick on Meghan and Harry while not treating Will and Kate the same way and I really don't know why. 

I did, but it really isn't talked about at the same level as Meghan and Harry. Will and Kate don't have a thread where people point out every single thing they do wrong. And it isn't just FJ, lots of places focus on the things Meghan and Harry do wrong while glossing over what Will and Kate do.

I want to sincerely apologize to you, @formergothardite. I took your comment as an insinuation of something that you didn't intend, and it's on me that I took it to mean that I was criticizing Meghan and Harry because of Meghan's race. I was accused to racism when I expressed by discomfort with Meghan for her extravagant (imho) baby shower, and it's made me sensitive to that kind of criticism on this thread. But that is besides the point, and I truly do apologize.

That said, I've been thinking about why Meghan and Harry are unpopular and receive a lot of flack since I read your comment this morning. I think this is a more complex issue than Meghan just being American or her being part African-American. From my cursory Googling, it appears that the responsibility, rightly or wrongly, falls on Meghan. For example, in November, 2018, a few months after the two married, a poll determined Prince Harry to be more popular than even the Queen herself (1). Anecdotally, I remember him being quite popular at that time as well. He was considered, I think, to be more genuine and likable than his brother. Personally, I was never a huge fan of his due to the Nazi uniform scandal. That was an enormous mistake, given the history of his family and the people whom he represents. He was old enough and educated well enough to know better, and he still did it. I cannot imagine him not realizing how much offense it was going to cause.

I honestly think part of it is that she, unfortunately, reminds people of Wallis Simpson--just by being American and being previously divorced. She's also made a lot of faux paus and outright publicity mistakes. I think the tipping point was her pregnancy and Archie's birth. Meghan snubbed the British press with both the announcement of his birth and then the subsequent issues related to releasing the Godparents names. After that, it was game-on in the British press to unleash a torrent of stories about her missteps and mistakes.

I also think she spends lavishly and that rankles people, given that she's the wife of the seventh in-line to the throne and that we're living in tough financial times. She and Harry's wedding was more expensive than William and Kate's, and he's the heir to the throne (2). In 2018, her wardrobe cost six times what Kate Middleton's did. (3). I also think that the Frogmore renovation pissed people off, too. (I personally don't have an issue with it because I think it was wise to preserve an older, historically important building, but on the face of it, 3 million pounds is a lot when you add in the optics of their other spending). And before anyone comes at me, yes, William and Kate spend lavishly, too--I think the difference is that people are more willing to accept and/or ignore spending from the heir to the throne and his family than from an auxiliary member of the family--and people are definitely not willing to look away from a seventh-in-line who is spending more extravagantly than the third-in-line. Prince Charles realizes that the public is no longer willing to tolerate and support an extended royal family, and it's been rumored for he supports a 'slimmed down' monarchy (4).

The Duchess of Sussex has been caught in some outright lies, too. Remember when she didn't know much about Harry or the British Royal Family? (5) Well, here she is a photo with a blonde Kate in 2014. (6). Whether she intends it or not, she comes off as insincere and dare I say it, fake. The mixed messages that she and Harry send by demanding privacy and then participating in behaviors that court publicity are part of that, too. For example, the Wimbledon gaffe, where she would have most likely received less publicity by just sitting in a row with other people, rather than conspicuously sitting surrounded by an entire section of empty seats. This could be because she's used to dealing with the press as an actress, which imho doesn't carry over well in her new role as a royal. And that's stuff that I think will improve in time. 

When Kate Middleton was William's girlfriend and then when they were newly married, I do remember that the knives were out for Kate, too. People went after her about stupid stuff, like serving lamb at her wedding or her wardrobe mistakes, as well as bigger stuff like skipping out on events (Duchess Doolittle, anyone)? So this may be indicative of a settling in period for Meghan and things may start to look up for her, public-opinion-wise. 

 

1. https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2018/11/prince-harry-most-popular-royal

2. https://www.ibtimes.com/meghan-markle-harrys-wedding-shockingly-pricier-kate-middleton-williams-10m-2809235

3. https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/life/1067367/Meghan-Markle-news-kate-middleton-latest-dress-wardrobe-cost

4. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2180012/Princes-war-How-Charles-plans-slimmed-monarchy-driven-dagger-Andrews-heart--sparked-Palace-power-struggle.html

5. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/27/meghan-on-harry-i-didnt-know-much-about-him-i-just-asked-is-he-nice

6. https://people.com/royals/meghan-markle-holds-kate-middleton-magazine-resurfaced-photo/

[formergothardite]

10 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

The Duchess of Sussex has been caught in some outright lies, too. Remember when she didn't know much about Harry or the British Royal Family? (5) Well, here she is a photo with a blonde Kate in 2014.

I went and read more about this. The magazine had Kate's picture(and a false story about twins) but Meghan had contributed something to the magazine that was unrelated to the royal family. Holding a magazine with Kate on the cover where Meghan contributed something in the magazine doesn't mean she lied. Not in the slightest. That seems like a huge stretch. Hell, I've bought a trash magazine to read with their pictures on the cover and still wouldn't say I know a ton about them. 

 Yes, she also has a old blog about Kate and being a princess, but she says she wanted to be She-Ra Princes of Power. She can write about the royal wedding in a blog post and be seen holding a trash magazine with Kate on the cover and not lie when she said she didn't know anything about Harry and wanted to know first of all if he was nice. We can read about Harry all day long and still not truly know if he is a nice person. I don't see how she was caught in an outright lie at all. 

There are plenty of actual things to criticize them for, but Kate and Will fly around on private planes while lecturing others about the environment too, so it isn't like Harry and Meghan are the only Royal hypocrites who are out of touch. And being jumped on for not leaving her child for a vacation while Will and Kate just took all three kids on their vacation makes me think that she is damned if she does, damned if she doesn't.  

[WiseGirl]

On 8/16/2019 at 9:10 AM, formergothardite said:

Harry being kind of a doofus? 

I just like this line....

I think Harry and Meghan need to settle into their roles and maybe pay attention to some of the feedback as to why they often come off as tone-deaf on some things (imo). Some of it, again imo, is racism based given the times we live in/far-right reading it's ugly head (looking at you 45).

Catherine and Meghan are only two women with the spotlight so glaring on them in such a way - neither had an instruction booklet and both have/had steep learning curves,  constant British press critcisms ("feuds between the two) etc. On some level, despite the privilege, it can't be easy for either and it comes at a price.

IMO Meghan and Harry are bearing the brunt of critcisms now because they are the new glamour couple. Then again it is classic tabloidism. Build them up as a fairytale couple and then spend the next year shredding them to pieces/criticising them.