American Missionary Killed by Indigenous Tribe

[luv2laugh]

Chau’s Mother is reported to believe he is still alive. I think she is in the stage of denial.

BBC reported what they did with the bodies of the fishermen that they killed in 2006. They put them on bamboo stakes. They’re also at risk of flu & measles from contact:

”The risk of a deadly epidemic of flu, measles or other outside disease is very real, and increases with every contact," said Survival International's director Stephen Corry. "Such efforts in similar cases in the past have ended with the Sentinelese attempting to defend their island by force

The tribesmen have also treated outsiders with hostility for years. In 2006, two fishermen were killed and their bodies placed on bamboo stakes, Mr Pathak said. 

A murder case has been registered against unknown persons but it has not been suggested tribesmen will face any charges.”

Regional police chief Dependra Pathak told Agence France-Presse: "They stared at us and we were looking at them." The boat then withdrew.

"We have mapped the area with the help of these fishermen. We have not spotted the body yet but we roughly know the area where he is believed to be buried," Mr Pathak said.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-india-46345231

I think I remember it being said they were seen burying Chau’s body? Would they put the bodies of the fishermen on stakes as a warning of other outsiders trying to come on their land? They clearly don’t want people there... I read report that said they have been visited in history by both the British & Japanese and will be not be ok with people coming there in uniform. I don’t know what police think they will accomplish...

Edited November 27, 2018 by luv2laugh

[Duggarite]

The island is property of the Sentinelese. Their isolation is protected by Indian law. They seem pretty happy to live isolated. They have been living like that for thousands of years. I get that they’ll probably be better off with modern medicine and better housing and clean water, but the issue here would only be about children that are looked after by their families. Adults have the absolute right to live in caves, drink non potable water and refuse medical treatment. As taking children off their families is obviously not a great choice I would say that if they want to live isolated, then leave them alone and in peace.

 

Chau went there three times, the first two the islanders made clear they did not want any contact and he was not well received. The third time... it did not end well. 

 

If you go to a farm in the USA where a secluded keep to themselves family lives and they do not want any contact with you, they fire their rifle to the air, you come back the next day, they fire their rifle to the air, you come back the third time and try to enter the farm grounds... how do you think this will end???  And probably a lot of right-wing supporters would defend you were trespassing and defend the farm owner. 

 

Having darker skin is definitely not a reason to not have legal rights. 

 

As I said before I am not an expert and we could be debating for ages what is the best course of action with the Sentinelese people and if integrating them in the Indian society, is an option, but  a misionaré reading the Bible out loud is not the way to go. 

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, Duggarite said:

 but the issue here would only be about children that are looked after by their families. Adults have the absolute right to live in caves, drink non potable water and refuse medical treatment. As taking children off their families is obviously not a great choice I would say that if they want to live isolated, then leave them alone and in peace.

It is more than "not a great choice;" it is an act of Genocide as defined by the UN Genocide Convention.  As of 2017, 149 nation states have ratified that convention.

Quote

 

Definition of genocide

Article 2 of the Convention defines genocide as

... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

— Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2[4]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention

2 hours ago, Duggarite said:

we could be debating for ages what is the best course of action with the Sentinelese people and if integrating them in the Indian society, is an option,

Oh, please let's stop debating this.  It seems quite cut and dried to me. 

Bottom line:  It is only an option if the Sentinelese want it to be an option.  They are aware of the outside world and have made it very clear that they don't want to be interfered with.  At all.  

 

[fundiefan]

2 hours ago, Duggarite said:

As I said before I am not an expert and we could be debating for ages what is the best course of action with the Sentinelese people and if integrating them in the Indian society, is an option, but  a misionaré reading the Bible out loud is not the way to go. 

There is no debate. They have the right to be left alone. Everyone else is required to leave them alone. The Indian government, the only outside entity that has any part in the matter based on territorial lines, says leave them alone. I see absolutely nothing that anyone could possibly consider debate worthy.

[Alice in Fundieland]

I don’t understand how authorities think recovering his body could be possible, yet they are attempting it. 

https://people.com/crime/john-chau-slain-missionary-body-authorities-encounter-tribe-bows-arrows/

[Glasgowghirl]

I don't think anyone should risk their lives to recover his body. He chose to do what he did and sadly, his family will have to deal with the consequences of that decision. This is not the 16th or 17th century where people are exploring lands previously thought to be undiscovered. He had access to a lot of information on the Sentinalise people and yet failed to even grasp what gifts the people actually want and after the first two times of meeting hostility, he still went back. If he hadn't been killed he would have kept going back until they did kill him.

[fundiefan]

All hell is going to break loose if those trying to recover the body end up dead. I sincerely fear the results. 

More lives with most definitely be lost afterwards, and the Sentinelese will be decimated in some all out violence. 

Nothing about this can end well. For anyone. 

[refugee]

15 hours ago, DarkAnts said:

The tribe liked the coconuts and bananas officials gave them years ago when they were trying to make contact. The tribe only gets coconuts when they wash up on shore. Chaus gifts were so stupid. 

I’ll second that. I hadn’t read about the duct tape, but I did read that he tried to give them a football. A football!

Duct tape and football. Sounds like he went to the Tim Allen School of Missionary training (not dinging Tim Allen as a person, as I know nothing about him, but Chau’s approach reminds me of some of Allen’s comedy routines. Inept but supremely confident).

Edited November 27, 2018 by refugee
I have no clue what autocorrect was thinking

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, fundiefan said:

All hell is going to break loose if those trying to recover the body end up dead. I sincerely fear the results. 

More lives with most definitely be lost afterwards, and the Sentinelese will be decimated in some all out violence. 

Nothing about this can end well. For anyone. 

I also worry about what disease they could bring to those people. And I'm not talking something major, even just a common cold. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by libgirl2

[The Mother Dust]

On 11/25/2018 at 1:11 PM, DangerNoodle said:

If I could have one question answered  I think it would be about the small gene pool. 

Take the Amish. They have all kinds of disorders associated with a small gene pool. And there are like a quarter of a million Amish. There are only like 50ish members of this tribe. I wonder how that has affected them. 

This is the first thing I thought of.  I would love to hear from anyone here who might know more about genetics. How have they not died out from the inevitable inbreeding?  Especially since that population has been on that island for thousands of years.  I find that fascinating.   Please understand I mean no disrespect. I am genuinely curious about the scientific aspect of that.

[libgirl2]

3 minutes ago, The Mother Dust said:

This is the first thing I thought of.  I would love to hear from anyone here who might know more about genetics. How have they not died out from the inevitable inbreeding?  Especially since that population has been on that island for thousands of years.  I find that fascinating.   Please understand I mean no disrespect. I am genuinely curious about the scientific aspect of that.

That is interesting. Maybe in a society where there is no technology it isn't as pronounced.  

[samurai_sarah]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6433181/Body-U-S-missionary-left-Indian-Ocean-island-puts-tribe-risk-disease.html

For anyone who doesn't want to click or read the article, here's the headline:

Quote

 

Friends say American missionary could still be ALIVE as experts warn tribe who shot him could be wiped out by deadly disease if anyone goes to their island to search for his body

 

And the talking points:
 

Quote

 

John Allen Chau, 26, was shot by arrows when he went to North Sentinel Island 

Missionary paid local fishermen to help him get to the island last Thursday

Tribal rights activists say any efforts to recover the body puts tribe at risk

Sentinelese could be 'wiped out' if exposed to disease such as flu or measles

 

 

[The Mother Dust]

1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

That is interesting. Maybe in a society where there is no technology it isn't as pronounced.  

How would technology make it more pronounced?   (Genuine question, no sarcasm intended)

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, The Mother Dust said:

How would technology make it more pronounced?   (Genuine question, no sarcasm intended)

I think I worded it poorly. This is a group where there is no school, probably no written language, no phones or computers. Its primitive. Certain deficiencies wouldn't stand in the way of someone being able to live in this context.  They live a very basic life. Some physical issues such as certain disease might explain why there isn't a larger number of people living there as children might not survive infancy. 

[The Mother Dust]

1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

I think I worded it poorly. This is a group where there is no school, probably no written language, no phones or computers. Its primitive. Certain deficiencies wouldn't stand in the way of someone being able to live in this context.  They live a very basic life. Some physical issues such as certain disease might explain why there isn't a larger number of people living there as children might not survive infancy. 

Ahh, I got you.  Interesting theory.  Thanks.

[msjodylynn26]

Interesting

From USA Today https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/2123399002 (link not broken cuz USA today and they don't care).

Apparently this guy went on a mission to one of the few remote tribes left in the world where they are completely isolated and no one knows their language or culture. They killed him and buried his body on their island. Now the Indian government is saying that no one should bother his remains for fear of bringing in disease. 

This is what makes me so angry about missionaries. They are so arrogant and think they are above everyone and so special. God botherers. The guy's diary said "I hope this isn't my last note." He knew he was in deep Doo doo but he still went.

[Black Aliss]

1 hour ago, refugee said:

I’ll second that. I hadn’t read about the duct tape, but I did read that he tried to give them a football. A football!

Duct tape and football. Sounds like he went to the Tim Allen School of Missionary training (not dinging Tim Allen as a person, as I know nothing about him, but Chau’s approach reminds me of some of Allen’s comedy routines. Inept but supremely confident).

Maybe he should have brought a can of WD-40. And dropped everything from a plane.

[MadameOvary]

1 hour ago, The Mother Dust said:

This is the first thing I thought of.  I would love to hear from anyone here who might know more about genetics. How have they not died out from the inevitable inbreeding?  Especially since that population has been on that island for thousands of years.  I find that fascinating.   Please understand I mean no disrespect. I am genuinely curious about the scientific aspect of that.

I'm no expert on genetics. But my guess would be that evolution has worked its wonders and they have adapted to their limited gene pool.

[anjulibai]

Given the long term isolation, a lot of genetic disorders might be bred out over time, through those afflicted dying. 

[Zebedee]

Ugh, according to the Daily Mail (admittedly, not a reputable news source!) his mother prayed "and has a feeling" her son is alive, as does a friend. So, naturally, lives should be risked to see if he is alive. Even though he wanted to live with the tribe. So, if he *were* alive, and miraculously didn't kill the tribe with diseases, the last thing he'd want to do is be removed... and have Gpd's work interfered with... No worries expressed about any illnesses he may already have passed on, let alone fears for the retrievers and tribe, whether they went to retrieve him or his body.*deep sigh* 

Of course, since he's not alive, this is all moot.

[anjulibai]

There's a thread on this already on Quiver Full of Snark, just an FYI. 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, samurai_sarah said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6433181/Body-U-S-missionary-left-Indian-Ocean-island-puts-tribe-risk-disease.html

For anyone who doesn't want to click or read the article, here's the headline:

And the talking points:
 

 

From that and a couple of other things I have read, it seems they are looking for more proof that he is dead than they are making efforts to recover the body.   If the Sentinelese hung the corpse from a bamboo stake instead of burying it (as they did with the fishermen) it might prove to the family that he is dead and gone.

Mind you, the family apparently isn't going to accept the word of the eye-witnesses that they saw Chau die in a hail of arrows and the Sentinelese bury him.  I'm not sure a photo of the corpse will do it either.  

And no efforts should be made to recover the body.  How many more people, Indians and Sentinelese, do the family want to see die just so they have something to bury.

I'm sorry to sound so cold - but that is the reality.

And Ms Ho of Allnations.us is a big fat liar:

Quote

Ms Ho said the Indian government lifted restrictions on traveling to the island in August. She said she couldn't comment on why Chau arrived there the way he did, but that he carefully planned it.

Oh, no, they didn't.

 

 

 

 

[libgirl2]

13 minutes ago, MadameOvary said:

I'm no expert on genetics. But my guess would be that evolution has worked its wonders and they have adapted to their limited gene pool.

I think that is entirely possible. 

Just look at sickle cell anemia. It is prevalent in people of African descent. They say that it is adaptation of genetics to fight of malaria. The parasite is unable to enter the red blood cells due to the sickle shape. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by libgirl2

[Palimpsest]

7 minutes ago, MadameOvary said:

I'm no expert on genetics. But my guess would be that evolution has worked its wonders and they have adapted to their limited gene pool.

Yes, and any genetic mutations incompatible with life in that culture have been naturally or deliberately culled out.

Worth noting though, not all genetic mutations caused by inbreeding are negative.  I remembered this old article about an isolated group and luckily managed to find it again;

https://newatlas.com/amish-genetic-mutation-lifespan-diabetes/52212/

Quote

Scientists at Northwestern University have discovered a genetic mutation in an isolated Amish population that helps them live longer and healthier lives, and protects them from diabetes and other age-related illnesses. A drug that mimics those effects is currently being trialled in humans, and shows promise in slowing aging, preventing diabetes and may even counteract baldness.

They do have to be careful because the same mutation causes a blood clotting disorder.

[The Mother Dust]

14 minutes ago, MadameOvary said:

I'm no expert on genetics. But my guess would be that evolution has worked its wonders and they have adapted to their limited gene pool.

Given my vague recollection of highschool genetics, I wouldn't have thought that this was even a thing that could be possible....that the "rules" of genetics just wouldn't allow this to happen.  But I suppose it's really the only thing that makes sense.  As Jeff Golblum in Jurassic Park said, "life finds a way...."
ETA @Palimpsest I only saw your post after I made this post.  That is very fascinating.  I will definitely be googling more on that when I am bored at work ?

Edited November 27, 2018 by The Mother Dust