Razing Ruth posted an update!

[library_youth]

She talks about going with her fiance to visit her family. They've done some pre-marital counseling and wedding plans are still on.

So glad to finally hear an update from her!

razingruth.blogspot.com

[ThisOlGirl]

I'm so glad to hear she's doing well. Between her father and that scary ex of hers, she deserves all the happiness in the world.

I love that her father was completely silent and had nothing to say out in public, but all of a sudden he grew a pair when they were all at Ruth's brother's house. What a sad, pathetic little man. It must be eating his guts out that he has absolutely no control over her.

[Lainey]

What kind of mother would miss her daughter's wedding? Ugh. I'm disgusted! I expect no more from her dad, but in my opinion, there's no excuse for her mother. Even my crazy mom managed to attend my wedding and behave herself. She even winked at me when I was standing up by the altar, which made me feel much better because I was really nervous.

[Nothing2CHere]

Thanks for posting about this, because I probably wouldn't have thought to check our her blog on my own.

You go, Ruth! So good of them to decide to go to counseling together when they realized it could help them. I hope they have the wedding of their dreams :)

[Guest Anonymous]

Wow, I really feel for Ruth.

I think Harris's mother was very naive to push the meeting with Ruth's family. I expect she is very worried about what her son is marrying into, and wanted to see for herself, but it seems like a red flag to me that she felt Ruth's parents had a 'right' to meet Harris. From the way Ruth writes the entry, it also seems as though Harris's mother decided for herself that she was going along to meet the family, rather than waiting to see if she was invited.

I am glad that Ruth and Harris has some counselling (and I hope the parents weren't involved in that!) The proposal scenario, where Harris's father drove them out to a candlelit scene that the parents already knew about, reminded me uneasily of Christopher Maxwell's proposal to Anna, surrounded by his mother's china ornaments.

Ruth has worked hard to gain independence and I hope that she and Harris can forge a happy relationship independent of both sets of parents, with healthy and appropriate boundaries around their private business as a couple.

[MamaJunebug]

Wow, I really feel for Ruth.

I think Harris's mother was very naive to push the meeting with Ruth's family. I expect she is very worried about what her son is marrying into, and wanted to see for herself, but it seems like a red flag to me that she felt Ruth's parents had a 'right' to meet Harris. From the way Ruth writes the entry, it also seems as though Harris's mother decided for herself that she was going along to meet the family, rather than waiting to see if she was invited.

I am glad that Ruth and Harris has some counselling (and I hope the parents weren't involved in that!) The proposal scenario, where Harris's father drove them out to a candlelit scene that the parents already knew about, reminded me uneasily of Christopher Maxwell's proposal to Anna, surrounded by his mother's china ornaments.

Ruth has worked hard to gain independence and I hope that she and Harris can forge a happy relationship independent of both sets of parents, with healthy and appropriate boundaries around their private business as a couple.

:) I think it was Nathan who had the Precious Moments figurines artfully displayed for the few minutes he and Melanie were trusted together. Can you just imagine Teri & Steve with their ears to the door and their eyes on a stopwatch?

As for Ruth and Harris ... and Harris' mom ... we don't know exactly what ruth's participation was, in Harris's mom's deicsion to tag along. I'm rather glad she did tag along. As a mama-in-law and a prospective mama-in-law, I have been keen to see from whence my children's proposed mate came.

I can imagine the father's 20-minute rant all too well, and wonder what Harris's mom thought if she was in attendance.

As to Ruth's mom being given authority and choosing not to attend the wedding ... that poor woman chose long ago to relinquish her autonomy, and Ruth is wise to put aside any hopes of change, at least as long as Blessing and other children of tender years are in the home.

We Lutherans are asked (some of us refuse) to consider the wedding ceremony as a worship service first, last and always, and a sentimental pageant only incidentally. If Ruth can look at the wedding service in this way, while it still will be difficult for her not to be able to see her mom in the congregation, it will be possible for her to think ahead to a time when she can tell her mom all about it.

Heck, maybe someone will even think to video record it. ;) If Ruth is real (and 99.9% of me thinks she is), then I could not be happier for her. The counseling was a brilliant idea and seems to have been of use. Harris' parents seem more like congenial co-conspirators in the elaborate proposal scheme, and not at all like controlling donkeybutts who "permitted" the two "a few minutes alone together" lest their passions overtake them, bla bla maxwell bla.

And most blessedly, Ruth has other rogue siblings who can understand, as no one else can, what she endured, survived and escaped.

Long life to Ruth and Harris!!!

[Austin]

Wow, I really feel for Ruth.

I think Harris's mother was very naive to push the meeting with Ruth's family. I expect she is very worried about what her son is marrying into, and wanted to see for herself, but it seems like a red flag to me that she felt Ruth's parents had a 'right' to meet Harris. From the way Ruth writes the entry, it also seems as though Harris's mother decided for herself that she was going along to meet the family, rather than waiting to see if she was invited.

I am glad that Ruth and Harris has some counselling (and I hope the parents weren't involved in that!) The proposal scenario, where Harris's father drove them out to a candlelit scene that the parents already knew about, reminded me uneasily of Christopher Maxwell's proposal to Anna, surrounded by his mother's china ornaments.

Ruth has worked hard to gain independence and I hope that she and Harris can forge a happy relationship independent of both sets of parents, with healthy and appropriate boundaries around their private business as a couple.

The stuff with Harris' mom dinged my radar, too, as I don't feel that it was her place to recommend or try to influence Ruth in any way in that arena (one way or another). I wonder why she felt the need to do so. Perhaps she didn't realize how toxic Ruth's parents are, but she should have trusted Ruth on the issue. Perhaps she is just naive and it did not occur to her that people could be so toxic. Either way, boundaries need to be drawn with both sets of parents.

[raineymott]

I thought it sounded kind of weird with Harris' mom too...but then again, my inlaws wanted to visit my parents before my then-fiance came to visit me to let them know I was going to get visited. My husband said it would make them feel better, but I was really mad, because it was none of their business and definitely none of my dad's (this was after he cut me off!).

I hope that it wasn't a case of a nosy MIL...and you're right Austin, either way, boundaries need to be drawn with both sets of parents. Maybe Ruth didn't realize there could be something wrong with that...and maybe she was glad. Who knows.

[Deleted03]

The stuff with Harris' mom dinged my radar, too, as I don't feel that it was her place to recommend or try to influence Ruth in any way in that arena (one way or another). I wonder why she felt the need to do so. Perhaps she didn't realize how toxic Ruth's parents are, but she should have trusted Ruth on the issue. Perhaps she is just naive and it did not occur to her that people could be so toxic. Either way, boundaries need to be drawn with both sets of parents.

Maybe the mother in law just did not trust Ruth's account and was one of those person who just don't believe parents can be that bad (and want to make sure their son aren't going to leave them too on a "whim").

[Guest Anonymous]

I think it was the careful way that Ruth seems to have written the entry that struck me. She seems to be a very forthright person, so for her to write that the mom 'decided' to attend seemed to suggest that Ruth did not exactly invite her. The part about the mom having a 'valid point' also pinged my radar - it sounds like Ruth had to justify her decisions and make a case to Harris's mother about issues that one would expect to be private decisions for a couple to make together.

I could completely understand a parent having huge red flags in their own mind, over a son who is marrying into Ruth's family. And Ruth's strength and resilience might feel very threatening to a mother who has had a much quieter life and raised a son in a much closer and interdependant family relationship.

But it sounds as though Harris's parents may be trying to 'parent' Ruth at a stage where she is already a grown adult and, because of her life experience, is probably much more mature than Harris in terms of her independence and ability to think and act for herself.

I kind of wish Ruth was just dating Harris and enjoying the 'interesting times' with her new flatmates. The whole engagement seems to have been too rushed and intense, in the way that often happens when people go through extreme experiences together.

[contrary]

where i grew up, in the south, a future in-law meeting is fairly standard, so that part did not alarm me. however, as annie mentioned above me, it does seem more "carefully" written than ruth's usual entries.

that said, i'm not sure if i'm glad harris' mom went, so that she could see first-hand what ruth is dealing with (and therefore create some empathy and understanding not to push it in the future), or if i think she's being overbearing.

[Guest Anonymous]

that said, i'm not sure if i'm glad harris' mom went, so that she could see first-hand what ruth is dealing with (and therefore create some empathy and understanding not to push it in the future), or if i think she's being overbearing.

Personally, I think both things at the same time. I think she was being overbearing, but I expect she'll have learned valuable lessons too. And not just about Ruth's family. Hearing Ruth say those things to her father was probably very illuminating about how far Ruth has come, if she hadn't seen that before.

[MrsYoungie]

If one of my sons were to become serious about a girl with a history like Ruth's I would still want to meet her parents. One can hear about the crazy, but until you face the crazy and really see it in action? it isn't quite as tangible. Harris's parents will never bother Ruth again about inviting her parents for Christmas, or birthdays or anything like that ever again. They know they are irredeemable.

[Lostie]

I agree that this post seemed more careful than Ruth's generally are, but there could be a number of reasons for that. First of all, she hasn't posted to her blog for quite awhile meaning her usual forthright, informal style may just be in disuse. Also, she could still be kind of shaken from the meeting with her family, plus she also knows her family knows where her blog is and will probably be reading so that may be part of it. Not to mention Harris' parents probably know about the blog and could be reading it as well.

[hoipolloi]

I didn't see any red flags in Ruth's account of her future MIL's actions. As a MIL myself, I wanted to meet the family of my kid's future spouse. As it happens, we don't have a lot in common although there was certainly no hostility or coolness. On the other hand, I feel as though we could email or telephone each other or otherwise communicate adequately, should the need arise.

Her father is a classic patriarse so obviously there's no use expecting him to behave maturely, and sadly the mom has a lifetime of oppression to overcome. Perhaps her siblings will become closer to her as they "age out" of the Gothard BS and see it for the garbage it is.

[Letgo]

Hmmm...I am going to have to support Harris' mom on this one. As a parent of adult children, I do realize that they can date or marry anyone they want with or without my approval. Two of my children have made some, shall we say, unfortunate choices. And they would now agree with that statement. Happily those choices are long gone, but when they dated those people it touched on everyone in the family. And in a marriage, more people are involved than just the engaged couple. In the years to come there will be holidays, other marriages, births, deaths, reunions, etc. While Ruth's family situation is not the norm and she may not see much of her family, what she experienced will still affect her, and Harris. (Hence the counseling.)

Harris' mom has the viewpoint of a mother. For his parents, who most likely have a much better relationship with their children, it is probably very difficult to imagine Ruth's relationship with her parents. They know Ruth, and seem to really like her, and I bet they just thought of how much they would not like it if they had never met their future daughter/son-in-law prior to the marriage. I would certainly want to meet the person my child planned to marry. Ruth did say that Harris' parents agreed that the family relationship was toxic and should occur on her terms and "with enough support to facilitate a good outcome." Perhaps Harris' mom wanted to see the relationship for herself and wanted to help Ruth. Sitting here, it is certainly very hard for me to imagine a father like Ruth's. I did not get the feeling that Harris' mom was butting in where she was totally not wanted. I just thought that she wanted to be supportive of Ruth, and she may feel motherly toward her. Ruth's own mother is not *alllowed* to actually still be her mother. Ruth did not mention Harris' mom again regarding the visit so the mom may not have been overly involved in Ruth's situation here. (I bet the mom was shocked when the father came storming into the brother's house, though.) I think, in the absence of proof, that Harris' mom should be given a break. This has to be a tough situation for Harris' parents. Their son is going to marry a woman from a very dysfunctional family. It would be unparental to NOT have some concerns about that.

Ruth mentioned something that I thought was great-that she can't keep waiting for her mother to act like the mother she wants her to be. Part of Ruth's growth process has to be recognizing the limitations of her parents and accepting that they will. not. change. I have read of so many people who keep hoping their parents will change and start being parents. But it never happens. I am glad Ruth seems to get that.

[SheWoreLemon]

Decided could also be read to mean--Ruth offered Harris' mom the choice to come, and Harris' mom decided to come along.

[Austin]

I am a mother of adult children, too, and I disagree. Yes, I would have concerns. Yes, I would worry. But it's not my place to tell my adult son or [theoretical] fiance how a situation should be handled with regard to a rift with her parents. Would I want to? Of course! But it would not be my place. Would I be curious? Yes, but it would not be about me.

In this situation, Ruth's situation is well-documented by her blog and the couple has undergone therapy. That is more than I would expect as a mother, and I feel Harris' mother should have been satisfied with those explanations and measures.

And yes, it is traditional to "meet the parents", but tradition doesn't trump Ruth's own experience, as she knows her family better than anyone else in this situation.

It remains to be seen how Ruth will process the visit in the long run. Her father said some terrible things to her, which she says her counselor prepared her for, but I know from personal experience that trying to prepare and actually being prepared to hear such vitriol are two very different things. Her mother, as she always has, sided with her father, which again from personal experience, can almost hurt worse. No one but Ruth knows if she was far enough out from her family experiences to confront all that at this time. But regardless, it should have been a completely Ruth-led decision.

[kb2]

Harris's mom may have been a little protective of Harris, and even a little protective of Ruth, and wanted to go meet Ruth's family with Harris and Ruth to protect the both of them from fallout of their engagement announcement. She may have encouraged the meeting because she would feel guilty if Harris married a girl whose family hasn't had the chance to meet him when she has had the opportunity to meet Ruth, but also didn't want anyone to get really hurt, and so went along as a neutralizing force. It seems pretty reasonable, although like others have said, she may have underestimated the dysfunction present.

The "Harris' mom decided she would go along" phrase doesn't strike me as pointing out something unwelcome. The first part of the paragraph talks about Harris's parents together having an opinion, so it could be that they were all planning for someone to accompany Harris into Ruth's family all along, but when it came down to who exactly would go the mom took over. If that makes sense.

The refusal to go to the wedding is pretty heartbreaking. I don't really believe in heaven and hell anymore, but how do these people think this behavior makes them righteous?

[library_youth]

Ruth has posted yet again today, answering some backlogged questions about her summer, her leg, Harris, therapy, etc.

I hope she keeps posting! I'd love to hear more about her wedding plans progress.

[FlorenceHamilton]

Truthfully, it was a little bit overbearing of Harris's mom, but also understanble. I think she was being protective of both of them. I don't think that is represents a glaring problem with the woman. Ultimately, it seems to have worked out for the best. I just don't think it was so far over the line that it represents a big deal.

Of course, in most families, the future in-laws would meet in a social gathering at some point anyway. It is usually just a way to introduce themselves to one another. For Ruth, it was a little bit tougher.

I am glad that Ruth is happy and doing well.

[Austin]

Truthfully, it was a little bit overbearing of Harris's mom, but also understanble. I think she was being protective of both of them. I don't think that is represents a glaring problem with the woman. Ultimately, it seems to have worked out for the best. I just don't think it was so far over the line that it represents a big deal.

I agree. I was originally just responding to someone else who had the same impression as I did when I read what Ruth had written, and I do have strong feelings on in-law interference. I also don't think it represents a glaring problem, but I just hope that Ruth is able to set boundaries that are healthy for her. I can't imagine that the mother's eyes were not opened given everything that occurred.

[margiebargie]

I'm just so pleased for Ruth. I'm rooting for her.

I dont think harris's mom was overbearing - just concerned and curious.

[masagoroll]

Ruth's parents are such nightmares. I don't think you should even have children if you would stop seeing them, supporting them, and being with them if they just decide to disagree with you. Ruth is still living a conservative, decent life, but they're flipping out because she is no longer kowtowing to them or belonging to their cult. I'm so glad that she seems like she is just going "OK, that's your choice, then" and not getting upset about their BS.

[SunnyAndrsn]

I'm just so pleased for Ruth. I'm rooting for her.

I dont think harris's mom was overbearing - just concerned and curious.

I agree. I think she was trying to be supportive of her son and future daughter in law. I don't read anything into the statement that "his mom decided to come along."

Ruth and Harris could have told her no, and I think she would have respected that. Perhaps she's starting to feel motherly toward Ruth.